Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

adrian522

Wednesday

4 Miles @ 10:03 m/m


I feel like at this pace things should be very easy and controlled but I'm feeling like I'm working harder than I should. My HR is increasing throughout the run and its above 160 for the last 2 miles.

My watch gives me a 31 hour recovery from this run and lets me know that my training is unproductive, that I'm losing fitness. It gives me a VO2 Max score of 44, down from 47 at the start of March.

I try not to put too much faith in these Garmin numbers but it is disappointing nonetheless.

healy1835

adrian522 wrote: »

Wednesday

4 Miles @ 10:03 m/m


I feel like at this pace things should be very easy and controlled but I'm feeling like I'm working harder than I should. My HR is increasing throughout the run and its above 160 for the last 2 miles.

My watch gives me a 31 hour recovery from this run and lets me know that my training is unproductive, that I'm losing fitness. It gives me a VO2 Max score of 44, down from 47 at the start of March.

I try not to put too much faith in these Garmin numbers but it is disappointing nonetheless.

If I was to put any stock in those Garmin numbers I'd never step out the front door! Granted I don't train to HR or wear a strap, but the numbers that come back at me from the watch are genuinely funny at times

AuldManKing

healy1835 wrote: »

If I was to put any stock in those Garmin numbers I'd never step out the front door! Granted I don't train to HR or wear a strap, but the numbers that come back at me from the watch are genuinely funny at times

Agree with that - my Garmin moves 4 or 5 points depending on the day.

Dont fall down a hole Adrian worrying bout the numbers!

Are you following a set plan? Do you do much tempo stuff to build strength?

adrian522

Whatever about the Garmin numbers there is no doubt the pace I am able to run at for a given effort is decreasing.

I try to do some tempo effort stuff but finding it difficult at the moment, I have a tendency to go too fast and blowing up.

I think tempo effort right now should be around 9 min/mile. Last Saturday was around 8:52 m/m for 5K and that felt like it was too fast.

AuldManKing

adrian522 wrote: »

Whatever about the Garmin numbers there is no doubt the pace I am able to run at for a given effort is decreasing.

I try to do some tempo effort stuff but finding it difficult at the moment, I have a tendency to go too fast and blowing up.

I think tempo effort right now should be around 9 min/mile. Last Saturday was around 8:52 m/m for 5K and that felt like it was too fast.

I'm not sure if you have a coach or not or are following a particular plan - if you are then ignore the below

I'd be advising you to get strong before you get fast.
You have so much time to get 'this' sorted (what ever 'this' is).

Tempo efforts can bet a sets of 3-5min efforts with short breaks - building up the number of sets each week.
Make them progressive if you want - but start off slower then tempo.

You dont need to run 5k (or even 1mile reps) to make the tempo pace effective at building up your strength & endurance.

Strides will be helpful too - starting at 4-5 x 20secs and building up to 10.

As I say - feel free to ignore this - you've been around a long time - I'd like to see you get out of this flunk.

adrian522

AuldManKing wrote: »

I'm not sure if you have a coach or not or are following a particular plan - if you are then ignore the below

I'd be advising you to get strong before you get fast.
You have so much time to get 'this' sorted (what ever 'this' is).

Tempo efforts can bet a sets of 3-5min efforts with short breaks - building up the number of sets each week.
Make them progressive if you want - but start off slower then tempo.

You dont need to run 5k (or even 1mile reps) to make the tempo pace effective at building up your strength & endurance.

Strides will be helpful too - starting at 4-5 x 20secs and building up to 10.

As I say - feel free to ignore this - you've been around a long time - I'd like to see you get out of this flunk.

No coach and no specific plan, I have been doing a lot of longer intervals, 800,1K, 1500 etc.

Then I've been doing things like Fartlek, 1 min on 1 min off and also some tempo, like 2 x 15 mins or 5k @ Tempo but I take your point on maybe going for shorter tempo intervals like 3 x 5 mins or something like that.

I had been doing strides up until last week on easy runs, 4 x 20 seconds usually and do them before sessions also.

ThebitterLemon

Have you had a full medical check up recently just for piece of mind.

I don’t think that 4 mile easy should be physically taxing you to the extent it seems to be.

Do you feel week or unwell after runs, have you gone through a phase like this before?

TbL

adrian522

It's been the same for a few years now, I go through phases. I guess, make some progress then go backwards.

