Hilco...

Iano_128

Does anyone have any idea on why Hilco have bought HMV & XtraVision? I know they are huge name companies, but the reasons they went out of business still stand, and I don't see how any company could try to change them?

Most music and films are either bought or illegally downloaded on line nowadays, so I really can't see a way to battle that and encourage people to start using XtraVision and HMV again to a point where its profitable.

Does anyone have any opinions on what the companies plans for these 2 businesses could be?

As it may be obvious to see, I'm not very well up on business management etc, this is just a topic that interests me.

shoutman

Hi Iano,

I echo your sentiments, I don't really see what their play is here. Fairly obvious to see that the Bricks and Mortar music/DVD/Game rental market is dead and it really doesn't look like coming back.

If i'm not mistaken all of the xtravision stores are rented premises too so it's not like they are just on the hunt for a good network of reasonably well placed premises, but who knows.

Iano_128

You're right about all the Xtravision stores being rented because I saw an article in the paper that said most if not all the landlords have agreed to come to an arrangement with them to stay on, they've also said they're reinstating 4 HMV stores so I don't know if they have something new up their sleeve that they feel will bring punters to stores but as you said who knows!

Bandara

The illegal downloading aspect is being shut down slowly but surely

Yes it will never be stopped but its going to be next to impossible for your average person to do pretty soon.

The Pirate Bay site being blocked by the internet providers here is the tip fo the iceberg, ISOTorrent etc etc etc are all listed to be next.

Your not going to be able to access these sites at all.

I'd imagine they will go into the electronics aspect more, sell complementing products and use the very strong locations of HMV & XtraV to take market share.

shoutman

Hammertime, I think that even if overnight illegal downloading completely ceased, Xtravision would still not be able to survive.

We live in a society of instant gratification, and having to take time out our busy lives to "browse" new releases in a bricks and mortar is something that people increasingly are not willing to do.

For example look at Netflix Versus a traditional video retailer:
With Netflix you get a wide selection of movies and tv shows, peer reviews, no late return fees and instant access. All for less than the price of renting two films.
The only upside movie rental shops would be it would have more new releases, but with Sky Anytime and Netflix pushing for newer and better cotent I think it's only a matter of time before any advantage rental shops have is neutralised.

As for moving into electronics, I think this is also an area where bricks and mortar shops are struggling. I believe where someone goes to purchase a product is highly price sensitive and with the advent of price checkers online (and invariably the cheapest price coming from an online operation with lower operating costs) I just don't see how a move into electronics would change the fortunes of Xtravision (Peats are still struggling and they're experts in the area.)

Value Hunter

Very tough road ahead for them, can't see xtravision's business model being financially viable in this day and age. That company had numerous financial problems during the boom and pre netflix/downloads, I cant see any hope for them now in the current environment.

I agree with the sentiments that Hilco will move more towards electronics products with HMV, developing a greater gaming sector in the stores may be another direction with GAME now being taken out of the market place. Still a very tough position to be in which I dont envy them trying to overcome, wish them the best of luck and I hope its a success

dozy doctor

I was pretty sure that i read somewhere that the majority of the Xtra Vision stores were operating on a profit and only a minor few were pulling the rest of them down so to speak, so from my understanding, they will shut the non profit stores, and continue to trade successfully with the profitable stores... And no doubt they will end up going down the route of http://www.lovefilm.com/ and http://www.screenclick.com/ and try to dominate the Irish market for downloading movies

MagicMarker

Hammertime wrote: »

The illegal downloading aspect is being shut down slowly but surely

Yes it will never be stopped but its going to be next to impossible for your average person to do pretty soon.

It really won't be.

Value Hunter

dozy doctor wrote: »

I was pretty sure that i read somewhere that the majority of the Xtra Vision stores were operating on a profit and only a minor few were pulling the rest of them down so to speak, so from my understanding, they will shut the non profit stores, and continue to trade successfully with the profitable stores... And no doubt they will end up going down the route of http://www.lovefilm.com/ and http://www.screenclick.com/ and try to dominate the Irish market for downloading movies

Never thought of that route myself its actually a great idea.

Does anyone know if there going to be operating Xtravision and HMV as individual stores or if there going to try to merge the two into one new company?

sandin

They turned hmv canada around fairly well and quite quickly. Making very good profits too.

Also top guy is irish.

Iano_128

Good thoughts from everyone here I tend to agree more in the sense that Xtravision is beyond saving, you can block all the sites in the world but that won't stop the people operating those sites changing the URL's etc. If you could block something illegal on the internet we wouldn't have a child pornography problem, if they can't stop something like that, I don't think they'll ever stop illegal downloading.

I did hear that HMV Canada was turned around by them very quickly, and I do think if it's a toss up between Xtravision and HMV being a store I'd go to, it'd be HMV as it has a lot more to offer than your average Xtravision, but as people here have said, Hilco will never be able to better the convenience of the internet, for example if I wanted to rent a film in Xtravision I'm paying maybe 3-4 euro for 1 night, if I go on to amazon.co.uk I can own that same film (maybe second hand but that doesn't matter) for a euro or 2.

I haven't rented a film from Xtravision in a long long time, and don't personally know anyone who has, and with the likes of Amazon, Ebay, LoveFilm and Netflix out there, who can blame people for not going out to pay more for a service you can get while sitting at home.

Hammertime

Hammertime wrote: »

The illegal downloading aspect is being shut down slowly but surely

Yes it will never be stopped but its going to be next to impossible for your average person to do pretty soon.

The Pirate Bay site being blocked by the internet providers here is the tip fo the iceberg, ISOTorrent etc etc etc are all listed to be next.

Your not going to be able to access these sites at all.

I'd imagine they will go into the electronics aspect more, sell complementing products and use the very strong locations of HMV & XtraV to take market share.

Downloading is alive and well worldwide. Pirate bay is only blocked by eircom in Ireland unless that changed recently, and there's only a handful of countries that have agreed to help, and where the country hasn't done it they then approach the ISP's and only some of them agree to help. Even in the US its easy to use torrents, if you can't get onto the piratebay for whatever reason, there is any number of other sites out there all repeating the same links.

Iano_128

It's also very easy to get on to the piratebay as an Eircom customer. There's ways around everything!

Bandara

Deleted User wrote: »

Downloading is alive and well worldwide. Pirate bay is only blocked by eircom in Ireland unless that changed recently, and there's only a handful of countries that have agreed to help, and where the country hasn't done it they then approach the ISP's and only some of them agree to help. Even in the US its easy to use torrents, if you can't get onto the piratebay for whatever reason, there is any number of other sites out there all repeating the same links.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/music-firms-secure-orders-blocking-access-to-pirate-bay-1.1425810

And there is a list of approximately 420+ similar sites on the next case thats being brought in front of the courts in September I believe, the Pirate Bay was the test case and now that is through all the other sites will be blocked as well.

Issues around people circumventing it via Proxy sites is to be dealt with also.

Iano_128

I don't think it will matter. Like I said, Piratebay has been blocked by Eircom for some time now, and it's still very very easy to get on to. The government will find a way to stop one way and the people running these sites will find another way around it.

Bandara

Iano_128 wrote: »

I don't think it will matter. Like I said, Piratebay has been blocked by Eircom for some time now, and it's still very very easy to get on to. The government will find a way to stop one way and the people running these sites will find another way around it.

I agree with you Iano, there is wil be ways around etc, but 90% of the population wont have the ability to do it. Thats all they are striving for, no one thinks torrenting is going away, but its definitely going not going to be anything like a straight forward as it is now.

Id also expect a few people to be heavily prosecuted for breaching the rules, a few strong examples in the media and a lot of joe soaps with back away.

Iano_128

I agree with you 100% about the heavy prosecutions! I think if people were to see a few people here and there from different ISP's being heavily prosecuted it would turn 90% of the people off doing it regardless of how easy it is to do. The problem we have is that you never hear of people being prosecuted for this kind of stuff, so where's the deterrant?

wmpdd3

I can't remember the last time I rented a movie either but look at the space Tesco gives to media in their stores. Maybe sales are the way to go.
Add up the sq footage of the combined media space in your local super markets and compare that to you local xtra vision stores.
Surely its the agreements with the distributers that will decide if there is b&m business left in media.

The Apprentice

Hammertime wrote: »

The illegal downloading aspect is being shut down slowly but surely

Yes it will never be stopped but its going to be next to impossible for your average person to do pretty soon.

The Pirate Bay site being blocked by the internet providers here is the tip fo the iceberg, ISOTorrent etc etc etc are all listed to be next.

Your not going to be able to access these sites at all.

I'd imagine they will go into the electronics aspect more, sell complementing products and use the very strong locations of HMV & XtraV to take market share.

I would have to disagree on this front with you hammertime, i have owned and run (edit) and any new method that was proposed was easily circumvented 15 minutes later by some ingenious nerds.. It wouldnt take too long to code a windows app that was very user friendly.. going off topic now

The hmv xtravision is probably a dying business model for very clear reasons -

- Price
- Conveniance

The reasons people pirate movies or tunes in my case is godamn price.. I only just the other day forked out €14 for a medal of honour game and completed it in only 5 hours... I felt ****ing ill, i really did.. I was absolutely disgusted by this that some poor **** only months earlier spent 50 notes on this game that was clearly under polished..
The fact i paid 14 notes was grand, the fact that it was showcased at 50 notes was hideous and i know people or kids got ripped off on this fact.
So in my case often with albums half the songs are ****e, have the songs are fab, with the introduction of spotify and itunes there is no real doubt who the loser is in this situation.

