Biased refs

WumBuster

There has been major uproar over the refereeing performance in the SHC qualifier on Saturday that took place between Offaly and Waterford. In the course of the game the referee in question awarded for all to witness, numerous baffling decisions to his neighboring county Offaly against the Deise men, who in their own fortune and in spite of this, came out on top in the closely contested game.
Its crazy that a ref could be biased like that in an intercounty senior hurling match. Id understand a ref giving a free for a team 10 pts down against Kilkenny but what went on today in a match against two evenly matched teams was ridiculous. The ref is supposed to be impartial, this needs to be looked at seriously by the powers that be. This cant go on in the GAA, its too common.

eire 2012

You get used to it if your from kilkenny most days they are a few points down before the ball is thrown in.The margin only varies by who is in the middle last nights refs county man being the worst offender.A few frees can be overcome most of the time but the lack of protection for kilkenny players is a joke at this stage it's fair game now to break up kilkenny players in the knowledge that you will be unlikely to receive a booking.There is plenty of examples in the last year for all to see .

nice_guy80

eire 2012 wrote: »

You get used to it if your from kilkenny most days they are a few points down before the ball is thrown in.The margin only varies by who is in the middle last nights refs county man being the worst offender.A few frees can be overcome most of the time but the lack of protection for kilkenny players is a joke at this stage it's fair game now to break up kilkenny players in the knowledge that you will be unlikely to receive a booking.There is plenty of examples in the last year for all to see .

you're kidding, right?
Kilkenny players get away with stuff no other county team get away with

Ando's Saggy Bottom

eire 2012 wrote: »

There is plenty of examples in the last year for all to see .

Name some examples so. Five say.

Martin567

nice_guy80 wrote: »

you're kidding, right?
Kilkenny players get away with stuff no other county team get away with

Everything he said was correct. It's incredibly difficult for an opposition player to be sent off against Kilkenny. If Kilkenny players took the same approach as several players and teams have against them over the last couple of years, there would be absolute uproar both on sites like this and in the media.

theoneeyedman

This is gonna last.....

Didn't see the game last night so won't comment directly. IMO bad refereeing is more incompetence than bias although I have seen refs getting a set against individual players and teams at club level. Refs sometimes ate conditioned to expect and sometimes achieve a certain result. When teams in connacht play London refs and umpires etc normally fly over with the team so you can expect them to be conditioned to a certain result. Likewise today it's in very few people's interests for London to beat leitrim so expect the officials to be very aware of this

ANXIOUS

Are you joking? Major uproar, I heard much lower than normal abuse. That's coming from someone who is from neither county. I think James had a fine game, he took direction from his lines man and clearly pointed out when he took there advice.

I would say that a lot of this stems from people not knowing the rules.

Choochtown

I know James personally and I can assure you that there is no chance whatsoever that he would ever deliberately favour one team over another regardless of geographical location or any other perceived connection to a particular side.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Its far more likely that someone from Westmeath would want to stop Offaly from winning rather than help them.

nice_guy80

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Its far more likely that someone from Westmeath would want to stop Offaly from winning rather than help them.

I think that is more of a South Westmeath football thing
James McGrath is from hurling country in north Westmeath, where there is far more animosity towards Meath!

Ando's Saggy Bottom

I think he's as much useless as biased. But when you put a useless ref in change of a game where one of the counties has recently reported his uselessness you're asking for a sh*tstorm to develop!

eire 2012

Ando's Saggy Bottom wrote: »

Name some examples so. Five say.

