I need feminism because...

Annasopra

Because I just read some social media commentary calling Cllr Rebecca Moynihan an asshole for highlighting this.


http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/viking-splash-tours-apologise-after-4038570

YumCha

Woman refused abortion made to give birth by caesarean

Follow up with more details - psychiatrists on expert panel believed abortion was justified

Also this:
Chances of getting a rape case to prosecution at lowest levels ever in UK since records began

meeeeh

YumCha wrote: »

Also this:
Chances of getting a rape case to prosecution at lowest levels ever in UK since records began

While any number of non prosecuted cases is to high, I wonder if the stats are not a bit hard to compare at the moment because of the influx of historical cases after Jimmy Saville scandal. And those are probably extremely hard to prosecute if you don't find couple of victims of the same person. I could be wrong but the proportion of non prosecuted historical cases would be interesting to know.

YumCha

YumCha wrote: »

Woman refused abortion made to give birth by caesarean

Follow up with more details - psychiatrists on expert panel believed abortion was justified

Another update: apparently the woman was a rape survivor, who believes the state denied her abortion until foetus became legally viable:

https://twitter.com/JohnBurnsST/status/500746784101371904

So, so angry about this...

rainbow kirby

Paywalled...but you can get some of the important details

Found out at 8 weeks, pregnancy as a result of rape, delayed until a delivery at 25 weeks.

What the everloving **** is wrong with this country.

Tarzana

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Paywalled...but you can get some of the important details

Found out at 8 weeks, pregnancy as a result of rape, delayed until a delivery at 25 weeks.

What the everloving **** is wrong with this country.

Weird, RTÉ has omitted the detail that she was raped:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0816/637562-abortion-refusal/

A young woman had a baby delivered by caesarean section after a panel of experts convened under the country's new laws decided not to permit an abortion.

Her case was assessed under the legislation which was passed last summer and came into effect at the start of the year.

The woman cannot be identified because there is a court order in place with reporting restrictions.

This was first reported in the Irish Independent this morning but more details have emerged throughout the day.

She was admitted to hospital in her second trimester wanting to have a termination.

RTÉ News understands that she was very vulnerable.

The Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act says that a termination can be carried out if a woman's life is at risk.

It includes from suicide and this can only be averted by carrying out a termination.

The legislation came into force at the beginning of this year,

The woman was assessed by a panel of three experts, It was agreed that she had suicidal thoughts and a decision was made to terminate the pregnancy by caesarean section.

It is believed that the woman wanted to have an abortion and began a hunger strike.

The Health Service Executive sought an order from the High Court to allow it to hydrate her by giving fluids.

This order was granted.

A second court date was set but later withdrawn after the woman agreed to have the baby delivered by caesarean section a few days later.

This was performed when she was 24 going on 25 weeks pregnant.

The baby is being cared for in hospital at the moment.

No mention it being rape.

Tarzana

strobe wrote: »

...you can hardly play the 'whataboutery card' on this one surely..?

Interesting choice of words. Do you consider it "playing a card" whenever someone mentions whataboutery on this forum? Maybe people actually consider it, ya know, whataboutery and are not playing a card?

SueBoom

Tarzana wrote: »

Weird, RTÉ has omitted the detail that she was raped:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0816/637562-abortion-refusal/

No mention it being rape.

"The woman cannot be identified because there is a court order in place with reporting restrictions." This reporting restriction generally suggests rape, or sexual assualt in other cases.

meeeeh

Indo are saying she might have been raped but also that she was afraid for her life from someone known to her. She is not irish. I think in this case the speculation can lead you in so many directions that it is actually very hard to presume anything.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/i-am-afraid-ill-be-killed-abortion-case-woman-believed-her-life-was-in-danger-30513878.html

YumCha

meeeeh wrote: »

Indo are saying she might have been raped but also that she was afraid for her life from someone known to her. She is not irish. I think in this case the speculation can lead you in so many directions that it is actually very hard to presume anything.

What speculation is that?

I would trust the Indo's 'reporting' with a grain of salt. The Sunday Times has already stated that they worked for a week on the story.

And whatever your source for news - the way this woman has been treated is barbaric.

meeeeh

YumCha wrote: »

What speculation is that?

I would trust the Indo's 'reporting' with a grain of salt. The Sunday Times has already stated that they worked for a week on the story.

And whatever your source for news - the way this woman has been treated is barbaric.

