Landlord wants to change electricity supplier

PhilMcGee

djimi wrote: »

I would be very interested to see how any of that would hold up should a tenant actually challenge you on it.

Have you any links to back up any of the claims you make as to the legality of any of that?

I dont go looking for links from the insurance company when I get my car insured. I just trust them that when they insure me and send me out the cert and take payment that they know what they are doing. Thats enough for me to do business with them.

Why would I have any links. Im not doing it. Im only relaying what the contact in the service provider told me. I will just assume that he is an expert on his business. Funny that usually the people asking for links to back up something have even less to back up what they are trying to prove.

whiteandlight

I would never move into a property with prepay electricity and I would be pretty sure a lot of professionals would have a similar view. It is expensive and would give me a very dim view of a landlord who enforce it on tenants

keith16

PhilMcGee wrote: »

And I dont pay my tax and you're going to report me and i'm racist and Im a money grabbing cnt.

Really? Wow, get it all out why don't you?

PhilMcGee wrote: »

I've heard it all before. Usually by some dumb idiot after they have been refused RA in an apartment even after they read in the ad that there was no RA accepted, but thought it was just in the ad for the laugh.

This says more about you than anyone else tbh.

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Look at you. Commenting on apartments and people you have never seen and dont even know, and likely never will know, like you are making some kind of genius inspired statement. Think about what that tells us all about how intelligent you are. Or maybe you are just psychic. That must be it.

No psychic-ness or intelligence required. Just common sense really.

Regardless, I don't think anyone is in any doubt as to whose level of intelligence is being exposed here.

PhilMcGee

Musicmental85 wrote: »

I would never move into a property with prepay electricity and I would be pretty sure a lot of professionals would have a similar view. It is expensive and would give me a very dim view of a landlord who enforce it on tenants

Fortunately there is a healthy market and no shortage of the next tenant. But if the market wasnt healthy, as has happened in the past then landlords might have to worry about losing potential tenants. But for now, I think you might find most landlords will be going pre-paid and you really will only be limiting your options instead of theirs. If there is a good period between now and the next downturn then i think all providers will have pre-pay and it will be standard in rentals.

L1011

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Im only relaying what the contact in the service provider told me. I will just assume that he is an expert on his business.

You're assuming a salesman in an energy firm knows what he's talking about?

Excuse me while I collapse laughing on the floor.

PhilMcGee

keith16 wrote: »

Regardless, I don't think anyone is in any doubt as to whose level of intelligence is being exposed here.

Except you. But sure you cant help it I'm sure.

djimi

PhilMcGee wrote: »

I dont go looking for links from the insurance company when I get my car insured. I just trust them that when they insure me and send me out the cert and take payment that they know what they are doing. Thats enough for me to do business with them.

Why would I have any links. Im not doing it. Im only relaying what the contact in the service provider told me. I will just assume that he is an expert on his business. Funny that usually the people asking for links to back up something have even less to back up what they are trying to prove.

Ignorance is not a defence when someone takes a case against you. You have stated several things as fact:

- that you as landlord are free to impose a provider on a tenant against their wishes,

- that you can write a clause into a lease to prevent a tenant from choosing their own utility provider

and Im interested to know if you can back either of those up with anything more concrete than the word of a salesman belonging to an electric company? If I were your tenant and you tried to force prepaid electricty upon my against my wishes then I would be taking a case against you. The PRTB wont give a toss who told you what; they only deal in legal fact, so can you show me anything that backs up what you are claiming to be true?

PhilMcGee

MYOB wrote: »

You're assuming a salesman in an energy firm knows what he's talking about?

Excuse me while I collapse laughing on the floor.

You are just assuming someone you havent spoken to is lying. You have no basis for that. As I have no basis for assuming he is telling the truth.

But as in all my dealings with any company, Im assuming someone in a company tasked with switching and helping customers knows more about what he is talking about than I or the internet in general do.
There is always a point with every company where you have to trust that they are experts. At least more experts than you are.

You can argue with them if you want and ask them for proof, but i dont really want to waste my time digging into mountains of paper and will trust them.
I also take a solicitors word for it when I ask for advice and help too. I dont go assuming they are lying.

L1011

PhilMcGee wrote: »

You are just assuming someone you havent spoken to is lying. You have no basis for that. As I have no basis for assuming he is telling the truth.

But as in all my dealings with any company, Im assuming someone in a company tasked with switching and helping customers knows more about what he is talking about than I or the internet in general do.
There is always a point with every company where you have to trust that they are experts. At least more experts than you are.

