The Junior Cert as a whole and the education system

cfc.forever

I was bored so I decided to write a detailed review on the education system as a whole and the Junior Certificate. I recently completed my Junior Certificate.

The Junior Certificate was a stroll for some but a stressful time for others. There is a saying, the Junior Cert is for the parents and the Leaving Cert is for yourself. I think this is kind of true, the amount of stress Irish Teens get from there parent needs to stop as the Junior Certificate is only a stepping stone.

How you can get good grades is positive peer pressure and good advice from parents, alongside doing some well-needed study. There are studies that prove that people living in highly educated backgrounds and who are reasnably wealthy with no social problems tend to do better than the less well-off/with social issues. There is many reasons for this from problems between parents to anti-social behaviour. Growing him an area full of poverty may lead you to go into crime rather than education.

There are many good points into having a good education but it also has its downsides, many infact.

Consistent studying can be a major problem with young teens when growing up, too much study can't be good, just like an abundance of anything isn't good.

Too much study can result in social problems, you may loose friends and you may also remain in this constant study zone for the rest of your life or in some cases people take there own lifes because of the stress of examinations etc.

Now were going to have a continuous basis system which I believe will only be 40% of your total grade, you will than be examined and get 60% for the exam. I think personally we should have a fully fledged education system, I will outline in each subject on how I think the education system should work.

English - I think this subject is fine in general as a subject. I do think that film/media should be a bigger part of the subject nowdays, I also think IT should be a major part of it. I think the subject should encourage reading books more, and test more on general knowledge in relation to English.

History - I think this subject is a very thought-out, well planned subject. I think the questions should continue to be the same, but the document questions should be more tricky as people consider them "easy marks" I think the essays need to be a bit more un-predictable. A research project should definately be compolsoury for Junior Cert History, as it is for the Leaving Cert and would be good preparation for the Leaving Cert.

Maths - For the subject as a whole I don't have a flare for the subject, but I think the introduction of Project Maths was good as a a whole. I think probability and statistics need to be implemented well more in maths. I think maths should reform and be more computer-based, where computer science would come into play. Computer Science is a good way in solving problem-anayltical skills, I also think there should be options in releations to maths for Leaving Cert.

Geography - Overall I think it is a great subject. I think they need to make Section A in the Higher Level Paper well more trickier, people consider it as "ticking boxes" which is not a good way for the subject to be presented. Again like History, a research project is always benefical.

Science - I think it is a very good subject, but for Leaving Cert in particular, I think one science subject should be compulsory, I think Biology is a very important subject as a whole. I have not done Biology for Leaving Cert, but your learning about the human body/plants etc its the "study of life" certainly a need for review there.

These are the subjects, which I feel need major reforms, I think the SEC need to constantly review the syllabus of different subjects. Another subject which I did not give a detailed description of that needs a reform is JC Irish, I really think it is neccessary for an Irish oral exam as the reason people learn Irish is to be used on a practical basis, I think most of the exam should be based on the oral and a minority oral. I think in transitition year it should be compulsory to go to a gaeltach and learn Irish.

The examination system as a whole, I think it would be much cheaper and affordable if it was done through a web portal. Basically I think all examinations should be sat in a massaive computer room, with a supervisor, there is questions, pupils type there answers and it gets submitted and the appropiate examiners can review it. I think this would cost a fortune but in the long run this is very benefical. IPad's need to be implemented in many schools across the country, with students given the oppourtunity to rent them, students should have laptop.

I tried to be as specific as possible in this review, hopefully some time I'll be able to provide a more detailed review with statistics etc. What do you think needs to be changed in the Junior Cert System? Do you agree with my proposed changes?

All my changes were well-thought out, and I hope we have the same views on the examination system. I think there is elements to be sorted out, but I think as a whole it needs a re-vamp in this modern era. I think the way were taught in certain subjects is good, its just what I have outlined needs to be changed. We need a more technology based system and not the attitiude "Technology hates me" which I'm sure many of you students receive.

Lastly, have a good summer, this will be my last Junior Cert thread until September when I'm helping out new boardse's. Enjoy the summer, have a good one!

Cr4pSnip3r

cfc.forever wrote: »

Now were going to have a continuous basis system which I believe will only be 40% of your total grade, you will than be examined and get 60% for the exam. I think personally we should have a fully fledged education system, I will outline in each subject on how I think the education system should work.

Aight then, lets see.

cfc.forever wrote: »

English - I think this subject is fine in general as a subject. I do think that film/media should be a bigger part of the subject nowdays, I also think IT should be a major part of it. I think the subject should encourage reading books more, and test more on general knowledge in relation to English.

I feel it should be a lot less poem and drama based, exam-wise. I can do it easily, I'm not saying this because I find it difficult, I'm saying this because it's just not a good aspect of the exam. I know even for LC, the amount of poetry and drama done becomes ridiculous. It's not necessary. As for the IT, I don't see its relevance, truly, but aside from English itself, IT seems important. We do a tad bit of it in first year.

cfc.forever wrote: »

History - I think this subject is a very thought-out, well planned subject. I think the questions should continue to be the same, but the document questions should be more tricky as people consider them "easy marks" I think the essays need to be a bit more un-predictable. A research project should definitely be compulsory for Junior Cert History, as it is for the Leaving Cert and would be good preparation for the Leaving Cert.

