I need feminism because...

meeeeh

eviltwin wrote: »

You have to put up with that in work :eek:

Yeah that's what I thought too. But then again I saw a car the other day with stickers: "I love big boobs", "Four doors for more whores" and "Powered by dole". I guess there is no limit to human stupidity.

Edit: seriously where do you work? I work in predominately male environments, especially when younger I had to put up with quite a bit of nonsense or childish behaviour, but never did anybody make rape jokes.

Into The Blue

Yeah, they try to out do each other with who can come up with the most shocking comment at the breaks.
I'm in the middle of serving my notice, and brought it up at the exit interview.

meeeeh

Into The Blue wrote: »

Yeah, they try to out do each other with who can come up with the most shocking comment at the breaks.
I'm in the middle of serving my notice, and brought it up at the exit interview.

Good . I would hate to work in an organization that tolerates that kind of behaviour.

IvyTheTerrible

And then if you complain about rape jokes, you get told there's no such thing as rape culture, or that it's humour so it's ok to joke about.

iwantmydinner

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

And then if you complain about rape jokes, you get told there's no such thing as rape culture, or that it's humour so it's ok to joke about.

"That guy over there laughed so you're just a dry old feminazi"

Links234

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

And then if you complain about rape jokes, you get told there's no such thing as rape culture, or that it's humour so it's ok to joke about.

Part of the problem is that for a lot of people, the humour comes from the subject being taboo and that the more not OK something is, the more they want to joke about it and derive humour from it. This is why things like dead baby jokes seem to keep going, I mean for example, I remember a few years back some celeb had a miscarriage and there were these absolutely horrific jokes going around about it. Sometimes, the more out of bounds something is, the more taboo it is to derive humour from, the more some people will want to joke about it.

That's not to say that some seriously ****ty attitudes can't be proliferated through humour, they certainly can, and I'd find it hard to believe the type of guy who tells the old "what do you say to a woman with two black eyes?" joke in public for everyone to overhear isn't harbouring some serious misogynistic views. It's just that there's more to it than that, and you'll often find that if someone says "you can't joke about X" then someone else is damn well gonna joke about it at the first opportunity. Humour can be very dark.

Kav0777

I'm against gender quotas in principle, believing that it should be about quality/ability & not gender, but when this happens:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/kenny-rejected-three-women-to-appoint-male-crony-to-seanad-30610805.html

Sexism & stroke politics all in one. 3 qualified women ignored to give an unqualified man a job to help him get elected next time round. Jesus wept.

(I know this is the ladies lounge and i'm male, and i shouldn't post in here, but i felt this is the place to post it)

Kav0777

Kav0777 wrote: »

(I know this is the ladies lounge and i'm male, and i shouldn't post in here, but i felt this is the place to post it)

Men are more than welcome to post in here, we just ask that everyone, male or female, respect the charter and ethos of the forum. Nothing more

ancapailldorcha

Kav0777 wrote: »

I'm against gender quotas in principle, believing that it should be about quality/ability & not gender, but when this happens:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/kenny-rejected-three-women-to-appoint-male-crony-to-seanad-30610805.html

Sexism & stroke politics all in one. 3 qualified women ignored to give an unqualified man a job to help him get elected next time round. Jesus wept.

(I know this is the ladies lounge and i'm male, and i shouldn't post in here, but i felt this is the place to post it)

That title seems to imply that their only qualifications are that they're female which is hardly surprising that this is the Indo. Not that I'm defending cronyism mind. There is no reason to assume that they're not qualified but I think that headline is needlessly sensationalistic.

Carlos Orange

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

There is no reason to assume that they're not qualified but I think that headline is needlessly sensationalistic.

There is no reason to think they are qualified either. Given the slant of the article it is strange they didn't have any quotes supporting any or all of the womens qualifications.

ancapailldorcha

psinno wrote: »

There is no reason to think they are qualified either. Given the slant of the article it is strange they didn't have any quotes supporting any or all of the womens qualifications.