You can argue with them if you want and ask them for proof, but i dont really want to waste my time digging into mountains of paper and will trust them.
I also take a solicitors word for it when I ask for advice and help too. I dont go assuming they are lying.

Something tells me you may have to contact your solicitor fairly shortly. "I trusted the man on the phone" does not absolve you of any legal responsibility.

Energy firm sales staff are generally paid commission-only or as damn near to it as they can legally get, and receive minimal training.

djimi

PhilMcGee wrote: »

But as in all my dealings with any company, Im assuming someone in a company tasked with switching and helping customers knows more about what he is talking about than I or the internet in general do.
There is always a point with every company where you have to trust that they are experts. At least more experts than you are.

If you truely believe this then you are extremely foolish. Salesmen will tell you absolutely anything to secure a sale. I had a bloke from a well known mobile company sit at a desk in front of me and tell me several barefaced lies in an effort to get me to sign up to his service, and when I called him up on it he just kept digging futher and futher.

drumswan

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Fortunately there is a healthy market and no shortage of the next tenant. But if the market wasnt healthy, as has happened in the past then landlords might have to worry about losing potential tenants. But for now, I think you might find most landlords will be going pre-paid and you really will only be limiting your options instead of theirs.

As a professional, renting by choice at the high end of the market, with a list of rent references as long as your arm, I think Id be happy to 'limit my choice' to those places which 'allow' me to chose my own service providers, thanks all the same.

Youd be better off targeting students, newly arrived immigrants and other people who dont understand the rental market here.

PhilMcGee

djimi wrote: »

Ignorance is not a defence when someone takes a case against you. You have stated several things as fact:

- that you as landlord are free to impose a provider on a tenant against their wishes,

- that you can write a clause into a lease to prevent a tenant from choosing their own utility provider

and Im interested to know if you can back either of those up with anything more concrete than the word of a salesman belonging to an electric company? If I were your tenant and you tried to force prepaid electricty upon my against my wishes then I would be taking a case against you. The PRTB wont give a toss who told you what; they only deal in legal fact, so can you show me anything that backs up what you are claiming to be true?

Nobody has taken any case. And nobody is taking any case. So your imaginary case is just that .. imaginary.

I dont need to prove anything to you. And I dont feel like wasting my time finding out stuff for you that you want to know and not me. Do your own research.
Its not an arguement. Im not asking you to believe anyting I say. Im telling you what I know, which may be wrong or not, but i am happy that its correct. You can choose to believe me or not, or if you feel like wasting your own time go off and dig around and see if you can come up with laws,or whatever is behind it. I am happy with what I have been told by a service provider and by my agent. I am also happy with anything my solicitor tells me I can write into a lease.

So if you find out anything that i;ve said is untrue please post it back as it would be useful info for me.

keith16

PhilMcGee wrote: »

You are just assuming someone you havent spoken to is lying. You have no basis for that. As I have no basis for assuming he is telling the truth.

But as in all my dealings with any company, Im assuming someone in a company tasked with switching and helping customers knows more about what he is talking about than I or the internet in general do.
There is always a point with every company where you have to trust that they are experts. At least more experts than you are.

You can argue with them if you want and ask them for proof, but i dont really want to waste my time digging into mountains of paper and will trust them.
I also take a solicitors word for it when I ask for advice and help too. I dont go assuming they are lying.

This is absolutely laughable. Blame the bankers and government for the way the country is all you like, but this type of absolutely staggering, willful ignorance is also major contributing factor.

PhilMcGee

drumswan wrote: »

As a professional, renting by choice at the high end of the market, with a list of rent references as long as your arm, I think Id be happy to 'limit my choice' to those places which 'allow' me to chose my own service providers, thanks all the same.

Youd be better off targeting students, newly arrived immigrants and other people who dont understand the rental market here.

the next good tenant is behind you.
And you would be entitled to move on if anything didnt suit you. And the loss of you as a tenant doesnt hurt the landlord as much as you would like to think. You are not the only one looking at a property, just as that property is not the only property you are looking at.
So everyone is happy with your decision to move on.

PhilMcGee

keith16 wrote: »

This is absolutely laughable. Blame the bankers and government for the way the country is all you like, but this type of absolutely staggering, willful ignorance is also major contributing factor.

Do you mind me asking. How old are you?

keith16

PhilMcGee wrote: »

So if you find out anything that i;ve said is untrue please post it back as it would be useful info for me.

As per your own advice:

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Do your own research.

PhilMcGee wrote: »

the next good tenant is behind you.