I understand where you're coming from, and the research project is a good idea. However, it should remain predictable. Perhaps slightly, ever so slightly, less so, but still easy to guess. The course is quite huge, if we're honest, and to know that one or two less chapters will come up, or that one may happen to pop up for Q6, can be a huge assist going into the exam. You may end up being wrong, but it's just something small to help students deal with the exam. They're JC, for goodness sake, after all, they didn't pick history, no point in killing them for it.

cfc.forever wrote: »

Maths - For the subject as a whole I don't have a flare for the subject, but I think the introduction of Project Maths was good as a a whole. I think probability and statistics need to be implemented well more in maths. I think maths should reform and be more computer-based, where computer science would come into play. Computer Science is a good way in solving problem-analytical skills, I also think there should be options in relations to maths for Leaving Cert.

I disagree, if they want to bring in Computer Science, I think it should be completely separate. It's implementation, however, is not a bad idea.

cfc.forever wrote: »

Geography - Overall I think it is a great subject. I think they need to make Section A in the Higher Level Paper well more trickier, people consider it as "ticking boxes" which is not a good way for the subject to be presented. Again like History, a research project is always beneficial.

Still, it's only JC, the ticking boxes bit is a good way to make sure lots of students don't just fail. It's not necessarily super easy, either, you do have to know what you're doing. I don't think it should be removed. If there's a research project for LC, then maybe that'd be a good idea. If not, then don't even go near it.

cfc.forever wrote: »

Science - I think it is a very good subject, but for Leaving Cert in particular, I think one science subject should be compulsory, I think Biology is a very important subject as a whole. I have not done Biology for Leaving Cert, but your learning about the human body/plants etc its the "study of life" certainly a need for review there.

I don't think it should be compulsory, at all. Not all people are made for Science, and I would like to respect that. I love Science, it gives me a headache and confuses me a lot, but I still love it. Most people in my year chose a science subject of their own free will. You just have to trust people. Not sure why you emphasised biology there, don't entirely understand your point.

cfc.forever wrote: »

These are the subjects, which I feel need major reforms, I think the SEC need to constantly review the syllabus of different subjects. Another subject which I did not give a detailed description of that needs a reform is JC Irish, I really think it is neccessary for an Irish oral exam as the reason people learn Irish is to be used on a practical basis, I think most of the exam should be based on the oral and a minority oral. I think in transitition year it should be compulsory to go to a gaeltach and learn Irish.

Orals should probably replace listening. Lots of the people I know did better in mock 2nd year orals my teacher did compared to how they did in the listening. It's just bad, in honesty. Many will disagree with me, but that's where I stand. As for the gaeltacht, I don't think it should be compulsory in transition year if it costs the student the normal price, because not everyone can afford that, especially not when they have all those cool-ass holidays and trips to go on.

cfc.forever wrote: »

The examination system as a whole, I think it would be much cheaper and affordable if it was done through a web portal. Basically I think all examinations should be sat in a massaive computer room, with a supervisor, there is questions, pupils type there answers and it gets submitted and the appropiate examiners can review it. I think this would cost a fortune but in the long run this is very benefical. IPad's need to be implemented in many schools across the country, with students given the oppourtunity to rent them, students should have laptop.

Eh, no opinion. The touch screen is good, I suppose, for classes. Not sure about the exams.

cfc.forever wrote: »

Lastly, have a good summer, this will be my last Junior Cert thread until September when I'm helping out new boardse's. Enjoy the summer, have a good one!

You too!

dalta5billion

Cr4pSnip3r wrote: »

I disagree, if they want to bring in Computer Science, I think it should be completely separate. It's implementation, however, is not a bad idea.

I would personally disagree at present. Teaching 15 y/o's to code is down right stupid if they can't do basic ECDL.

I would agree with a gearing of Project Maths towards practical problems, including Computer Science problems. Like for example, bisection search or small problems like that. Teach the applications of things like functions to CS and other areas.

Having it as a separate subject (for everyone) is lunacy until Ireland's kids get a basic knowledge of how to use a computer (which will happen in X years).

TL;DR Teach basic IT, then coding. For now teach CS-like problems within Project maths syllabus.

cfc.forever

That is not true, a huge percentage of young people know how to code these days and it can be easily taught, you don't even need to be that good at computer applications to code.

dalta5billion

cfc.forever wrote: »

That is not true, a huge percentage of young people know how to code these days and it can be easily taught, you don't even need to be that good at computer applications to code.

Link? Percentage?

I'm talking from my own personal experience. 0.8 % of my school knows how to code (including me). Even 10% (12.5 times greater!), is not a huge percentage.

Agreed, they don't need MS Office skills. But when they can't even do basic file management, they shouldn't be learning how to code. There's no point.

Abstract, problem-solving questions that will benefit both the Computer Science person and people with other professions is the route forward.

It's absolutely alarmist, the common quote that 'everybody needs to learn to code'. Nope. Not everyone needs to learn to code. Have we forgotten the potato, the construction industry?