I found that strange myself. It's the Indo at the end of the day so I'll take this with a pinch of salt.

allym

allym wrote: »

Because Emma Watson tries to do her part for feminism, and is threatened with leaking nude photos.

It's actually terrifying that there's that much hate out there.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/24/6837585/emma-watson-nude-photo-threats-were-hoax-anti-4chan-campaign

Das Kitty

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/24/6837585/emma-watson-nude-photo-threats-were-hoax-anti-4chan-campaign

So Emma Watson was used as a pawn in a grudge match? That's even worse IMO.

ancapailldorcha

Turns out it's a hoax:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/29341593

allym

[Deleted User] wrote: »

http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/24/6837585/emma-watson-nude-photo-threats-were-hoax-anti-4chan-campaign

Yeah I saw that yesterday evening. But I agree with DasKitty, I don't know if that's any better or worse. It's also awful that it was a believable story. Unfortunately, I didn't even question if it was legit.

Das Kitty

Das Kitty wrote: »

So Emma Watson was used as a pawn in a grudge match? That's even worse IMO.

I wouldn't go quite that far. It somewhat undermines the "some amount of hate" argument and solidifies the argument that advertising and marketing is pure evil.

allym wrote: »

Yeah I saw that yesterday evening. But I agree with DasKitty, I don't know if that's any better or worse. It's also awful that it was a believable story. Unfortunately, I didn't even question if it was legit.

There's a correlation between how long someone's been on the internet and how likely they are to believe that a countdown timer will deliver what is claimed.

Scarinae

The organizer says emmayouarenext.com reached 48 million visitors, 7 million Facebook shares and likes, and 3 million Twitter mentions.

They're delighted with the result apparently, but did they ever consider what impact this might have on Emma Watson herself?

Das Kitty

Scarinae wrote: »

They're delighted with the result apparently, but did they ever consider what impact this might have on Emma Watson herself?

Sure she's just a woman. Why would they need to consider that?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't go quite that far. It somewhat undermines the "some amount of hate" argument and solidifies the argument that advertising and marketing is pure evil.

There's a correlation between how long someone's been on the internet and how likely they are to believe that a countdown timer will deliver what is claimed.

It really sounds like you think it's a fuss about nothing.

Unless, of course, you're Emma Watson.

Candie

Candie wrote: »

It really sounds like you think it's a fuss about nothing.

Unless, of course, you're Emma Watson.

Of course it sounds like that to you.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course it sounds like that to you.

Huh? What does that mean?

sunshine and showers

I thought it had transpired that the Emma Watson thing was a fake?

All the sentiment still stands about how messed up it is, but at least she won't have to have her privacy violated.

ancapailldorcha

Scarinae wrote: »

They're delighted with the result apparently, but did they ever consider what impact this might have on Emma Watson herself?

I doubt it. Keyboard warriors aren't known for their compassion.

Candie

Candie wrote: »

Huh? What does that mean?

If you want to pretend not to get my point then you're not going to.
The original point was supposedly that Watson was attacked because of her speech and feminism is needed because of the hate she was attracting for that speech. It turns out that wasn't the case.

I feel for her and when I first heard about the site was hoping she would have been in a position to say from the outset "No, you haven't got such pics.". Would've been nice for it to be shut down straightaway.
I hope she can get some satisfaction in the long-run anyway.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

If you want to pretend not to get my point then you're not going to.
The original point was supposedly that Watson was attacked because of her speech and feminism is needed because of the hate she was attracting for that speech. It turns out that wasn't the case.

I feel for her and when I first heard about the site was hoping she would have been in a position to say from the outset "No, you haven't got such pics.". Would've been nice for it to be shut down straightaway.
I hope she can get some satisfaction in the long-run anyway.

I don't know where thats coming from. My reading of your posts is that there isn't 'hate' out there because the site was a hoax.

It may have been a hoax but it was at the expense of Miss Watson, either way. It's not nice to be threatened with any kind of exposure. For all I know, she may never have taken naked selfies but maybe was worried that she was spied on and some taken surreptitiously.

