2013-14 Uefa Champions League

snowblind

That's because everyone loves hyperbole nowadays.

Serie A has been great this season. Lots of teams building towards greatness, with great tacticians and exciting new players. Performances in the CL have been unsatisfying, yeah, and you'll hear lots of people who only follow EPL/CL to throw words like crisis around just by looking at a CL livescore table.

CL showcases only some of these teams, and the teams still have a priority to perform in their own national league, week in, week out. The best performer in CL for Serie A is currently 22 points from top position after 15 matches and that team is run horridly, with a far more insecure outlook for future than for the likes of Fiorentina, Napoli, Juventus, Roma.

It's a great league, I can't get into EPL at all even when it's trying to enroach me from every outlet around me, but Serie A is great, you should try it

delija_sever029

Honestly i would rather say La liga is crap.....every year it all goes around Barca and Real like in Scottish league earlier....this season i support Atletico with all my heart to make some surprise,except these 3 league is pretty bad,Sevilla,Valencia and others r just too weak....i am not big fan of Serie A either but its definitly more interesting with Juve,Inter,Napoli and this season very good Fiorentina and Roma,if Milan was any better we would have hell in top5. Not saying they are top quality teams but still league is having more than 2 equal teams....

GTR63

delija_sever029 wrote: »

I wonder when italians werent in crisis? in 90's?

Berlusconi took over as PM in the mid 90's (I think) so italians have been in suffering since then. Wouldn't say the C word as that may imply that Milan because they got through are the best team in Italy when we aren't even in the Top 3 now.

snowblind

delija_sever029 wrote: »

Honestly i would rather say La liga is crap.....every year it all goes around Barca and Real like in Scottish league earlier....this season i support Atletico with all my heart to make some surprise,except these 3 league is pretty bad,Sevilla,Valencia and others r just too weak....i am not big fan of Serie A either but its definitly more interesting with Juve,Inter,Napoli and this season very good Fiorentina and Roma,if Milan was any better we would have hell in top5. Not saying they are top quality teams but still league is having more than 2 equal teams....

And no one is saying Spanish football is in crisis.

Italian football is in crisis, Italian teams play catenaccio, Juventus is a disgrace, Italian players are divers - old cliches that people who do not think critically spout like Berlusconi spouts lies

AdamD

snowblind wrote: »

Please, tell us more of the disgrace? Them not being a Premier League team?

Nope, a little more to do with this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Italian_football_scandal

snowblind

AdamD wrote: »

Nope, a little more to do with this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Italian_football_scandal

Hmm, that seems to refer to something that happened more than 7 years ago, and it appears that since then the team has changed their management. Did you accidentally paste in a wrong link?

delija_sever029

GTR63 wrote: »

Berlusconi took over as PM in the mid 90's (I think) so italians have been in suffering since then. Wouldn't say the C word as that may imply that Milan because they got through are the best team in Italy when we aren't even in the Top 3 now.

Milan isnt Serie A,maybe they are not good now but for example Napoli made a very good team,dont see italian league being worse just coz Milan sucks

delija_sever029

snowblind wrote: »

And no one is saying Spanish football is in crisis.

Exactly,this is what i really dont understand,everyone complain over Serie A quality and nobody mention la liga,why? coz Barca and Real are having super teams? this league is boring coz you watch it just to see whos gonna be 3rd.....Napoli is a very good refreshment in Italy and Inter could come back too with new owner,Milan wont be able to keep going like this and soon they will also have to find some investors,i dont see quality will keep droping as long as Juve and Napoli are going on with good transfers

AdamD

snowblind wrote: »

Hmm, that seems to refer to something that happened more than 7 years ago, and it appears that since then the team has changed their management. Did you accidentally paste in a wrong link?

No I did not, its still the same club which I won't be having sympathy for any time soon.

Morzadec

Morzadec wrote: »

Seriously?