You really think that a immigrant that barley speaks English knows that she needs to be suiccidal to get an abortion? I think she got progressively under more pressure until she had a lot less options and probably became more and more scared, desperate and possibly suiccidal. But I don't think you will found that HSE procedure was wrong. But it shows how I humane the law is. I am speculating that this is not a case against suecide clause, this case shows how unfair general unavailability of absorption is. But again that is me speculating what happened.

But yes she was treated barbaric but because there is no general availability of abortion not because of procedure.

YumCha

meeeeh wrote: »

But I don't think you will found that HSE procedure was wrong.

I think we're going to disagree here - because imo the HSE leaving her in limbo for 16-odd weeks is absolutely wrong.

Amirani

I was grabbing a coffee in McDonald's in Phibsboro the other day and I needed to use the bathroom. I noticed that there were 3 options:

1. Ladies/Baby Changing
2. Men
3. Wheelchair

Why not have baby changing facilities in both toilets, or in a gender neutral area? Why obligate mothers to always change the babies instead of fathers?

Links234

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I was grabbing a coffee in McDonald's in Phibsboro the other day and I needed to use the bathroom. I noticed that there were 3 options:

1. Ladies/Baby Changing
2. Men
3. Wheelchair

Why not have baby changing facilities in both toilets, or in a gender neutral area? Why obligate mothers to always change the babies instead of fathers?

It's made even more complicated when you think about what a mum with a little boy or dad with a little girl are supposed to do? I'm often amazed when abroad and find gender neutral facilities. Why not just one big bathroom with lots of cubicles, larger cupicles for disabled, and baby changing facilities, that's for everyone?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

My dad worked part-time and my mam full-time when we were little, so he'd have us out and about a lot. He didn't know whether to bring us into the men's toilets or go into the women's toilets with us. A lot of my earliest memories involve peeing outside...

meeeeh

YumCha wrote: »

I think we're going to disagree here - because imo the HSE leaving her in limbo for 16-odd weeks is absolutely wrong.

Today's Times has a lot more comprehensive article. The suecide clause was no good to her at 8 weeks and as I thought she wasn't aware of the law here and I would guess she was offered very little support. It will turn out that HSE did everything by procedure. It also proves how lack of abortion is inhumane and how she was placed in more danger because termination was not available to her.

On a seperate issue I do wish media would properly report things and not as they wish them to be. I'm not an apologist for HSE but ST went for ridiculous sensationalism that just didn't make sense. HSE are very often in humane but they are not that dumb. And to top it all the actual truth seems to be a even more horrific.

iwantmydinner

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/08/violation-after-violation-why-did-ireland-force-woman-hunger-strike-bear-her

Into The Blue

Journey Melodic Raspberry wrote: »

My dad worked part-time and my mam full-time when we were little, so he'd have us out and about a lot. He didn't know whether to bring us into the men's toilets or go into the women's toilets with us. A lot of my earliest memories involve peeing outside...

We use the Differently Abled facilities.

pwurple

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I was grabbing a coffee in McDonald's in Phibsboro the other day and I needed to use the bathroom. I noticed that there were 3 options:

1. Ladies/Baby Changing
2. Men
3. Wheelchair

Why not have baby changing facilities in both toilets, or in a gender neutral area? Why obligate mothers to always change the babies instead of fathers?

My husband will go straight into the ladies for that one. No-one has objected in nearly 4 years of babies.

YumCha

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/maeve-sheehan-traumatic-journey-of-a-pregnant-girl-30531610.html

py2006

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

The fact that women's experiences are consistently devalued is proof enough of why we still need feminism. Feminism provides a space for women to talk about their experiences without being shouted down or told that they're imagining it, exaggerating, etc. Of course you'll always find men who want to push their way into this space in order to continue to dictate to women how they should or shouldn't feel about certain experiences or issues. I honestly think that attitude stems from some men's inability to accept that there is a space in which they're not in control of the conversation, since in pretty much every other walk of life the dominant voices tend to be male.

(Obviously this doesn't mean that men can't get involved in a feminist conversation, simply talking about those who only want to join the conversation so they can tell women they're wrong)

I have to say, I found a lot of this post to be nonsense. If you have men like this in your life, do something about it. I would never allow (as I have done in the past) women or men to assume (or want to have) that level of control over me.

Also, feminism is not (and certainly should not) be privileged enough to be above criticism.

Dolbert

^Oh, the irony.

iwantmydinner

py2006 wrote: »

I have to say, I found a lot of this post to be nonsense. If you have men like this in your life, do something about it. I would never allow (as I have done in the past) women or men to assume (or want to have) that level of control over me.