Either way she was used like an object to get hits for the site, and the impact of that shouldn't be minimised and the people involved excused as not that hateful. They targeted Watson without caring of the toll it'd take.

There is hate out there, as seen in the reaction of some to the promised pics.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/09/22/emma_watson_attacked_after_un_speech_on_feminism_4chan_users_threaten_to.html

Though there’s no way to know if this is a real threat, or just an ugly prank, Jill Filipovic of Cosmopolitan captured some 4chan users explicitly suggesting nude photo leaks to punish Watson for her outspoken feminism.

"That feminist bitch Emma is going to show the world she is as much of a whore as any woman," wrote one. "She makes stupid feminist speeches at UN, and now her nudes will be online, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH,"

Candie

Candie wrote: »

I don't know where thats coming from. My reading of your posts is that there isn't 'hate' out there because the site was a hoax.

So even though it's a hoax all the stuff that was said when it was assumed it wasn't still applies?

It may have been a hoax but it was at the expense of Miss Watson, either way. It's not nice to be threatened with any kind of exposure. For all I know, she may never have taken naked selfies but maybe was worried that she was spied on and some taken surreptitiously.

She seems the type who would've been straight out to say something if there were none more's the pity.

Either way she was used like an object to get hits for the site, and the impact of that shouldn't be minimised and the people involved excused as not that hateful. They targeted Watson without caring of the toll it'd take.

Except that it's for pretty much the opposite reason that was originally proffered. Like I said, I hope she gets some satisfaction eventually and the last few days will have been pretty ****ty for her.

There is hate out there, as seen in the reaction of some to the promised pics.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/09/22/emma_watson_attacked_after_un_speech_on_feminism_4chan_users_threaten_to.html

Yup, not quite so much as was originally suggested no?

IvyTheTerrible

Das Kitty wrote: »

Sure she's just a woman. Why would they need to consider that?

And she's a woman in the public eye, what should she expect?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Yup, not quite so much as was originally suggested no?

The only thing I'm reacting to is the revelation of the amount of hate out there.

The site may have been a hoax, but the hate isn't, is it?

Candie

Candie wrote: »

The only thing I'm reacting to is the revelation of the amount of hate out there.

The site may have been a hoax, but the hate isn't, is it?

Except the "amount of hate" referred to the fact that people were going to leak photos. Which they weren't.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Except the "amount of hate" referred to the fact that people were going to leak photos. Which they weren't.

It takes some amount of hate to use a woman in the way they used Watson. Absolute contempt for her as a person. And the hate it revealed in the comments online in reference to it is horrific.

But whatever you say.

allym

Candie wrote: »

It takes some amount of hate to use a woman in the way they used Watson. Absolute contempt for her as a person. And the hate it revealed in the comments online in reference to it is horrific.

But whatever you say.

Exactly. When I was talking about hate, I didn't just mean the threatening of leaking pictures, but some of the comments that we're being made about it. And again, even though the site turned out to be fake, the fact that people even believed that it was true, shows that it's something that could happen.

Morgase

I need feminism because:

A space engineer, who has prepared to become Russia's first female cosmonaut in years, gets asked questions about hairstyling and her children in the press conference preceding the flight.

Source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/25/female-cosmonaut-russia-yelena-serova-press-questions-hair-parenting

Russia’s Yelena Serova on Thursday prepared to become the first female cosmonaut in 17 years – but only after having to answer questions about her hairstyle and whether her daughter would cope while she was away.

The 38-year-old space engineer is due to blast off in a Soyuz spacecraft from the Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan on Thursday with Russian cosmonaut Alexander Samokutyaev and Barry Wilmore of Nasa. She has spent seven years training for the role.

While the Soviet Union was the first to send a woman into space – Valentina Tereshkova in 1963 – it failed to build on that promising start and Serova will be just the fourth Soviet or Russian woman in space.

