Why do the Irish make such a big deal out of approaching members of the opposite sex?

Femme_Fatale

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Women do the 1-10 scale and so do men, also associating it with intelligence is just a lousy condescending argument really.

It's just for a laugh and the last few times I've been out in a club or pub I've overheard it from both women and men.

It does come across thick as sh1t to decide "Right, I'm going to comment on the physical appearance of every person of the opposite sex I see" - I don't care whether that's condescending of me or not. And I have never overheard it from either gender. I wish people wouldn't imply it's the norm, it isn't.
Maybe it's only in places like Coppers though that that stuff goes on. Thankfully there are many other types of bar besides a meat market.

It's not jokey - it's "laddish"/"ladette" tripe.

jigglypuffstuff

Boofle wrote: »

Fair enough pone but do you have any suggtions as to why all these Irish women are such absolute wagons to men when approached? Do you not think that they have turned bitter and nasty as a result of having to endure said men being rather nasty to them?

I do and if you'll read over my post its one of the first things i've said.

As a matter of fact I personally believe if it was not for the amount of overly promiscous women here in ireland I think men would have no choice but to change their ways. Because there is always access to sex somewhere there attitude will largely remain the same in my eyes.

With that being said there were always nasty women out there, but lately the amount from what ive seen is pretty high.

eireannBEAR

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I have never overheard it from either gender. I wish people wouldn't imply it's the norm, it isn't.
Maybe it's only in places like Coppers though that that stuff goes on. Thankfully there are many other types of bar besides a meat market.

It's not jokey - it's "laddish"/"ladette" tripe.

you never heard of the rating scale of looks... you madam are either 60 or you just dont get out much.

you obviously live an incredibly sheltered life.

Czarcasm

buried wrote: »

But a lot of posters here are correct, these places ain't exactly the best environment to meet a nice lady that you will get along with. I see it all the time. Not to say there is 'none' in these places but chances of meeting one in these places is slim IMO. And the ones that do act in a disgraceful manner, to hell with em, and be glad and thankfull you wont be with them anyways!

You see it "all the time", because you're LOOKING for it, with your own two sober eyes, etc. It's called "confirmation bias".

I mean, how many patrons of both sexes are there in there venues - 100? 500? 1,000+? And yet all you see is merely a handful of maybe five to ten women that fit in with your own biased view.

You certainly can't claim to have seen anything like fifty of these occurences in one eight hour gig between the bar and the club in any venue up and down the country. So we'll say if you were to visit 100 venues up and down the country, and each of these venues held 100+ people, that's at least 10,000 people you'll have been able to observe, yet the best you can do is pick out the handful of women that don't float your boat.

Well done.

lufties

buried wrote: »

I hear what Weathering is saying, but my only advice is to not get worked up by it. I'm not the same age or generation as him but I do a lot of part-time work in these late bars and clubs throughout the country and I see it in every single place, especially in his age group. A good sub-section of Women in these places 18 - 25 who think they are some make of local village "celebrity", acting all stuck up and going out of their way in acting nasty and harsh to the guys around them. I see it all the time, soberly too. And if some people here shout "OMG thats pure generalisationininn" well I'm sorry people but that is what I actually see in my own actual existence with my own two sober adult eyes every night in these places around the land so I cant really question it can I? I may aswell start questioning "is the sky actually blue????"

And Weathering is completely in his right to mention and describe it too if that is what he is experiencing, just because it makes some people here 'uncomfortable' with his description of the same, whats he supposed to do - lie and claim every single woman in the country is some classy, mannerly lady that never does any wrong to make some posters in here feel 'comfortable' and not dent their immovable beliefs???

Only last night, I sadly and inadvertently encountered it myself, I had to move some equipment through the club floor and I had to gently tap a young woman on the shoulder to get her to move out of the way to get through without her getting hurt. The second I did this, she immediately and typically turned her facial features and body language into a resemblance of some sort of disgusted hybrid pitbull wasp in a miniskirt that was under attack. I laughed my ass off and asked her to move a bit out of the way please. She then began to look confused and upset she wasn't actually getting the attention she seemed so disgusted to be getting a moment before!