Atletico are there on absolute merit and are certainly in the top 8 teams in Europe at the moment. They've drawn 2 and lost 1 all season in all competitions!


No one will want to face them.


Milan on the other hand seem to be a shadow of their former selves judging by their recent results and nowhere near the quality of the top 8.


Arsenal vs Atleti would be a great game, I'd love to see it. 2 pretty evenly matched teams with two completely contrasting styles and two great managers with different philosophies.

Would be a superb, intriguing and entertaining tie imo, and a really good barometer for both teams to test where they are after surprising a lot of people this season

I don't deny they deserve to be where they are on form but a lack of experience may be their undoing. Also I did say "might". :P

snowblind

AdamD wrote: »

No I did not, its still the same club which I won't be having sympathy for any time soon.

What's your team? No dirt in the history at all? All teams have had people abusing their power in their management.

In Calciopoli's case there were other teams as well implicated, but they managed to escape proper punishment due to statute of limitations. There is a widely held opinion that the way football authorities handled Calciopoli was a disgrace - not because Juventus did not do anything wrong, but because what was done wrong was a common practice and in Calciopoli juventus were the scapegoat. The Juventus management could have fought, but due to power struggles in Juve it didn't happen and it was a convenient time for a take down. After that, cabinet was cleared, unlike in other teams implicated. Or other teams around Europe who have skeletons in their closets and the door is creaking.

NIMAN

So people will never like some teams.

Sure you still hear idiots talking about Real Madrid and Franco.

Moneymaker

mike65 wrote: »

Italian football in crisis again.

How many Serie A games have you watched this season?

Napoli got 12 points and failed to qualify. They couldn't do much more really. Milan got through(despite being the worst Milan team in about 13-14 years)

The national team and setup is in a FAR better position then it was going into the last World Cup.

Football fans today are just silly.

GTR63

Milan vs Atletico
Arsenal vs Bayern
City vs Barca
Leverkusen vs PSG
Schalke vs Real
Olympiakos vs Man Utd
Galatasaray vs Chelsea
Zenit vs Dortmund

mike65

GTR63 wrote: »

Milan vs Atletico
Arsenal vs Bayern
City vs Barca
Leverkusen vs PSG
Schalke vs Real
Olympiakos vs Man Utd
Galatasaray vs Chelsea
Zenit vs Dortmund

I reckon (okay nothing too radical there)

delija_sever029

Pretty equal opponents,i like it,looking forward to Milan-Atletico

Lovely Bloke

another easy draw for ManYoo omg dey always get it, corrupt EUFA omg

GLaDOS

City and Barca the pick of the rounds, goals galore quite likely! They'll need to avoid getting spanked in the Camp Nou though, given their away form.

EuropeanSon

Someone up there really has it in for us. Used to be we drew Barca, now it's Bayern. When the next team becomes the best team in Europe, it'll be them.

That'll learn Wenger the importance of winning the group. Or not. F*ck sake.

miralize

Fair draw. Planning a trip to the Etihad as I type.

delija_sever029

Galatasaray could be tough one for blues.....

dreamers75

@uefacorruption

Check yesterdays tweets

Johner

They tweeted all the possible outcomes and just deleted them all after the draw apart from the ones that came out.

Rayne Wooney

Johner wrote: »

They tweeted all the possible outcomes and just deleted them all after the draw apart from the ones that came out.

But you don't need a tin foil hat for your logic, where's the fun in that

Some great draws. Hopefully the English clubs can stay in as long as possible.

Francie Barrett

Once again, Wenger making a balls of the group stages of the CL has come back to haunt him.

Smithwicks Man

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Once again, Wenger making a balls of the group stages of the CL has come back to haunt him.

Can somebody explain to me how Wenger made a balls of the group stage?

Napoli were easily the better side in Naples. It's not like Wenger rested half the team and then they lost, they were outplayed

.jacksparrow.

