Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

Dubgal72

Nice session Adrian. I agree, the natural instinct is to try hang in there isn't it?!

I still haven't found the answer to which sessions you can go balls out on. I will generally do one session a week where I have just about emptied the tank... but it's not a 'race emptying the tank' if you know what I mean?

For me, I think keeping the reps consistent is always a good guide but that's a learning curve too, especially when starting interval sessions like this. You'll find that you get the feel for these types of sessions the more you do them. That might seem a bit too obvious to state but you are internally pace-programming your inner metronome each time you do an interval and if you do this consciously, you'll get there quicker.

Ps I heard a while ago that you should train with someone faster than you as well as someone slower than you each week...

adrian522

Thanks TBL and DG, makes sense. No problem finding people faster than me that's for sure. A bit of consistency would be nice but as you say i can be difficult when you are not used to these sessions.

It's now obvious to me that using a Garmin for intervals is very problematic, I (thought I) was hitting 3 mins for 0.5 miles a few weeks ago, I now realise I was probably under measuring that as I was going a lot harder today and came up with 3:05 for 800m.

Anyway despite the fall off in times in second half I'm happy with the session, a few of us bailed down to Tallaght for some coffee and scones afterwards which was cool too.

menoscemo

adrian522 wrote: »

It's now obvious to me that using a Garmin for intervals is very problematic, I (thought I) was hitting 3 mins for 0.5 miles a few weeks ago, I now realise I was probably under measuring that as I was going a lot harder today and came up with 3:05 for 800m.

Tracks are great for pacing but garmins are crap for measuring pace on tracks.

For track sessions I have the garmin on 'Time-Lap' and nothing else, effectively making it a stopwatch. So if I want to hit 3 minutes for 800m, I want to see 45 seconds at 200m, 1:30 @ 400m etc... I find this helps getting a feel for he correct pace.

adrian522

I agree with that alright, but even when not on a track I don't think the Garmin is accurate enough for proper intervals. Depends what the goal is for them I guess.

Usually I'm just trying to maintain a particular effort. On the track I guess it's easier to compare your times between reps, but still dependent on hitting the lap button at the correct time.

adrian522

Sunday

9.6 Miles @ 8:49 m/m

Headed out with the club for the long run yesterday morning and if I'm honest I was kind of expecting to go a bit longer than this, it was a nice run though. Anytime I've run in the Phoenix Park (which is a lot) I've generally stuck to the roads so it was quite cool to get off road for this one. I also think it's quite good to get the long run in on the softer surface.

I had contemplated an evening recovery run but thought better of it in the end settling instead for a bit of a haphazard core/strength/stretch/foam roll routine that went on for quite a while. I'll need to put some structure on that aspect sooner rather than later.

Missed my goal of 45 miles this week despite running everyday. Feel fine today but may take a day off nonetheless and go for a cycle or something in the evening.

43.8 miles for the week.

adrian522

Monday

Evening Cycle - 51KM


The fashion seems to be to measure cycling in KM, so 51K seems to be about the distance.

I wanted to take a day off from running so headed out after work towards Blackrock and out along the coast to Bray via Dalkey and back home along a more direct route. Close to 2 and a half hours but nothing too strenuous really.

Pity I missed the sunshine of earlier in the day but it was a nice ride. Not as much light in the evenings as I thought and it was proper dark when I got home but the cycle made a nice change from running every day.

Now back to business and a club session tonight!

adrian522

Tuesday

Club Session

7 x 600m with 200m recovery

These were done up in bushy park and the lap is a bit hit and miss so hard to read too much into times. I seemed to be hitting around 2:15 to 2:20 per 600,but its hard to compare as the laps are not all exactly the same.

Anyway it was a tough enough session, still feeling yesterdays cycle I think. There was talk of doing 8 reps, most people called it a day at 6, I split the difference with 7.

Total 5.3 Miles.

adrian522

Wednesday

Tempo Run - 7 Miles @ 7:46 m/m

Talking to the coach in the club last night and for a change checked what we were suppose to be doing in between the sessions. Typically I'd just run easy on non session days, but looking at the training program tonight was a long temp so I decided to do that tonight.

