Aaron Hernandez Thread

UnitedIrishman

He said "never not going to".

You've just vehemently argued the same point he was making. Well done.

mongoman

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

You've just vehemently argued the same point he was making. Well done.

How did he? Read his post again. Gronkastic just pointed out the hypocrisy and irony of what Syferus was saying today, compred to yesterday. Yesterday he came out with some incredibly silly comments and today he rides into the thread on a white horse trying to save it. I mean give me a break.

Jolly Red Giant

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Comical people suggesting Pats should get cap relief. If you draft someoneone with questionable background then be surprised if it ends up costing you.

It would be an absolute disgrace if the Pats were given cap relief by the NFL

Darrent Williams was murdered and Denver had to carry the cost of the remaining part of his contract

Sean Taylor was murdered and Washington had to carry the remaining part of his contract

Suggesting that someone who is charged with killing someone, is being questioned for two other murders and is being sued by the victim in a further shooting - should result in cap relief being allowed by the NFL is utterly daft.

I have no problem in the Pats doing everything in their power to void Hernandez's contract and recover the relevent portion of his signing bonus - the guy should not get a penny - but it would make an absolutely mockery of the cap system if the Pats got relief because the player was an alleged murderer when Denver and Washington were not granted a single penny in relief when their players were murder victims.

Son Of A Vidic

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I have no problem in the Pats doing everything in their power to void Hernandez's contract and recover the relevent portion of his signing bonus - the guy should not get a penny - but it would make an absolutely mockery of the cap system if the Pats got relief because the player was an alleged murderer when Denver and Washington were not granted a single penny in relief when their players were murder victims.

The only difference I can see there, is a potential breach of contract or some conduct related contractual clause in the Hernandez case. Those two guys were murdered, they were victims in circumstances beyond their control. They obviously didn't breach their own contract. There was no 'conduct unbecoming' issues that arose. So their teams had absolutely no comeback for claiming breach of contract ect. Which I do think is unfair btw.

Hernandez on the other hand, behaved in a manner very detrimental to his team and he jepoardised his own contract. He was not a victim, but rather he seems to have created victims.

That imo is the subtle difference between both cases. But just for the record, I have already previously stated that the cap hit is not important to me. If the Pats lose money then so be it. The most important thing for me was doing the right thing and they did that when they got rid of Hernandez.

Jolly Red Giant

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Hernandez on the other hand, behaved in a manner very detrimental to his team and he jepoardised his own contract. He was not a victim, but rather he seems to have created victims.

A few days ago I linked to an article that stated that there were no contractural obligations in the contract Hernandez signed with the Pats that would allow them to void the contract and allow them to avoid the cap hit.

Here is another article dealing with the same issue (written before his arrest) -

In almost all situations, when an NFL player is suspended, he forfeits all of the future guarantees in his contract. Even if a signing bonus or base salary is guaranteed for skill, injury and salary cap, a "failure to perform" or "failure to practice" clause makes those guarantees null and void.

In a surprising twist, this appears not to be the case with the five-year, $40-million extension signed by New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez in August of 2012. Upon close reading of his contract language -- and after confirming the development with an expert -- the "failure to perform" or "failure to practice" clause that appears in similar Patriots extensions is not present. This means Hernandez might be able to keep nearly $2.5 million of the deal, even if legal troubles prevented him from taking the field.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000213873/article/examining-aaron-hernandezs-new-england-patriots-contract

Now the issue is further complicated by the fact that the Pats cut Hernandez - even if the contractural clauses were in the contract, by cutting him the Pats removed any possibility of using the terms to void the contract. Now that doesn't mean the Pats couldn't get cap relief - they just could not get it using any contractural clauses (which apparently weren't there anyway).

Interestingly enough - the Pats would have been in a much stronger cap position if they had waited for the NFL to suspend Hernandez (again written before his arrest and release by the Pats) -

If the Patriots cut Hernandez before the commissioner suspends him, they would be saddled with additional cap charges — upward of $10 million, the rest of the guaranteed money still on the books — which doesn’t make sense for the team.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/06/24/need-for-patriots-make-rash-decisions-with-aaron-hernandez/wW4tsNHdz3UNF5DJFNJC4O/story.html

This suggests that the Pats will get some cap relief in 2013

Even if the Patriots do not pay Hernandez another cent, they will still have him on their salary cap for two more years. But their decision to void the remaining guaranteed money in his contract will lessen the cap hit for the 2013 season.

