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Pre-pay Electricity Meters - A Warning for Landlords

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  • 20-06-2013 3:59pm
    #1
    Avns1s
    Registered Users Posts: 3,422 ✭✭✭


    Just a word of warning to landlords about what can happen when a tenant installs a prepay meter.

    My story is that a tenant has installed one of these meters without permission, with Airtricity.

    Now the tenant has legged it and left me with the issue of the meter (among other things) to sort out! I want to revert to ESB but despite spending almost all of today on the phone to Airtricity, and supplying a copy on request of the tenancy agreement, they now come back looking for a Solicitors letter confirming ownership. It seems as though they are just doing everything possible to get out of transferring the supply. The tenant owes them money, (and us as well!!)but they now tell me that the problem is the landlords and to take it up with the tenant.

    As an aside, I have always found Airtricity an absolute JOKE to deal with in terms of any semblance of Customer service. Hence the desire to move to ESB, even if they are a bit dearer.

    Has anyone any advice, for example, have I a case against Airtricity for entering my property and installing this meter without permission??? If I thought I had a case at all, I'd be more than happy to take it.

    Looking forward to any comments.


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    #2
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭flutered


    Avns1s wrote: »
    Just a word of warning to landlords about what can happen when a tenant installs a prepay meter.

    My story is that a tenant has installed one of these meters without permission, with Airtricity.

    Now the tenant has legged it and left me with the issue of the meter (among other things) to sort out! I want to revert to ESB but despite spending almost all of today on the phone to Airtricity, and supplying a copy on request of the tenancy agreement, they now come back looking for a Solicitors letter confirming ownership. It seems as though they are just doing everything possible to get out of transferring the supply. The tenant owes them money, (and us as well!!)but they now tell me that the problem is the landlords and to take it up with the tenant.

    As an aside, I have always found Airtricity an absolute JOKE to deal with in terms of any semblance of Customer service. Hence the desire to move to ESB, even if they are a bit dearer.

    Has anyone any advice, for example, have I a case against Airtricity for entering my property and installing this meter without permission??? If I thought I had a case at all, I'd be more than happy to take it.

    Looking forward to any comments.

    can you not afford a soicitor, if that is the case then try the free legal aid people.


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    #3
    Avns1s
    Registered Users Posts: 3,422 ✭✭✭Avns1s


    flutered wrote: »
    can you not afford a soicitor, if that is the case then try the free legal aid people.

    What's your point? I can't see why I should have to engage a solicitor to be released from a debt that is not mine!


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    #4
    jd83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,445 ✭✭✭jd83


    So they need all this proof to change supplier but when it comes to installing equipment in someones house, they will do it no bother without making sure they have the owners permission. Thats terrible, they shouldnt be allowed install meters of any sort without making sure its agreeable with the owner.

    Airtrcity are terrible anyway from their dodgy sales tactics to this sort of crap!


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    #5
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    I thought they had to get a written permission from the landlord before they could put in these meters? I would say that is why they are now looking for a solicitors letter stating that you own the property.

    Sounds like they messed up.


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    #6
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    flutered wrote: »
    can you not afford a soicitor, if that is the case then try the free legal aid people.

    Why throw money away on a solicitor?
    As far as i'm concerned they have no contract with you and you owe them nothing - let airtricity chase the tennant, their agreement is with him. As for proof of ownership that should be easy enough to supply without the expense of a solicitor. A copy of the deeds perhaps, or just a letter from the mortgage company should do the trick.


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    #7
    Avns1s
    Registered Users Posts: 3,422 ✭✭✭Avns1s


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    I thought they had to get a written permission from the landlord before they could put in these meters? I would say that is why they are now looking for a solicitors letter stating that you own the property.

    Sounds like they messed up.

    We have furnished them with a copy of the lease. Surely this should be enough to prove that their client was a tenant.


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    #8
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Avns1s wrote: »
    We have furnished them with a copy of the lease. Surely this should be enough to prove that their client was a tenant.

    I wouldn't think so. They probably have a document signed by the tenant saying they owned the property. Not sure how the tenant can owe them money with a pay as you go meter anyway. They now need you to prove their signed document is false. I'd go to the ombudsman about this as it, seems they have been negligent but it may also be allowable.

    I don't know if their is a general energy ombudsman or a specific electrical supply one.


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    #9
    Avns1s
    Registered Users Posts: 3,422 ✭✭✭Avns1s


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    I wouldn't think so. They probably have a document signed by the tenant saying they owned the property. Not sure how the tenant can owe them money with a pay as you go meter anyway. They now need you to prove their signed document is false. I'd go to the ombudsman about this as it, seems they have been negligent but it may also be allowable.

