Kids screaming in supermarkets - is it reaching breaking point?

Czarcasm

anncoates wrote: »

In your rush to blow your trumpet you're neglecting to differentiate between bad behaviour and ordinary toddler tantrums.

Even the best behaved kids throw a wobbler sometimes.

Plus teaching kids to behave is a cumulative process of positive instruction,and example us not rewarding bad behaviour and who's to say that that is not the process you're watching in a supermarket?

I was merely illustrating the point that you don't need to have children to understand anything about children.

I despised ferral little brats before I was ever a parent, but I didn't blame the children for their behaviour, I blamed the parents who failed to raise them properly to conduct themselves in the proper manner in public.

As for your assertion that I failed to make any distinction between toddlers and children throwing a tantrum, well toddlers behaviour wasn't relevant in the post I addressed, and sure, my son wasn't averse to throwing a tantrum in a Supermarket when he was a toddler, but then what I used do in that situation was grab him by his collar, march him out of the shop, leave my trolley with one of the shop assistants, and give my son a stern talking to outside, away from the situation.

Then when he'd calmed down, we could go back in and carry on shopping where we left off. The priority in any situation is my child, I couldn't give a ****e for the opinions of strangers or the looks they gave me when I'd frog march the child out of the shop tbh!

Ghost Buster

Thom Merrilin wrote: »

Is she though? It seems you can't even go shopping any time of the day now without being subjected to this crap. Anyone around in the 80's remember was it as bad?

And yet I have two kids and shop several times a week and don't think I can remember the last time I saw a kid having a complete melt down tantrum such as the OP describes, let alone four of em at the one time. Could it be something in the local water supply where you live?

DoozerT6

Look, it doesn't matter how well-behaved a child is 99% of the time, put a toddler in a shop surrounded by sweets and biscuits (think Superquinn bakery section!) and exciting foods and smells and tell them they can't have any, and chances are they'll throw a paddy. I can just imagine them thinking in their little heads: 'Why did you bring me here, then??! To torture me???'

I have seen and heard EPIC toddler meltdowns in supermarkets and shopping centres, to the point where I have genuine pity for the poor parents. Do I enjoy listening to it or glancing as I pass by? I sure as hell don't but the vast majority of the parents are not pyjama-clad Jacintas shouting at little Cody to get up off the floor, they are just normal mams and dads trying to get the weekly shop in while the little one writhes around shrieking at Volume 11 because they can't have Smarties. The same kid could be an angel at home.

Bottom line is I guess: littlies WILL have tantrums, and short of their parents gagging and hog-tying them (which I'm preeeeeety sure is illegal) the rest of us will just have to listen to them (and pity their parents

cfc.forever

I think you need to get a grip when it comes to this. You were a kid once and I'm pretty sure you/someone you know got very bored when shopping and when your bored out of your kid, you're just gonna mess around. Put it this way say for example you were a child and had to go church but you didn't like this, are you gonna sit still and silent during the whole cermony? In my opinion, you have to learn to deal with this as there is no way of getting out of it, if you confront the parents it will make things worse.

This is something that happens, if you don't want to put up with it don't go to aldi, I can't think of anything else.

Regards,
cfc.forever

collegeme

Czarcasm wrote: »

my son wasn't averse to throwing a tantrum in a Supermarket when he was a toddler, but then what I used do in that situation was grab him by his collar, march him out of the shop, leave my trolley with one of the shop assistants, and give my son a stern talking to outside, away from the situation.

Then when he'd calmed down, we could go back in and carry on shopping where we left off. The priority in any situation is my child, I couldn't give a ****e for the opinions of strangers or the looks they gave me when I'd frog march the child out of the shop tbh!

You did this to a toddler?. My youngest is 1.5 and at the tantrum stage. I think you are completely in the wrong to do that to a toddler. Maybe you should read toddler taming http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Toddler-Taming-Parents-Guide/dp/0091875285 where it explains that toddlers are not mini adults and can't be expected to behave like us. They don't comprehend it and they don't have any badness in them.
I understand what you did , if it were done to a pre-schooler but grabbing a toddler by the collar and marching him out of a shop to get a stern talking to ....is completely pointless at that age.

I really hope you have been mixed up an meant to say that it was an older child.

Czarcasm

collegeme wrote: »

You did this to a toddler?. My youngest is 1.5 and at the tantrum stage. I think you are completely in the wrong to do that to a toddler. Maybe you should read toddler taming http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Toddler-Taming-Parents-Guide/dp/0091875285 where it explains that toddlers are not mini adults and can't be expected to behave like us. They don't comprehend it and they don't have any badness in them.
I understand what you did , if it were done to a pre-schooler but grabbing a toddler by the collar and marching him out of a shop to get a stern talking to ....is completely pointless at that age.

I really hope you have been mixed up an meant to say that it was an older child.