Also, feminism is not (and certainly should not) be privileged enough to be above criticism.

My irony-ometer just exploded.

Da Shins Kelly

py2006 wrote: »

I have to say, I found a lot of this post to be nonsense. If you have men like this in your life, do something about it. I would never allow (as I have done in the past) women or men to assume (or want to have) that level of control over me.

Also, feminism is not (and certainly should not) be privileged enough to be above criticism.

:pac:

py2006

py2006 wrote: »

I have to say, I found a lot of this post to be nonsense. If you have men like this in your life, do something about it. I would never allow (as I have done in the past) women or men to assume (or want to have) that level of control over me.

Also, feminism is not (and certainly should not) be privileged enough to be above criticism.

There really are none so blind as those that simply refuse to see.

Shakespeare's Sister

Maybe put yourself in the shoes of the women posting here Py. I don't agree with all the views either but some points raised are valid.
I'm not saying this to antagonise but what you're doing is the equivalent of me walking into a discussion about why MRA is needed and selecting a post like DSK's and dismissing it, when the sentiments are the same - just that one is a mostly female platform and the other, mostly male.
This is what creates the "Them and us" effect - it'd be the ideal if the similarities rather than differences could be embraced. Members of both genders know what it's like to be affected in a negative way due to their gender... different circumstances for sure, but still, same effects.

ivytwine

Because no person has a right to assault you sexually, and then assault you physically when you tell them to stop.

I feel sick looking at that poor girl's face. http://www.newstalk.ie/Woman-shares-shocking-selfie-after-she-is-punched-for-standing-up-to-sexual-harrasser

smoking_kills

ivytwine wrote: »

Because no person has a right to assault you sexually, and then assault you physically when you tell them to stop.

I feel sick looking at that poor girl's face. http://www.newstalk.ie/Woman-shares-shocking-selfie-after-she-is-punched-for-standing-up-to-sexual-harrasser

Good thing we have Laws for this kind of thing then!

Ambersky

smoking kills says
good we have laws for this kind of thing then

Yeah thats good all right nothing to complain about there then but its a pity we live in a society where the statistics for the conviction of rape, let alone sexual assault, are so abysmal that people usually dont even bother reporting it.
Well that and the fact that sexual assault is all so common and played down that women in particular have difficulty even realising that what has just happened to them is a sexual assault.

The newstalk report quoted above was about an assault that happened in the UK where some might expect the law to be more effective than here in Ireland but heres some UK reporting on the issue.

Fewer than one rape victim in 30 can expect to see her or his attacker brought to justice, shocking new statistics reveal.

Only 1,070 rapists are convicted every year despite up to 95,000 people – the vast majority of them women – suffering the trauma of rape – according to the new research by the Ministry of Justice, the Home Office and the Office for National Statistics

The research also found an average of 473,000 men and women are victims of sexual offences, including flashing and groping, each year. But only 54,000 cases are reported to by police and 5,620 offenders are convicted.

So whats that then about a one chance in one hundred of being convicted of sexual assault,
dont think I find that law too reassuring.

http://http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/100000-assaults-1000-rapists-sentenced-shockingly-low-conviction-rates-revealed-8446058.html

sunshine and showers

Did Playboy just publish something kinda feminist? :eek:

YumCha

Because the comments on any article about feminism invariably show why we need feminism (also shoutout to the Feminist Film Festival in Dublin this weekend!)

http://www.thejournal.ie/feminist-film-festival-dublin-1644709-Aug2014/

ancapailldorcha

YumCha wrote: »

Because the comments on any article about feminism invariably show why we need feminism (also shoutout to the Feminist Film Festival in Dublin this weekend!)

http://www.thejournal.ie/feminist-film-festival-dublin-1644709-Aug2014/

I don't see any coarse language at least though peoples' names are being displayed which might account for that.

Annasopra

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't see any coarse language at least though peoples' names are being displayed which might account for that.

Thejournal tend to moderate the really offensive stuff. I agree the comments on this article really do illustrate the need for feminism.

ancapailldorcha

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Thejournal tend to moderate the really offensive stuff. I agree the comments on this article really do illustrate the need for feminism.