Relevant article from Paddy Cosgrave

MmmPancakes

Personally, I think that the project maths exam questions should be practical and tricky, although I do not like project maths I was pretty disappointed at the questions on the paper, I mean, remember that skiing question? Tree diagram? what's the point in that, project maths should be aimed at problem solving, you should be able to think independently and not just recite bucketloads of theorems and axioms and all that, leaving cert physics is a good example of how I think project maths should be asked. There was a question on the LC physics paper about why astronaughts in the ISS don't fall to earth, I think, ie it was pretty much asking to state how orbit works, they were in a constant state of freefall, you know that sort of stuff. See how that requires you to think outside of what you've just learned off, I think this would be good for project maths, to disguise what you want behind the question so it's not apparent, you have to think for the answer.

I don't understand, teach coding? why? It's not exactly necessary, not everyone goes into computer science and I can think of better subjects to teach. I'm not sure of your points but why would you teach coding in English? That is like, the farthest thing from English I can think of.

cfc.forever

I don't mean teaching computer science in English but applying more computer applications to english e.g instead of writing, using assistive technology as what can be a major strain on students writing loads is the need to "write" if a student had technology, they would be able to write alot more without having there hands hurt which is the way I think it should be done. Computer Science can be in benefit of many jobs and I think computers are going to be the future, so as a foundation for university, it should be a subject. Were using computers on a daily basis, and we don't know how to work, that is riduclous. Students can start from the basics in first year, and will be more advanced in sixth year. I think its like learning everything, there should be no stigma in learning, its a waste learning how to use microsoft word/office for six years when it can be self-taught, while coding is tricky and would be good for students to learn.

Cr4pSnip3r

dalta5billion wrote: »

I would personally disagree at present. Teaching 15 y/o's to code is down right stupid if they can't do basic ECDL.

I would agree with a gearing of Project Maths towards practical problems, including Computer Science problems. Like for example, bisection search or small problems like that. Teach the applications of things like functions to CS and other areas.

Having it as a separate subject (for everyone) is lunacy until Ireland's kids get a basic knowledge of how to use a computer (which will happen in X years).

TL;DR Teach basic IT, then coding. For now teach CS-like problems within Project maths syllabus.

I don't see why not. You don't jump into coding. It's all the basics and up? Why would you presume they just jump into it? Isn't having a basic knowledge by the end better as a whole than nothing?

dalta5billion

cfc.forever wrote: »

I don't mean teaching computer science in English but applying more computer applications to english e.g instead of writing, using assistive technology as what can be a major strain on students writing loads is the need to "write" if a student had technology, they would be able to write alot more without having there hands hurt which is the way I think it should be done. Computer Science can be in benefit of many jobs and I think computers are going to be the future, so as a foundation for university, it should be a subject. Were using computers on a daily basis, and we don't know how to work, that is riduclous. Students can start from the basics in first year, and will be more advanced in sixth year. I think its like learning everything, there should be no stigma in learning, its a waste learning how to use microsoft word/office for six years when it can be self-taught, while coding is tricky and would be good for students to learn.

Absolutely agree, I don't feel the quality of essays drops when they're typed. Whether or not handwritten stuff should be included - I am indifferent.

Every kid I know is self-taught in coding, it was the only way (CoderDojo didn't exist when I was learning. But guidance would help.)

Problem Solving etc.
-> Coding
-> Other areas

We need to teach problem solving, not specifically coding. Coding means you are specialising too soon IMO.

That doesn't stop schools from having optional coding classes. The whole point of school is to give you a broad range of skills.

You have some very good opinions, would you consider sending them on to the DoE /national curriculum people? I'm sure they appreciate all ideas.

cfc.forever

I'm posting it on boards, when I get feedback I'll try and improve it than send it to the SEC so they can act on the changes. I don't think coding is too advanced though, I think its important to be able to learn it and computer science in general. I think the majority of maths can be done through computer, there is programs where you can actually do algebra, I think it would make students to be able to do much more complex problems quicker, I'm glad you agree with using technology and I think that is definately needed for the future. Teachers also need more training in releation to technology [I don't mean coding] but have a general foundation of it.

Coding can be self-taught but not everyone can teach themselves, so I think it would be great if it was at least an option to take computer science up at JC Level [The basics, and as you get to LC Level more advanced]

spurious

There's already an optional project element in History and Geography, but as far as I know, no schools do the History one, don't know about the Geography.

dalta5billion

Cr4pSnip3r wrote: »

I don't see why not. You don't jump into coding. It's all the basics and up? Why would you presume they just jump into it? Isn't having a basic knowledge by the end better as a whole than nothing?

Problem-solving skills need to be taught broadly as an application to various careers, including CS.

Coding is not a skill that everyone needs to learn at present. If everyone knew how to code, developers wouldn't have a job.
(There's a 60% drop out rate in College CS, due to misconceptions about it. If you want to just build websites, CS is not for you.)

IT skills need to be taught, to a very high level. Coding is optional.

Cr4pSnip3r

dalta5billion wrote: »

Problem-solving skills need to be taught broadly as an application to various careers, including CS.

Coding is not a skill that everyone needs to learn at present. If everyone knew how to code, developers wouldn't have a job.
(There's a 60% drop out rate in College CS, due to misconceptions about it. If you want to just build websites, CS is not for you.)

IT skills need to be taught, to a very high level. Coding is optional.