ESPN.com reported last week that Hernandez would still cost the Patriots $5.092 million on this year's cap and $7.5 million on the 2014 cap, but that included guaranteed money he would have been owed through 2014 and the full signing bonus pro-rated over the two remaining years.

Now, his 2013 cap hit will be $2.55 million, but the 2014 figure remains $7.5 million according to the Globe report.

http://www.thesunchronicle.com/sports/patriots/pats-won-t-be-showing-hernandez-the-money/article_ad60aea3-f4b3-5f99-a12b-408419f14cee.html

However, the point I was making is that the cap system is daft (and would appear utterly daft) if the NFL allowed cap relief to the Pats over Hernandez when Denver and Washington had to carry the cap hit for two players who were murdered.

SantryRed

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Hernandez on the other hand, behaved in a manner very detrimental to his team and he jepoardised his own contract. He was not a victim, but rather he seems to have created victims.

That imo is the subtle difference between both cases. But just for the record, I have already previously stated that the cap hit is not important to me. If the Pats lose money then so be it. The most important thing for me was doing the right thing and they did that when they got rid of Hernandez.

Exactly, he was a scumbag. No way should the Pats get any relief whatsoever for signing him. That's their own fault and own judgement on a matter, so they should most definitely take the cap hit.

Son Of A Vidic

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Interestingly enough - the Pats would have been in a much stronger cap position if they had waited for the NFL to suspend Hernandez (again written before his arrest and release by the Pats) -

I actually read that article alright before the Hernandez arrest. I think everyone thought the Pats would wait for the NFL/Commisioner to take the lead. So I was surprised they acted so quickly and glad they did so.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

However, the point I was making is that the cap system is daft (and would appear utterly daft) if the NFL allowed cap relief to the Pats over Hernandez when Denver and Washington had to carry the cap hit for two players who were murdered.

As I said in my earlier post, it is unfair on those teams whose players were murdered. Bottom line for me is, if a team through no fault of its own loses a player for non footabll related illness like cancer, death or off the field criminal reasons. Then I don't think that team should suffer by a cap hit.

eagle eye

Patriots could not wait for Good/Badell to make his decision. In a situation like this the organisation has to be seen to do the right thing and they did that.

If and when the commissioner makes his decision and I expect it sooner rather than later then the Patriots are getting their cap money back I think.

Arawn

If pats get cap money back it will have other teams fans going nuts. Did falcons get back cap money when vick went to prison?? I know they got back 3.5 because vick owed them money, but did they get anything else?

frostie500

I've deleted a number of posts from this thread to try and keep it on topic. I want to say that there has been some posts that I felt crossed the line and results in personal attacks on other users and I'll be dealing with these soon but for the most part that the discussion has been about Hernandez' case and the football implication of it so please keep to these in the future.
I received a few PMs from some of you over the weekend fans over the weekend, I was offline the last few days on holidays so only saw them this morning, and want to say that it's important to remember that when someone says something negative about a team or player it is not always intended as an attack on the team and in the majority of cases is simply an expression of opinion. I know how frustrating it can be to read something negative about players you like and the team you support-I remember when Vick signed with the Eagles and a lot of people were highly critical of the Birds for taking him-but it's important to take a moment and think to yourself is it really worthwhile getting riled up about something written on the forum.
I think that there has been a few examples over the weekend where people did not take the time to think about their responses and the situation escalated quite quickly:

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

Patriots could not wait for Good/Badell to make his decision. In a situation like this the organisation has to be seen to do the right thing and they did that.

If and when the commissioner makes his decision and I expect it sooner rather than later then the Patriots are getting their cap money back I think.

Why? Every team in the NFL has had to cut a player because they have been in trouble with the law, I can't see the pats being given special treatment just because there guy turned out to be a bigger scumbag then nearly every other nfl player. If the Pats get help on the cap it will open up a huge can of worms, I don't think the NFL PA will be happy at all either.