But a lot of posters here are correct, these places ain't exactly the best environment to meet a nice lady that you will get along with. I see it all the time. Not to say there is 'none' in these places but chances of meeting one in these places is slim IMO. And the ones that do act in a disgraceful manner, to hell with em, and be glad and thankfull you wont be with them anyways!

excellent post! so things haven't changed then, sure when they are influenced by a cocktail of lady gaga, beyonce and rihanna, what would you expect..i dont like to generalise but the attention seeking little miss princesses are everwhere, maybe if guys boycotted night clubs things might change

Singularity 1

Czarcasm wrote: »

I thought we might be getting somewhere when I read your first paragraph, but then, you came out with that bolded bit. Will you PLEASE, for your own sake, stop with that "PC Brigade" nonsense, there simply ISN'T one on AH, that's in your head tbh. By all means express your opinion, but how people will perceive it will depend on how you express it.





Are you crazy? Start my own thread? I wouldn't be about sticking my head above the parapet like that now at all at all, lol :pac:

No but seriously though, it's very easy to start a thread on this issue and have a discussion like this, if you're prepared to be at least a bit mature about it. Nothing to do with being "PC", but when you use juvenile and worn out cliches like that, people tend to take your opinion less seriously.

They take it even less seriously again then when you're unwilling to hear that you might actually be wrong in your assessment, that your opinion has been colored by your own personal perspective, and rather limited experience with the opposite sex.

I don't see how I wasn't mature about it tbh. I think you were a bit immature with your blueball group remark in fairness, so you've some neck saying I'm not mature lol. Your responses are usually very long and pedantic too, making arguments out of nothing.

buried

Czarcasm wrote: »

You see it "all the time", because you're LOOKING for it, with your own two sober eyes, etc. It's called "confirmation bias".

Its also called "reality". Try it some time and calm down man.

Table Top Joe

pone2012 wrote: »

As a matter of fact I personally believe if it was not for the amount of overly promiscous women here in ireland I think men would have no choice but to change their ways. Because there is always access to sex somewhere there attitude will largely remain the same in my eyes.
.

Whats "overly promiscuous"?......your last post made a lot of sense I thought, this one....not so much

The Backwards Man

This thread needs euthanising.

Table Top Joe

The Backwards Man wrote: »

This thread needs euthanising.

Why do people call for threads to be locked?? is someone forcing you to keep coming back? if you don't like it go away,its not rocket science


Im sure im not the only one who looks forward to a definition of "overly promiscuous"

Czarcasm

pone2012 wrote: »

I do and if you'll read over my post its one of the first things i've said.

As a matter of fact I personally believe if it was not for the amount of overly promiscous women here in ireland I think men would have no choice but to change their ways. Because there is always access to sex somewhere there attitude will largely remain the same in my eyes.

With that being said there were always nasty women out there, but lately the amount from what ive seen is pretty high.

Soo, on the one hand the fact that men can't talk to women is women's fault because they're too stuck up with their high standards, they're not sexually open minded due to being influenced by the catholic church, yada yada, etc, and on the other hand, it's STILL women's fault because women are too promiscuous?


Seriously?

eireannBEAR

Table Top Joe wrote: »

Why do people call for threads to be locked?? is someone forcing you to keep coming back? if you don't like it go away,its not rocket science


Im sure im not the only one who looks forward to a definition of "overly promiscuous"

he wants to kill the thread as he feels like his opinions on the matter are not respected and meaningless,he is correct but still that does not give him the right to seek the closure of this thread. he may be an ego maniac i just dont know.

Table Top Joe

eireannBEAR wrote: »

he wants to kill the thread as he feels like his opinions on the matter are not respected and meaningless,he is correct but still that does not give him the right to seek the closure of this thread. he may be an ego maniac i just dont know.

I reckon its the same evil bastard who makes people who hate Facebook use it make them keep checking threads they don't like anymore too *looks off into the distance*...bastard

The Backwards Man

eireannBEAR wrote: »

he wants to kill the thread as he feels like his opinions on the matter are not respected and meaningless,he is correct but still that does not give him the right to seek the closure of this thread. he may be an ego maniac i just dont know.

Na, I just hate to see people digging bigger holes for themselves when they should have had the shovels taken off them a long time ago.