You must not have seen many matches last year so but here goes
Most recent
Richie hogan pulled across head and hand in one movement against Offaly yellow given fair enough but hogan himself sent off for similar against limerick last year.
Tj Reids hand pulled across by the same player no where near the ball no free would have been given only Reid stopped playing himself,no second yellow either even though it could have been straight red
Three incidents in all Ireland replay one red for donnelan hitting jj across the head so if that was red tannion hitting power across the head should have been red too only that was in the first half when galway were still in it no point ruining their chance of an upset by reffing to the rule book
Then tannion pulls across Reid breaking his kneecap in the second half
Then the famous semi final padraic maher could have killed half the kilkenny team that day and not been sent off
Wild one handed swing way above the ball
Smashed power in the side of the head/neck
Pulled across tj Reid in front of the ref with the game over as a contest and only a yellow given.
If kilkenny players carried out the above there would be pages of outrage here and in the media but kilkenny are fair game now so things are quiet.
The media and biased Sunday game analysts have achieved what they wanted and got into the heads of the referees. The same rule book for both is all that's required not a mentality that I better watched kilkenny closely that's creeping in to the game.

dzer2

James Mcgrath is the most incompetent ref that is left on the panel. While Waterford supporters might feel hard done by he just cant help it. Taking advice from a linesman is fairly mute I have done linesman and umpire at matches. An inter county ref instructed me to watch a certain forward, told me he was well known for giving sly digs off the ball. Just before half time the defender absolutely smashed the forward with the hurley for no reason. The ref came in and asked what happened he got told by both of us. He said we must have missed what the forward done as he properly deserved the belt and booked the 2 of them. Needless to say I have refused to go to matches with him ever since.

ceegee

Ando's Saggy Bottom wrote: »

Name some examples so. Five say.

The offaly no. 7 (Parlon?) only getting yellow for hitting a man in the head with no intention of going for the ball.

Same man then avoided a 2nd yellow for a wild swing across a players hand

Padraic Maher on Rice

Padraic Maher on TJ (could probably fill this list just with him from that match)

Tannion on TJ

Hulk Hands

eire 2012 wrote: »

You get used to it if your from kilkenny most days they are a few points down before the ball is thrown in.The margin only varies by who is in the middle last nights refs county man being the worst offender.A few frees can be overcome most of the time but the lack of protection for kilkenny players is a joke at this stage it's fair game now to break up kilkenny players in the knowledge that you will be unlikely to receive a booking.There is plenty of examples in the last year for all to see .

Hah, this is funny when I think back to some of the decisions Kilkenny have gotten that have swung All Ireland's in their favour. Most famously it must be the ridiculous penalty with 10 minutes left in the 09 final (I think?) between tipp and themselves when they were behind. The phantom point in last years drawn game final also, which hopefully won't happen again with hawkeye

celt262

The Ref in the Donegal and Down game was poor today.

Neeson

He did alright in fairness, a few bad decisions but he can't be perfect.

Conditions were terrible too.

Deise Hurler

The performance of James McGrath in refereeing the Offaly v Waterford match yesterday was nothing but an absolute disgrace. As a waterford man, my oponion is of course going to be biased towards my own county. However, alot of Offaly supporters sitting around me felt the same. He was trying to screw Waterford over. Pure and simple. Some of his decisions were nothing short of baffling. Probably didn't help that he wasn't able to keep up with play. However, he shouldn't have been given the game in the first place.

eire 2012

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Hah, this is funny when I think back to some of the decisions Kilkenny have gotten that have swung All Ireland's in their favour. Most famously it must be the ridiculous penalty with 10 minutes left in the 09 final (I think?) between tipp and themselves when they were behind. The phantom point in last years drawn game final also, which hopefully won't happen again with hawkeye

I'm afraid if you look at the 09 final penalty decision you will see why it was given and I'm not saying it wasn't soft it probably was but power was fouled outside area ref gave him an extra step or two then he entered the square where Paul currans hurl came in around his neck which is what the penalty was given for.

Lets not be on about the phantom point your on about what about the free from the phantom foul/ big dive to level it

bohsboy

celt262 wrote: »

The Ref in the Donegal and Down game was poor today.