With all due respect collegeme, I haven't time to be looking up "What to do when your toddler... whatever" in some "parenting" book whenever my child does anything.

If I were to depend on advice from somebody I've never heard of who wrote a book I've never heard of, there are literally shelves full of "proper parenting" books in Easons I could've bought, no doubt all of them offering a different opinion on every aspect of raising a child.

Sometimes you just have to go with your gut instinct, and in that moment, my gut instinct told me to remove the toddler from the situation, no matter how awkward it made other adults feel, and I know my own child better than anyone else, so at about two years of age, he was well able to understand the concept that just as he thought throwing a tantrum would get him sweets to shut him up, frog marching him outside and giving him a stern talking to was an even more effective method of letting him know throwing tantrums wasn't the way to get what he wanted.

That's why now at eight years of age when we go shopping, he has his shopping list written out on his phone, he takes responsibility for the trolley, knows how to select the best quality fruit and vegetables, and then goes to the self service checkout where he scans and packs the bags, and I'll take them while he leaves back the trolley, comes back and hands me the €2.

You're absolutely right though, children are not mini adults, there are many able bodied adults can't even do that much. I happen to treat every PERSON as an individual though, because if you've learned anything in life- it's that there's some things books CAN'T teach you, and that children are individuals.

If you follow a set template, you end up with what someone ELSE thinks your child SHOULD be, and the child LEARNS nothing about what it is to be an independent individual.

OP just throw on an ipod and get over it.

If/when you have kids yourself some day, you'll be more understanding.

collegeme

Czarcasm My opinion is that it was pointless to be behaving like that toward a toddler.
None of my kids (eldest10)have been brought up by a book but i don't see any harm in trying to gain an understanding of a toddlers mindset from reading a few pages of a book written by a professional. No harm done.

Oh and when my eldest was 8 , they could do that too.

Czarcasm

collegeme wrote: »

Czarcasm My opinion is that it was pointless to be behaving like that toward a toddler.
None of my kids (eldest10)have been brought up by a book but i don't see any harm in trying to gain an understanding of a toddlers mindset from reading a few pages of a book written by a professional.

Ohh I absolutely understand where you're coming from collegeme, but on the one hand you're saying toddlers don't understand these things, and then when it's pointed out to you that my child DID understand these rudimentary concepts (see I'm not averse to reading child development and psychology books, I just don't put much weight in them when it comes to raising a child to think for themselves as an independent individual as opposed to just a "my little johnny wouldn't do that" "angel" carbon copy template of what someone else thinks my child should be), and then on the other hand, you're telling me that YOU didn't refer to any books, but that now children DO understand these concepts (last post you said they didn't and it was pointless what I did, but you're admitting that children have a mindset indeed shows they HAVE the capability to understand these concepts).

The next time though you meet a professional parent, I'd appreciate you letting me know, because I've never heard of one.

No harm done

Absolutely, and I appreciate you giving a shìt, because nobody in the store that day gave a shìt, I could've been anybody walking out with a screaming child, and I've taking your opinion on board for future reference.

Oh and when my eldest was 8 , they could do that too.

Not a competition collegeme, not a competition.

clairefontaine

God this is the most depressingly judgemental thread I've read in a long time.

When kids tantrum, there could be a million reasons, from not enough sleep, to being spoiled brats, to pathology, to bereavement. Anything. Why is blame a default position.

simply simple

OP- kid have the right to behave like a kid and adults have a responsibility to behave like an adult.
Little secret of little stars- if they find out that you are getting irritated by their behavior, they would irritate you a little more

You mum never recalled you throwing these tantrums- may be she never took you with her for shopping, may be she was so afraid of your tantrums and thats how you are so ignorant of how kids are in their NATURAL form.

Lucyfur

For years, I lived my life by routine. Shopping was done on certain days, so as not to upset my son, and the general public. Routine made our little world tick along, until I decided we needed to break out.

Off we went to tesco, on a ''no shop day''. Well, the sky all but fell down.

We were in a shopping centre, outside tesco, next to a vodafone shop, and all hell broke loose cos my son wanted to look at the phones and touch the vodafone stickers on the doors and windows. I said no, so he threw himself on the floor ad had a good auld wobbler. I hunkered down, made sure he didn't split his head open, and prepared myself for letting the tantrum run its course.

An elderly lady stopped in front of us, ad sighed and tutted. She said ''that is disgraceful behaviour''. I sez, ''indeed, it is. Tutting at a child with special needs is disgraceful behaviour, and you should be ashamed of yourself''.

Fuk it. Breaking out of routine has done wonders for my monkey. And most of the ''breaking out'' has been done in supermarkets and I'm not even a little bit sorry :pac::D

goz83

Thom Merrilin wrote: »

Is she though? It seems you can't even go shopping any time of the day now without being subjected to this crap. Anyone around in the 80's remember was it as bad?