Aye, that's fair.

positivealf

Damn, I wish I had the opportunity to choose computer studies too. Im entering 5th year soon, is computer science an exam for lc? Really hope it is because im really interested in computers. Cfc, you should print out your suggestions and nail them on the doors of SEC headquarters. Start a reformation

cfc.forever

Sadly its not a subject for the Leaving Cert, I won't go that far for a reformation now, I'm by no means martin luther of the education system, but I will try to open the SEC's eyes.

Jack_OLantern

I like your ideas, you've obviously put a lot of thought into this. I agree with a lot of things you say, but I'm just going to make a couple of points.

Firstly, Irish. You want to send people to the Gaeltacht in TY and improve the oral part. Good. But I don't think that it will solve the problem of Irish. The fact that we've been learning Irish for at least 7/8 years and aren't fluent is an absolute disgrace. How is it possible to have a better understanding of German/French than Irish, which many people, even those who went to a Gaelscoil primary agree with? It's just tought so badly, which is killing the language. It needs to be dealt with at both a Primary and post-Primary level, preferably before the Leaving Cert.

I'd also like to point out that the Junior Cert will be abolished in about 4 years, so I doubt this will help, although I love your ideas. You are spot on about project work, computers and biology. We should be educated towards the future, where we'll have to deal with these things. A lot of the current system is outdated and irrelevant. I think that your ideas would greatly improve it.

cfc.forever

An email has being sent to the State Examination Commision and I will be expecting a response soon, I will keep you boardsie's updated.

Bazinga_N

cfc.forever wrote: »

English - I think this subject is fine in general as a subject. I do think that film/media should be a bigger part of the subject nowdays, I also think IT should be a major part of it. I think the subject should encourage reading books more, and test more on general knowledge in relation to English.

100% agree with using more IT in the classroom. Functional Writing and Media Studies in particular would be taught much better with IT in my opinion. It'd definitely improve the subject. I know a lot of ye are agasint the idea of poetry and drama in the course but I'm the opposite. I think it's highly important to understand the art of language. Maybe a new approach would be beneficial to the course but I don't think they should be scrapped in any way.

History - I think this subject is a very thought-out, well planned subject. I think the questions should continue to be the same, but the document questions should be more tricky as people consider them "easy marks" I think the essays need to be a bit more un-predictable. A research project should definately be compolsoury for Junior Cert History, as it is for the Leaving Cert and would be good preparation for the Leaving Cert.

100% agree with the project and unpredictability.

[

B]Maths -[/B] For the subject as a whole I don't have a flare for the subject, but I think the introduction of Project Maths was good as a a whole. I think probability and statistics need to be implemented well more in maths. I think maths should reform and be more computer-based, where computer science would come into play. Computer Science is a good way in solving problem-anayltical skills, I also think there should be options in releations to maths for Leaving Cert.

I'm not afraid to share my pride. I love Project Maths. I love it. I think it's great! Apart from the odd few awkward questions, I think it's been a success. I wouldn't be in favour of bringing in the CS to maths because those not interested in computers would then see no point in doing the subject. It should definitely be taught as a subject just not integrated into a core one. ASAIK the old HL Leaving Cert course used to have options. Not sure about now..

Geography - Overall I think it is a great subject. I think they need to make Section A in the Higher Level Paper well more trickier, people consider it as "ticking boxes" which is not a good way for the subject to be presented. Again like History, a research project is always benefical.

I love Geography. I think the exam could be made harder though. I think an essay question or something could be added. Project is a great idea too!

Science - I think it is a very good subject, but for Leaving Cert in particular, I think one science subject should be compulsory, I think Biology is a very important subject as a whole. I have not done Biology for Leaving Cert, but your learning about the human body/plants etc its the "study of life" certainly a need for review there.

I personally think the Science course is fine. I'm not happy with the coursework B atm, I don't think it should be a specific investigation but more an investigation you can come up with yourself. I don't get why you'd think Biology is the most important science. Physics and Chemistry are just as important. I do feel as if there's potential for development in the amount of sciences available. Like what about Geology or Psychology or Forensics or Zoology or Marine Biology or Ecology (Not just touching on the subject like in Biology) or Astronomy or Environmental science? There's a ton of opportunities that might spark the interest of students who aren't attracted to Bio, Chem or Phys. I know you couldn't have full courses on each of these but maybe a Further Science course or something where you have to do a study of two or three of these sciences? Anything to really improve Science because it's such a broad and ever-changing subject.

These are the subjects, which I feel need major reforms, I think the SEC need to constantly review the syllabus of different subjects. Another subject which I did not give a detailed description of that needs a reform is JC Irish, I really think it is neccessary for an Irish oral exam as the reason people learn Irish is to be used on a practical basis, I think most of the exam should be based on the oral and a minority oral. I think in transitition year it should be compulsory to go to a gaeltach and learn Irish.

Languages at a whole just need to be improved on. The teaching in this country is catastrophic. We don't learn languages, we learn how to sit an exam. It's disgraceful. I think adding Orals would improve the level of languages greatly. Learning of essays and phrases is crap. Doesn't help the student in any way. Students need to be taught how to use the language in an everyday setting and then they'll be able to sit the exam. I know I'll be spending a large portion of my TY trying to improve my Irish. These last three years have sent my Irish competence down the drain due to rote learning and and re-writing essays. After I left the Gaelscoil in 6th Class I could say everything I could say in English in Irish but now I can barely string a simple sentence together. It's a disgrace and utter shame tbh.