Officially I was supposed to go at 10K pace but I was never able to hit those paces despite putting the effort in, the pace just wasn't in the legs. I was happy with the effort though.

Started with a warm up mile and finished with a cool down mile.

8:54
7:27
7:07
7:14
7:21
7:07
9:07

The above times are from Garmin Connect (and I believe they are correct) but the lap times on strava are much different for some reason (they are all slower). Not sure the reason for that, maybe something has changed at Strava.

Finished up with some stretching and went through the Myrtle routine. Need to get back in the habit of core/strength work.

menoscemo

What's the programme Adrian?
Generally tempo the day after an interval session is a big no-no, be careful with that!!

Dubgal72

Ouch, no expert here Adrian, but I would question the wisdom of a tempo run the day after an interval session. Did he/she explain the theory behind this? I've had it drummed into me lately that recovery runs and rest are where your body is allowed to make the necessary adaptations but I am open to hearing why that might not always be the case...
My coach has even told me to ease off on the double days but that might be an age thing, us older athletes are more breakable

chickey2

So you're cycling in kms and running sprints in meters..... won't be long til you're running in km? ;-)

adrian522

menoscemo wrote: »

What's the programme Adrian?
Generally tempo the day after an interval session is a big no-no, be careful with that!!

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Ouch, no expert here Adrian, but I would question the wisdom of a tempo run the day after an interval session. Did he/she explain the theory behind this? I've had it drummed into me lately that recovery runs and rest are where your body is allowed to make the necessary adaptations but I am open to hearing why that might not always be the case...
My coach has even told me to ease off on the double days but that might be an age thing, us older athletes are more breakable

Thanks guys for the feedback, I'd be of the same opinion as yourselves really and was kind of expecting these responses. Meno, it's just the program she has posted up for everyone to follow. It has a session for Tuesday, tempo today and a fartlek for tomorrow. I've previously questioned the track session on Saturday followed by the long run on Sunday but I'll mention this to her again tomorrow.
I'll also take it easy tomorrow I think

chickey2 wrote: »

So you're cycling in kms and running sprints in meters..... won't be long til you're running in km? ;-)

Well, my watch is always set to miles, just converted the cycle to follow what seems to be practice there. Intervals seem to be done in meteres as they are generally based on track lengths. I'll still be measuring my runs and paces in miles though

NetwerkErrer

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Ouch, no expert here Adrian, but I would question the wisdom of a tempo run the day after an interval session. Did he/she explain the theory behind this? I've had it drummed into me lately that recovery runs and rest are where your body is allowed to make the necessary adaptations but I am open to hearing why that might not always be the case...
My coach has even told me to ease off on the double days but that might be an age thing, us older athletes are more breakable

+1. Rest is where all the gains are made in fitness. Fitness is lost if you run too hard a few days in a row or just in general. Goes against all logic but training actually causes a loss in fitness and rest is where adaptations are made. Too many hard sessions and recovery time is greatly prolonged making gains smaller than they would've been if a recovery or easy day was used.

It can cause stagnation. Doing it once won't hurt but it would rarely help. Too much risk, too little reward.

menoscemo

adrian522 wrote: »

Thanks guys for the feedback, I'd be of the same opinion as yourselves really and was kind of expecting these responses. Meno, it's just the program she has posted up for everyone to follow. It has a session for Tuesday, tempo today and a fartlek for tomorrow. I've previously questioned the track session on Saturday followed by the long run on Sunday but I'll mention this to her again tomorrow.
I'll also take it easy tomorrow I think

It's probably good for you that you now know the club have a tempo on a Wednesday as it will help with your upcoming marathon programme. but you should pick and chose which sessions suit you each week and just do two of them.