Completely disagree, he took no crap off the players, moved frees on for the usual clowns moaning about every decision, explained his decisions and reffed with a smile on his face.
I noticed him in the Dublin Westmeath game a few weeks ago and I was very impressed. Lets the game flow at every opportunity.

robbiezero

eire 2012 wrote: »

I'm afraid if you look at the 09 final penalty decision you will see why it was given and I'm not saying it wasn't soft it probably was but power was fouled outside area ref gave him an extra step or two then he entered the square where Paul currans hurl came in around his neck which is what the penalty was given for.

Lets not be on about the phantom point your on about what about the free from the phantom foul/ big dive to level it

about 8 extra steps. was brutal refereeing.

celt262

bohsboy wrote: »

Completely disagree, he took no crap off the players, moved frees on for the usual clowns moaning about every decision, explained his decisions and reffed with a smile on his face.
I noticed him in the Dublin Westmeath game a few weeks ago and I was very impressed. Lets the game flow at every opportunity.

I would disagree as would the lads doing commentary on BBC, very inconsistent and alot of soft frees went the way of Donegal.

bohsboy

celt262 wrote: »

I would disagree as would the lads doing commentary on BBC, very inconsistent and alot of soft frees went the way of Donegal.

It's an impossible sport to ref properly with the niggling and cynical fouling going on all over the pitch. Minimal assistance from linesmen and umpires. I liked the way he shut the mouths up with almost every free moved up 13 metres.

33theman33

How a Westmeath man is allowed ref a senior inter county hurling game is beyond me.

eire 2012

eire 2012 wrote: »

The media and biased Sunday game analysts have achieved what they wanted and got into the heads of the referees. The same rule book for both is all that's required not a mentality that I better watched kilkenny closely that's creeping in to the game.

Good man Donal og you were very good to highlight power holding Kelly's arm in build up to kilkenny goal but you were unable to see a tug on Walter walshs jersey about one second later.Fair play to the Sunday game hi lighting only the arm holding incident no point in an un biased discussion about the match sure Dublin probably didn't commit any such fouls at all

robbiezero

eire 2012 wrote: »

Good man Donal og you were very good to highlight power holding Kelly's arm in build up to kilkenny goal but you were unable to see a tug on Walter walshs jersey about one second later.Fair play to the Sunday game hi lighting only the arm holding incident no point in an un biased discussion about the match sure Dublin probably didn't commit any such fouls at all

What would have been the point of highlighting that?
The interesting part was that the goal was made by a foul missed by the ref.

dundalkfc10

celt262 wrote: »

The Ref in the Donegal and Down game was poor today.

Totally agree, I thought a deliberate foul was a Yellow Card.

If he had off used this rule, 2 or 3 from both sides would have been giving the line.

Until the referees use the letter of the law, Teams will keep on with this "Tactical" fouling which is a cancer on the game.

eire 2012

robbiezero wrote: »

What would have been the point of highlighting that?
The interesting part was that the goal was made by a foul missed by the ref.

Well you know as we'll as I do that there is holding in every hurling match by every single team it's called competing for the ball but the problem is its hi lighted on Sunday game there now as if kilkenny are the only team doing it.Refs could be influenced sub consciously to watch Kk players to see if they are holding opponents when Kk players themselves could be fouled similarly

Duiske

33theman33 wrote: »

How a Westmeath man is allowed ref a senior inter county hurling game is beyond me.

What has being from Westmeath got to do with anything ?

rebel girl 15

Westmeath man shouldn't have been refereeing the Offaly v Waterford game - too close to home county and the fact the winners play his own county. Now, I'm not saying he was or was not biased, but he is wide open, even more so, to those accusations because of those facts. From what I've heard of McGrath's performance, his assessment won't be great.

Big thing the referees need to start pulling is the wild pulling and striking - rulebook says that its a red card offense, but I've heard about a lot of yellow being given out for it instead, which is ridiculous. A strike is a strike, end of.

Duiske

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Westmeath man shouldn't have been refereeing the Offaly v Waterford game - too close to home county and the fact the winners play his own county. Now, I'm not saying he was or was not biased, but he is wide open, even more so, to those accusations because of those facts. From what I've heard of McGrath's performance, his assessment won't be great.