Jolly Red Giant

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Why? Every team in the NFL has had to cut a player because they have been in trouble with the law, I can't see the pats being given special treatment just because there guy turned out to be a bigger scumbag then nearly every other nfl player. If the Pats get help on the cap it will open up a huge can of worms, I don't think the NFL PA will be happy at all either.

I would actually go further - I think that if the Pats apply to the NFL for cap relief for Hernandez it will undo all the credit that they have rightly been given for cutting Hernandez in such a prompt and decisive manner.

frostie500

Like I said last week there's no legal right for the Pats to get any cap room back, the Falcons didnt with Vick and either did other teams that released players with legal issues or when players died as was mentioned earlier. They might be able to void the contract and stop payments to the player but they will still have to suffer the cap hit. Also for what it's worth there's not a lot of Pats fans anywhere that say they should get cap relief just that they would like to get cap relief which is pretty understandable.

Son Of A Vidic

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I can't see the pats being given special treatment just because there guy turned out to be a bigger scumbag then nearly every other nfl player.

If you want to talk about scumbags? These guys will take some beating...

Rae Lamar Wiggins - Carolina Panthers. Found guilty of conspiring to murder the woman who at the time was carrying his child.
-Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder.
-shooting into an occupied vehicle.
-Using an instrument to destroy an unborn child.

Or how about

Darryl Keith Henley – LA Rams. Currentlyserving a 41 year sentence.
-Trafficking cocaine.
-Attempting to murder the judge.
-And for hiring contract killers to kill the Trial judge.

Early indications do seem to suggest that Hernandez could be joining their company. But maybe, let's actually just wait and see what he's convicted of first before rushing to judgement.

Son Of A Vidic

frostie500 wrote: »

Also for what it's worth there's not a lot of Pats fans anywhere that say they should get cap relief just that they would like to get cap relief which is pretty understandable.

Thanks Chief for pointing that out. Because that would most likely fall on deaf ears coming from anyone else.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Why? Every team in the NFL has had to cut a player because they have been in trouble with the law, I can't see the pats being given special treatment just because there guy turned out to be a bigger scumbag then nearly every other nfl player. If the Pats get help on the cap it will open up a huge can of worms, I don't think the NFL PA will be happy at all either.

If he gets banned from the NFL for a long time then I cannot see how the Patriots will not get cap relief for the duration of his ban.Maybe I'm wrong about that but it just seems like common sense to me.

Hazys

Lol

I started this conversation on the Pats getting cap relief on the first page and left soon after as it really was just an side thought, not something i thought strongly about or thought the Pats had a chance of getting.

I come back 200 posts later and the thread is a complete sh1tshow.


Unintentional trolling like a boss :cool:

Red Crow

Of course they should get cap relief. These are circumstances outside of football which have caused Hernandez to no longer be available as a player to the Pats.

For cases like convictions and death teams should be given relief. So what if the Pats knew he had a record, so what if they have him a new contract last year. They hardly thought he was going to murder someone.

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

If he gets banned from the NFL for a long time then I cannot see how the Patriots will not get cap relief for the duration of his ban.Maybe I'm wrong about that but it just seems like common sense to me.

Falcons didn't get cap relief when Vick was banned indefinitely, why should the Pats? Not sure why it seems like common sense either - a team give a player a high contract, player does something terrible and gets prisons/banned, you suffer the consequences of giving that player a high contract. Seems like a simple case of tough **** for the team who gave him a contract.

Hazys

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Falcons didn't get cap relief when Vick was banned indefinitely, why should the Pats? Not sure why it seems like common sense either - a team give a player a high contract, player does something terrible and gets prisons/banned, you suffer the consequences of giving that player a high contract. Seems like a simple case of tough **** for the team who gave him a contract.

The Falcons would have cut Vick straight away ideally. They only kept him till he was convicted so they could claim their money back.

Pats cutting Hernandez have given away all legal rights to the guaranteed money they still have to pay him.

The point i was making that the Falcons shouldn't have had to keep Vick till the conviction to get their money back if the NFL had some relief system for special cases like this.

Chucky the tree

Hazys wrote: »

The Falcons would have cut Vick straight away ideally. They only kept him till he was convicted so they could claim their money back.