    I don't know if their is a general energy ombudsman or a specific electrical supply one.

    Cheers mate. Good point there.

    I don't have the deeds to hand as Solicitor is holding them and there is no mortgage at this stage. Either way, I don't know why we should have the hassle and expense of proving they cocked up! Surely the time to get a Solicitors letter or something else confirming ownership was at the outset. If it couldn't be supplied, (by the tenant) they shouldn't have fitted the meter.

    The thought about owing money on a prepay meter struck me too until I thought about it. Seemingly they must have run up a bill and then agreed to get the prepay meter in. Maybe there is a facility for paying something extra to clear a debt on these or they had a payment plan for the arrears besides.

    Seemingly they will now accept the online property tax registration receipt as evidence that we own the property. We'll see how this one goes.


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    #10
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,807 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Avns1s wrote: »
    Maybe there is a facility for paying something extra to clear a debt on these

    There is on ESB ones anyway.


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    #11
    PhilMcGee
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭PhilMcGee


    Do go to a solicitor. But get the solicitor to send a letter to the company who installed the new meter in your property WITHOUT your permission, asking them to put it right.

    I am in the process of making all of my properties pre-pay for electricity.
    Much easier to manage. But if someone changed any of the meters without my permission I would be livid.


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    #12
    Avns1s
    Registered Users Posts: 3,422 ✭✭✭Avns1s


    PhilMcGee wrote: »
    Do go to a solicitor. But get the solicitor to send a letter to the company who installed the new meter in your property WITHOUT your permission, asking them to put it right.

    I am in the process of making all of my properties pre-pay for electricity.
    Much easier to manage. But if someone changed any of the meters without my permission I would be livid.

    Livid doesn't even go close to describing it to be honest.

    OK, they have accepted the Property Tax thing as proof. Now on the phone for 35 minutes so far being passed from Billy to Jack for different things with an average 15minute on hold time for each one. BEWARE OF AIRTRICITY!!!!


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    #13
    PhilMcGee
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭PhilMcGee


    Avns1s wrote: »
    Livid doesn't even go close to describing it to be honest.

    OK, they have accepted the Property Tax thing as proof. Now on the phone for 35 minutes so far being passed from Billy to Jack for different things with an average 15minute on hold time for each one. BEWARE OF AIRTRICITY!!!!

    When you are on the phone to them again tell them you were talking to your solicitor about action against THEM and you will be starting proceedings against them.


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    #14
    lOWCOUNTRY
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭lOWCOUNTRY


    The people you should be talking to are the ESB. Tell them you want to move to them. They will just take over the account and switch you on.
    Airtricity are always doing this and in my view it is a trespass on the property of the landlord.
    I would also complain to the energy regulator.


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    #15
    Hootanany
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    Tell them you are charging them a levy every day that this meter is on your property and decoration fee when it is removed.


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    #16
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Avns1s wrote: »
    The thought about owing money on a prepay meter struck me too until I thought about it. Seemingly they must have run up a bill and then agreed to get the prepay meter in. Maybe there is a facility for paying something extra to clear a debt on these or they had a payment plan for the arrears besides.
    The benefit of having the bill in the tenants name; not your problem.

    Tell Airtricity that you want the device that they illegally installed in your property removed, and to cover the cost of any work done, etc.


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    #17
    Avns1s
    Registered Users Posts: 3,422 ✭✭✭Avns1s


    lOWCOUNTRY wrote: »
    The people you should be talking to are the ESB. Tell them you want to move to them. They will just take over the account and switch you on.
    Airtricity are always doing this and in my view it is a trespass on the property of the landlord.
    I would also complain to the energy regulator.

    I would have agreed but ESB will NOT take over the account or perhaps cannot take over the account until Airtricity release it. Airtricity wont release it as there is a balance on the account.

    There will be a number of complaints issued as a result of this. I just want to get it sorted first.


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    #18
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    How is there a balance on the account if they're using a pre-pay meter? Does the balance relate to prior to installation of the meter (or indeed is it a cost associated with the installation of the meter itself)?


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    #19
    dissed doc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dissed doc


    Sue Airticity for illegally installing on your property. Ignore anything about the account as that is for the tenant, and definitely not you.


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    #20
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Does the balance relate to prior to installation of the meter (or indeed is it a cost associated with the installation of the meter itself)?
    I'm guessing maybe that the tenant was paying off a previous debt and/or the installation cost is a percentage of the top-ups, so after a while the "free" installation gets paid off.