I totally get that and agree. But 33theman33 seemed to be making some kind of point about Westmeath hurling ref's in general and was not referring specifically to the Waterford v Offaly game.

Stoner

celt262 wrote: »

I would disagree as would the lads doing commentary on BBC, very inconsistent and alot of soft frees went the way of Donegal.

They are hard calls though particularly when teams go looking for it, grab their face and lie motionless on the ground, only to win a free ands get up without a mark on them. It must be a very difficult job. I enjoyed the game myself.

PaddyCar

Can someone answer me this? If a free is awarded and the offending play backchats or holds up a quick free and the ref rightly decides to bring the free forward, how far should it be brought up?
I always thought it was 10yards but in the Donegal/Down game yesterday the ref seemed to bring bringing it up 20-30 yards each time.

keane2097

PaddyCar wrote: »

Can someone answer me this? If a free is awarded and the offending play backchats or holds up a quick free and the ref rightly decides to bring the free forward, how far should it be brought up?
I always thought it was 10yards but in the Donegal/Down game yesterday the ref seemed to bring bringing it up 20-30 yards each time.

It's ten metres or 14 yards. There was a struck down motion to increase it to 30 metres at GAA Congress this year which would have been great.

Wouldn't be too sorry to see Pat instruct his refs to be more generous with it on their own initiative.

premierstone

lol only KK lads could turn this into a thread about them, the scary thing about it is they actually believe this victim rubbish, I tell you Cody is more than a brilliant manager he has the whole feckin lot of them brainwashed and signing of the same hymnsheet, genius!

They spent the last 5 years laughing and goading Tipp, and still do, that they are soft and wouldn't go into a dark room etc. then after Padraic Mahers one bad challenge (the second one was a freak accident) Tipp are suddenly bullies and the poor auld mites on Noreside need more protection from the refs :rolleyes: Twas all good honest manly stuff according to Sir Brian untill one of their lads got hurt, now its out of control and something needs to be done, lol seriously you couldn't make it up! There have been plenty of lads on the receiving end of KK down through the years but they seem to have forgotten all them??

zetecescort

For the last ten years or so there has been two sure signs of summer, the swallows returning and Cody or former players coming out with the "manliness, physical game" ****e to cover their pulling and dragging. Sure, everybody does it but KK has got the refs to let it go. "Let the game flow"

Martin567

premierstone wrote: »

lol only KK lads could turn this into a thread about them, the scary thing about it is they actually believe this victim rubbish, I tell you Cody is more than a brilliant manager he has the whole feckin lot of them brainwashed and signing of the same hymnsheet, genius!

They spent the last 5 years laughing and goading Tipp, and still do, that they are soft and wouldn't go into a dark room etc. then after Padraic Mahers one bad challenge (the second one was a freak accident) Tipp are suddenly bullies and the poor auld mites on Noreside need more protection from the refs :rolleyes: Twas all good honest manly stuff according to Sir Brian untill one of their lads got hurt, now its out of control and something needs to be done, lol seriously you couldn't make it up! There have been plenty of lads on the receiving end of KK down through the years but they seem to have forgotten all them??

In fairness, this is complete nonsense. Please stop trying to pretend the Michael Rice incident was a complete accident. Swinging a hurl one handed two feet above the ball like a slashers cutting nettles is just plain reckless. It is a fact that two Kilkenny players suffered long-term injuries as a result of serious foul play last year that went unpunished by the officials. In 14 years under Brian Cody, Kilkenny have never inflicted anything remotely similar on any opponent.

premierstone

Martin567 wrote: »

In fairness, this is complete nonsense. Please stop trying to pretend the Michael Rice incident was a complete accident. Swinging a hurl one handed two feet above the ball like a slashers cutting nettles is just plain reckless. It is a fact that two Kilkenny players suffered long-term injuries as a result of serious foul play last year that went unpunished by the officials. In 14 years under Brian Cody, Kilkenny have never inflicted anything remotely similar on any opponent.

lol are you fcukin serious, tell me what was your opinion on the ''treatment'' that was handed out to Seamus Hickey in an AI final.