Pats cutting Hernandez have given away all legal rights to the guaranteed money they still have to pay him.

The point i was making that the Falcons shouldn't have had to keep Vick till the conviction to get their money back if the NFL had some relief system for special cases like this.

Not sure how that is an NFL issue? The Falcons, and every other nfl teams, should have put clauses in players contracts stating that if they convicted/arrested for a serious crime then they void their signing bonuses/guaranteed money etc. The point I am making is that the NFL should not have a relief system. Teams should have to take the hit if their players turns out to be a trouble maker. If the NFL want to change it, then fine, but they have to do it for every case in future and not start with the Pats after the fact.

Hazys

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Not sure how that is an NFL issue? The Falcons, and every other nfl teams, should have put clauses in players contracts stating that if they convicted/arrested for a serious crime then they void their signing bonuses/guaranteed money etc. The point I am making is that the NFL should not have a relief system. Teams should have to take the hit if their players turns out to be a trouble maker. If the NFL want to change it, then fine, but they have to do it for every case in future and not start with the Pats after the fact.

NFL controls the Cap.

You may not be able to get your actually money back as the NFL has no control over the legal system but they could make it so that teams are not handicapped when it comes to fielding a team under the cap.

Jolly Red Giant

Hazys wrote: »

The Falcons would have cut Vick straight away ideally. They only kept him till he was convicted so they could claim their money back.

My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that the Falcons got $3million in cap relief as a result of Vick declaring bankruptcy - and then signing a contract with the Eagles. The relief was based on the fact that he had signed another contract with another team and the Falcons lost out because if he had not gone to jail (and been cut) he would have still been under contract with the Falcons (and had already been paid this money).

Hazys wrote: »

Pats cutting Hernandez have given away all legal rights to the guaranteed money they still have to pay him.

That would appear to be the case - but there is a fuzzy area between the implications of the contract itself and the cap implications of the contract - they don't always run in tandem.

Hazys wrote: »

The point i was making that the Falcons shouldn't have had to keep Vick till the conviction to get their money back if the NFL had some relief system for special cases like this.

No they shouldn't - any player who engages in such activity should be immediately dumped. Now everyone deserves a second chance - and Vick got it - as a result the Falcons were able to claim some cap benefits.

Personally I think the only basis for the Pats getting cap relief is that Hernandez is found not guilty on all chages and he signs with another team - then the Pats could have a case for redress. However, I don't know the rules - but I do think it would be inappropriate for the Pats to attempt to get cap relief if Hernandez is convicted and I think it would undo the deserved credit the Pats received for dumping Hernandez when they did.

danthedolphin

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

but I do think it would be inappropriate for the Pats to attempt to get cap relief if Hernandez is convicted and I think it would undo the deserved credit the Pats received for dumping Hernandez when they did.

How would it be inappropriate? They're perfectly entitled to try, so why shouldn't they? I certainly would want my team trying and I'm sure most fans would. And how would them getting future relief, undo the credit they got for their actions? I mean they did put themselves in a bad spot financially after all, when they cut Hernandez. That clearly showed everyone that money was not their first priority, cue lots of praise and admiration. Money/relief after the fact won't change that.

JaMarcus Hustle

This is a long read but worth it. Great insight into both Odin Lloyd and Hernandez, both respectively and their relationship.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=9440598&src=desktop

Realt Dearg Sec

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Personally I think the only basis for the Pats getting cap relief is that Hernandez is found not guilty on all chages and he signs with another team - then the Pats could have a case for redress.

Why? If he is found not guilty then the Patriots simply cut a player who was under contract. Why would they have a case for redress?

Jolly Red Giant

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Why? If he is found not guilty then the Patriots simply cut a player who was under contract. Why would they have a case for redress?

The Atlanta Falcons got $3million in cap relief when Vick signed with the Eagles. It is clear that the Pats cut Hernandez because of his arrest - the Falcons cut Vick after his arrest (and after he had been suspended by the NFL). I don't know the ins and outs of the NFL cap system but my understanding is that the Falcons got cap relief because Vick would still have been under contract with the Falcons (and had been paid the guaranteed money) if he had not been arrested, at the time he signed for the Eagles. The reason the Pats cut Hernandez was because he was arrested and charged with murder - he was not cut for any other reason.