Jaysus, get over yourself. Yeah, she is lying, forgetful, or guilty. Kids have always thrown tantrums and always will. I am also 30 and i have 4 kids. If my 2 2 year old, or 6 Month old is having a whinge or tantrum, thats just life and you cant always stop them. Kids are not rational and hell, many adults aren't either. I wont leave the supermarket just because some self centred whinger cant deal with some child crying.

Now maybe i am being a bit harsh, but your tone is a bit strong for someone with no kids and therefore, no experience of how a parent shoukd be with their kids. The lady "ignoring" the child may have simply decided not to give attention to bad behaviour. Kids like attention <shocker> and if they cant get good attention, then bad will do.

I genuinely worry that you might not be able to cope if you ever become a parent. Have you considered it might be you scaring the little ones?

Demosthenese

Czarcasm wrote: »

That's why now at eight years of age when we go shopping, he has his shopping list written out on his phone, he takes responsibility for the trolley, knows how to select the best quality fruit and vegetables, and then goes to the self service checkout where he scans and packs the bags, and I'll take them while he leaves back the trolley, comes back and hands me the €2.

Had a little chuckle about this, thinking of my 8 year old with his own phone, shopping list, being able to select the best quality fruit and veg and packing the bags ... not a danger of that happening anytime soon but perhaps something to have fun letting him try. although he still aint getting a phone!

Have a 2yr old that is a nightmare to shop with quite often. Tantrums to beat the band. My wife gets a little more embarrassed than i do when he decides to throw a wobbler, but lets be honest here, as mentioned above thw whole situation changes when you have kids and realise that his is just the way it is. Strangely enough we just got back from the States at xmas and the reactions we got from the elderly over there made you very uncomfortable when the child was having an episode - compared to over here i gotta give kudos to the irish shoppers who generally are cool with it - cos we've all been there.

Ah kids ... can't tolerate them until you have em

goz83

true-or-false wrote: »

Kids aren't out of control.

But some kids are, and they're not that rare. And it is down to bad parenting. And I don't have to have a child to know that.

Having a child might make you exhausted, blessed, happy, or sad, but it doesn't give you magical powers of understanding, and it certainly doesn't give you the right to dismiss other people's experiences with children. If anyone really thinks that you need to be a parent to have any input on the crazy stuff people have seen parents do, then that someone needs to get over themselves.

Just a hunch. Not a parent, are you?

Ive never flown a helicopter, but hell, i seen it on tv loadsa times and sure its just a few buttons, so watch me flyeeeeeeeeeee CRASH

Czarcasm

Demosthenese wrote: »

Had a little chuckle about this, thinking of my 8 year old with his own phone, shopping list, being able to select the best quality fruit and veg and packing the bags ... not a danger of that happening anytime soon but perhaps something to have fun letting him try. although he still aint getting a phone!

Have a 2yr old that is a nightmare to shop with quite often. Tantrums to beat the band. My wife gets a little more embarrassed than i do when he decides to throw a wobbler, but lets be honest here, as mentioned above thw whole situation changes when you have kids and realise that his is just the way it is. Strangely enough we just got back from the States at xmas and the reactions we got from the elderly over there made you very uncomfortable when the child was having an episode - compared to over here i gotta give kudos to the irish shoppers who generally are cool with it - cos we've all been there.

Ah kids ... can't tolerate them until you have em

Aye, my wife though lets him get away with everything, he's an expert manipulator that has learned well how to play us off each other at this stage!

But yeah, he's had a phone since he was about six (I think we gave it to him for his birthday, nothing too fancy, a Samsung Galaxy Europa that cost us €50 at the time!), simply because he's grown up around IT so he's well used to using viber, skype, etc.

I can remember one time alright when he threw a strop at a polling station because he wasn't allowed vote, and my wife took him outside for a stern talking to, and an old woman passed and told my wife to leave him alone, etc. Bad move! My wife went thru her for a shortcut! :pac:

I still can't abide by him sometimes when he acts like a little troll-hard and drives me up the walls, but sure I wouldn't have him any other way!

Demosthenese

Very unusual to see someone say anything to an adult about their kids having a strop - usually only dirty looks - can't think of a bigger mistake! "Eh, excuse me but would you mind getting your child in order" !!! ... good job the people with no kids know well enough to keep their mouths shut and old post their real thoughts in cyberspace!

... we will get the last laugh when they finally see it rom the other side!

Czarcasm

goz83 wrote: »

Just a hunch. Not a parent, are you?

Ive never flown a helicopter, but hell, i seen it on tv loadsa times and sure its just a few buttons, so watch me flyeeeeeeeeeee CRASH

Just a hunch, but I'd say the poster has experience of being a child.

goz83

Czarcasm wrote: »

an old woman passed and told my wife to leave him alone, etc. Bad move! My wife went thru her for a shortcut! :pac:

Sometimes it would be a blessing if someone tried to tell me how i should or should not treat my kids. Man i would bitch slap anyone who tried. I would only hope it was the op on the receiving end and he would be lucky if it were me and not the wife. She is just mental :eek:

goz83

Czarcasm wrote: »

Just a hunch, but I'd say the poster has experience of being a child.