Any dates confirmed yet?

byronbay2

It just reinforces the importance of winning your group: Chelsea and Man U get good draws, Arsenal and City get fúcked up! Still, I don't think Barcelona and Bayern will be delighted with their draws either. Can definitely see City getting through, would be less confident about Arsenal.

miralize

byronbay2 wrote: »

It just reinforces the importance of winning your group: Chelsea and Man U get good draws, Arsenal and City get fúcked up! Still, I don't think Barcelona and Bayern will be delighted with their draws either. Can definitely see City getting through, would be less confident about Arsenal.

Definitely? As in nailed on to get through?

LuckyLloyd

mike65 wrote: »

I reckon (okay nothing too radical there)

Straight chalk? Despite all of the 'seeds' being favourites to varying extents the liklehood is that at least one of them lose somewhere.

Milan vs Atletico
Arsenal vs Bayern
City vs Barca
Leverkusen vs PSG
Schalke vs Real
Olympiakos vs Man Utd
Galatasaray vs Chelsea
Zenit vs Dortmund

City are damn good and will be in the unusual position of having no pressure on them. It says Milan on the jerseys. And the first leg in Greece will be tough (it would be tough for anyone). Unless Utd really sort their stuff out that tie could come amongst a fair amount of pressure so you never know.

I'm not saying those three will definitely win, but they have a chance.

Some great ties anyway, looking forward to it already!!

The_Kew_Tour

Ya I dont think United are sure thing to go through. Although it was best draw we could get.

Think City will beat Barca.

Blatter

9/4 on City to qualify v Barca is huge. Barca are definitely not the team they were 2-3 years ago, City are immense at the minute. It's a really close one to call imo.

Turtwig

Pep's teams usually face a form dip in Feb/March due to how ridiculously hard he works them. Well, his old team did anyway. So I'd be cautiously optimistic for Arsenal. Last year they showed they could match them. In fact, there seems to be a pattern: Any team Arsenal "almost" eliminate seems to win!
Their defence is far better than last season and if they sit deep and try to hit Bayern on counters they might puncture some wounds. I'd actually give Arsenal a decent chance over the two legs.
If they can maintain form Atletico will thump Milan. Hope so too, because Napoli got it very harsh.
Chelsea and Man Utd got theirs relatively easy. All Chelsea have to do is learn to defend properly. Sit back and hit Gala on the counter because they over expose themselves far too much. Man Utd's opponents are very poor. Though given United's current form, who actually knows. It seems highly unlikely though.
City knocking Barca out might be the best thing for both teams. Barca are slowly improving but any direction in improvement is usually booed by idealogues who think Barca should still play the way they played 3 years ago. Martino is slowly changing style and he has a reputation of making his teams very hard to beat. So far that's showing. Barca's defence is better than it has been in some time. It's only when they play their old game of yonder that they actually look vulnerable. The hybrid that they play with the mix of pressing high and sitting deep is very effective. If it was any other club they'd probably be adapted to that by now but every time they "sit deep" they get criticised. The manager's job really is a thankless one.
City on the other hand have improved vastly under Pelligrini. Away form is still suspect but at home they're terrifying. Only problem they have is their midfield is a bit thin. Bayern over ran it with ease and I expect Barca could do so too. So it'll depend largely on how well city's defence has improved.
Madrid have should do the business, but I think their playing style leaves them a little more vulnerable than they perhaps should be.
PSG and Dortmund seem no brainers.

kksaints

Jernal wrote: »

