[Event] HoTW Kilkee - 29/06/2013

bryangiggsy

Just 2 other observations from Kilkee that i believe are worth a mention


The swim. Fair play to the race organisers for letting the full swim go ahead. Any other tri in the country and i reckon the swim would have been cancelled. Just proves the point that looks are deceiving. It was not as bad as it looked and totally manageable for the majority.

The course. I'll go out on a lim here by saying. Kilkee suits the smaller triathletes. the bike and run course are perfect for the little speedsters were weight is a big advantage. Thats why i believe Anna Crooks was able to ru n down all the womens field. She is a savage runner i know but would she have been able to do that on a flat course. We should find out more this week in the flat Athlone. I may be worong..just my opinion.

pgibbo

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Just 2 other observations from Kilkee that i believe are worth a mention


The swim. Fair play to the race organisers for letting the full swim go ahead. Any other tri in the country and i reckon the swim would have been cancelled. Just proves the point that looks are deceiving. It was not as bad as it looked and totally manageable for the majority.

The course. I'll go out on a lim here by saying. Kilkee suits the smaller triathletes. the bike and run course are perfect for the little speedsters were weight is a big advantage. Thats why i believe Anna Crooks was able to ru n down all the womens field. She is a savage runner i know but would she have been able to do that on a flat course. We should find out more this week in the flat Athlone. I may be worong..just my opinion.

I think it's just that the clubs on the West coast of Ireland are more used to those conditions and see them as the norm for sea swims. The physicality of the swim would be my only concern. It felt like a fight for the first few hundred metres. If I could swim that mightn't be an issue though.

Your the second person in as many days that has mentioned weight. Not convinced it's a big deal on the bike as the stronger you are the easier it must be in to the wind on the way back. It definitely makes a difference on the run. However, at the pointy end of things, I don't think it should. If you pace the bike well then you should be able to run well regardless of the course.

El Director

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Just 2 other observations from Kilkee that i believe are worth a mention


The swim. Fair play to the race organisers for letting the full swim go ahead. Any other tri in the country and i reckon the swim would have been cancelled. Just proves the point that looks are deceiving. It was not as bad as it looked and totally manageable for the majority.

The course. I'll go out on a lim here by saying. Kilkee suits the smaller triathletes. the bike and run course are perfect for the little speedsters were weight is a big advantage. Thats why i believe Anna Crooks was able to ru n down all the womens field. She is a savage runner i know but would she have been able to do that on a flat course. We should find out more this week in the flat Athlone. I may be worong..just my opinion.

I had the same thought abut the swim. I know it wasn't an easy swim but that is why I love triathlon. Not everybody can do it, it is a challenge, it's what seperates triathlon from Adventure Racing. Had the swim been cancelled in Kilkee then I would have been left seriously soul searching as the sport that I have become to love gets too overly cautious and you cannot even count on a swim after all the time spent in the pool. I was so happy to be out there in that swell, for me it is pure joy, exhilarating. AFAIK though it is TI that have the final decision on whether or not the swim goes ahead.

I totally agree that Kilkee suits a smaller athlete. Last year I was nearly 3kg lighter and it certainly helped. Power/weight ratio very important IMO in Kilkee, BoTE and Blacksod too.

mossym

El Director wrote: »

. Power/weight ration very imo in Kilkee, BoTE and Blacksod too.

haven't done the race, but have cycled the course, and i'd throw lost sheep into that too

wideball

I did the race at the weekend and it was my 3rd time doing it. Found the swim tough at times with the swell and traffic but that's as it should be. Surprisingly this was my fastest swim there yet. I enjoy hard sea swims best but they are few and far between, downstream river triathlons have no appeal for me. Agree with pts made re drafting and I saw plenty of it on Sat.

Well done to Limerick Tri on another great race, all the big and small details are taken care of. HOTW and Lost Sheep to me my favourite races on the calendar.

SlowMe

El Director wrote: »

Power/weight ratio very important IMO in Kilkee, BoTE and Blacksod too.

I don't know enough about power or have a power meter ($$) but from what I read here and elsewhere surely this is always the case? What events would power/weight not be an issue? sorry this is a genuine question, I don't mean to be thick

I completely second everything you said about the swim - not that I was particularly fast on Saturday but events with swims like this are why I enjoy competing in triathlon

pgibbo

One thing that I really liked was the fact that the stickers that LTC provided for helmets ad bikes were very high quality. They came off the bike and helmet with ease on Sunday and left no residue.