I seriously doubt anyone is doing all those sessions in any week (if they are I bet they aren't racing very well!!)

adrian522

NetwerkErrer wrote: »

+1. Rest is where all the gains are made in fitness. Fitness is lost if you run too hard a few days in a row or just in general. Goes against all logic but training actually causes a loss in fitness and rest is where adaptations are made. Too many hard sessions and recovery time is greatly prolonged making gains smaller than they would've been if a recovery or easy day was used.

It can cause stagnation. Doing it once won't hurt but it would rarely help. Too much risk, too little reward.

Thanks NE, appreciate your feedback. I feel myself that tempos are something I haven't done near enough of lately, I've been doing a lot speed work/track sessions, a lot of easy pace runs, a few long runs and a few races but little in the way of longer tempos.

I may look to do more of these and drop some of the speed work maybe limit those to one per week.

adrian522

menoscemo wrote: »

It's probably good for you that you now know the club have a tempo on a Wednesday as it will help with your upcoming marathon programme. but you should pick and chose which sessions suit you each week and just do two of them.

I seriously doubt anyone is doing all those sessions in any week (if they are I bet they aren't racing very well!!)

Cheers, this was done by myself though not with the club, just what was suggested to do today by the coach.

As I said I'll chat to her again to get a clear idea of what I should be doing(and why).

Dubgal72

+1 to the above. Has she actually recommended that you do all these sessions? If so, may be time to look elsewhere. You are totally flying these days and it would be such a shame to injure or stagnate. There's a lot more to come from you Adrian, your consistency is paying off, don't rock the boat.
My take on it is: three key sessions per week...ex, interval, tempo and medium-long run depending on the goal and everything between is rest and recovery. I think you know this already so....

Dubgal72

Ps, tempo is very goal oriented so maybe you and coach could work out a more individualised plan for you?

menoscemo

adrian522 wrote: »

Cheers, this was done by myself though not with the club, just what was suggested to do today by the coach.

As I said I'll chat to her again to get a clear idea of what I should be doing(and why).

She can be a bit of a slave driver from what I hear
Just be sensible and use the club sessions to suit your own needs.

RayCun

adrian522 wrote: »

It has a session for Tuesday, tempo today and a fartlek for tomorrow.

That is pretty crazy

Track Saturday/long run Sunday isn't so bad, the idea of doing the long run on tired legs is common. P&D have a few weekends of race Saturday/long run Sunday

adrian522

Thanks, It's possible I misunderstood what she meant, I'll try to clarify but I'll probably stay away from the session tonight.

adrian522

Moving on with the training, Obviously wanted to have an easy day today. Having ran home from work yesterday I didn't have much choice but to run in again this morning.

I had a work call last night that had me up half the night and then struggled to fall back asleep, meaning I was pretty tired anyway.

Thursday AM - 3.4 Miles @ 9:12 m/m

Thursday PM - 3.8 Miles @ 9:29 m/m

The run into work was nice, kept it very slow and it felt quite good.

After work I was a little less enthusiastic but the weather was good and there is a trail around UCD that was made for this kind of run.

This one was a bit of a slog as tiredness started to catch up with me. Another easy day tomorrow...

adrian522

Friday - 7.1 Miles @ 9:05 m/m

Well, motivation was lacking this evening, late home from work, procrastinated for a while, then headed out towards Tymon.

It was a bit of a slog at first, I was seeking out the grass to run on where possible. About 2 miles in the heavens opened, really heavy rain which I was ill prepared for.

This was less than pleasant but after a few mins you just settle into it and then get on with it. In the end it wasn't too bad.

Bumped into an ex-boardise on the way back, though he was somewhat more suitably attired than I was. No weather for stopping to chat so pushed on home.

Track session tomorrow. Maybe.

adrian522

Saturday

Track Session - 9 x 400m (with 60-90secs Recovery)

Tough getting up for this one but I knew if I didn't I'd regret it. Decent warmup and was informed that we would be doing 400's. Supposed to be 1 min recovery and there was talk of 12 reps.

I went off in the first group but was off their pace so dropped down to the slower group, they were a little more casual with the recoveries so it was more like 90 secs than 60 secs recovery.