I doubt he remembers being around 2 years old, or even throwing tantrums as an older child. Plus, the first 2 lines were complete contradictions.

We all have some understanding about kids, as parents or not, but its not until you are a parent that you really understand it, because you have to live it.

I certainly believe i have far more to input on the subject than the op, as i have kids.

Czarcasm

goz83 wrote: »

I doubt he remembers being around 2 years old, or even throwing tantrums as an older child. Plus, the first 2 lines were complete contradictions.

We all have some understanding about kids, as parents or not, but its not until you are a parent that you really understand it, because you have to live it.

I certainly believe i have far more to input on the subject than the op, as i have kids.

Well I can't say I noticed any difference tbh, and your own experience of being a parent is only experience of being a parent to your own child. Your opinion takes no account of the fact that people have many relatives and friends who have children, not to mention foster and adoptive parents.

That's why I hate this whole "as a parent" nonsense. It doesn't lend any weight to your opinion whatsoever, but if you think it lends weight or validates your opinion in some way, sure, by all means carry on.

However you fail to recognise the fact that every individual is different and my child will not behave the same or think the same as your child, even if they were the same age, and that is because just like adults - no two children think the same.

OneArt

This thread has made me realise how little a problem this is for me. I've been living in Germany the last two years so it must be because Ireland is full of people who like to have kids. The birth rate here is quite low. And abortion is legal.

And I hate children.

I truly have chosen a paradise to live in...

Demosthenese

OneArt wrote: »

This thread has made me realise how little a problem this is for me. I've been living in Germany the last two years so it must be because Ireland is full of people who like to have kids. The birth rate here is quite low. And abortion is legal.

And I hate children.

I truly have chosen a paradise to live in...

Person who hates kids reading a thread on kids misbehaving ... denial :P ... hating kids - issues.

JustAThought

goz83 wrote: »

Sometimes it would be a blessing if someone tried to tell me how i should or should not treat my kids. Man i would bitch slap anyone who tried. I would only hope it was the op on the receiving end and he would be lucky if it were me and not the wife. She is just mental :eek:

Badly behaved parents with no boundaries. No hope for the children.

looking_around

We shop when they open up Sunday morning.. very few peeps around at 10.30am

I miss 24hr shopping..but partner doesn't like tesco's so >.<'

Sandwlch

What happened to leaving children at hope with their nanny or governess until they are old enough to behave properly in public?

A supermarket is no place for a child, and its not surprising that it provokes the little blighters into tantrums. The parents deserve what they get for bringing them there in the first place - but they have no right to inflict such a rumpus on the rest of us.

Its a cryng shame.

Gee_G

Sandwlch wrote: »

What happened to leaving children at hope with their nanny or governess until they are old enough to behave properly in public?

A supermarket is no place for a child, and its not surprising that it provokes the little blighters into tantrums. The parents deserve what they get for bringing them there in the first place - but they have no right to inflict such a rumpus on the rest of us.

Its a cryng shame.

Please tell me you're joking!

JustAThought

Gee_G wrote: »

Please tell me you're joking!

Tesco delivers.

Gee_G

JustAThought wrote: »

Tesco delivers.

Yep, I'm sure they do to your house too!
It'd save people like yourself from having to deal with such a rumpus!!:)

markfinn

Cartoon_Head wrote: »

What a 1st world problem if I ever heard one.

Maybe you should just never venture outside again OP.

If you want to deal with third world problems, please fell free to emigrate to Somalia.

As for the rest of us, quite happy to live in a developed nation now wracked with disease and war, yeah, we have 1st world problems. What of it?

cofy

Thom Merrilin wrote: »

Is she though? It seems you can't even go shopping any time of the day now without being subjected to this crap. Anyone around in the 80's remember was it as bad?

We had a shop as a family business, I can remember serving before you were born op, and yes it did happen they got a quick smack, nowadays if you do that social services would be called.

mal1

The fact that some parents seem to be offended by this thread (which raises a resonable issue in my opinion) suggests that it's touching a nerve for some. I do believe it is getting worse. It was always there but it slowly becoming worse.

Not a parent myself but I do belong to the human race so I think my opinion is as valid as the next. And since the question isn't related to the upbringing of a child but more to do with the general behaviour of kids in public then I believe that every shoppers opinion is as valid as the next.

Czarcasm

mal1 wrote: »

The fact that some parents seem to be offended by this thread (which raises a resonable issue in my opinion) suggests that it's touching a nerve for some. I do believe it is getting worse. It was always there but it slowly becoming worse.

Not a parent myself but I do belong to the human race so I think my opinion is as valid as the next. And since the question isn't related to the upbringing of a child but more to do with the general behaviour of kids in public then I believe that every shoppers opinion is as valid as the next.

"A. Parent" will be along now any minute to tell you that your opinion is invalid, yknow, one of those people who only has experience of raising their own children but think it makes them an expert authority on raising everyone elses "because THEY understand" :pac:

pebbles21

My 24 year old step-daughter still takes tantrums when she doesnt get what she wants...is this normal?

sunflower27

Thom Merrilin wrote: »

I'm 30 now and asked my mother was it like that when I was a young lad, and she said it wasn't so is it something modern causing this? Shovelling them with crap food so they are hyper? Not smacking children to discipline them any more? Lack of exercise?

Kids aren't smacked anymore, it is as simple as that.

goz83

JustAThought wrote: »

Badly behaved parents with no boundaries. No hope for the children.

OK. I'm 30. I havent been in a physical confrontation since before I became a parent 10 years ago and very few before then. In fact, i have very few confrontations in general. My point was that nobody has any right to try to tell me how i should be managing my kids if they are having a tantrum. Its not exactly a peaceful event in the very rare event it happens in public. This is also AH, so some things to be taken with a pinch if salt.

OneArt wrote: »

This thread has made me realise how little a problem this is for me. I've been living in Germany the last two years so it must be because Ireland is full of people who like to have kids. The birth rate here is quite low. And abortion is legal.

And I hate children.

I truly have chosen a paradise to live in...

Wait until you've nobody to run the place and the turks take over. But seriously, Germany is trying to fix the low birth rate aren't they? It will cause major problems in he near future if ze jarmans cant turn off their tv.

Sandwlch wrote: »

What happened to leaving children at hope with their nanny or governess until they are old enough to behave properly in public?

A supermarket is no place for a child, and its not surprising that it provokes the little blighters into tantrums. The parents deserve what they get for bringing them there in the first place - but they have no right to inflict such a rumpus on the rest of us.

Its a cryng shame.

Some kids dont have grand parents alive. Mine are lucky enough to have all of them, but they have their own lives to live and should not be used as a drop off point of convenience. Plus, working parents want to enjoy the time they have with their kids, because that might only be an hour or two before they have to go to bed. I will take an hour with my child throwing a tantrum rather than not see them with eyes open until the weekend.

We have no right to inflict a rumpus on others? It might be best you stay in doors. Or would you prefer all kids were sent to an island until they are 18? This is what i am talking about when i say a non parent really doesn't get it. I am not saying that your opinion is not valid, but it certainly isnt as valid as a parents with experience, good will and a heart.

Czarcasm wrote: »

"A. Parent" will be along now any minute to tell you that your opinion is invalid, yknow, one of those people who only has experience of raising their own children but think it makes them an expert authority on raising everyone elses "because THEY understand" :pac:

Maybe one will be. I have 4 kids aged 6 months, 2 and a half, 6 and 10. I also have 6 nephews and nieces and many friends and extended family with kids. Every child is different, i agree with your point on that. But i disagree with your point that parents have no more understanding than some 30 year old who cant understand why parents would bring their toddlers to the supermarket. Everyone has a valid opinion, but if you were take advice about a child, would you honestly hold the opinion of a non parent over a parent? Now i get that you might be the type that knows it all already and that nobody knows your child like you do, but i'm asking a genuine question. Do you really believe that having kids gives the parents opinion no more weight than that of someone with no kids? Because imho, having been a kid and having nephews and nieces is very different from having them yourself and gave me an improved understanding, even though i thought i knew it all before i was a parent.

mentalist101

sunflower27 wrote: »

Kids aren't smacked anymore, it is as simple as that.

If I even thought of acting up in the shops, My Mam gave me the look which said my butt was gonna be on fire for days so I didn't bother, but kids nowadays don't have that fear cos they are never smacked.

goz83

sunflower27 wrote: »

Kids aren't smacked anymore, it is as simple as that.

As mentioned above, i have a 6 and 10 year old. I have never once smacked them and have only ever raised my tone, rather than the volume of my voice to correct them. I might firmly (not roughly) grab them by the wrist and come down to their level and make eye contact before making my point and giving a warning (no gameboy, barbie, whatever). Hitting is never necessary. Constantly being on the ball and actually doing what you say/threaten/warn is the key to teaching behaviour.

Everyone has a different idea about what is too much or too little. 3 years ago i had a horrible experience with my now 6 year old. She was misbehaving at a museum. Now thats not a place to inflict tantrums on people, so i warned her and then removed her from the museum. She was really testing the boundaries and i was being what i still believe to be a responsible and fair parent. No hitting. I reached car and a senior garda came running up to me, panting away that i was causing undue stress on the child. His little minion soon followed and was demanding i prove the child was mine. I mean FFS, surely they had seen a child throwing a tantrum before? I just wasn't the type to shove sweets into my childs mouth to shut them up.i asked if he had kids and if so, had they ever had a tantrum in public. He nodded and i showed him the wallpaper on my phone to show me and the kids and he then left, but his muppet junior stayed glaring. "Thats disgraceful upsetting your child like that" he spat. I said, "you obviously have none of your own, so you must know what your talking about". He was a cheeky fecker. My wife returned and said the sergeant had stopped her outside the museum (recognising my older child from the photo) and asked her to apologise to me on his behalf. Fair play to him and it shows that with a little reflection and hindsight, people can and do see sense, especially those with similar experience (a fellow parent and possibly grand parent at that stage). Cant say the same for the snot nosed waster who then disappeared after hearing what my wife said.