The examination system as a whole, I think it would be much cheaper and affordable if it was done through a web portal. Basically I think all examinations should be sat in a massaive computer room, with a supervisor, there is questions, pupils type there answers and it gets submitted and the appropiate examiners can review it. I think this would cost a fortune but in the long run this is very benefical. IPad's need to be implemented in many schools across the country, with students given the oppourtunity to rent them, students should have laptop.

I like the idea of a modern exam system but I see flaws in most suggestions and wouldn't be happy with the idea until I see a suggestion that fulfills all students needs.


I'd also like to add to cfc.forever's post with some of my suggestions apart from the ones I mentioned above.

I think ICT should be improved greatly. Computer classes atm are a joke in most schools. I think ECDL (or something similar) should be a requirement for all students to receive. Obviously the key issue with that is the lack of funding in most schools, but it's most definitely a requirement for this modern era.

PE needs to refueled as well. I'm not suggesting it should be an exam subject but it needs to be an important element in the curriculum. I'm one of those people who HATES PE, but even I realise the importance of it. It's currently a waste when all that happens in the class is soccer and every now and then a couple of different sports. It should have nutrition involved and a wide range of sports to suit a large range of students. Training and motivation and easy/simple ways for people to keep fit should be taught to students. It's very important to know, especially for today's youth.

I also believed a Life Skills class should be taught. A class where students can not say 'When am I ever going to use this in real life'. Students should be taught how to study, how to swim, basic fitness (I know I said this in PE but again! :P), how to read a map, basic first aid or CPR, basic cooking (not everyone does home-ec), basic household skills (sewing, laundry, etc.), consumer skills, how to manage finance, how to handle job interviews, how to cope with loneliness or stress or bereavement, basic DIY skills, how to make a fire (I am 16 years of age, quite smart (imo :rolleyes:) and yet I don't know how to make a fire. That's embarrassing!), social skills (etiquette and what-not), how to give directions, public speaking, making speeches, how to listen (you'd think it's a skill everyone would have but it's not), how to plan a holiday, how to do research, how to use a camera properly, how to understand the economy, how to drive (obviously for Senior Cycle students). There is so much that can be taught, that really every person should know how to do. Career guidance could also be added to this subject in the Senior Cycle. I'm in no way suggesting this should be made an examination subject either.

Religion, SPHE and CSPE need to be re-evaluated an taught better. They're seen as doss subjects and the point of the subject is missed. CSPE teaches us about the world we live in. SPHE teaches us about ourselves and those around you. Religion teaches us about the importance of faith in the lives of certain people, even if some of us don't believe. They are important and shouldn't be treated less.

Yeah, that's pretty much all I could think of right now. I'll probably think of more later :rolleyes: I'd just like to say though, that the reason a lot of these 'great ideas' can't be implemented is because of the lack of funding available. It's a shame really!

cfc.forever

The govenrment need to cut the wages of the high earners [including them] and put the money towards education and a better future for us people.

greenpyjamas

cfc.forever wrote: »

The govenrment need to cut the wages of the high earners [including them] and put the money towards education and a better future for us people.

Sure isn't that what they've said they'd do for the past few years :rolleyes: Tbh I don't think much will happen in regards to high earners unless the public as a whole do something drastic. Sure aren't the rest of the Europeans slating Ireland for doing nothing about it? If people want change they should really get out and do it the proper way- protests. Although there's cons to it, it usually gets things sorted. Look at Brazil and Turkey, and now Bulgaria are catching on.

DublinArnie

dalta5billion wrote: »

Problem-solving skills need to be taught broadly as an application to various careers, including CS.

Coding is not a skill that everyone needs to learn at present. If everyone knew how to code, developers wouldn't have a job.
(There's a 60% drop out rate in College CS, due to misconceptions about it. If you want to just build websites, CS is not for you.)

IT skills need to be taught, to a very high level. Coding is optional.

You don't really need to know a lot on how to build a proper website, anyone could pick it up within days of constant practice and errors. Doing an entire 4 year course just to learn something a teenager like me can learn in days is a waste.

cfc.forever

That is not entirely true, theres so many languague's in coding that it would be impossible to learn them all in days. It takes years and you need to take into account not everyone can learn as fast as you, I'm talking about the whole education system not a particular person.

A97

Some good points are being made here. Personally, I'm not too fond of the education system. I'll go into detail for each of my Junior Cert subjects and then I'll speak broadly and about other subjects.

English: I'm happy enough with what is taught. My main issue with English (And Irish to a certain extent.) is the poetry, drama and fiction. I completely agree that these three should be taught in schools but the way in which they are examined isn't beneficial to anybody. I'd imagine that the aim of learning about books, plays and poems is to teach us about good writing, life lessons and most importantly, a love for literature and creative works as well as appreciation. The current exam structure completely negates that. Learning off quotes for the purposes of exams helped in ruining my enjoyment of my book, play and poems. I don't think that quotations should be necessary when answering questions. I realise that this is important when referencing the work of other people but in a "real life" circumstance, you would be able to find the paticular paper you need for your report or project. Besides, wouldn't it be a bit odd if you met somebody who could recite lines and lines of a television show?