Pep's teams usually face a form dip in Feb/March due to how ridiculously hard he works them. Well, his old team did anyway. So I'd be cautiously optimistic for Arsenal. Last year they showed they could match them. In fact, there seems to be a pattern: Any team Arsenal "almost" eliminate seems to win!
Their defence is far better than last season and if they sit deep and try to hit Bayern on counters they might puncture some wounds. I'd actually give Arsenal a decent chance over the two legs.
If they can maintain form Atletico will thump Milan. Hope so too, because Napoli got it very harsh.
Chelsea and Man Utd got theirs relatively easy. All Chelsea have to do is learn to defend properly. Sit back and hit Gala on the counter because they over expose themselves far too much. Man Utd's opponents are very poor. Though given United's current form, who actually knows. It seems highly unlikely though.
City knocking Barca out might be the best thing for both teams. Barca are slowly improving but any direction in improvement is usually booed by idealogues who think Barca should still play the way they played 3 years ago. Martino is slowly changing style and he has a reputation of making his teams very hard to beat. So far that's showing. Barca's defence is better than it has been in some time. It's only when they play their old game of yonder that they actually look vulnerable. The hybrid that they play with the mix of pressing high and sitting deep is very effective. If it was any other club they'd probably be adapted to that by now but every time they "sit deep" they get criticised. The manager's job really is a thankless one.
City on the other hand have improved vastly under Pelligrini. Away form is still suspect but at home they're terrifying. Only problem they have is their midfield is a bit thin. Bayern over ran it with ease and I expect Barca could do so too. So it'll depend largely on how well city's defence has improved.
Madrid have should do the business, but I think their playing style leaves them a little more vulnerable than they perhaps should be.
PSG and Dortmund seem no brainers.

Why should Milan get hammered because of what happened to Napoli?

Turtwig

kksaints wrote: »

Why should Milan get hammered because of what happened to Napoli?

Because Ajax should probably have qualified. Napoli did way more than Milan effort and performance wise just didn't get the results. So, in many ways, it feels a bit wrong to both teams that Milan are there. They've been absolutely dire so far.
It's totally irrational I know.

Edit: Forgot to add. I also want it because some people aren't yet taking Atleti seriously. If they trounce Milan it might make some of the pundits get the message.

Blatter

I'd be careful with thinking that Arsenal matched Bayern last season. I don't think they did at all.

Yes they won the return leg 2-0 but I think you can mostly attribute that result to Bayern taking the foot off the pedal and being too complacent.

In the first leg at the Emirates (when all was to play for) Bayern dominated them. They're by far the better side and I wouldn't give Arsenal much of a chance against them at all.

Turtwig

Blatter wrote: »

I'd be careful with thinking that Arsenal matched Bayern last season. I don't think they did at all.

Yes they won the return leg 2-0 but I think you can mostly attribute that result to Bayern taking the foot off the pedal and being too complacent.

In the first leg at the Emirates (when all was to play for) Bayern dominated them. They're by far the better side and I wouldn't give Arsenal much of a chance against them at all.

I thought it was mix of both. Bayern dominated them in the first leg but Arsenal were also below par. In the second leg, Bayern were far too complacent but Arsenal played a lot better too. They made it more of an even contest and they made it a lot harder for Bayern to exploit them they way they did in the first leg. Even if it meant the match looked more boring as a result.

Blatter

Jernal wrote: »

I thought it was mix of both. Bayern dominated them in the first leg but Arsenal were also below par. In the second leg, Bayern were far too complacent but Arsenal played a lot better too. They made it more of an even contest and they made it a lot harder for Bayern to exploit them they way they did in the first leg. Even if it meant the match looked more boring as a result.

I think the difference is that Arsenal were below bar in the first leg because of Bayern. They made them look average. Bayern were below par in the second leg because of Bayern!

If you look at what they did to City away from home, absolutely dominated them and won 3-1. That level of performance was frightening and I don't think Arsenal are capable of producing anything near that.

Of course Arsenal can still win as football is full of variance but I'd struggle to give them higher than a 20% chance.

Turtwig

Blatter wrote: »

I think the difference is that Arsenal were below bar in the first leg because of Bayern. They made them look average. Bayern were below par in the second leg because of Bayern!

If you look at what they did to City away from home, absolutely dominated them and won 3-1. That level of performance was frightening and I don't think Arsenal are capable of producing anything near that.