If there are so many "good tenants", then why do you need to do this? Or why do you have so many problem tenants and issues with utilities that "make you cry"?

gordongekko

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Just search boards and askaboutmoney and you will find so many issues with landlords and electricity that you will cry.

I have changed names over 100 times without issue. You stated that 90% of the time its fine and that you have had loads of problems. Law of averages would suggest im in for a horrible run so I would like to know your problems so I can try and avoid them.

djimi

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Nobody has taken any case. And nobody is taking any case. So your imaginary case is just that .. imaginary.

I dont need to prove anything to you. And I dont feel like wasting my time finding out stuff for you that you want to know and not me. Do your own research.
Its not an arguement. Im not asking you to believe anyting I say. Im telling you what I know, which may be wrong or not, but i am happy that its correct. You can choose to believe me or not, or if you feel like wasting your own time go off and dig around and see if you can come up with laws,or whatever is behind it. I am happy with what I have been told by a service provider and by my agent. I am also happy with anything my solicitor tells me I can write into a lease.

So if you find out anything that i;ve said is untrue please post it back as it would be useful info for me.

If you are going to come on here and state something as fact, then you have to be prepared to back up those statements. "Some salesman in the electric company told me" really doesnt cut it Im afraid.

Personally I dont really care either way; I asked for the links out of interest because I dont believe what you have been told is correct. On your head be it if you cross the wrong tenant and end up having to actually answer for your actions and beliefs. Im of the opinion that in business you never act without knowing, without question, where you stand on the matter, but each to their own I guess.

Just to be clear, Im not actually saying that you are wrong, because I dont know the situation myself (hence me asking for links to show some substanace to what you have claimed). If you are correct in what you say then more power to you, but I would want to hear more than the word of a utility salesman and a rental agent before I would believe it.

drumswan

PhilMcGee wrote: »

the next good tenant is behind you.
And you would be entitled to move on if anything didnt suit you. And the loss of you as a tenant doesnt hurt the landlord as much as you would like to think. You are not the only one looking at a property, just as that property is not the only property you are looking at.
So everyone is happy with your decision to move on.

Im lucky enough that both my current and previous landlord in Ireland have been the height of professionalism and nonsense like this would never arise. My other tenancies have been abroad where this would never arise.

If Id read a clause in the lease limiting my choice of service providers Id have run a mile like I did with half a dozen other gombeen gob****es I spoke with before securing my current rental.

I pay a landlord well into five figures a year for a professional service, theres simply no way I'd tolerate a landlord with the level of professionalism which allows some spotty, commission paid, untrained oik in a call centre direct how he runs his business. Frankly Id be embarrassed if I were you.

PhilMcGee

This thread is turning into a bit of a landlord against tenant thing.
There are imaginary cases and law suits and the most important high end tenant tenants causing landlords to go out of business because they are worried about a few euro all of a sudden.

I should have know they all end up like this.
You can see where its going.

Everyone is going to sue their landlord and everyone is going to not rent his apartment so he can go out of business.

Its getting like the Im 6ft 4 and built so nobody will ever look sideways at me because im so tough threads. But really we all know nobody has been sued. Nobody has been beaten up. Nobody has a property sitting empty because the electricity meter is prepaid. Its all just internet bluster. So I will hand the thread back to you now. I just tried to tell you what ive been told. take it or leave it. bye bye.

keith16

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Do you mind me asking. How old are you?

WTF has that got to do with the price of cabbage??

Nothing to do with landlords against tenants. You've been had, think you can enforce something unenforceable. You are being called out on it and can't defend other than saying "yer man told me so it's grand".

silentrust

PhilMcGee wrote: »

This thread is turning into a bit of a landlord against tenant thing.
There are imaginary cases and law suits and the most important high end tenant tenants causing landlords to go out of business because they are worried about a few euro all of a sudden.

I should have know they all end up like this.
You can see where its going.

Everyone is going to sue their landlord and everyone is going to not rent his apartment so he can go out of business.

Its getting like the Im 6ft 4 and built so nobody will ever look sideways at me because im so tough threads. But really we all know nobody has been sued. Nobody has been beaten up. Nobody has a property sitting empty because the electricity meter is prepaid. Its all just internet bluster. So I will hand the thread back to you now. I just tried to tell you what ive been told. take it or leave it. bye bye.

Frankly Phil I wish I had a landlord like you, my own took no interest whatsoever in the electricity supply and I had to set all this up myself as well as change the names over, he never even mentioned it. The only time he's ever contacted us of his own accord was about an unpaid bill for garbage which he'd received and we needed to settle.