Czarcasm

Singularity 1 wrote: »

I don't see how I wasn't mature about it tbh. I think you were a bit immature with your blueball group remark in fairness, so you've some neck saying I'm not mature lol. Your responses are usually very long and pedantic too, making arguments out of nothing.

I'll keep this one short for you then -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSHaCzb3yYk

markomuscle

for me it is because women are simply fearsome creatures

eireannBEAR

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Na, I just hate to see people digging bigger holes for themselves when they should have had the shovels taken off them a long time ago.

uh terrible....it wasnt worth posting TBH.

Femme_Fatale

I'm not 60, I get out plenty - I just hang around with non vapid people and go to non sh1t meat-market places!

buried wrote: »

I hear what Weathering is saying, but my only advice is to not get worked up by it. I'm not the same age or generation as him but I do a lot of part-time work in these late bars and clubs throughout the country and I see it in every single place, especially in his age group. A good sub-section of Women in these places 18 - 25 who think they are some make of local village "celebrity", acting all stuck up and going out of their way in acting nasty and harsh to the guys around them. I see it all the time, soberly too. And if some people here shout "OMG thats pure generalisationininn" well I'm sorry people but that is what I actually see in my own actual existence with my own two sober adult eyes every night in these places around the land so I cant really question it can I? I may aswell start questioning "is the sky actually blue????"

And Weathering is completely in his right to mention and describe it too if that is what he is experiencing, just because it makes some people here 'uncomfortable' with his description of the same, whats he supposed to do - lie and claim every single woman in the country is some classy, mannerly lady that never does any wrong to make some posters in here feel 'comfortable' and not dent their immovable beliefs???

Why resort to a stupid extreme? Nobody said he has to say the above.

What COULD be done - difficult and all as it may be for some though - is not talk about this phenomenon (and I believe you - I know it happens a lot) in terms of being something that applies to all Irish women, of all ages, in all areas of Ireland, who attend all types of establishment.

Singularity 1

Czarcasm wrote: »

I'll keep this one short for you then -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSHaCzb3yYk

Thank you. Perhaps a quick video would be sufficient in future.

Pug160

Meh, these threads usually turn ugly so there's not much point getting too involved.

Here's a thought though: if some girls have this perceived ''power'', they only have it because you are giving them the power in your own head. In reality they have very little power, except the power to put a dent in the ego, which is hurtful if you're insecure. But real power? Nah, you're giving them it.

Table Top Joe

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Na, I just hate to see people digging bigger holes for themselves when they should have had the shovels taken off them a long time ago.

Its a discussion forum,i really wouldn't worry,in the grand scheme of things an all....


Anyway,this "overly promiscuous" thing is gonna be good,can feel it in my water

Table Top Joe

Pug160 wrote: »

Meh, these threads usually turn ugly so there's not much point getting too involved.

Here's a thought though: if some girls have this perceived ''power'', they only have it because you are giving them the power in your own head. In reality they have very little power, except the power to put a dent in the ego, which is hurtful if you're insecure. But real power? Nah, you're giving them it.

Very disappointing......

Czarcasm

buried wrote: »

Its also called "reality". Try it some time and calm down man.

It's called skewed perception of "reality". Try altering your perception of "reality" some time and grow up, man.

Singularity 1

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I'm not 60, I get out plenty - I just hang around with non vapid people and go to non sh1t meat-market places!

Ohh please tell me where these non meat-market places are?

Legs.Eleven

Singularity 1 wrote: »

Ohh please tell me where these non meat-market places are?

I'm home visiting Dublin right now and am about to head out in Dublin city. I don't even live in this country anymore and I can reel off the names of at least 50 places that aren't. Even when I was in my early twenties I managed to avoid (without any difficulty) places like that. Men moan about these places yet continue to go back. You'd think yous would learn after all this time. It's hardly difficult ffs.

Lams

lufties wrote: »

excellent post! so things haven't changed then, sure when they are influenced by a cocktail of lady gaga, beyonce and rihanna, what would you expect..i dont like to generalise but the attention seeking little miss princesses are everwhere, maybe if guys boycotted night clubs things might change

So what! Let them be attention seeking little princesses. Focus on enjoying your own night. People who need constant validation from the opposite sex ( being delighted to be approached, but pretending to be disgusted) generally aren't happy people. Let them wallow in their misery until they lose the obsession with their ego. You'll generally find these women are extra bitchy to women too as they despise other women getting attention.