Thank God it wasn't a Youtube video.

paperclip2

Ceelo Green reckons its only rape if the person is conscious apparently. http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/sep/02/cee-lo-green-it-isnt-if-the-victim-is-unconscious

This from a chap who didn't contest charges that he spiked a woman's drink with ecstasy without her knowledge:http://www.complex.com/music/2014/09/cee-lo-green-tries-to-define-what-rape-is-on-twitter

sunshine and showers

In Texas, you can be a "suspect" for "abandoning" a "possible foetus"... Known by more sane people as having a miscarriage. And the "suspect" is a teenage girl who was at school. I'm horrified, disgusted and speechless in equal measures.

http://jezebel.com/texas-cops-swarm-school-pray-over-possible-fetus-found-1629620582/all

eviltwin

sunshine and showers wrote: »

In Texas, you can be a "suspect" for "abandoning" a "possible foetus"... Known by more sane people as having a miscarriage. And the "suspect" is a teenage girl who was at school. I'm horrified, disgusted and speechless in equal measures.

http://jezebel.com/texas-cops-swarm-school-pray-over-possible-fetus-found-1629620582/all

WTF?? :eek: As bad and all as this country is I am so grateful not to be living in the USA but at least they are praying for her, that'll really help her when she's worrying about possible criminal charges for having a miscarriage :rolleyes:

sunshine and showers

sunshine and showers wrote: »

In Texas, you can be a "suspect" for "abandoning" a "possible foetus"... Known by more sane people as having a miscarriage. And the "suspect" is a teenage girl who was at school. I'm horrified, disgusted and speechless in equal measures.

http://jezebel.com/texas-cops-swarm-school-pray-over-possible-fetus-found-1629620582/all

Batsh*t crazy stuff.

metaoblivia

eviltwin wrote: »

WTF?? :eek: As bad and all as this country is I am so grateful not to be living in the USA but at least they are praying for her, that'll really help her when she's worrying about possible criminal charges for having a miscarriage :rolleyes:

They determined there were no criminal charges to be filed but yes - a crazy reaction yet again from the great state of Texas.

http://educationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/09/fetus-found-at-woodrow-wilson-high-school-was-the-result-of-a-miscarriage.html/

Annasopra

http://viralwomen.com/post/this_is_why_we_need_feminism

YumCha

Da Shins Kelly

Came across this parody Twitter account of the Women Against Feminism movement. A few of the tweets gave me a chuckle.

"I don’t need femsies because i APPRECIATE it WHEN strange men remind to smile i am so forgetful i forget i should be smiling constantly"

https://twitter.com/NoToFeminism

Lyaiera

I need feminism because it allows women to do this.

"Jogging US Marshal kicks man in the crotch, arrests him after he yanked down her shorts" - http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/05/jogging-us-marshal-kicks-man-in-the-crotch-arrests-him-after-he-yanked-down-her-shorts/

Morag

Becuase yesterday a judge who had just retired said judges don't need new training to deal with rape and sexual assault charges
http://www.thejournal.ie/justice-barry-white-rape-sentence-1671812-Sep2014/

And now today we have this case were a person who has been found guilty of sexual assulat can have his record kept clean if he pays 1,500 of a fine.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/barman-will-have-sex-assault-case-struck-out-if-he-pays-victim-euro15k-286595.html

Fcuk this country.

eviltwin

Morag wrote: »

Becuase yesterday a judge who had just retired said judges don't need new training to deal with rape and sexual assault charges
http://www.thejournal.ie/justice-barry-white-rape-sentence-1671812-Sep2014/

And now today we have this case were a person who has been found guilty of sexual assulat can have his record kept clean if he pays 1,500 of a fine.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/barman-will-have-sex-assault-case-struck-out-if-he-pays-victim-euro15k-286595.html

Fcuk this country.

ah the old "but I'd been drinking" excuse, makes me fcuking sick :mad:

sunshine and showers

What the ever living f*ck?

So much rage.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/philippines-mall-pulls-tshirt-appearing-to-justify-rape-after-online-outrage-9751060.html

Jenneke87

Wow, why and how do people come up with that????

allym

Because Emma Watson tries to do her part for feminism, and is threatened with leaking nude photos.

It's actually terrifying that there's that much hate out there.

Into The Blue

sunshine and showers wrote: »

What the ever living f*ck?

So much rage.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/philippines-mall-pulls-tshirt-appearing-to-justify-rape-after-online-outrage-9751060.html

Hear this tripe in work every day..

Want to play a game of rapey rapey?
No?
That's the spirit!

Or

It's not rape, it's surprise sex..

Shock humour is some people's cup of tea, more's the pity.

eviltwin

Into The Blue wrote: »

Hear this tripe in work every day..

Want to play a game of rapey rapey?
No?
That's the spirit!

Or

It's not rape, it's surprise sex..

Shock humour is some people's cup of tea, more's the pity.

You have to put up with that in work :eek: