No Revolution in Ireland...

Stereomaniac

Unfortunately they are not checked at intervals after they are put into office. I was in New Ross today and Enda Kenny was speaking and my uncle kept going on about how he never did anything he said he would after he was meant to do after he was elected. What can we do?

Mariasofia

Orim wrote: »

Does anyone else bite the head off their jelly babies and then laugh maniacally?

No you sicko



you do the legs first make em suffer ..

For Forks Sake

Orim wrote: »

Does anyone else bite the head off their jelly babies and then laugh maniacally?

No. You need to calm down. Drink this 'untreated' water.

*laughs maniacally*

Orim

For Forks Sake wrote: »

No. You need to calm down. Drink this 'untreated' water.

*laughs maniacally*

What you have failed to realise is that I switched the cups!

MUHAHAHAHAHA

emo72

there will probably be a big revolution in ireland. it usually comes from something that is regarded as insignificant.

like bus fares in brazil

or green spaces in turkey

or a kid selling vegetables in libya that gets disrespected by a government official

or governments putting vat on kids shoes.

its not predictable, thats how governments always miss it

Peregrine

Mariasofia wrote: »

No you sicko



you do the legs first make em suffer ..

This is what I do. I bite their legs off first then make them watch me chew it. Then I skin them alive and then finally jugulate them.

Guy:Incognito

rolliepoley wrote: »

Not yet. we have a long way to go, who knows whats going to happen in this country especially with the twats we have running it.

Sure are we not already fupped ? Remember last year when we were told the atms would stop dispensing cash within days and then it happened? No ,me either. And 18 months ago when they were printing new pound notes for us cos we'd be out of the euro inside 6 months ( either thrown or left) and then that happened? No?

Guy:Incognito

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Not that bad my arsé. Try saying that to the parents of the three week old baby that died recently, when an ambulance was sent to the wrong county. That's what happens when you ration and cannibalise frontline services.

DId that not happen because they were sent to a town in kerry but through misunderstanding ended up going to a town with the same or similar name in cork? Was it actually anything to do with cuts to funding or even related?

Orim

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The way I read it was that unfortunately the baby was already dead (cot death) when the ambulance was called in the early morning hours. And the ambulance arrived in 30 minutes.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

DId that not happen because they were sent to a town in kerry but through misunderstanding ended up going to a town with the same or similar name in cork? Was it actually anything to do with cuts to funding or even related?

Facts smacts. We're trying to raise a rabble here :mad:

starlit

If the years were reversed and the people in it there would probably be a revolution imminent now!

caustic 1

caustic 1 wrote: »

mmm black jelly babies, oh no wait that's fruit pastilles.

Racist.

KyussBishop

We got ourselves into a mess we can't really vote ourselves out of; no matter what government we pick locally, we can't undo the faults of the Euro and the European monetary/fiscal system.
There are recovery options available to Europe as a whole that can end the crisis fairly quickly (which requires collective unanimous agreement - hence the deadlock), but none to any individual country.

Best we can do is pick a government that understands the full range of options available to Europe, and which can try to create political momentum in that direction (by convincing other governments of the available options).

That's an incredibly tough job for a little country like Ireland (especially considering Germany and such will probably be dead-set against reform), but it's the best hope of a way forward in Europe; awful lack coherence on these issues, among European governments and politicians in general.


The actual economic issues are relatively easy to solve, the remaining issues are almost entirely political ones; those political issues are almost entirely down to ideology as well (economics and politics in many countries, is stuck promoting economic theory, which is just flat-out wrong; both economics as a field of study, and politics in general, are resisting any reform here).

There are a fair number of people/corporations/industries (largely bank/finance related) gaining significant power because of austerity, who are at the fore of resiting any reform to economics (both in academia and in politics); what we have is looking more and more like class warfare from them, against the rest of society, and they are winning by quite a large margin.

dxhound2005

emo72 wrote: »

there will probably be a big revolution in ireland. it usually comes from something that is regarded as insignificant.

like bus fares in brazil

or green spaces in turkey

or a kid selling vegetables in libya that gets disrespected by a government official

or governments putting vat on kids shoes.

its not predictable, thats how governments always miss it

It was very predictable in Ireland at the time of the VAT on shoes proposal. Not that there would be a revolution but that populist TD's who held the balance of power would bring the government down. The same thing happened to Charlie Haughey when his government tried to introduce harsh econmomic measures later the same year. Tony Gregory withdrew his support and the government fell. We had three general elections in the space of 18 months, not revolution but democracy in action. Mortgage interest rates were around 18% back in those times so people had plenty to worry about just like now.

Surely the time for revolution was around 5 years into Bertie Aherns reign when the disastrous policies which we are paying for now were being put in place. Things like the bogus decentralisation proposal, SSIA's and especially the tax concessions to developers to build too many houses. But strangely there was no call for revolution back then when everyones house was going up in "value". And Bertie and the PD's kept getting re-elected.

Now at least the government can try to repair the damage without populist TD's like Keavney and Shortall causing it's downfall with their early campaigns for re-election.

emo72

fine gael/ labour will be brought down at at the local election. they know it, damage limitation is being brought into play by putting back water rates to 2015. we are not that stupid. fianna fail are hoping to suck up support here, this is where i find things most interesting , will the electorate hold firm and condemn them to the faith they also deserve? i believe so. roll on democracy.....

Augmerson

The possibility of getting rid of the FG/Lab just to put FF back in power is sickening. We can't win. I have no faith in any of the parties nor any of the politicians.

emo72

Augmerson wrote: »

The possibility of getting rid of the FG/Lab just to put FF back in power is sickening. We can't win. I have no faith in any of the parties nor any of the politicians.

Have faith.

DEFTLEFTHAND

We don't have it nearly bad enough, we have a democracy and a very generous social welfare system. Nobody is oppressed in the ROI. We're going through a rough patch sure but we'll get through like we always do.

We still have a good standard of living here, food, shelter, access to education.

worded

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

What do we want? Jelly Babies

When do we want it? Now!!

What do we want
A cure for obesity
When do we want it?
After lunch

Augmerson

emo72 wrote: »

Have faith.

There is absolutely no reason to have faith in the political system in this country man. Now I am not saying it's like a dictatorship with no chance of change and its harsh, oppressive and violent but, really in my life time, I don't see change happening.

Orim

worded wrote: »

What do we want
A cure for obesity
When do we want it?
After lunch

What do want?
Time Travel!
When do we want it?
It's irrelevant!

Iwasfrozen

Augmerson wrote: »

The possibility of getting rid of the FG/Lab just to put FF back in power is sickening. We can't win. I have no faith in any of the parties nor any of the politicians.

A small part of me would love to see FF back in power just so i can read all the posts complaining about it. :-D

policarp

I can't understand why either Fitzpatrick, Drumm or Fingleton to name but a few aren't in jail or at least brought to court. . .

Karl Stein

KyussBishop wrote: »

There are a fair number of people/corporations/industries (largely bank/finance related) gaining significant power because of austerity, who are at the fore of resiting any reform to economics (both in academia and in politics); what we have is looking more and more like class warfare from them, against the rest of society, and they are winning by quite a large margin.

Very interesting point made here that rarely comes up for discussion and plays into my own acceptance of Conflict Theory as an undeniable aspect of human relations, class, and power. The most class conscious people these days are the privileged classes; they're pretty near obsessed with controlling the media so that the untermenschen don't develop class consciousness equal to their own and demand a greater share of the fruits of their labour.

Right wing 'think tanks'(propaganda disseminators) are well funded by wealthy corporations and billionaires who've gained from the upward flow of the wealth generated by labour. Astroturf organisations like the Tea Party (who, btw I think are primarily well meaning folk) are out arguing against their own interests on behalf of people who couldn't give a fuck about them. The finance sector is reaping ever greater reward while unemployment remains stubbornly high - high unemployment and job insecurity aiding the squeezing of the fruits of labour to 'trickle up'.

I think of these folks as 'the commissars of Capitalism' i.e. little discernible talent or entrepreneurial skill other than knowing how to make the greatest return possible by becoming a cog in the system. The thing is, though, that systems are fragile - the commissars of Capitalism dread a 'Berlin wall moment' where the masses just ignore the structures that corral them and simply take control.

The Castle is only as secure as the people who keep it safe.

KyussBishop

Cathal Cloch wrote: »

Very interesting point made here that rarely comes up for discussion and plays into my own acceptance of Conflict Theory as an undeniable aspect of human relations, class, and power. The most class conscious people these days are the privileged classes; they're pretty near obsessed with controlling the media so that the untermenschen don't develop class consciousness equal to their own and demand a greater share of the fruits of their labour.

Right wing 'think tanks'(propaganda disseminators) are well funded by wealthy corporations and billionaires who've gained from the upward flow of the wealth generated by labour. Astroturf organisations like the Tea Party (who, btw I think are primarily well meaning folk) are out arguing against their own interests on behalf of people who couldn't give a fuck about them. The finance sector is reaping ever greater reward while unemployment remains stubbornly high - high unemployment and job insecurity aiding the squeezing of the fruits of labour to 'trickle up'.

I think of these folks as 'the commissars of Capitalism' i.e. little discernible talent or entrepreneurial skill other than knowing how to make the greatest return possible by becoming a cog in the system. The thing is, though, that systems are fragile - the commissars of Capitalism dread a 'Berlin wall moment' where the masses just ignore the structures that corral them and simply take control.

The Castle is only as secure as the people who keep it safe.

Interesting reading up a small bit of Conflict Theory, not really something I read up on or thought much about before (have not really read up much political theory); that there is a higher 'class' who (consciously or not) is in control of much of society to the detriment of everyone else, is kind of an idea you would tend to dismiss automatically as outdated, but the more I read up on how things are economically/politically, the more sense it seems to make.

It doesn't even have to involve consciously engaging in that kind of class conflict either: The way the monetary system itself is constructed and how debt will eventually put a squeeze on some part of society (usually the lower classes), will ensure that people act this way (maximizing personal profit) for their own selfish gain, in ways that negatively affect everyone else (it's necessitated by the monetary system, because of how the debt must fall on someone), and they won't even be aware that they are part of the wider class conflict.


You're right regarding most of the types who end up defending this, that many of them just aren't aware of what they're a part of, and that they largely dance to the tune set by the ultra-wealthy who control the think tanks and propaganda; I'm reluctant to give all of them the benefit of the doubt, that they are just pawns or 'useful idiots' mind, because I just don't see how the level of deceit and obvious untruthfulness in their arguments, can't be seen by themselves.

At best, I think many of them may be pawns, but for such a staggering level of self-deception involved in holding many of these views, I think there must often be someone who tries to reinforce the views through emotional/social arguments (the kind of sociopathic disregard/manipulation you may find in the worst parts of finance); I just don't get how the kool-aid can be drunk so completely, without someone manipulating a wider group like that.


The interesting thing about all this, is that for the whole time (well over a hundred or more years), the weak point of this has just been the monetary system; attacking just that (promoting reform there), makes a ton of (previously unthinkable) stuff just a matter of policymaking.

You can end regressive private debts (from money created out of nothing), end the use of economic crisis as a gigantic weapon of class warfare, and end all attacks on wider society through attacks on public services, and instill an entire progressive bias into politics, just by promoting the right monetary reform.

Remmy

We just need to figure out what a Bastille is, where it is located and then we can go storm it

steddyeddy

zom wrote: »

Are we really so pampered that we don't mind what governments are doing with us and rest of the word? Bigger repose if someone start to talk about jelly babies than revolt in Turkey or Brasli?

Brazil protests



http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/crisis-talks-in-brazil-as-protests-escalate-234826.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0621/457948-brazil-protests/

http://www.thejournal.ie/brazil-soccer-protests-2-961104-Jun2013/

Because some people think protesting accomplishes nothing. People without access to a history book.

Femme_Fatale

zom wrote: »

Are we really so pampered that we don't mind what governments are doing with us and rest of the word? Bigger repose if someone start to talk about jelly babies than revolt in Turkey or Brasli?

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

There must be something in the water here. Irish people have become extremely passive and docile, far more likely to get riled up about meaningless sports than something that actually matters.

Could ye tell me please what makes ye Irish people any different/better?

And Ireland is a far better place in which to live than Turkey/Brazil are for a lot of people. Brazil has horrendous social inequalities, and Turkey has horrendous human rights abuses.

cameramonkey

Do Turkish or Brazilian people get social welfare at the same level as Ireland? I dont know what the social welfare payment is in Ireland but I would guess if it was the same in Brazil or Turkey then their would be far less people protesting.

steddyeddy

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

We don't have it nearly bad enough, we have a democracy and a very generous social welfare system. Nobody is oppressed in the ROI. We're going through a rough patch sure but we'll get through like we always do.

We still have a good standard of living here, food, shelter, access to education.

One in five children go to bed hungry.

Homelessness increased by 7%.

On top of that some schools have lost a fifth or more of their teachers.

No offense meant but people who aren't affected by this shouldn't be telling everyone "we need cuts ect".

steddyeddy

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Could ye tell me please what makes ye Irish people any different/better?

And Ireland is a far better place in which to live than Turkey/Brazil are for a lot of people.

Well in terms of corruption I don't think Ireland is too far behind Brazil to be honest.