Singularity 1

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I'm home visiting Dublin right now and am about to head out in Dublin city. I don't even live in this country anymore and I can reel off the names of at least 50 places that aren't. Even when I was in my early twenties I managed to avoid (without any difficulty) places like that. Men moan about these places yet continue to go back. You'd think yous would learn after all this time. It's hardly difficult ffs.

Well I'm in the shticks so my options are limited. It is what you make of it too though. Some people could tell you a place is great, only for you to think its an awful dive.

buried

Czarcasm wrote: »

It's called skewed perception of "reality". Try altering your perception of "reality" some time and grow up, man.

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSHaCzb3yYk

[/QUOTE]

Femme_Fatale

Singularity 1 wrote: »

Ohh please tell me where these non meat-market places are?

Nightclubs that just play chart sh1t and look like stripclubs are where you'll be dealing with those kind of women.
Pubs that play rock/trad/funk and aren't all about how dolled-up their patrons are, tend to have nicer, more mature clientele.

Czarcasm

Pug160 wrote: »

Meh, these threads usually turn ugly so there's not much point getting too involved.

Well fcuk ya Pug, you just shat all over my potential for a Royal Flush (the handful of extremist posters that try to say all women are this, that and the other because of their colored perception and limited experience). I was in all honestly expecting you along earlier in the thread, and then when you DID enter the discussion, you come out with this perfectly reasonable and rather insightful statement -


Here's a thought though: if some girls have this perceived ''power'', they only have it because you are giving them the power in your own head. In reality they have very little power, except the power to put a dent in the ego, which is hurtful if you're insecure. But real power? Nah, you're giving them it.[/quote]


It's like I was saying earlier, as much as people sometimes annoy me, I still entertain them because they never cease to surprise me

jigglypuffstuff

Table Top Joe wrote: »

Whats "overly promiscuous"?......your last post made a lot of sense I thought, this one....not so much

From personal experience ( and this is just personal as ive stated numerous times) ive noticed that a lot guys (not all) getting rejected tend to go towards the easier women when they are left with no viable option but go home and masturbate. Now lets just imagine that there were no easy options. Then what?


I wouldnt say this only for ive seen it happen in many different circles of people. But again this is personal experience. It does not for one second mean im correct

Czarcasm wrote: »

Soo, on the one hand the fact that men can't talk to women is women's fault because they're too stuck up with their high standards, they're not sexually open minded due to being influenced by the catholic church, yada yada, etc, and on the other hand, it's STILL women's fault because women are too promiscuous?


Seriously?

And what makes you think thats what I was saying.

What you should have taken from that is that I believe they are all contributing factors. No single one is the source of the issues and im even sure there are more factors that contribute but these happen to be some that stick out

So in conclusion Czarcasm

• Alot of men find they cannot approach women with certain intentions without the help of alcohol
• The Catholic Church has had and influence in the way I mentioned previously..not the way you did, two completley different things
• A lot of women in ireland can be stuck up, some because they are just plain b*tches but the majority because they find some men's childish reactions to rejection and overall general attitude of using them for sex a big issue ( i wouldnt blame them)
• Overly promiscious women do provide an outlet for men who are rejected many times from what I have seen. it makes sex more accesible to them therefore might make them feel its not necessary to change their approach

And one thing ive stressed time and time again

• This is all just my opinion and based on what I have witnessed over a number of years. As i dont drink and have a huge interest in social psychology I do tend to really pay attention to whats happening around me. Again this is based on my own experience. I'm not saying im right (except that the catholic churches actions and stance on sexuality has had reprecussions which are still blatantly obvious today)

Any other questions??

Legs.Eleven

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Nightclubs that just play chart sh1t and look like stripclubs are where you'll be dealing with those kind of women.
Pubs that play rock/trad/funk and aren't all about how dolled-up their patrons are, tend to have nicer, more mature clientele.