I got checked out 2 years ago I think. Heart etc. was all ok, didn't seem to be anything critical wrong.

It's very frustrating, I can go to a GP but I don't really know what to ask them to check. I got my iron levels checked and that seems good. It seems to be something respiratory, as my breathing gets fairly labored.

I don't really feel unwell after runs just find that I'm working harder than I should or am breathing heavily even at slower paces.

My sleep etc is all good.

adrian522

Thursday - Rest

Friday - 3.4 Miles @ 10:05

What started out as a 5 mile run got cut short. I think it's time for a bit of a break while I figure things out and hopefully get to the bottom of what's wrong.

lulublue22

adrian522 wrote: »

It's been the same for a few years now, I go through phases. I guess, make some progress then go backwards.

I got checked out 2 years ago I think. Heart etc. was all ok, didn't seem to be anything critical wrong.

It's very frustrating, I can go to a GP but I don't really know what to ask them to check. I got my iron levels checked and that seems good. It seems to be something respiratory, as my breathing gets fairly labored.

I don't really feel unwell after runs just find that I'm working harder than I should or am breathing heavily even at slower paces.

My sleep etc is all good.

You could ask to get your B’s checked. A friend was suffering with fatigue in general ( not running related) and she was low on B12 I think. Took a course of injections and levels came up and she was good to go. My physio recommends all runners take a vit B supplement.

OOnegative

adrian522 wrote: »

Thursday - Rest

Friday - 3.4 Miles @ 10:05

What started out as a 5 mile run got cut short. I think it's time for a bit of a break while I figure things out and hopefully get to the bottom of what's wrong.

Please god you find out what’s up A, shame to see you suffering on runs when those of us that know you know it’s not your norm.

adrian522

lulublue22 wrote: »

You could ask to get your B’s checked. A friend was suffering with fatigue in general ( not running related) and she was low on B12 I think. Took a course of injections and levels came up and she was good to go. My physio recommends all runners take a vit B supplement.

Thanks, I may ask about that, I guess that is something you need to go to a GP for?

OOnegative wrote: »

Please god you find out what’s up A, shame to see you suffering on runs when those of us that know you know it’s not your norm.

Thanks. I've reached the point now where it is not worth the effort I'm putting in, given what I'm getting out of it.

Hopefully we can turn things around but it doesn't make any sense to carry on flogging myself for little or no return.

lulublue22

adrian522 wrote: »

Thanks, I may ask about that, I guess that is something you need to go to a GP for?



Thanks. I've reached the point now where it is not worth the effort I'm putting in, given what I'm getting out of it.

Hopefully we can turn things around but it doesn't make any sense to carry on flogging myself for little or no return.

You’d need a blood test for the Bs alright. I think a trip to the GP is in order it could be something small and easily remedied. I went after the cork half last year - I was wrecked - explained what was going on and GP did a full blood panel - checked everything. Nothing showed up. For me it was a case of flogging myself in every run and I wasn’t able for it. I don’t think thats the case for you given your running history. I would definitely get checked out.

adrian522

Yeah, GP's aren't eager for face to face appointments at the moment but have a phone appointment scheduled with a provisional blood test scheduled for the same day if the Doctor agrees its needed.

I also wanted a breathing test to check lung function but I'm not sure if that is something that will be possible in this post-covid world.

lulublue22

adrian522 wrote: »

Yeah, GP's aren't eager for face to face appointments at the moment but have a phone appointment scheduled with a provisional blood test scheduled for the same day if the Doctor agrees its needed.

I also wanted a breathing test to check lung function but I'm not sure if that is something that will be possible in this post-covid world.

Fingers crossed you get the blood test.

adrian522

I should get that, they do that in the surgery.

lulublue22

adrian522 wrote: »

I should get that, they do that in the surgery.

Hopefully you’ll get some answers. Best of luck with it.

adrian522

Not much to update, no runningat all betwen May 29th and June 14th.

I started back with 5 mins running/1 min walking, at around 3 miles at a time.

This was very hard at first but as it became more manageable, I'd add 1 min to the running section. I also increased the distance from 3 to 4 miles.

Eventually I was up to 8 mins running/1 min walking. From there I've gone to 1 mile at a time.

I started at 3 runs per week and am now at around 5 runs per week

All this has been going on for 6 weeks or so now. The rate of progress has been glacial. I would have expected the rate of improvement to be much quicker.