Serova has been barraged with questions focusing on her gender and how she will manage to bond with her 11-year-old daughter while she is away. She even offered to give a demonstration of washing her hair in space.

But her patience appeared to run out at a pre-launch press conference in Baikonur on Wednesday when a journalist asked her to comment again on how she would look after her hair aboard the International Space Station and whether she would keep her current style.

“Can I ask a question, too: aren’t you interested in the hair styles of my colleagues?” she said at the televised news conference, flanked by the male astronauts who will accompany her.

She stressed: “My flight is my job. I feel a huge responsibility towards the people who taught and trained us and I want to tell them: we won’t let you down!”

Serova was personally chosen by the then head of Russia’s space agency, Vladimir Popovkin. “We are doing this flight for Russia’s image,” he said. “She will manage it, but the next woman won’t fly out soon.”

The ISS has seen its share of female astronauts, most recently American flight engineer Karen Nyberg, who completed a six-month stint last year.

Serova was born in a village in eastern Russia and studied engineering at the prestigious Moscow Aviation Institute. Before being selected as a future cosmonaut in 2006, she worked as an engineer at the spaceship manufacturers RKK Energia and at the mission control centre.

Rosy Posy

Another thread on AH about a man wrongfully accused of rape. I don't condone the actions of the accusers in these cases and feel for the men who have had their reputations and more tarnished. However I hate that it always leads to questioning rape stats and an assumption that false convictions are rife. As a multiple rape survivor I have never reported a rape and of all the people I know who have suffered rape only one has pursued her attacker legally. It seems to me that sexual violence tends to be underreported, but from the attitude on some of these threads you would imagine the opposite. I also hate that I'm put off raising these points in the threads in question because of the undercurrent of misogyny that pervades them.

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

Except the "amount of hate" referred to the fact that people were going to leak photos. Which they weren't.

I don't get your point at all really.

Don't ever let the available information change your original outraged reaction I guess.

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't ever let the available information change your original outraged reaction I guess.

I dunno but it seems to me you're attempting to downplay and minimise the hate against her.

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I dunno but it seems to me you're attempting to downplay and minimise the hate against her.

Of course it does.

Links234

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9qVaMhnJB8

Morgase

Morgase wrote: »

I need feminism because:

A space engineer, who has prepared to become Russia's first female cosmonaut in years, gets asked questions about hairstyling and her children in the press conference preceding the flight.

The Female Cosmonaut wrote:

My flight is my job. I feel a huge responsibility towards the people who taught and trained us and I want to tell them: we won’t let you down!

The Head of the Russian Space Agency wrote:

We are doing this flight for Russia’s image. She will manage it, but the next woman won’t fly out soon

Whatever about the reporters ... what a vote of confidence from her boss!

The fish truly stinks from the head.

Morgase

Deleted User wrote: »

Whatever about the reporters ... what a vote of confidence from her boss!

The fish truly stinks from the head.

I know, it's like a pure box-ticking exercise for them. Fingers crossed for her that she doesn't cock up in any way, because if she does, that will be used as a justification for not sending female cosmonauts any time soon. Talk about pressure on her.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course it does.

Thats the second time you responded to a poster that way, without any proper explanation.

I get that you're implying that we're seeing hate that isn't there, but I just don't see how anyone can look at the way this girl was used and the comments it engendered and not see hate.

Maybe it's you who's choosing not to see the obvious.

TheBeardedLady

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Another thread on AH about a man wrongfully accused of rape. I don't condone the actions of the accusers in these cases and feel for the men who have had their reputations and more tarnished. However I hate that it always leads to questioning rape stats and an assumption that false convictions are rife. As a multiple rape survivor I have never reported a rape and of all the people I know who have suffered rape only one has pursued her attacker legally. It seems to me that sexual violence tends to be underreported, but from the attitude on some of these threads you would imagine the opposite. I also hate that I'm put off raising these points in the threads in question because of the undercurrent of misogyny that pervades them.