Son Of A Vidic

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The reason the Pats cut Hernandez was because he was arrested and charged with murder - he was not cut for any other reason.

Not quite, the Pats cut Hernandez hours before he was charged with any offence. The arrest was the precursor to this decision. The general consensus was he was might possibly face an Obstruction Of Justice charge. And that was only speculative. The murder charge shocked and surprised most people. But it was irrelevant at that stage, because he was no longer a Pats player.

SantryRed

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Not quite, the Pats cut Hernandez hours before he was charged with any offence. The arrest was the precursor to this decision. The general consensus was he was might possibly face an Obstruction Of Justice charge. And that was only speculative. The murder charge shocked and surprised most people. But it was irrelevant at that stage, because he was no longer a Pats player.

They obviously knew something more was coming.

Son Of A Vidic

SantryRed wrote: »

They obviously knew something more was coming.

That's right, something was coming but no one expected a murder 1 charge....

...a high-ranking Patriots executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation.
The source reiterated to the Globe late Friday that the Patriots’ brain trust, led by Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick, decided late last week to cut Hernandez if he were to be arrested in connection with the murder in any way. The source said the team’s leaders expected Hernandez to be arrested for obstruction of justice, and were “taken aback” when he was charged with murder later that afternoon. http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/06/28/patriots-had-inside-knowledge-murder-charge-before-cutting-aaron-hernandez/efZRO6DxYpy6AZd7SMH3OL/story.html

From ABC News before his arrest.

New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez is now the subject of an arrest warrant drawn up on obstruction of justice charges based on the possible destruction of evidence in connection with the shooting death of his friend, ABC News has learned...................................

The star NFL player has not been ruled out as a suspect in Lloyd's murder, sources said, but the warrant that has been issued does not include a murder allegation. http://abcnews.go.com/US/aaron-hernandez-arrest-warrant-issued-obstruction-ustice-charge/story?id=19453898#.UdMLDNi0TF8

From profootballtalk before his arrest...

Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez will reportedly be charged with obstruction of justice in connection with the death of Odin Lloyd.
WBZ NewsRadio 1030, citing an unnamed law enforcement source, reports that an arrest warrant has been issued on a charge of obstruction of justice. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/21/report-hernandez-to-be-charged-with-obstruction-of-justice/

More here......

NORTH ATTLEBOROUGH, Mass. — Officials prepared a warrant against New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez for obstructing justice on Friday as the football star spent the afternoon holed up in his lawyer’s office.http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/arrest-warrant-issued-aaron-hernandez-new-england-patriots-tight-report-article-1.1378870

And here......

It appears an arrest is looming. Aaron Hernandez will be charged with obstruction of justice in connection with a North Attleboro homicide, according to WBZ NewsRadio 1030. An arrest warrant has been issued, according to WBZ’s source. http://nesn.com/2013/06/report-aaron-hernandez-to-be-charged-with-obstruction-of-justice-arrest-warrant-issued/

So as I was saying earlier, nobody was expecting a murder charge for Hernandez. Obstruction of Justice was the headline favourite. The Pats bottomline was an arrest. Once he was arrested regardless of any charge, he was gone and that's what happened.

EKRIUQ

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

So as I was saying earlier, nobody was expecting a murder charge for Hernandez. Obstruction of Justice was the headline favourite. The Pats bottomline was an arrest. Once he was arrested regardless of any charge, he was gone and that's what happened.

I think its starting to go a bit far now, I read on the NFL site there investigating him about the appearance of Manti Teo's girlfriend.

themont85

Don't believe everything you read.

The police probably put out talk of "obstruction of justice" and this was probably just a tactic to get his mates to flip, rather than him doing it first.

TO.

themont85 wrote: »

Don't believe everything you read.

The police probably put out talk of "obstruction of justice" and this was probably just a tactic to get his mates to flip, rather than him doing it first.

The Key point is that the Pats made a decision the week previous that as soon as Hernandez was arrested he would be released. Whether for murder or obstruction as soon as those cuffs were placed on his wrists the Pats were cutting him.