I tried a 5k without stopping on Saturday. Pace was 9:50/mile and it was incredibly difficult, heart rating hitting 180, similar to an all out 5K effort.

So all in all I can see some progress but not much, I'm at least able to get out for a run but I'm a long way from being able to run 45-60 mins without stopping or to start adding sessions or anything like that.

Annie get your Run

Any luck with the bloods A? I feel your pain, am having similar issues, but hopefully your sensible approach will work for you and you'll see more progress as the weeks and months go on.

adrian522

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Any luck with the bloods A? I feel your pain, am having similar issues, but hopefully your sensible approach will work for you and you'll see more progress as the weeks and months go on.

Not really. Iron levels were ok. One thing was that one of the tests showed a potential iron accumulation, but I'll have to back in September to get re-tested.

I'm hoping just to continue to make progress and eventually reach a stage where I can run 45-60 mins without it feeling like a monumental effort but we shall see.

At the moment I'm able to get out 5-6 times per week and more or less enjoy it so there is that in terms of progress,

adrian522

As above I've been slowly making progress and I'm now at a point where all my runs are continuous (i.e no walking)

I've been trying to keep my runs easy, sometimes more successful than others.

At present 5 miles is about long enough before I start to work a little too hard to call it easy.

I've been running a hard 5K each Saturday, improving by about a minute each week

At the current rate I'll have a PB by mid-October. :cool:

I also want to start running a longer run on Sundays, so 6 miles today and I'll aim to add a mile each week.

Monday - 5 Miles @ 10:00 m/m
Tuesday - 4 Miles @ 9:35 m/m
Wednesday - 5 Miles @ 9:56 m/m
Thursday - Off
Friday - 4 Miles @ 9:49 m/m
Saturday - 5.02 Miles including 5k @ 27:06
Sunday - 6.38 Miles @ 9:40 m/m

Total - 29.42 Miles.

adrian522

Monday - 5 Miles @ 9:58 m/m
Tuesday - 5.38 Miles @ 9:56 m/m
Wednesday - 5.01 Miles @ 9:57 m/m
Thursday - 5.45 Miles @ 9:42 m/m
Friday - Off
Saturday - 5.1 Miles with 5K (26:47) included.
Sunday - 7.27 Miles @ 9:36 m/m

Total for the week is 33.24 Miles.

This week I just wanted to keep the progress going from the previous week, add a little more mileage and keep measuring progress on the Saturday 5K effort and finally add a mile to the Sunday run.

So I kept the midweek runs very easy, the Wednesday run seemed harder than the others for some reason.

The Saturday 5K wasn't as much as an all out effort as previous weeks and I felt pretty much in control for most of it.

The Sunday run was one mile longer than last week and was more of a steady effort than an easy run but felt ok all things considered.

adrian522

|Month|YTD
Days Running|25/31|144/244
Sessions|6|28
Long Runs|0|0
Commutes|0|0
Doubles|0|0
Parkruns|0|8
Volunteer|0|4
Races|0|3
PB's|0|0

Month|2013|2014|2015|2016|2017|2018|2019|2020
January|7|0|191|73.5|133.3|216.3|39|105.99
February|10|53|196|104.1|165.9|194.7|10.7|82.78
March|7|111|207.9|70|186.9|211.4|40.2|84.42
April|26|154|165.2|74.9|203.2|154.5|64.7|93.99
May|69|121|219.7|128.6|193|124|104.2|110.88
June|75|93|257.4|183.2|179.3|119|91.5|14.31
July|67|212|151.2|236.4|242.1|140.1|133.5|61.58
August|101|233|132.7|279.7|255.7|125.2|177|112.72
September|85|261|31.6|191.2|151.1|5|126.6|
October|4|179|63.6|106.6|167.4|35.5|170.2|
November|13|28|17.5|154.9|223.3|44|118.1|
December|6|163|21|151.3|213.7|95.2|26.64|
Total|471.2|1606.2|1654.8|1757.3|2318.6|1451.8|1104.8|667.1

adrian522

Day|Dist/Pace
Monday|5 Miles @ 9:46 m/m
Tuesday|6.1 Miles @ 9:35 m/m
Wednesday|5 Miles @ 9:50 m/m
Thursday|Off
Friday|6.2 Miles @ 9:43 m/m
Saturday|1 Mile WU/5K Hard/1 Mile C/D
Sunday|8 Miles @ 9:44 m/m|

Total for the week was 35.5 Miles.

