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Is it ok to hit your dog?

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    #92
    Supersiderman
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Supersiderman


    Ok sorry, I will look into getting the dog professionally trained. I'm not being sarcastic saying that


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    #93
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    Supersiderman wrote: »
    Ok sorry, I will look into getting the dog professionally trained. I'm not being sarcastic saying that

    Supersiderman, what problems are you having with your dog that you feel you might need professional training?


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    #94
    Dingle_berry
    Registered Users Posts: 885 ✭✭✭Dingle_berry


    Great to see so many owners using and advocating positive rather than negative training methods!

    DBB those links to articles on dog training - could that be put up as a sticky? For pet/animal training.

    It's not just for dogs. Anyone with experience of parots will tell you that any kind of negative training, even raising your voice or making a face, will encourage undesirable behaviour. And if a bird takes a dis like to your training methods you better have chain mail gloves and a suit of armour!
    When I met my partner he had a large elderly GSD with bad hips and a Chihuahua. The only way to get a reaction from the GSD was a neutral or excited tone of voice and a treat. Otherwise he wasn't moving. The chi is a little stubborn bully. My partner is her human - she's very strongly bonded. When I met her she wasn't fully housetrained (she had spots that shed go in and they had to have pads down at all times). Out of frustration she would recieve negative feedback (raised voice, tap on bum NOT from me). I minded her for a weekend and had her housetrained by the end of it by simply letting her out often and drowning her with praise and excitement when she went to the toilet outside. To the point that she used to look to go out just to get the praise! As well as that she has more trust in me, my partner - her human, even says she's bonded a lot to me.


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    #95
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Supersiderman wrote: »
    I never said beat the ****e out of the dog. I meant a tip on the side of the mouth, they would hardly feel it. I have a rottweiler and is loving and gentle but the dog knows not to cross me. Dogs are unpredictable.
    Yes, they can be unpredictable, especially when they're afraid. Like they'd be if they thought someone was going to hit them. You also said that a dog should be afraid of the owner: well, may all the gods help you if you ever get one of those dogs that deals with things it's afraid of by attacking.


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    #96
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    I think on this subject, what would be really useful is a discussion on respect. Respect to me is built on trust, not fear; and trust = he knows I am his leader, trust = my commands are not going to cause fear/pain, trust = he will be fed and exercised daily, trust= new surroundings/dogs/loud noises are not fearful and do not need to be lashed out at, trust= my hands are for feeding and affection, trust= look to me first for a reaction, don't decide off the bat what to do, trust= do not bite me, I will do you no harm, ever.

    I don't think true trust can be achieved through fear or punishment, I think slaps and jerks and kicks are actually less about punishment anyway and more about frustration on the side of the owner. I think it's human nature to get frustrated, just as it's human nature to get defensive when called out on this. But if people could take a step back for a moment and think critically about what training and building trust involves I think there would be less strife in human/dog relationships.
    Behavioural studies are constantly imrpoving and as we learn more it's vital to shed old measures that were hit and miss at the best of times (alpha dominance ought to be dead and buried) and embrace newer methods that allow us to fully engage with our companion animals. It's hard to be right all the time, and most of us are not. But it's folly to dig heels in when better option are available to us.
    Dogs are not people, no, but they are sentient creatures that adore us a species, we owe it to them to develop a trust-filled relationship with our pets, for everyone's good health, both mental and physical.


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    #97
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    Supersiderman wrote: »
    Ok sorry, I will look into getting the dog professionally trained. I'm not being sarcastic saying that

    Fair play Superspiderman, just be really careful who you go with, as there are way too many unqualified trainers and self-titled behaviourists out there. And it'll be both you and your dog getting trained together :-)
    If you'd like help on sourcing someone good, just let us know.
    There is also a seminar coming up in August in Dublin on the issue of dominance, with Prof. Peter Neville. Could be worth a visit, for anyone here who needs convincing!


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    #98
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    DBB wrote: »
    Great! I'll have a look around later for some good websites which will help you explore these things in a little more depth, the more you learn, the more interesting it all gets!
    I'm on my phone now but when I get on my laptop later, it'll be easier to have a look. Though I suspect there are others here who can link to some good stuff too.

    HI Mr. Bungle,
    I've been having a look around at tried and trusted sites of behavioural practitioners around the world, and here are a few to get you going. There is a bit of rooting to be done, and you may just find you end up reading link after link for ages... I know I had to cop myself on and reverse out because I'd stay there reading all night! But interesting reading throughout, and nice to see all websites highlighting the problems caused by the "dominance" approach.
    HEre you go:

    Dr. Ian Dunbar's site: http://www.dogstardaily.com has a whooooolllle load of bloggers, all established behvaioural practitioners around the world. There are also a number of interesting articles to read in dog behaviour, behaviour problems etc

    Who doesn't love Sophia Yin, she's some cookie: http://drsophiayin.com/resources/dog_behavior/#general aggression
    Here you'll find a long list of links for you to dip in and out of, on subject after subject related to dog behaviour, written by Dr. Yin herself.

    And finally for now, the utterly brilliant Jean Donaldson, a real aggression specialist with a nice way of explaining things. Here's her blog:
    http://academyfordogtrainers.com/blog/

    I hope this is enough to be getting on with! :) If anyone else has any more blogs or sites they'd like to add, please feel free!


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    #99
    mr bungle.
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭mr bungle.


    Hi DBB
    Thanks again for your help,I will have a browse through them during week,hopefully things will improve as a result!


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    #100
    BillyMitchel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,324 ✭✭✭BillyMitchel


    Supersiderman wrote: »
    Yes to a certain degree. I mean a slap not a punch or kick. A dog needs discipline especially bigger dogs or they will walk all over you. A dog needs to be afraid of it's owner. The owner/master is in charge and the dog needs to know this

    I'll bite, I know I shouldn't but I will!! :pac:

    This is nothing but tripe. I've a 100lb+ of solid muscle Dogo Argentino, dogs don't get much stronger than this. Not once have I ever even considered raising a hand to him, it would not work. You cannot make a well balanced, well trained Dogo afraid of anything. Harsh correcting (hitting, being aggressive) a Dogo could lead to some pretty serious consequences. Check out the stories on some of the Dogo forums in the U.S and S.America to see what could and has happened to owners who thought this was the best way.

    Some interesting points being made. Over in the Dogo world its one that's always being debated, especially when it comes to their pray drive and some dog aggression. How hard should one be corrected, some folk have said if you cant give a hard correction to a Dogo then you've no business in owning one. I've taken advice from both sides with training him and its worked pretty well. Loving but firm as they say. If he does something wrong then first time my voice is raised slightly and I call him. Second time my voice is raised again while I click my fingers and call and third I'll move him with his collar. That was only the first few months though and now all I have to do is look at him and maybe click my fingers and he knows. Regardless of what other websites say about the breed and training I think its been pretty easy. All that was needed was consistency. Still not recommend for a beginner though.

    Its like a mutual understanding to a certain extent I have with him. I let him be a dog and he knows not to push it. I follow no format or rules but its working now and has done with other breeds I've had over a number of years. We wont be apart of the navy seals anytime soon but he knows whats right and wrong so it's all good.

    Also agree with most people, when we were kids, having a newspaper was one of the handiest tools to have for the slap on the nose or dipping their nose in it when they went in the house. Never hard though but its hasn't been done in years and wont be done again.

    To answer the question about what would I do if my dog tried to bite me, I'd run for my life! :D He wouldn't though he's just a big cuddly polar bear.

    God I waffle on a lot!


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