That's it. I don't think it's there now but Q Bar in Dublin was one place I avoided like a rash. You saw the heads going in there and you knew what to expect - girls dressed up to the absolute nines and fellas in check shirts and Ben Sherman. **** music, **** atmosphere, no craic. What's the appeal? Why keep going to those places if you know what you're going to find?

Table Top Joe

pone2012 wrote: »

From personal experience ( and this is just personal as ive stated numerous times) ive noticed that a lot guys (not all) getting rejected tend to go towards the easier women when they are left with no viable option but go home and masturbate. Now lets just imagine that there were no easy options. Then what?


I wouldnt say this only for ive seen it happen in many different circles of people. But again this is personal experience. It does not for one second mean im correct


Im sorry but I don't follow tbh..... edit....ok I see,you think men will continue with their **** approach since they can pull anyway


Any other questions??

No:)

Singularity 1

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Why keep going to those places if you know what you're going to find?

The million dollar question. People shouldn't be complaining if they keep going to the same shyte places.

eireannBEAR

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Nightclubs that just play chart sh1t and look like stripclubs are where you'll be dealing with those kind of women.
Pubs that play rock/trad/funk and aren't all about how dolled-up their patrons are, tend to have nicer, more mature clientele.

absolute lies i have been to many a rock bar they are my kind of place and are even more randy than your average bar...any one else who has been to one will back me up.

lufties

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Nightclubs that just play chart sh1t and look like stripclubs are where you'll be dealing with those kind of women.
Pubs that play rock/trad/funk and aren't all about how dolled-up their patrons are, tend to have nicer, more mature clientele.

but,but, but...well i spent 3 years living in dublin and never had any luck in the likes of whelans or any funk clubs, or even a kip like coppers. i found going to normal pubs such as the bleeding horse, long haul, keoghs were good spots to meet women. places where you might be able to actually have a conversation.

Femme_Fatale

lufties wrote: »

i found going to normal pubs such as the bleeding horse, long haul, keoghs were good spots to meet women. places where you might be able to actually have a conversation.

Yeh those kinds of places. Maybe it's only in Cork that the rock/funk places are way nicer than the "nite-club" type sh1t-holes. Oh god of course Coppers type places are gonna be the absolute worst for those types of rude women!

Legs.Eleven

Anywhere with loud music and dancing is difficult to pull in. "Old man" bars where you can chat are ideal.

lufties

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Anywhere with loud music and dancing is difficult to pull in. "Old man" bars where you can chat are ideal.

steady on there

Legs.Eleven

lufties wrote: »

steady on there

Old man as in more traditional bars with a mix of ages. There's hundreds in Dublin alone.

Singularity 1

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Anywhere with loud music and dancing is difficult to pull in. "Old man" bars where you can chat are ideal.

Yeah I've actually had better luck in the bars myself. A lot of the girls in clubs just want to dance and have a good time with their mates. And then as you said, you've the loud music. Not the best places to meet women.

Pug160

If you're not high energy or you don't look like you're having fun in a club you'll look out of place and the reactions from girls will be worse as a consequence of that. Let's be honest here, quite a high proportion of girls in clubs are not the mature minded sort, they are more like little children who have been given too much chocolate and sweets and are on a sugar rush. That is simply not the right sort of niche for some guys. Bars can be better as you can at least have some decent conversation if nothing else.

lufties

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Yeh those kinds of places. Maybe it's only in Cork that the rock/funk places are way nicer than the "nite-club" type sh1t-holes. Oh god of course Coppers type places are gonna be the absolute worst for those types of rude women!

i went to flannerys a while back for the first time
in 3 or so yrs, still the same, even the music, awful hyped up place. never been out in cork, are there rude women there too?

Legs.Eleven

Pug160 wrote: »

If you're not high energy or you don't look like you're having fun in a club you'll look out of place and the reactions from girls will be worse as a consequence of that. Let's be honest here, quite a high proportion of girls in clubs are not the mature minded sort, they are more like little children who have been given too much chocolate and sweets and are on a sugar rush. That is simply not the right sort of niche for some guys. Bars can be better as you can at least have some decent conversation if nothing else.