Yep. I know two women very well who were raped and who didn't report for fear of not being believed. Threads like do nothing to help and as you said, you're fighting a losing battle posting in those threads if you speak out against it. Horrible stuff. Horrible to think people with those attitudes are walking around.

TheBeardedLady

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Yep. I know two women very well who were raped and who didn't report for fear of not being believed. Threads like do nothing to help and as you said, you're fighting a losing battle posting in those threads if you speak out against it. Horrible stuff. Horrible to think people with those attitudes are walking around.

One case, thousands of miles away, and the usual suspects in AH are behaving as though they're under siege by thousands of lying women trying to ruin their lives.

It really betrays their underlying feelings towards women generally. They think so little of us.

Ironic that if any woman posted anything like the equivalent aimed at men she'd be lit on in a righteous fury.

eviltwin

Unfortunately there is still a mentality that real genuine rape is a woman being dragged off a street by some guy in a mask. It's more likely to be raped by someone you know, usually an intimate partner but that doesn't seem to generate the same repulsion. I've worked in the past with many women who were raped by their partner, not once can I recall any of those women reporting it to gardai. Can you blame them?

Candie

Candie wrote: »

Thats the second time you responded to a poster that way, without any proper explanation.

I get that you're implying that we're seeing hate that isn't there, but I just don't see how anyone can look at the way this girl was used and the comments it engendered and not see hate.

Maybe it's you who's choosing not to see the obvious.

I'm not implying there isn't some "hate". What I'm getting at is the retconning of the outrage. So the original reason why that poster had nothing to do with the actual worry that the photos might be leaked, it was because some troll made a joke. The threatened leak is irrelevant now, it's the hate on 4chan.
I just find it amazing that a complete shift in circumstances and available information doesn't cause any change in opinion. It's just odd.

Candie

Candie wrote: »

One case, thousands of miles away, and the usual suspects in AH are behaving as though they're under siege by thousands of lying women trying to ruin their lives.

It really betrays their underlying feelings towards women generally. They think so little of us.

Ironic that if any woman posted anything like the equivalent aimed at men she'd be lit on in a righteous fury.

What proportion of the posts on this thread relate to a specific case thousands of miles away?

iwantmydinner

eviltwin wrote: »

Unfortunately there is still a mentality that real genuine rape is a woman being dragged off a street by some guy in a mask. It's more likely to be raped by someone you know, usually an intimate partner but that doesn't seem to generate the same repulsion. I've worked in the past with many women who were raped by their partner, not once can I recall any of those women reporting it to gardai. Can you blame them?

"legitimate rape"

One of most damaging concepts to have ever been dreamt up

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

What proportion of the posts on this thread relate to a specific case thousands of miles away?

I think you're in the wrong place.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not implying there isn't some "hate". What I'm getting at is the retconning of the outrage. So the original reason why that poster had nothing to do with the actual worry that the photos might be leaked, it was because some troll made a joke. The threatened leak is irrelevant now, it's the hate on 4chan.
I just find it amazing that a complete shift in circumstances and available information doesn't cause any change in opinion. It's just odd.

Why is hate in quotations? Is it somehow faux? People were looking at the hate involved in the original scenario, then as the information changed they continued to wonder at the amount of hate from many quarters.

I hope that explains for you, why in a thread about why women need feminism, women are concerned about the display of hate involved in the Emma Watson case. Y'know, her being a woman and all.

We also need feminism because sometimes, this sort of hostility towards women is not only disbelieved and minimised, but any woman commenting on it can be called on to explain themselves to people who patently don't believe that a girl being used as a pawn to gain hits on a seedy website aimed at harassing and intimidating her, and who don't seem to think that woman haters on the internet calling her a whore whos' getting what she deserves for speaking about feminism, is worthy of comment or anger.

Lucyfur

MOD

Candie and Buttonftw, you're here long enough to know the rules. Back seat modding, whataboutery and mentioning other forums are against the forum charter. If you've an issue with a post, REPORT it.

Thanks.