There will always be firm believers in having a physical product, im the same way for books, but not audio or games any more and having hmv or extravision as a single entity to cater for these customers will undoubtedely make a profit.
Having units in high footfall areas is key here - but i do think they need added value for consumers like me who dont want to get off the bloody couch.

Skygo is immensly popular in my area, for some reason i use it on my laptop. Its so good it makes me moist at times. Its selection is poor. I have suggested well over 3 years ago on this very forum xtravision need to be operating in this streaming market in video and perhaps audio. The video is cleary profitable but the audio may not be.. run the ****ing numbers people... its not rocket science.
If you can play all the music you want on alternatives like spotify for 2.99 a month how do you expect to sell albums week in week out ?? Again likely only on specials or to the hardcore fans who want physical copies of albums are you market. The traditonal market is dying or dead.. move with the times.

Im not saying anything new here, the directors of xtravsion, HMV should have been fired years ago its not the first time this has been suggested.
- Less stores, high pop areas...
- Higher Selection of pick up items in store, Televisions, Ipads, PHones
- Instore movie streaming service, it gets people into the store the idea being people still like the idea of going to a store to get a movie.. stream it with a lovefilm touchscreen, more opportunity to upsell food, drink


I have €60 paid off on a bloody blueray player for the last 3-4 years in xtravision and for the life of me cant fathom why i should go in and pay the rest off on it. Skygo is just so conveniant and cheap ..

My rant, take it or leave it :P

highlandseoghan

A lot of xtra vision stores have been turning a good profit its a small minority of the shops that were soaking up all the cash and ended up getting the whole business into huge trouble.

Everyone here is talking about downloads etc... In ireland it is still only in big populated young areas with excellent internet connections that downloading goes on. There are huge parts of the country that do very little downloading and these are the areas that have excellent sales in xtra vision stores.

I believe both xtra vision and hmv can be reopened and turned into a very profitable business. The business model does need work but it is possible to rebuild the business.

Illegal downloading will always be available once it is stopped, someone will find another way of getting around it. However I do think that if ppl are found illegal downloading and are given huge penaltys/ fines this will start to stop a lot of ppl doing it.

The Apprentice

Ye might be a point noting that in Ireland a person can nuke a baby in a microwave and get under 2 years but jail time for Piracy although rare is between 5-7..

I think it would be fruitless to ram the jails full when it isnt a thorough solution to the overall "Problem" of piracy. Clearly the spotify example of music is working so there is legitimate evidence to suggest than an alternative "Cheaper" solution to music or movies is out there but there are little moves by the companies to try it !!

I do accept your point to a certain extent but i dont care if you fine me 1 billion euro,s ... if i cant afford to purchase, i download.. simples..

wmpdd3

I think the point is being missed the supermarkets are still making money where HMV couldn't. They are not paying high st rent and they only sell the chart stuff and bargains. When the supermarkets move to online only then you know the business is dead.

Axwell

The illegal downloading is only one side of it, legal downloading is killing these stores just as much. With the likes of spotify most people have access to whatever music they want online, they listen to them on ipods and iphones etc, the majority dont buy cds anymore and there is a huge focus on the social aspects of music now with Soundwave coming along last week. The same goes for films and box sets, with netflix and the various iplayers there is little need to go buy/rent a film.

Digital is the way forward and the only difference is going to be whether people download legally or illegally, I dont personally see how HMV and Xtravision can survive no matter who runs them. With video games the only reason gamestop manages to survive is the money they make off trade ins, had the Xbox One not done a 180 on their drm policy Gamestop would have been in major trouble the far side of Christmas.

Its up to the games companies to start to be series about digital downloads and copy the model set by the likes of Steam. There are huge sales there all the time and you pick up great weekly offers on games. Xbox and Sony charge people the same for the physical copy of a game as they do the digital download off their servers which is a joke. If they drop the price based on the money saved on print and packaging and everything else then it makes it more appealing to those with sufficient broadband. The fact Irelands broadband as a whole is so poor is for another day but really I cant see the bricks and mortar stores being there much longer.

Value Hunter

Not to impressed by this article,

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/theres-life-in-the-old-dog-yet-with-hmv-digital-boss-focused-on-record-collectors-29779216.html


Still basing their business model around CD sales, can't see them surviving long term