The guys are often as equally immature in those places, believe me.

lufties

Pug160 wrote: »

If you're not high energy or you don't look like you're having fun in a club you'll look out of place and the reactions from girls will be worse as a consequence of that. Let's be honest here, quite a high proportion of girls in clubs are not the mature minded sort, they are more like little children who have been given too much chocolate and sweets and are on a sugar rush. That is simply not the right sort of niche for some guys. Bars can be better as you can at least have some decent conversation if nothing else.

+1000

Legs.Eleven

Singularity 1 wrote: »

Yeah I've actually had better luck in the bars myself. A lot of the girls in clubs just want to dance and have a good time with their mates. And then as you said, you've the loud music. Not the best places to meet women.

And remember they've also been approached about 20 times before you've tried. Girls shouldn't act like bitches regardless but the sleaziness from fellas in those places is pretty unbearable as well.

Czarcasm

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Nightclubs that just play chart sh1t and look like stripclubs are where you'll be dealing with those kind of women.

Different strokes for different folks though in all fairness, and "those kind of women" are very much in the minority in all fairness.

Pubs that play rock/trad/funk and aren't all about how dolled-up their patrons are, tend to have nicer, more mature clientele.

Depends on what you're into really. There have been times when I'd sooner stick the damn drumsticks in my ears than listen to the trad/funk/jazz set while having some hoity toity type giving it welly in my ear about how lesser intellectual people misunderstand Quadrophenia, My Own Private Idaho, Woody Allen and the musings of Jack Kerouac!

There's times I can take listening to that stuff and pretend I'm interested (like I haven't heard her rattle off the same waffle already like the hundreds of faux intellectuals before her!), but I really, really, have to be in the mood for it.

And sometimes I'm just not. I like to switch off my brain when I go out and get lost in the atmosphere of the club while I enjoy a few drinks and chill out, and then sometimes I just like to eyeball the girls in their mini-dresses, as they totter around on their six inch heels, dolled up and looking glamorous. The odd time I don't mind if a girl approaches me for a chat, and if she's still around after I tell her I'm actually married and probably twice her age already, then we'll usually have a good laugh, and that's more to me than putting my grey matter to work when it's supposed to be switched off.

In short, I can't stand pretentious people, and you'll meet them in ANY venue you go to, whether it be the nightclub, a comedy club, the theatre, a jazz house, or one of the many alternative trad/rock/indie clubs and bars. Hell, you'll even meet them in the library!

Aineoil

lufties wrote: »

but,but, but...well i spent 3 years living in dublin and never had any luck in the likes of whelans or any funk clubs, or even a kip like coppers. i found going to normal pubs such as the bleeding horse, long haul, keoghs were good spots to meet women. places where you might be able to actually have a conversation.

I lived in Dublin in the 1980's, went to all those pubs. I'm glad I met my husband in college. But then it was different then, I think ? First day of college (the now husband) came up to me and said "You're going to marry me". I gave him a distaintful look, so he picked me up and threw me into a bath of cold water. That was the way then.....

Romance Irish style?

Badgered me for six months to go out with him!!! I did eventually. I was so horrible to him (for two weeks), I thought he'd go away in despair.....but I did fall in love with him. He's amazing in the kitchen. Best cook ever!

Pug160

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Anywhere with loud music and dancing is difficult to pull in. "Old man" bars where you can chat are ideal.

It's difficult for the majority, which is why the guys who are outgoing and have seemingly genuine fun in those places actually do quite well. That's been my experience observing different people I've known over the years. The guys who pull regularly in places like that are the same guys. I often wonder if some guys have the ability to fake having a good time. I have asked a few fellas this and I've never really had a concrete answer. Most people would be bored without alcohol being involved - that I do know.

Singularity 1

Pug160 wrote: »

It's difficult for the majority, which is why the guys who are outgoing and have seemingly genuine fun in those places actually do quite well. That's been my experience observing different people I've known over the years. The guys who pull regularly in places like that are the same guys. I often wonder if some guys have the ability to fake having a good time. I have asked a few fellas this and I've never really had a concrete answer. Most people would be bored without alcohol being involved - that I do know.

I'd say its more of a numbers game tbh. The guys that do well in clubs also get a lot of rejections. You need to have a thick skin for it.