Glad that was my worst experience. It was stressful, embarrassing and very challenging. It would have been easier to give her sweets when she started to act up, but in the long run, my approach has paid off. For the most part, my wife is the same, if not a little loud sometimes and we always get comments on how happy and well behaved our kids are (until they hear the 2year old screaming at the top of his lungs) :pac:

Toddlers throwing tantrums is normal and should be ignored whenever possible. When they are 3 and older, especially when they are of school going age, a tantrum needs to be dealt with and is unacceptable.

mal1

goz83 wrote: »

Maybe one will be. I have 4 kids aged 6 months, 2 and a half, 6 and 10. I also have 6 nephews and nieces and many friends and extended family with kids. Every child is different, i agree with your point on that. But i disagree with your point that parents have no more understanding than some 30 year old who cant understand why parents would bring their toddlers to the supermarket. Everyone has a valid opinion, but if you were take advice about a child, would you honestly hold the opinion of a non parent over a parent? Now i get that you might be the type that knows it all already and that nobody knows your child like you do, but i'm asking a genuine question. Do you really believe that having kids gives the parents opinion no more weight than that of someone with no kids? Because imho, having been a kid and having nephews and nieces is very different from having them yourself and gave me an improved understanding, even though i thought i knew it all before i was a parent.

I think the point is that anyone can have an opinion about whether kids are more badly behaved now then back 20-30 odd years ago. You don't have to be a parent and it adds no more weight to your opinion if you are. It's like asking if traffic is faster nowadays and saying that becasue you're a mechanic your opinion is more valid.

Czarcasm

goz83 wrote: »

Everyone has a valid opinion, but if you were take advice about a child, would you honestly hold the opinion of a non parent over a parent? Now i get that you might be the type that knows it all already and that nobody knows your child like you do, but i'm asking a genuine question.

I know you're asking a genuine question, so I'll give you a genuine answer.

I always consider the source. There are some really shìtty parents that don't know their àrse from their elbow when it comes to raising children, and they let them off to raise themselves, and they don't give a crap about what their children get up to, because they are selfish and ignorant and only see their children as a burden; and then there are the decent people that aren't parents but they try and take care of the children of the shìtty parents, because they see that the children are more than just the possessions of the parents, they are human beings first and foremost.

Those are NOT extreme examples, they are an all too common reality, so to suggest that someone doesn't understand children because they didn't pop one from between their thighs yet? Yeah, I'd consider the opinion of the PERSON first and foremost, regardless of the fact whether they're a parent or not.

Do you really believe that having kids gives the parents opinion no more weight than that of someone with no kids? Because imho, having been a kid and having nephews and nieces is very different from having them yourself and gave me an improved understanding, even though i thought i knew it all before i was a parent.

I have a gammy hip. Does that make me an expert authority on gammy hips over my consultant who sees thousands of gammy hips in a year but doesn't have a gammy hip himself?

See I NEVER think I know it all, because then I would be closing myself off to learning. I always said I wanted my son surrounded by good PEOPLE, because good PEOPLE set a better example and have more influence on a child that doesn't give a fiddlers whether the person is a parent or not.

Would I take the advice of somebody who doesn't have children over the advice of someone who has children? It depends on a hell of a lot more than just whether they're a parent or not IMO, and being a parent gives you no better understanding of human behaviour than a person who isn't a parent.

goz83

Czarcasm wrote: »

I know you're asking a genuine question, so I'll give you a genuine answer.

I always consider the source. There are some really shìtty parents that don't know their àrse from their elbow when it comes to raising children, and they let them off to raise themselves, and they don't give a crap about what their children get up to, because they are selfish and ignorant and only see their children as a burden; and then there are the decent people that aren't parents but they try and take care of the children of the shìtty parents, because they see that the children are more than just the possessions of the parents, they are human beings first and foremost.

Those are NOT extreme examples, they are an all too common reality, so to suggest that someone doesn't understand children because they didn't pop one from between their thighs yet? Yeah, I'd consider the opinion of the PERSON first and foremost, regardless of the fact whether they're a parent or not.





I have a gammy hip. Does that make me an expert authority on gammy hips over my consultant who sees thousands of gammy hips in a year but doesn't have a gammy hip himself?