More of the same this week. Trying to keep the runs easy. I went out too fast on the Tuesday run and really struggled with it, didn't feel easy at all. Same story on Wednesday, tried to start super slow but got away from me a little bit.

Decided to take Thursday off and Friday was much better, feeling properly easy.

Saturday I did the Tymon parkrun route in 24.42, which is a significant improvement over recent outings.

Sunday, 8 miles along the seafront in Galway was a bit of a struggle but not too bad.

Overall happy enough. I've taken this week off so I will probably back off on the running a bit and take a bit of a recovery week.

adrian522

Day|Dist/Pace
Monday|Cycle - 40.1 Miles
Tuesday|6 Miles @ 9:34
Wednesday|Cycle - 15 Miles
Thursday|6 Miles @ 9:38 m/m
Thursday|Cycle - 12 Miles
Friday|Cycle - 56 Miles
Saturday|5 miles @ 9:04 m/m
Sunday|7.2 Miles @ 9:07 m/m|

Total for the week was 24.2 Miles.

I was out west for the week. I spent a lot of time cycling so I've included the various cycles above.

The runs were all pretty easy effort, no sessions. The Saturday run over a hilly route turned into a harder run that I was intending and the effort was pretty high on the Sunday run too.

I had intended a bit of a recovery week including a step back on the long run, so overall happy enough with this week.

Back to reality this week though, where I have planned to attend a club session tomorrow and hopefully push out the long run by another bit on Sunday.

adrian522

Day|Dist/Pace
Monday|6.14 Miles @ 9:48 m/m
Tuesday|Club Session - 4 x 1K
Wednesday|6.15 Miles @ 9:17 m/m
Thursday|6.08 Miles @ 9:47 m/m
Friday|Off
Saturday|5K Tempo
Sunday|9.1 Miles @ 9:30 m/m

Total for the week was 40.1 Miles.

This week went well. I went down to the club for the first time since February. There really is nowhere to hide in this "pods" of 15. Anyway the session was due to be 6 x 1K plus 4 x 200m. I bailed after 4 x 1K. I was happy enough with my evenings work, didn't want to push it any further really.

The first one, I was led on the wrong route so ended up being longer, these are on grass also. The paces (in m/m) for the 4 were:

7:40/7:40/7:50/7:58 - 4 was probably enough looking at that.

I did the same session during lockdown when my paces were:

7:55/7:56/8:10/8:18 so some progress at least.

I then did my usual 5K tempo effort on Saturday. I'm thinking I may change this routine as not much point in doing the same thing every week and progress will inevitably stagnate.

My 5k times the last few weeks have been:

29:28/28:06/27:06/26:47/24:42/24:24

So good progress but diminishing returns.

I'm thinking one session per week is probably enough for the moment and I may be better with longer tempo intervals like 3 x 10 mins or similar than a 5K all out every week.

Finally the long run today I added one mile to the previous long run to bring me to 9 miles. It went well enough.

Next week I'll aim for 10 miles. At that point I won't be increasing the distance any further for a while. If I can stay at 40 miles per week with a 10 mile long run that will be enough to build a decent base off I think.

adrian522

Day|Dist/Pace
Monday|6.2 Miles @ 9:20 m/m
Tuesday|6.07 Miles @ 9:24 m/m
Wednesday|6.15 Miles @ 9:20 m/m
Thursday|Club Session - 6 Miles with 4 Miles Fartlek
Friday|Off
Saturday|6 Miles @ 9:22 m/m
Sunday|10 Miles @ 9:30 m/m

Total for the week was 40.52 Miles.

Another solid week. Keeping a consistent 6 miles on easy days. The effort is definitely getting easier. It does get a bit repetitive doing the same routes all the time.

I went to the club session on Thursday and felt the Fartlek session would be a good one. The weather was horrible and the session was done at about 75% of max effort if I'm honest.

I had a bit of an injury scare with the calf complaining during and after the session. Friday was a planned day off anyway and it seemed better by Saturday.

To play it safe I did the Saturday run on the grass in Bushy, talk about boring, the same loop for almost an hour.

