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Banks approach to outstanding service fees

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  • 24-06-2013 4:54pm
    #1
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭


    A bank selling a property in our estate is claiming that they are only responsible for outstanding fees from when they formally took reposession. Surely all debt is against the property and not any specific person. It is comforting to see banks try to get out of paying outstanding debt when they dont like the idea of other people doing it.

    Any one have any other experience in this? Sounds like rubbish and they are trying it on. Banks surely own the property until the loan is paid off? Its not like repossession is like a normal conveyancing process, i.e. new contract lease documents are not signed by all parties and then again when the bank eventually ells the property.


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    #2
    StillWaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    Have the MC registered the debt against the property? The new purchaser won't complete until all outstanding service charges are discharged.


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    #3
    Citycap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 200 ✭✭Citycap


    StillWaters wrote: »
    Have the MC registered the debt against the property? The new purchaser won't complete until all outstanding service charges are discharged.

    That's the answer. The bank has taken possession so they are responsible. Make sure that the Management Company interest as well. If you don't get the outstanding amount before the sale you can wave it bye bye.


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    #4
    Bluegrass1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 97 ✭✭Bluegrass1


    Citycap wrote: »
    That's the answer. The bank has taken possession so they are responsible. Make sure that the Management Company interest as well. If you don't get the outstanding amount before the sale you can wave it bye bye.

    The new owner can be made pay.


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    #5
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Bluegrass1 wrote: »
    The new owner can be made pay.

    No they cant. If there is no charge on the property the new owner gets clean title free of debt and if there is a charge on the property it has to be cleared before any sale completes so that they get said clean title.


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    #6
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    StillWaters wrote: »
    Have the MC registered the debt against the property? The new purchaser won't complete until all outstanding service charges are discharged.

    sounds to me like the OP and their MC haven't a clue how to properly manage the situation.

    If they did they wouldn't worry about what the bank says as the charge would prevent any property sale which in turn forces the bank to clear the outstanding debt.


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    #7
    Bluegrass1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 97 ✭✭Bluegrass1


    D3PO wrote: »
    No they cant. If there is no charge on the property the new owner gets clean title free of debt and if there is a charge on the property it has to be cleared before any sale completes so that they get said clean title.

    There doesn't have to be a registered charge. What the new owner gets is an assignment of the lease. The new owner is bound by all the covenants of the lease. Any outstanding obligations to the landlord i.e. the management company service fees fall on the new owner. The solicitor for the purchaser of an interest in a lease always insists on up to date receipts and confirmation from the management company that there are no outstanding obligations.


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    #8
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Bluegrass1 wrote: »
    The solicitor for the purchaser of an interest in a lease always insists on up to date receipts and confirmation from the management company that there are no outstanding obligations.

    So you have just backed up my point thanks. As you have just said a sale cannot happen without clean title / lease as the buyers solicitor will not allow it to.

    thanks for pointing out your first post was wrong though saves us all some work :)


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    #9
    Bluegrass1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 97 ✭✭Bluegrass1


    D3PO wrote: »
    So you have just backed up my point thanks. As you have just said a sale cannot happen without clean title / lease as the buyers solicitor will not allow it to.

    thanks for pointing out your first post was wrong though saves us all some work :)

    My point was not wrong. If the solicitor is negligent his client is caught. The point I responded to was that the management company should get the money before the sale or else it would be lost. That is not the case. There is no guarantee that the purchaser will do the management company's work.


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    #10
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Bluegrass1 wrote: »
    My point was not wrong. If the solicitor is negligent his client is caught. The point I responded to was that the management company should get the money before the sale or else it would be lost. That is not the case. There is no guarantee that the purchaser will do the management company's work.

    If the solicitor is negligent then his client is not caught. The solicitor is caught.


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    #11
    Bluegrass1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 97 ✭✭Bluegrass1


    D3PO wrote: »
    If the solicitor is negligent then his client is not caught. The solicitor is caught.

    The client is caught and has to join the solicitor in any action against him. He may or may not recover against the solicitor.


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    #12
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Bluegrass1 wrote: »
    The client is caught and has to join the solicitor in any action against him. He may or may not recover against the solicitor.

    how do you figure he may or may not. If your solicitor is negligent they will be liable for those outstanding fees.

    A quick mention of a law society complaint will ensure it.


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    #13
    Bluegrass1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 97 ✭✭Bluegrass1


    D3PO wrote: »
    how do you figure he may or may not. If your solicitor is negligent they will be liable for those outstanding fees.

    A quick mention of a law society complaint will ensure it.

    The law society do not deal with complaints of negligence. The client has to sue for negligence.


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    #14
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Bluegrass1 wrote: »
    The law society do not deal with complaints of negligence. The client has to sue for negligence.

    Negligence falls under inadequate professional services. So yes they do deal with complaints of negligence.
    Complaints the Society may Investigate

    The Society may investigate complaints against solicitors made by or on behalf of clients (including beneficiaries) alleging:
    A. Inadequate Professional Services
    This is defined in Section 8 of the 1994 Solicitors (Amendment) Act as services which are inadequate in any material respect and are not of a quality that could reasonably be expected of a solicitor or a firm of solicitors.


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    #15
    Bluegrass1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 97 ✭✭Bluegrass1


    D3PO wrote: »
    Negligence falls under inadequate professional services. So yes they do deal with complaints of negligence.
    Complaints the Society may Investigate

    The Society may investigate complaints against solicitors made by or on behalf of clients (including beneficiaries) alleging:
    A. Inadequate Professional Services
    This is defined in Section 8 of the 1994 Solicitors (Amendment) Act as services which are inadequate in any material respect and are not of a quality that could reasonably be expected of a solicitor or a firm of solicitors.
    http://www.lawsociety.ie/Pages/Public-Make-a-Complaint-CMS/Negligence-Panel/
    The courts established by the Constitution are usually the place where conflicts relating to negligence and breach of contract are resolved. If the complaint is one which involves allegations of negligence and breach of contract where the complainant is seeking compensation in excess of €3,000, or if the Complaints and Client Relations Committee consider that a civil remedy available in the courts is appropriate in the circumstances of a complaint, the complainant will be informed of this and the Society is not empowered to take any further action in relation to the complaint and/or the solicitor.


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