A smaller issue relates to the type of the questions that are asked. For example, I chose to deal with this earlier this month:

Junior Certificate English - Higher Level 2013 wrote:

Choose a novel or short story you have studied.

(a) In your view, is the world portrayed in the novel or short story that you
have chosen, a fair world? Give reasons for your answer. (15)

(b) Using an important incident from the story, explain how the actions of
any one character help to make the world more fair or less fair in your
chosen text. Support your answer with reference to your chosen text. (15)

As a side note, obtaining this took me less than a minute to do. Wouldn't it be strange if I were able to recite the whole thing? It also would have sufficed for me to just describe the questions as opposed to directly quoting it.

Anyway, I feel that the question is ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with what's being asked, and it was perfect for To Kill A Mockingbird, but how exactly does being able to answer this question benefit me in any way? I'm aware of the Functional Writing section, but surely better questions than this could be used. I had the option of doing the other question of course, but I felt like that one suited me more, particularly since I had an abundance of relevant quotes to support my point. Something such as a review or a reflection of how you felt and what you learned from your literature would be a better question. These have occasionally appeared before, but not frequently. The fact that "Tom's left arm was fully twelve inches shorter than his right" won't help anybody, but telling people what I thought of the book and things such as recommendations do.

On a final note, I dread the amount of poetry coming my way next year. Learning about many (Around 30?!) different poems and drilling quotes into my mind will do nothing but encourage me never to look at poetry again. They're clearly doing something wrong if that's how I feel. That's the problem with exams. It turns something expressive and enjoyable like poetry into something dull, dry and monotonous. My only goal for the Junior Cert was to learn off some quotes that would suit the types of questions asked. I'd imagine many others feel this way, and I doubt many read poetry for fun after their Junior or Leaving Cert.

Introducing an IT aspect to English may be a good idea, for things such as emails, Word etc but I'd prefer a specific IT subject for that.

Irish: This (As well as our other languages.) is clearly done completely wrong. People spend 13 or 14 years in school learning Irish and they're not fluent. That is completely ridiculous. Speaking the language needs to become a focus, and orals should be compusory for Junior Cert. (It will be gone soon enough though.) We need to learn more practically. We need to learn what we actually want to say, and be able to use Irish in practical situations. We should be able to get by in Irish. We should be able to order food, drinks, understand road signs, watch TG4 for fun etc. I don't really know what I learned in Junior Cert Irish, or whether there is some sort of curriculum to follow other that the obligatory poetry and prose. Having said that, I prefer how the prose is done in Junior Cert Irish. There are no quotes. You merely have to talk about how your story relates to a certain theme. I didn't, but I know that many people learned off essays, letters and studied poem/book answers. This applies to English too. This doesn't support the Irish language. It only amplifies your hate for it. Language learning needs to be fun and practical.

Everybody aside from those with mental disabilities are able to pick up a language when they're very young. I'm no language expert, but obviously how we learn our first language works. That's probably due to immersion. If I were surrounded by Irish for a couple of years with no access to English, I'd imagine that I'd be able to pick it up. I notice that when I think of "cow" for example, I covertly imagine the animal. However, when I think of "bó", I think "cow" and not the animal. The first language goes back to what something is, while subsequent languages go back to the first language.

Irish needs to be taught properly from an early age. I didn't learn very much Irish in Junior or Senior Infants, or even beyond that. If it were done properly, and I don't exactly know what properly is, a lot more progress would be made. Anyway, I think that more emphasis has to go into speaking, and less into verb and grammar tables. We should get the basic ability to speak the language first, and then we should perfect it. Young Irish children (And even older people.) don't speak English perfectly, but they're understandable. That's what we have to strive for, and then we can move past that.

Solution; I don't know. Look at a multilingual country like the Netherlands and see what they do. Copy it. I'd love to be able to speak Irish, and I think that all Irish people should be able to speak it, but I don't see that ever happening, especially since people have such a negative attitude towards it, much like I do for something like poetry. It probably shouldn't be forced upon people, but more on that later.

Maths: Personally, I preferred the old syllabus to Project Maths, but oh well. I don't have much of a problem with Maths, but many others do. This is also something that I feel shouldn't be forced upon people as hatred just comes from it.

I can't really find too many faults in the course, so I can't go on a huge rant like others might. Maybe a little more clarification as to what Maths is for and how it benefits us. Project Maths is doing this, but incorrectly.

Geography: I don't have much of an issue here either, aside from the fact that I feel everything that I learned won't ever help me. I liked the physical geography section. Finding out how the world works, especially weather. the atmosphere and climate is very interesting and I'll take that from the course if nothing else. Things like rivers and glaciers were interesting, but my detailed knowledge of oxbow lakes will never help me.

Map reading is a useful skill, but it's taught all wrong. Once again, knowing why a town settled somewhere or why there are forests in badly drained areas are useless to me. Being able to get to point A to B however is quite useful, as well as knowledge of roads and I guess landforms to a certain extent is of practical use to me. Aerial photographs deserve no place on the course as far as I'm concerned. A more practical usage of maps should be taught.