As usual my paces were a little all over the place but happy with the effort level and good to get a session out of the way early but need to work on more consistent splits.

Rep|Time
1|85
2|85
3|83
4|88
5|94
6|88
7|91
8|92
9|90

adrian522

Sunday

Long Run - 14.1 Miles @ 8:44 m/m


Nice day today, headed out early to the Phoenix Park, wanted to get a few miles in before meeting up with the club mates for a further 10 miles.

It was a great day for it and the miles ticked off fairly quickly. Kept the pace fairly easy but didn't want to go too slowly either.

Looking to start increasing the long run over the next few weeks before starting the marathon plan proper next month.

Weekly Total 45 Miles.

adrian522

Monday

Rest Day, contemplated a recovery run but didn't get a chance.

Tuesday

Club Session - Fartlek

It was a bad day in work, had a bit of a stiff neck and back and was thinking of bailing on the session.

Decided to do the warmup and see how I felt. Obviously i ended up doing the whole thing.

The session was :

4 mins Hard/3 mins Recovery/3 mins hard/2 mins recovery/2 mins hard/1 min recovery/1 min hard/1 min recovery

The above is one set. The intention was to do 3 sets but everyone in my group seemed to call it a day after 2 sets. I would have been up for another set but didn't want to do one on my own so just did my warm down and finished up. I guess with the 5K race on Sunday it makes some degree of sense not to do too much but I felt I should probably have done another one.

Anyway the paces went something like this ( I wasn't monitoring pace, just running hard, strong wind too)

Time|Pace
4:00|6:47
3:00|7:13
2:00|6:42
1:00|6:53
4:00|7:12
3:00|7:30
2:00|6:47
1:00|6:44

Total 6.68 Miles 54:47

adrian522

Wednesday

7 Miles @ 8:58

Ran home from work today. Thought I'd planned everything so I could do this without a backpack but I'd forgotten one or 2 things I need for tomorrow so ended up running with the bag on. Uphill mainly. And into the wind.

That wind was horrible, I feel sorry for Murph doing his session up in the park in that.

Anyway got through it in the end but failed to do any core work. No change there then.

adrian522

Thursday

AM - Easy Pace Run into Work 3.1 Miles @ 8:49 m/m

Ran into work this morning, took it easy and it was mostly downhill so didn't taken too much out of me.

PM - Club Session 4.8 Miles

Session this evening but took it easy enough. Started with a 1 mile warmup.

Then a bit of a tempo lap for 2.5 laps. Paces were 7:23/7:39/7:50

Finished with some strides (5 x 25-30 seconds) and a cool down.

8 Miles for the day

tang1

Staying up for the Draft?

adrian522

So, we are on the verge of the summer and marathon training will begin soon. The plan for the first part of the year was to work on the shorter stuff and try to generate a bit of speed, 5K and 10K times have come down with PB's over both distances. There was also a 10 Mile PB in Ballycotton.

Ideally I'd really like to get another 10 Mile or Half prior to the marathon cycle but the only one seems to be Tullaroan which is not a generous course but I may run it anyway.

The P&D plan doesn't have much scope for races so that will be a change for me. Then the races it does have don't really line up with the races I'd like to do. I may need to do some juggling with that.

Anyway, back to April, the main target was the K-Club race. Aiming for 42:00, I came home in 42:08 but was very happy with this. My 10K PB had been 48:xx at the start of the year so that was a great improvement.

Mileage wise I had a bit of a down month, missed a long run, tapered for the K-Club and had 5 days with no running, though I did substitute in some longer cycles for some runs.

For May I think I'll do 3 races, 5K in Tallaght, 5K in Enfield and maybe the Half in Tullaroan on the 30th May.

Tables:

Days Running|25
Sessions|10
Long Runs|2
Races|1
PB's|1

Month|2013|2014|2015
January|7|0|191
Febraury|10|53|196
March|7|111|207.9
April|26|154|165.2
May|69|121
June|75|93
July|67|212
August|101|233
September|85|261
October|4|179
November|13|28
December|6|163
Total|471.2|1606.2|760.1