Sunday, went to the Phoenix Park for the 10 mile loop, again mainly on soft surfaces. It went ok, calf and still not 100%, but got through the 10 miles without too much difficulty.

adrian522

|Month|YTD
Days Running|24/30|168/274
Sessions|5|33
Long Runs|1|1
Commutes|0|0
Doubles|0|0
Parkruns|0|8
Volunteer|0|4
Races|0|3
PB's|0|0

Month|2013|2014|2015|2016|2017|2018|2019|2020
January|7|0|191|73.5|133.3|216.3|39|105.99
February|10|53|196|104.1|165.9|194.7|10.7|82.78
March|7|111|207.9|70|186.9|211.4|40.2|84.42
April|26|154|165.2|74.9|203.2|154.5|64.7|93.99
May|69|121|219.7|128.6|193|124|104.2|110.88
June|75|93|257.4|183.2|179.3|119|91.5|14.31
July|67|212|151.2|236.4|242.1|140.1|133.5|61.58
August|101|233|132.7|279.7|255.7|125.2|177|112.72
September|85|261|31.6|191.2|151.1|5|126.6|154.29
October|4|179|63.6|106.6|167.4|35.5|170.2|
November|13|28|17.5|154.9|223.3|44|118.1|
December|6|163|21|151.3|213.7|95.2|26.64|
Total|471.2|1606.2|1654.8|1757.3|2318.6|1451.8|1104.8|821.4

Good month, pretty consistent. I gradually increased my mileage over a period of months to get up to 40 miles per week with a 10 mile long run.

Highest mileage since last October!

Obviously there are no races upcoming but I'm now at a point here I'll be adding in some club sessions, probably twice per week and try to keep to 40 MPW and 10 Miles on a Sunday.

adrian522

Day|Dist/Pace
Monday|6.05 Miles @ 9:32 m/m
Tuesday|Club Session - 5K Time Trial @ 23:53
Wednesday|6.19 Miles @ 9:33 m/m
Thursday|6.05 Miles @ 9:32 m/m
Friday|Off
Saturday|Club Session - 5 x (600m/200m)
Sunday|10.12 Miles @ 9:26 m/m

Total for the week is 41.37 Miles

The easy runs are becoming a lot more straightforward, where 6 miles is a kind of distance I feel I can cover without too much effort.

Tuesday Club session was a 5K Time trial along the Rathfarnham 5K route (and very close to the date that race is normally run on).

Anyway it was nice to get a session like this, its not quite a race but it at least generates something similar to the feeling of a race.

I went around in 23.53 which is the fastest 5K I've run since last October so I have to be pretty happy with that.

On Saturday I went to the club track session for the first time since 2018. Normally the track sessions would be finished by now but with Cross Country on hold for the moment we are doing another few weeks of track sessions.

It was nice to get it done. Times for the 600/200 were as follows:

2:35/0:41
2:33/0:45
2:32/0:41
2:36/0:46
2:33/0:43

The 600's were quite consistent, the 200's were a bit all over the map. It was a good session but looking at similar sessions a few years back shows how much work there is still to do.

I previously would have done around 0:37 for 200m and 2:15 for 600m!

adrian522

Day|Dist/Pace
Monday|6.3 Miles @ 9:11 m/m
Tuesday|Club Session - 4 x Bank Lap
Wednesday|5.1 Miles @ 9:18 m/m
Thursday|Club Session - Tempo Run
Friday|Off
Saturday|6.1 Miles @ 9:20 m/m
Sunday|11 Miles @ 9:20 m/m

Total for the week is 42.4 Miles

Last week I had 2 sessions and a long run. I also included strides on 2 days of my easy runs.

The Tuesday session is a loop, a little under one mile. I did 4 laps, hitting the following paces:

7:12/7:06/7:14/7:11

The lap has a fairly steep uphill finish. I was happy with how this went, good hard effort and no real drop off in pace over the 4 laps.

On Thursday I went down to the club tempo run. I started offf thinking I'd take it easy, or maybe run it steady and then do a track session on Saturday.
In the end I progressed to a full on tempo run so gave the track on Saturday a miss.

Tempo miles were as follows:

8:47/8:35/8:16/7:53/8:09/(8:14)

Sunday was the outer loop of the waterworks. I haven't run this in a long time. The hills around here make the run very tough. It was another hard run and pretty much wiped me out for the day.

The 9:20 pace was pretty quick for me given how tough the terrain is. Overall a good week training but need to keep an eye on recovery for for the next while.