So many races have cheap poxy stickers that are a pain to try and remove. A little thing but it's attention to detail like this that makes this a great race. :cool:

mossym

SlowMe wrote: »

I don't know enough about power or have a power meter ($$) but from what I read here and elsewhere surely this is always the case? What events would power/weight not be an issue? sorry this is a genuine question, I don't mean to be thick

races less hilly. i've a guy i cycle with, can leave me for dead on the flat, but he's much heavier than me, so as soon as we hit a climb i can drop him easily. on a flat course i have no doubts he'd beat me home with ease, but give me some hills and its a different matter

El Director

SlowMe wrote: »

I don't know enough about power or have a power meter ($$) but from what I read here and elsewhere surely this is always the case? What events would power/weight not be an issue? sorry this is a genuine question, I don't mean to be thick

I completely second everything you said about the swim - not that I was particularly fast on Saturday but events with swims like this are why I enjoy competing in triathlon

Hi @SlowMe Mossym has explained it there in a nut shell. On a flat course the bigger more powerful riders can utilise all their power on the horizontal plane. However if that same rider had to go up hills then their extra weight becomes an issue and a lighter rider can benefit here. Here are two riders:

Rider A: FTP 305, weight 78kg, Power/Weight Ratio 3.9
Rider B: FTP 288, Weight 70kg, Power/Weight Ratio 4.1

Lets assume both riders ride to their ability and pace it well.On a flat 40k time trial Rider A gets the job done first as he/she just has more power and it is all being used to drive him/her forward. On a hilly 40k time trial rider B gets it as he/she has less weight to carry up the hills and crucially has a great power/weight ratio.

Thinking about Kilkee again, P Gibbo has a point. The course is hilly but not overly. The main feature is that head wind. This is were where your aero coefficient comes into play. Of course the bigger you are the greater frontal area you present and the rider is by far the least aero component in the whole set up.

SlowMe

Thanks, that makes sense.

Have any of you guys that are tracking your FTP improvements in the other thread been able to recognise improvements or relate your experience in Kilkee to your power objectives?

El Director

SlowMe wrote: »

Thanks, that makes sense.

Have any of you guys that are tracking your FTP improvements in the other thread been able to recognise improvements or relate your experience in Kilkee to your power objectives?

Well not me as my FTP has not improved due illness and missed sessions etc...
I would be interested in other responses though.

To anyone that is interested my race report is here

RacoonQueen

I'm really surprised at the amount of people who defined it as a tough swim. Maybe because I found it easier than I expected I thought it was great conditions for a swim.

Or maybe the men just bash each other around more than the women do.

Or maybe I'm just awesome...

bryangiggsy

pgibbo wrote: »

I think it's just that the clubs on the West coast of Ireland are more used to those conditions and see them as the norm for sea swims. The physicality of the swim would be my only concern. It felt like a fight for the first few hundred metres. If I could swim that mightn't be an issue though.

Your the second person in as many days that has mentioned weight. Not convinced it's a big deal on the bike as the stronger you are the easier it must be in to the wind on the way back. It definitely makes a difference on the run. However, at the pointy end of things, I don't think it should. If you pace the bike well then you should be able to run well regardless of the course.

Isnt galway on the west coast

pgibbo

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Isnt galway on the west coast

It is and I enjoyed the swim. I was swimming in worse on the Thursday night before the race. It was the physical element that got to me. I never got so many kicks or punches in a race before. :pac:

Also, I struggle to make it to OW swims. Pity as Blackrock in Salthill is an ideal spot for it.

catweazle

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I'm really surprised at the amount of people who defined it as a tough swim. Maybe because I found it easier than I expected I thought it was great conditions for a swim.

Or maybe the men just bash each other around more than the women do.

Or maybe I'm just awesome...

It wasn't - but perhaps the male over 40's and women are much more mannerly than the young turks. The actual sea conditions were fine if you ask me but the pushing and shoving out to the 1st buoy was very difficult as you couldn't get a rhythm going

redved

I went wide on the right on the way out, swam almost unimpeded to the first buoy...thankfully
one other point about the swim is the location of the two buoys at the end made it much easier to sight the exit point.
In previous years I've been trying to sight the TI arch with almost no success.

It's my fourth year in a row doing it but the hardest bike so far I think. The less said about the run the better

pgibbo

SlowMe wrote: »

Thanks, that makes sense.

Have any of you guys that are tracking your FTP improvements in the other thread been able to recognise improvements or relate your experience in Kilkee to your power objectives?

I have. My FTP is better this year than last. My weight is the same give or take half a kilo. My improved FTP got me around the bike course over 4mins faster than last year. I also believe it was the hardest bike conditions in the last 4 years too as pointed out by redved above

BTH

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I'm really surprised at the amount of people who defined it as a tough swim. Maybe because I found it easier than I expected I thought it was great conditions for a swim.

Or maybe the men just bash each other around more than the women do.

Or maybe I'm just awesome...

Definitely "C"

NorthernRaider

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I'm really surprised at the amount of people who defined it as a tough swim. Maybe because I found it easier than I expected I thought it was great conditions for a swim.

Or maybe the men just bash each other around more than the women do.

Or maybe I'm just awesome...

On reflection, the sea itself was particularly challenging mainly from the pier to the second (corner) buoy. It was the sheer weight of numbers, lack of space and constant 'mounting' and grappling that made it difficult.

Any of the woman here care to comment on their experience of woman-only waves versus those including the alpha males?

But, of course, you just might be awesome:)!

littlemsfickle

NorthernRaider wrote: »

On reflection, the sea itself was particularly challenging mainly from the pier to the second (corner) buoy. It was the sheer weight of numbers, lack of space and constant 'mounting' and grappling that made it difficult.

Any of the woman here care to comment on their experience of woman-only waves versus those including the alpha males?

But, of course, you just might be awesome:)!

It depends on where you position yourself. As far as I can see men/women/young/old it's always going to be a tussle at the front.