Economic geography is okay, but it is taught in too much detail. 100 pages in my Geography book = 10 pages in my Business Studies book. Once again, my knowledge of Intel is of no use to me. I found this section to be quite boring. I'm sure that some of you will agree. Economic inequality and development is important however. It's mainly primary, secondary and tertiary economic activities that cause the problem.

Social geography is also important to learn about, but once again, it goes into far too much detail about nothing. We need to learn how to make a difference, not just why much of the world is in such a bad shape. I also found this to be boring and I'm not the only one. Subjects should be taught to appeal to students while getting the genuinely important information across. Something like a project in Geography could be a good idea, or a merge with a subject like CSPE to get the important aspects of both, removing the less important bits.

CSPE: The course content is perfectly fine. I feel that a political education is very important. The problem relates to the exam as well as the attitude of both students and teachers toward the subject. The exam is really easy, and people know that, so they know that they can get away with not knowing very much of the course. The exam is seen as a joke and it's considered a doss subject. Therefore, the attitude towards the subject is poor. It's not seen as important. There isn't even a Leaving Cert follow-on subject. The exam needs to be made harder, at least in the sense that you need to know the course to do well. Most people don't know the difference between a solicitor and barrister and quite frankly, nobody seems to care.

The other issue is teachers. I don't know about everybody, but I wasn't at all happy with my teacher. We didn't finish the course and our Action Project was pitiful. No real action was taken. We didn't help anybody and we hardly learned anything from it. That completely eliminates the purpose of it.

Business Studies: I have no real problems with this course. It does go into too much detail here and there about superficial things but I could say that 90% of what I learned will actually stand to me now and in the future. Not everybody likes it though, so there's always some room for improvement.

History: I'm really fond of History. It's something that I enjoyed learning most of the way through. The third year topics didn't pique my interest as much and that's one reason why I'm not keeping it on. Admitedly, it could be described as the most pointless subject on the syllabus but I think that various (Not all.) of the aspects that we learn about are useful to our well-rounded education and we can learn from the past. I know that some people have a problem with the vastness of the course so perhaps it could be cut down a bit in favour of a project that could allow us to work with sources, to do reseach etc. Things that archaeologists and historians actually do. I realise that this is explored at Leaving Cert. As a side note, I feel that Leaving Cert History is poorly done, and more topics should be explorable. It baffles me how unpoplular Early Modern is. All in all, there are no real issues with the subject as is at Junior Cert level for anybody who puts in any work.

Science: I feel that the course at Junior Cert level is fine currently. It gives students a basic and well rounded education of the sciences and how things work, from the smallest organism to things like electrical and gravitational forces. Students are then able to continue studying none to all of the sciences at Leaving Cert in more depth, depending on their interests. It may be nice if people could specifically do subjects like geology, microbiology, astrophysics etc. The failure rate is quite high, but I'd put that down to people who don't put in the work and those who don't submit coursework. That's down to people, not the subject. Having said that, the exam is very unforgiving, and there's no room for waffle. (Or room for actually writing your answers down on the exam paper, usually.)

Religion: This has been well implemented, much better than CSPE was. It's a significant improvement over "Catholicism" that was taught before. It allows us to learn about all of the major religions from a historical aspect as well as learning about peoples' faith and how that influences them, others and everyday life. We learn how to be good people and how religion influences that. We learn why some people believe and why some people don't. The issues with the subject is the "doss" factor also suffered by CSPE, the horribly worded questions in the exam papers and the extreme amount of waffle required to fill up the answer book. It's perfectly fine otherwise though. Like CSPE again, I felt that the coursework was a waste of time though and I gained nothing from it. I also personally feel that Christianity shouldn't be given a specific section while the other religions get one to share between them. The way that it is currently structured means that you must study one world religion, with the option to do another provided that one of your two religions is Christianity. I don't really feel like that's fair. I also wouldn't mind if we studied things like religious cults, terrorism and religious wars, schisms etc but that's no huge issue. I'm happy with my religious education.

Technical Graphics: I have no issues with this course whatsoever. If I were to have any complaints, it would be that a little more CAD was taught.

Spanish: This applies to all foreign languages. I feel like these subjects are better taught than Irish but not significantly. Much of what I said about Irish applies here and the same technique should be applied to your other language. Orals have to be done and we need to learn how to use the language in a practical sense. Sadly, only so much can be achieved through the classroom, and immersion is needed. People need to have a passion for the language, the country or foreign people to do well. The point has to be made that a language is a way to get ahead in the world, a gateway to travel and a way to make new friends. Grammar, verbs and vocabulary lists are the best way to suck the soul out of language learning, and this is how to ruin the fun which should be associated with learning a language. It can't really be done in an academic setting successfully.

With regards to other subjects, I think that the introduction of subjects like IT would be a good idea. The primary issue would be funding. Learning how to use a computer should be taught by schools. I do like the idea of a subject that teaches general life skills. Now that the Junior Cert is over, I can say that about half of what I learned will never be any use to be and I feel like that is a waste. My knowledge of oxbow lakes trumps my knowledge of ironing or clothes washing. These's something fundamentally wrong with that. I'd like a subject like that. I realise that Home Economics exists, and maybe the core aspects of that should be made compulsory as well as other things like DIY, being a consumer etc. All of these are covered in various subjects, but with all of the cumpulsory subjects that we do, it's impossible to learn all of this through school unless you did about 15 subjects. A lot could be cut from the syllabi in favour of more useful things. Subjects like PE and SPHE are need of major reform. Physical Education in particular is very important and I think that if done correctly, it could be a proper, beneficial school subject. I dislike PE in its current form, but with obesity and other health problems in Ireland, somewhere where we learn about health and how to actively take care of ourselves merits a place in the education system.