See I NEVER think I know it all, because then I would be closing myself off to learning. I always said I wanted my son surrounded by good PEOPLE, because good PEOPLE set a better example and have more influence on a child that doesn't give a fiddlers whether the person is a parent or not.

Would I take the advice of somebody who doesn't have children over the advice of someone who has children? It depends on a hell of a lot more than just whether they're a parent or not IMO, and being a parent gives you no better understanding of human behaviour than a person who isn't a parent.

I agree with you to a point. It really does depend on the person and yes, there are some people who happen to have kids, but i wouldn't consider some of them to be parents at all. To me, a parent is a person actively involved in their kids development and wants to keep them safe. Some just pop them out, name them and then claim the allowance while other people are left looking after their kids.

If you had a gammy hip, no it would give you more knowledge than a professional, but it would give you more knowledge and experience of gammy hips than the average person. I would certainly take the advice of a child expert (parent or not) over the opinion of the average person without kids. And i would make my judgement from person to person. My father just had both his hips replaced. He has more knowledge and experience of gammy hips than i do and i consider myself to be a knowledgeable person.

@Mal1
making the traffic comparison with a mechanic. Thats not really a comparative parallel with my earlier point. A mechanic fixes cars. Doesn't mean he has any driving experience at all (though thats unlikely). A better, similar comparison would be to compare a passenger, who holds no license and may have sat behind the wheel of a car briefly, to someone who has a license and actually drives. One can watch while the other is actually experienced.

LittleFox

You finish your shopping In about half an hour or so its not that long a time to be "inconvenienced" by screaming children. I work part time in a local shop while in college we see and hear it all. Ideally a parent removes the child from the situation but I have to applaud those patents who ignore the tantrum its far better than placating the child with sweets . Those given the sweets we see screaming day in and day out
as it works for them

mal1

goz83 wrote: »

I agree with you to a point. It really does depend on the person and yes, there are some people who happen to have kids, but i wouldn't consider some of them to be parents at all. To me, a parent is a person actively involved in their kids development and wants to keep them safe. Some just pop them out, name them and then claim the allowance while other people are left looking after their kids.

If you had a gammy hip, no it would give you more knowledge than a professional, but it would give you more knowledge and experience of gammy hips than the average person. I would certainly take the advice of a child expert (parent or not) over the opinion of the average person without kids. And i would make my judgement from person to person. My father just had both his hips replaced. He has more knowledge and experience of gammy hips than i do and i consider myself to be a knowledgeable person.

@Mal1
making the traffic comparison with a mechanic. Thats not really a comparative parallel with my earlier point. A mechanic fixes cars. Doesn't mean he has any driving experience at all (though thats unlikely). A better, similar comparison would be to compare a passenger, who holds no license and may have sat behind the wheel of a car briefly, to someone who has a license and actually drives. One can watch while the other is actually experienced.

But the question relates to a comparison regarding the general behaviour of kids. The answer is based on the experience of being in public and observing, it's not a judgement or opinion on parenting skills hence being a parent holds no extra value.

hollster2

I know myself its embarrasing when my kids scream when im out shopping but I get them under control. I do see some kids out of control but whats to say theyve not got personal problems.

Example: my nephew has a sensory disorder/ mild aspergers and he get meltdowns when there out he could just lose control. My sister inlaw was out one day shopping with him and he had one she was trying to calm him down. as some people probably know your not to shout at kids with this problem.

This ignorant woman came along with her pregnant daughter staring and huffing like he was bold the daughter was embarressed by her mothers reaction.

When it comes to her kids my sister inlaw in very protective mostly though for my nephew so she turned around and said I hope your grandchild is healthy and has no problems god bless them unlike my son and told her what he had she just walked away bright red.

I used to judge before I found about my nephew not again I wont.

sportloto86

I have kids. They were toddlers at some stage. I still side with OP and other unpopular posters of this thread. This is going from bad to worse and not only in supermarkets. Wife and me abandoned idea of going for a cup of quiet coffee on a weekends due to the same - someone else's precious little ones. In supermarket I have an option to go to the different department for window shopping, or stop dead in my track and wait for ever proud, well child psychology read and ignoring their special ones tantrums parent, to move on, while I read a description and instruction on a dozen of eggs. What do I suppose to do in a cafe? Put the earphones on and blast my eardrums in?
This is a lack of respect for other people and their needs. Society has rules. Some of them change to make us better society, others degrade and make us worse.
You saying that 2 years old does not understand right and wrong. I agree. But you do, don't you? So respect others and take your sweet one outside and ignore them until he/she is calm. Or say NO when they throwing food and drink around cafeteria (it's not going to clean up itself), or kicking someone's seat on the plane /cinema. People not always ask you to restrain you child, but that does not mean they willing to participate in your child rising and hoping he / she will grow up decent human being experiment. Respect others and they will do the same.

Ann22

Children throw tantrums, that's just the way it is i suppose. It doesn't really bother me when it's clear the parents are trying to calm them. It does bother me however when the screaming child is ignored.