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    #21
    yoloc
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭yoloc


    I would get an eletrician out and remove it from the wall and fcuk it in the bin and get back to esb as quickly as possibkle


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    #22
    wandatowell
    Registered Users Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭wandatowell


    I have always found the ESB or Electric Ireland to be very professional in all my dealings with them.

    Wouldnt dream of jumping ship.


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    #23
    Moonbeam
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,953 Mod ✭✭✭✭Moonbeam


    My tenant got one in and I had to sign a form giving permission. If they were in arrears I think the meters are usually free to get installed.


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    #24
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,524 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    How is there a balance on the account if they're using a pre-pay meter? Does the balance relate to prior to installation of the meter (or indeed is it a cost associated with the installation of the meter itself)?
    Airtricty and other suppliers have been instructed in install prepay meters when clients find themselves having trouble managing their accounts. Each time you top up a portion of the outstanding balance is paid by the top up.

    The only time they will install it is if the customer is in arrears. When they do this its cheaper than prepay the company who chategevan additional 37.5 c per day for having the meter


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    #25
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,524 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    yoloc wrote: »
    I would get an eletrician out and remove it from the wall and fcuk it in the bin and get back to esb as quickly as possibkle

    No electrician will touch a revenue meter.


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    #26
    Avns1s
    Registered Users Posts: 3,422 ✭✭✭Avns1s


    yoloc wrote: »
    I would get an eletrician out and remove it from the wall and fcuk it in the bin and get back to esb as quickly as possibkle

    Believe me I thought of that but I wanted to stay a step back from criminal damage.


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    #27
    Avns1s
    Registered Users Posts: 3,422 ✭✭✭Avns1s


    Moonbeam wrote: »
    My tenant got one in and I had to sign a form giving permission. If they were in arrears I think the meters are usually free to get installed.

    See this is exactly where the problem was in our case. No-one asked us or told us that the meter was going in. It seems Airtricity took the word of the tenants that they were the "owners" and wouldn't take the word of the owners when they wanted it removed hence my idea of just making other landlords aware of the potential for this and the disaster it is.

    I would have been happy to allow it if I had a confirmation that the electricity supplier would remove it and revert to a normal meter on demand.

    The issue here as well is that while I could get the new tenant to take over the meter (would be a poor reflection to ask them, but still!) why should they be asked to be paying extra with each top up to clear a previous tenants debt????


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    #28
    yoloc
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭yoloc


    Avns1s wrote: »
    Believe me I thought of that but I wanted to stay a step back from criminal damage.

    Just say it was the tennts lol


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    #29
    wandatowell
    Registered Users Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭wandatowell


    Avns1s wrote: »
    No-one asked us or told us that the meter was going in. I

    Very brazen of the tennant. Some people eh?


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    #30
    jetfiremuck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭jetfiremuck


    The whole cockup is this.I have a landlords agreement with the Esb. This llows no having the disconnect fee when a tenant leaves and or the property is vacant for a few months. Fine in principle you say....except when the tenant moves to Airtricity and skips owing them money the electricity gets disconnected. Now I have to call esb to get them to reconnect at my expense considering the disconnect was due to tenant which Airtricity claims is between the account holder and them. The whole thing is a racket pure and simple.


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    #31
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    jetfiremuck wrote: »
    The whole cockup is this.I have a landlords agreement with the Esb. This llows no having the disconnect fee when a tenant leaves and or the property is vacant for a few months. Fine in principle you say....except when the tenant moves to Airtricity and skips owing them money the electricity gets disconnected. Now I have to call esb to get them to reconnect at my expense considering the disconnect was due to tenant which Airtricity claims is between the account holder and them. The whole thing is a racket pure and simple.

    Airtricity have separate sets of obligations and rights.

    1. They are perfectly within their rights to chase the tenant for any o/s amounts owed.
    2. They are entitled to have their equipment left in situ without being tampered with.
    3. They have no right to have said equipment installed without the permission of the property owner.
    4. This is an issue they have to resolve with the tenant not with you.
    5. They are liable for any costs, including vacancy of the property, while this is sorted
    6. They are liable for any costs in returning the property and its electrics, to their original state
    7. They are liable for any reasonable costs incurred by you in pursuit of your rights.

    I would seriously suggest you keep good tabs on all your costs (and time) involved in this- and get a solicitors letter into them post haste. You need this sorted. Their issue with the tenant lying to them- is their issue- not yours.


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