Finally, I do like the concept of our "well-rounded" Junior Cert. I do feel that Irish, English, Maths and a Continental Language should be taken by all students for the Junior Cert as well as circa seven other subjects. Maybe some generic subject that covers basic life needs could be compulsory also. People shouldn't be forced to do something that they don't want to do though and that's why the likes of History, Geography, Science, Religion and CSPE aren't on my compulsory list as well potential new subjects like IT and PE. For Leaving Cert, I don't feel like anything should be compulsory. People should be free to study what they want. That would greatly increase the enthusiasm in each specific subject and people would learn what they'd like to learn. There's no point in doing something if you have no interest in it and if you'll never use it in everyday life. I know people who just can't manage Irish, Maths, Science etc so why should they be forced to do it? They'd be better off doing something that will help them contribute to themselves and the world around them. College courses can retain their requirements, but it's unnecessary to ask for Irish, English, Maths and a third language if the course doesn't require it. Of course, a basic knowledge of English or Irish is required if that's the language that you're being educated through, but otherwise, there's no point inhaving such an in-depth knowledge of the language.

More than half of people do Maths and Irish at Ordinary Level for Leaving Cert. Surely they'd be better off doing something else. It can generally be seen that choice subjects get better results anyway:

http://www.careersportal.ie/ed_training/results_2012.php?course_id=26&ed_sub_cat_id=7&course_name=Physics&search1=physics&search2

TL;DR Copy Finland's education system. We have no money anyway so none of these ideas will ever get anywhere.

MysticManiac

English - I like English and like the way that it is teached. There is no problem with English in my opinion.

Irish - Irish does have a couple of problems. The first problem is the Prós and Filíocht, which doesn't tell the examiner anything about if you understand what the story/poem means. You can basically translate it into English and learn it that way, or just learn off answers, and the same themes/emotions come up all the time. Another problem is the lack of Irish learned in Primary School. I am in an all Irish speaking secondary school now, but I went to an English speaking Primary school, and learned next to no Irish there. In 1st year, I had trouble just getting by from day to day, but eventually after a year in the school, my Irish developed. But still, English is my more supreme language, as A97 said, when I think of 'cow' I think of the animal, but when I think of 'bó', I think of the english word 'cow' first.

Maths - The new Project Maths course is a little too big. Other than that, it's fine

History - No problems with History. One thing I will say, is that Q5 can often be a very low scoring round because you must answer ALL questions and it is based on only ONE topic (as opposed to docs/pics/short questions etc). Many candidates may leave out certain topics and fall behind on this question. Also, a lot of History books/notes are not clear on what exactly happened and it can be hard to write on a certain topic if you're not exactly sure of what the notes are saying

Geography - I think this is just a VERY boring subject. It teaches you about very boring topics, like Population, Soil, Weather... When's the last time you wanted to learn about soil? Also, there's a very large range of topics which are taught, but you only learn a couple of things about each topic. It's basically random facts. Also, the exam layout is very bad. Short Questions are all multiple choice, and there are usually a few questions (e.g barcharts/graphs) which anybody can get without knowing anything about Geography. Also, the case studies are useless. Why would you need to know about them?

Science - I think this course is good, but the Coursework A is free marks but just VERY BORING and may result in people losing interest for Leaving Cert Science subjects. Also, some excellent students could get very few marks in coursework, while some awful students could get next to full marks in coursework because teachers pretty much spoon feed these students and end up neglecting the good students. There must be a way to actually tell how much work each student put in, and whether they did the work themselves, or if it was pretty much their teacher, friends etc. Students and teachers focus on getting the coursework done, instead of focusing on learning something

CSPE - The exam is fine, it is quite easy but it gives people confidence. When they feel that they do good in CSPE, they might get motivated to do good in other exams. But the Action Project is awful. You learn nothing from it, and when you're writing it out, you basically write the same thing as everyone else but try to make sure you're not writing it in the same words as everyone else.

Technology - I decided to do this subject cause I thought it would be fun to learn about things that are technology based. Turns out, it's the most boring subject ever

Music - The Set Works and Chosen Works are a lot of work and are useless. What could you possible get out of learning about this!? Also, the Irish Music is horrible. If I wanted to learn about History, I'd just go to History class!

Business Studies The Accounting part of the course is EXTREMELY BORING and anybody who could choose to continue with Accounting for Leaving Cert after doing Final Accounts and Club Accounts for the Junior Cert is insane

French I assume this goes for the other languages, (I don't do them so I wouldn't know) but I prefer the way that these are done than Irish. Most people (excluding people who went to an All-Irish speaking school) don't know any more Irish than other languages, because they learn no Irish at all in Primary School. I have no clue why the Irish paper is ALL in Irish (EVEN FOR FOUNDATION LEVEL) but the French, German, Spanish and Italian papers are in English, and you are only required to write in another language for the Written section

Edward9

Teachers deserve a lot of credit