There are plenty of other examples aswell but that one sticks out as the most blatant and quite frankly embarrassing treatment of an apposition player.

antoobrien

Martin567 wrote: »

In 14 years under Brian Cody, Kilkenny have never inflicted anything remotely similar on any opponent.

Not for lack of trying by a certain wing back.

premierstone

antoobrien wrote: »

Not for lack of trying by a certain wing back.

Jaysus he wasn't on he's own he had plenty of assistance from two of he's FB line aswell, the afore mentioned wing back wasn't happy with just targeting the opposition either, he's moved on to the officials!

Martin567

premierstone wrote: »

lol are you fcukin serious, tell me what was your opinion on the ''treatment'' that was handed out to Seamus Hickey in an AI final.

There are plenty of other examples aswell but that one sticks out as the most blatant and quite frankly embarrassing treatment of an apposition player.

I remember Eddie Brennan could well have been red-carded for a dig on a Limerick player but I thought it was Stephen Lucey? The only thing I remember with Seamus Hickey is Shefflin connecting with a perfect shoulder when he was too slow to pick up a ball.

When Brian Cody spoke about manly hurling, he was never referring to striking an opponent with a hurl. Of course Kilkenny have been guilty of this on a few occasions too. However, they have been on the receiving end of about five serious fouls over the last few years that have gone way beyond anything they ever inflicted on anyone.

toxicity234

WumBuster wrote: »

There has been major uproar over the refereeing performance in the SHC qualifier on Saturday that took place between Offaly and Waterford. In the course of the game the referee in question awarded for all to witness, numerous baffling decisions to his neighboring county Offaly against the Deise men, who in their own fortune and in spite of this, came out on top in the closely contested game.
Its crazy that a ref could be biased like that in an intercounty senior hurling match. Id understand a ref giving a free for a team 10 pts down against Kilkenny but what went on today in a match against two evenly matched teams was ridiculous. The ref is supposed to be impartial, this needs to be looked at seriously by the powers that be. This cant go on in the GAA, its too common.

I have to disagree with this. The ref was ok on Sat night. he gave as much to waterford as he did to Offalys. Offaly had Walsh under pressure and he was pulling jersey and grabing hurls allover the place and getting away with it. He even rugby tackle Mahon at one stage and got a free out for it.

Offaly had as much to complain about as Waterford on Sat night. The only thing is Offaly were complain about the 1st and Waterford were complain about the 2nd.


he got all 3 peno calls correct.
he could be accused of in the second half even up the free count for the first half when the waterford back got away with murder a few time.

Deise Hurler

toxicity234 wrote: »

I have to disagree with this. The ref was ok on Sat night. he gave as much to waterford as he did to Offalys. Offaly had Walsh under pressure and he was pulling jersey and grabing hurls allover the place and getting away with it. He even rugby tackle Mahon at one stage and got a free out for it.

Offaly had as much to complain about as Waterford on Sat night. The only thing is Offaly were complain about the 1st and Waterford were complain about the 2nd.


he got all 3 peno calls correct.
he could be accused of in the second half even up the free count for the first half when the waterford back got away with murder a few time.

Haha, we must have been watching different games.
He didn't get the penalty calls right. When seamus pendergast was rugby tackled by yere full back to the ground and a free out was given it just took the piss. Have since watched it back on tv and it was the most blatant penalty i have ever seen. Waterford fans are of course going to be biased towards their team but every one of them i have met since has given out stink about James McGrath. Hopefully he never gets a Waterford game ever again.

rebel girl 15

Interesting article by John Bannon on it http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/mcgrath-wrong-choice-for-deise-game-234970.html

LeoB

Whether a ref is from a neighbouring county or not should not come into a match and to be fair I dont think it would. Dublin had to put up with Tommy "Hoppy" Howard who most thought was an awful referee. I thought he gave a few soft frees to Offaly but its hard to look at a game any day now and we could make that point about most referees.