Of course Arsenal can still win as football is full of variance but I'd struggle to give them higher than a 20% chance.

I still think there was mix. Bayern certainly made Arsenal look poorer than they were but I thought that tactically Arsenal made it too easy for Bayern. In the second leg, they didn't play as much into Bayern's hands. Funny thing is I'd only give them about 25% chance too.

764dak

That's a load of rubbish. Bayern didn't make Arsenal look poor. Arsenal was poor. Blackburn defeated Arsenal just a few days before the first leg.

Blatter

764dak wrote: »

That's a load of rubbish. Bayern didn't make Arsenal look poor. Arsenal was poor. Blackburn defeated Arsenal just a few days before the first leg.

The Blackburn match is pretty much irrelevant. Wenger played mostly a second string side in thst game.

Bayern were class and made Arsenal look a far worse side than they were just like they did with City earlier in the season.

AdamD

It is worth noting that Vermaelen at LB, Walcott at ST and Ramsey at RW was hardly a vintage Arsenal side that played the first leg. Not saying they wouldn't have won but the gulf in class wasn't helped by a dodgy Arsenal XI, Bayern's 3rd was one of the flukier goals you'll see too.

dundalkfc10

Jernal wrote: »

Because Ajax should probably have qualified. Napoli did way more than Milan effort and performance wise just didn't get the results. So, in many ways, it feels a bit wrong to both teams that Milan are there. They've been absolutely dire so far.
It's totally irrational I know.

Edit: Forgot to add. I also want it because some people aren't yet taking Atleti seriously. If they trounce Milan it might make some of the pundits get the message.

Ajax drew with Milan twice (one of them games, Milan were down to 10 for over 1 hour), beat Celtic and a Barca team who were already qualified.

To say Ajax should have probably qualified ahead of Milan is just plain wrong

Turtwig

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Ajax drew with Milan twice (one of them games, Milan were down to 10 for over 1 hour), beat Celtic and a Barca team who were already qualified.

To say Ajax should have probably qualified ahead of Milan is just plain wrong

Ajax were unlucky and they were the better team. They would have beaten Milan in one of those games but for a dubious penalty decision. In the second game Ajax should arguably have faced less than 10 men. Once Milan got the red the ref was very soft towards them.

I recognise that the best doesn't always qualify, but my point was on the basis that the best should qualify Ajax should have. Milan were tripe.

764dak

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Ajax drew with Milan twice (one of them games, Milan were down to 10 for over 1 hour), beat Celtic and a Barca team who were already qualified.

To say Ajax should have probably qualified ahead of Milan is just plain wrong

Milan received a dubious penalty in stoppage time to equalize against Ajax in the first game. The Milan player fouled the Ajax defender but the referee called a foul against Ajax instead.

GTR63

Jernal wrote: »

Ajax were unlucky and they were the better team. They would have beaten Milan in one of those games but for a dubious penalty decision. In the second game Ajax should arguably have faced less than 10 men. Once Milan got the red the ref was very soft towards them.

I recognise that the best doesn't always qualify, but my point was on the basis that the best should qualify Ajax should have. Milan were tripe.

We had Ten men for an hour last week and yet they still couldn't score. Get over it

dundalkfc10

GTR63 wrote: »

We had Ten men for an hour last week and yet they still couldn't score. Get over it

But sure they deserved and are "Better" than Milan according to some on here.

With the fans Ajax have (trouble at every game this season in CL 6 out of 6) They sghould be kicked out of Europe never mind deserving of a last 16 place

billyhead

I think only Man Utd and City will qualify from the English teams. Bayern will probaly win it outright with Athletico dark horses

batistuta9

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

But sure they deserved and are "Better" than Milan according to some on here.

With the fans Ajax have (trouble at every game this season in CL 6 out of 6) They sghould be kicked out of Europe never mind deserving of a last 16 place

stabbed themselves in Milan did they? Crazy Bastards