Twice I've been shoppng when newborn babies have been screaming the whole time I was in the supermarket. I found it unbearable to listen to. Both times the mothers were African. They were very chilled out, took their times picking their groceries, they both had other kids with them that seemed to be relaxed about it too whereas My head was exploding.

A newborn baby's cry is one of the most stressful things to listen to. They've evolved this way to ensure the best chances of someone to help them. I'm not criticising the women before I'm accused of being racist. Maybe being so relaxed will make a more relaxed child? Maybe picking the child up would do no good, I've personal experience of this:eek:.

I've had two very colicky babies and couldn't take them out shopping at all because of the screaming fits that no amount of nursing would help. I was embarrassed and upset when I did risk taking them out in their prams and they were screaming. I had to desert my messages and leave:(.

Ciarabear

Tantrum-throwing children will never understand right from wrong if they aren't taught it from their parents

goz83

mal1 wrote: »

But the question relates to a comparison regarding the general behaviour of kids. The answer is based on the experience of being in public and observing, it's not a judgement or opinion on parenting skills hence being a parent holds no extra value.

I think my point about your post is relevant, as I do not believe your comparison made sense, but maybe I just missed something. And I disagree that being a parent adds no more value. I would however reiterate the fact that some non-parents would know better than some of the people who shouldn't have kids at all. But as a whole, a person who becomes a parent (not just one who happens to have a child, or have fathered one) is, imo, better equipped and more knowledgeable than if they were not a parent. So, i'm not saying that because I am a parent, I know more about child behaviour than every person without kids.

Ann22 wrote: »

Children throw tantrums, that's just the way it is i suppose. It doesn't really bother me when it's clear the parents are trying to calm them. It does bother me however when the screaming child is ignored.

You may not like it, but it's the most effective way of getting toddlers (not babies, or older kids) to grow out of the tantrum throwing. Give them attention at that time and you're asking for trouble to last a lot longer. If they are throwing, or hitting, that's different, but if it's just a tantrum and nobody is getting hurt beyond a sore head, then they should be left to it.

Ann22 wrote: »

Twice I've been shoppng when newborn babies have been screaming the whole time I was in the supermarket. I found it unbearable to listen to. Both times the mothers were African. They were very chilled out, took their times picking their groceries, they both had other kids with them that seemed to be relaxed about it too whereas My head was exploding.

A newborn baby's cry is one of the most stressful things to listen to. They've evolved this way to ensure the best chances of someone to help them. I'm not criticising the women before I'm accused of being racist. Maybe being so relaxed will make a more relaxed child? Maybe picking the child up would do no good, I've personal experience of this:eek:.

I've had two very colicky babies and couldn't take them out shopping at all because of the screaming fits that no amount of nursing would help. I was embarrassed and upset when I did risk taking them out in their prams and they were screaming. I had to desert my messages and leave:(.

Newborns really should be comforted if very distressed and some cultures are just more relaxed about it I suppose. Its also possible that they were colicky, but its less likely that is the real reason. I have witnessed this many times before too. Other cultures beat the **** out of their toddlers if they act up. You reap what you sow.

handlemaster

Thom Merrilin wrote: »

This is something that's really starting to bother me, I've even tried shopping at different times etc but to no avail.

A particularly bad incident occurred last Monday evening in my local Aldi. Usually I just walk to another part of the supermarket and carry on my shopping but this time there was around 4 different sets of screaming brats all scattered throughout various locations in the supermarket so there was no getting away from them. Jumping into and out of trolleys and everything. It was those loud piercing screams you can't ignore.

I work Mon-Fri 9-5 so shopping is confined to evenings and weekends. It is so distracting and irritating though listening to that crap when trying to shop and while some parents tried to console the little sh1tes, others just carried on shopping oblivious to the annoyance their kids were causing to the shoppers. I don't have children but if I did and they carried on like that, I'd probably leave the shop with them and come back another time or come back at a time when alone.

To top off the horrible experience that day, there was a queue of about 5 people at the checkout and this little brat in front of me (around 4 years old) was screaming high pitch at the top of his voice at his mother to buy him some kind of sweets or something he picked up near the checkout. She just ignored him as if he didn't exist and the brat started throwing the packet at her and hitting her and shouting, crying more.

I'm 30 now and asked my mother was it like that when I was a young lad, and she said it wasn't so is it something modern causing this? Shovelling them with crap food so they are hyper? Not smacking children to discipline them any more? Lack of exercise?

Also does this bother other people as much as it bothers me?

Wait until you have your own and youll be saying your kids are the best in the world.... they always are !!!

JustAThought

It dosn't happen in third world countries, nor in civilised European cities. Society has rules & norms that are
Acceptable and unacceptable. But I suppose it's A Bit Like the scangers out in pyjamas. Everyone Can see it except them And their ilk.