From what I saw on Sunday of the Donegal and Down match Donegal got frees a lot easier than Down. They were over physical on many occasions and got away with it. In fairness to Jim McGuinness he has his lads playing right on the edge and he is getting away with it for now.

toxicity234

John Bannon hates Offaly more than any man in the world.
i have no idea why but he has never writing any thing good about Offaly.
I very very funny read what he write about us.

TheCoolWay

eire 2012 wrote: »

You get used to it if your from kilkenny most days they are a few points down before the ball is thrown in.The margin only varies by who is in the middle last nights refs county man being the worst offender.A few frees can be overcome most of the time but the lack of protection for kilkenny players is a joke at this stage it's fair game now to break up kilkenny players in the knowledge that you will be unlikely to receive a booking.There is plenty of examples in the last year for all to see .

This is absolute rubbish Kilkenny get everything! You drunk?

eire 2012

TheCoolWay wrote: »

This is absolute rubbish Kilkenny get everything! You drunk?

Please explain because kilkenny are being reffed completely different to their opponents for a long time now.They have been winning a bit and everybody is fed up of this and it's influencing officials.All kilkenny inter county teams are suffering because of the seniors success tonight's u21 match being another lob sided refereeing performance

premierstone

eire 2012 wrote: »

Please explain because kilkenny are being reffed completely different to their opponents for a long time now.They have been winning a bit and everybody is fed up of this and it's influencing officials.All kilkenny inter county teams are suffering benefiting because of the seniors success tonight's u21 match being another lob sided refereeing performance

I agree with every single word of this.

vermin99

Lads though think about your a ref you have few thousand people screaming at ya for a free or not they'll obviously make mistakes and that's fine by me,but when a ref heads on and continously calls bad decisions etc it ain't on! And as regards to dirty swings and pulls ye deserve to be sent off for some but I'd say 80% of pulls are done in the heat of the moment but it'd up to the ref to decide whether it was accidntal or not.........just my view(also a kk man).

faithfulfan

Hurling is a contact sport and is always going to be difficult to ref, I can only guess that the OP's remarks were somewhat in the heat of the moment after what was a closer than expected call for Waterford, although there were mistakes that went both ways and it was reffed fairly well overall.

As for "eire 2012" reply, well that's fairly fanciful, Offaly were reffed off the park again KK, to be honest some of it was deserved but a lot was down to cuteness by experienced KK players drawing fouls.

Parlon first foul was an attempt to block a hand pass, the KK players fall was very exaggerated but it deserved a free. The second foul is a bit of a grey area, the skill of doubling on a dropping is a great skill in hurling, it resulted in what I would describe as the save of the season by the Waterford keeper at the end of the match on Saturday evening.

Parlon had every right to go for the dropping ball, and it was obvious early on in the match that Offaly were first timing everything with a lot of success. True he caught the players hand and it was rightly awarded as a free. But he caught the player hand because players are coached to protect themselves when catching by putting the hand holding the hurl up behind them, putting it between Parlon and the ball. You learn fairly early in hurling that putting up you hand in that situation is a judgement call and in a lot of cases at your own risk.

eire 2012 wrote: »

Please explain because kilkenny are being reffed completely different to their opponents for a long time now.They have been winning a bit and everybody is fed up of this and it's influencing officials.All kilkenny inter county teams are suffering because of the seniors success tonight's u21 match being another lob sided refereeing performance

:rolleyes:

Watched the match last night and a very good game it was, however the worst piece of foul play I saw was near the end of the match when a KK forward went down with minimal contact and was awarded a free. The camera zoomed in and caught the smile on his face as he pretended to be hurt and fixed his helmet. To say the ref was lob sided is BS.

There was a similar incident on Sunday for the second last KK point where a Dublin player missed with a shoulder but the ref gave a free because of the theatrical dive. If you are going to whinge about refs at least try to have some veneer of impartiality.