I agree your strategy is a good one, just wait until a tenancy ends and then if people don't want a prepay meter in their house, they don't have to move in. I wouldn't want one myself as paying a fixed amount by direct debit helps manage my finances better but if as a landlord you set this up and included it in the rent for instance, I'd bite your hand off! :-)

silentrust

I am not a landlord however as a tenant in a shared house, I have been subletting the rooms a number of times.

Electricity has been a continual thorn in my side as even after choosing to switch supplier and negotiate a fixed amount to pay per month with Airtricity (this was after receiving a bill for over €735 for a 2 month period Nov-Dec last year), I still had problems paying the bills.

Originally I sublet the rooms for the amount the landlord asked with the understanding that we would divide all bills equally but every month the electricity bill came round it was always a case of "I'll get that to you when I'm paid," or "Yeah I'll go to the cash machine in the morning," or "I don't agree I should pay as much as X because I went on holiday", it was an absolute nightmare chasing after people!

So now the new policy I have is that people pay a fixed amount which includes all bills. I am advertising two rooms at the moment, if people don't like it they are free to go elsewhere but actually they told me they prefer the peace of mind that comes from paying an all inclusive price - so do I!

Marcusm

Good luck with this; if the electricity account is in the tenant's name, neither you nor the proposed electricity supplier has the authority to interfere with the contract (whether for defined time or evergreen) which exists between the tenant and the existing electricity supplier. For the proposed supplier to do so or knowingly attempt to do so would be a serious issue from the perspective of the Commission for Energy Regulation (you should refer to their various consumer publications). The issue for you would be a civil one which you could shrug off; a serious breach of consumer rights by the proposed supplier which if rolled out generally would likely lead to their exclusion from the regulated insurance market.

(By the way, I'm using electricity supplier as they use it - in fact the electricity is supplied by the same old ESB, it's only the billing, marketing and other ****e which is done by the so called suppliers. Ireland has introduced the same competition model as the UK which is completely unjustified and simply duplicates processes.)

drumswan

silentrust wrote: »

Frankly Phil I wish I had a landlord like you, my own took no interest whatsoever in the electricity supply and I had to set all this up myself as well as change the names over, he never even mentioned it.

Are you serious? Who do you think was going to do it? It didnt occur to you that you might need electricity?

The only time he's ever contacted us of his own accord was about an unpaid bill for garbage which he'd received and we needed to settle.

This is perfectly normal. I never want to hear from my landlord, ever.

silentrust

drumswan wrote: »

Are you serious? Who do you think was going to do it? It didnt occur to you that you might need electricity?


This is perfectly normal. I never want to hear from my landlord, ever.

Hi Drumswan,

To answer your question, in the past when I rented property in the UK, the Landlord told me who the current supplier was and took the liberty of contacting them to say the tenant was no longer there - I assumed however naively that the same would be true when I came here.

As for the lack of contact from the Landlord I should explain that we've had to contact him about various issues now and then by e-mail and he is extremely slow to respond.

The last time the heating broke down in the middle of winter for instance we had to threaten to withhold rent money in order to get it repaired as we'd tried contacting him 3 times. Of course technically speaking we weren't entitled to do that but under the circumstances we didn't think he'd push his luck!

the_syco

PhilMcGee wrote: »

But im going to take the companies word for it rather than the internets.

Wrong. You're going to trust a salesperson who'll get a hefty commission for signing you up, and who won't care about you once you've signed the dotted line. Look on boards and askaboutmoney about how salespeople lie to get the sale.

I look forward to your post in a couple of months about how the salesperson screwed you over.

silentrust wrote: »

Originally I sublet the rooms for the amount the landlord asked with the understanding that we would divide all bills equally but every month the electricity bill came round it was always a case of "I'll get that to you when I'm paid," or "Yeah I'll go to the cash machine in the morning," or "I don't agree I should pay as much as X because I went on holiday", it was an absolute nightmare chasing after people!

IIRC, as you are subletting the rooms, you are de facto an owner-occupier landlord, and thus can kick them out if they don't pay their bills/rent, and keep the sum that they owe for electricity from their deposit.

silentrust

the_syco wrote: »

IIRC, as you are subletting the rooms, you are de facto an owner-occupier landlord, and thus can kick them out if they don't pay their bills/rent, and keep the sum that they owe for electricity from their deposit.

Correct.

ShaShaBear

I would like to see my landlord muscle his way into my house to install an unsightly box onto my wall without my permission :rolleyes:

silentrust

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I would like to see my landlord muscle his way into my house to install an unsightly box onto my wall without my permission :rolleyes:

He's within his rights to modify his own property.