It also was a decision made last week, not Wednesday morning, according to a person with knowledge of the Patriots' decision-making. The Patriots knew that if Hernandez was arrested for being involved at some level in a homicide investigation, he was going to be released. There might be financial repercussions, including a large salary-cap hit in 2014.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000214887/article/patriots-were-ready-to-cut-hernandez-in-event-of-arrest

Masked Man

themont85 wrote: »

Don't believe everything you read.

The police probably put out talk of "obstruction of justice" and this was probably just a tactic to get his mates to flip, rather than him doing it first.

There is absolutely no way you could possibly know this.

Son Of A Vidic

What I posted earlier doesn't even scratch the surface. Before Hernandez was eventually arrested and charged, sports media and main stream media, alike were expecting an obstruction of justice charge. Little did we know how bad it would get.

themont85 wrote: »

The police probably put out talk of "obstruction of justice" and this was probably just a tactic to get his mates to flip, rather than him doing it first.

Please continue, I'm realy intrigued to know what other parts of the confidential police investigation you can share with us after the fact.

SantryRed

I'm sorry but what bollocks. The Patriots main guys obviously knew he had done something wrong if once the arrest occurred they cut him immediately. They wouldn't just sack him for just being arrested.

TO.

SantryRed wrote: »

I'm sorry but what bollocks. The Patriots main guys obviously knew he had done something wrong if once the arrest occurred they cut him immediately. They wouldn't just sack him for just being arrested.

Can you read? Read what I quoted. The article makes what you just said very clear even if you click the link:

Patriots knew that if Hernandez was arrested for being involved at some level in a homicide investigation

When they made this decision the only thing floating around was obstruction so they made the decision to release him if the police arrested him for the part he played in said homicide. To what extent he was actually involved no one knew a week previous to his actual arrest as the evidence was only being collected.

eagle eye

SantryRed wrote: »

I'm sorry but what bollocks. The Patriots main guys obviously knew he had done something wrong if once the arrest occurred they cut him immediately. They wouldn't just sack him for just being arrested.

I'm sure they would be able to get some more information than most but at the same time they would have cut him if it was an obstruction of justice charge because the good name of the franchise is very important. Bob Kraft is a serious business man and when something serious happens you can be sure that the best action for the franchise will be taken.

Jolly Red Giant

Listen - I hate the Pats as much as any non-Pats fan - but credit where credit is due - the Pats acted promptly and decisively and were absolutely correct to do what they did. It is irrelevent whether they knew what was going to happen Hernandez - as TO pointed out - the Pats made the decision to cut Hernandez a week before his arrest and they made the decision to do it as soon as he was arrested.

Son Of A Vidic

SantryRed wrote: »

I'm sorry but what bollocks. The Patriots main guys obviously knew he had done something wrong if once the arrest occurred they cut him immediately.

Of course an arrest meant he was suspected of doing something wrong. What else would it mean? And of course that's why he was cut. Everyone expected obstruction of justice not murder. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85353381&postcount=231http://

SantryRed wrote: »

They wouldn't just sack him for just being arrested.

But that's what they did. I'll forgive your ignorance, but days before he was arrested. The Patriots Football Weekly Radio show analysts all agreed that once he was arrested he was gone, finished, he'd never play as a patriot again. And they were spot on.

And here's the two hour podcast (20/06/13) about it here http://www.patriots.com/media-center/audio/PFW-In-Progress---6202013/a5141c70-48f3-4a1a-972f-08d25e972cf1

themont85

Masked Man wrote: »

There is absolutely no way you could possibly know this.

"Know"? I just speculated with the word "probably", maybe my statement using that word comes across as too definative but I have no doubt people are being extremely naive if they believe everything leaked to the press. The police were thought to have been on the verge of arresting Hernandez many days before they actually did with OOJ as a charge, it is strange that they did not when informed press sources suggested it was happening.

People were leaking stuff they wanted out there. Why was Hernandez ultimately charged on Murder 1? Maybe someone flipped out on him. Maybe they hoped a bigger charge on him would force him to implicate the others. They were dealing with a number of young men who were suspects, people get jittery. The police using the media to further a case is never beyond the realms of possibility and the fact that they waited so many days after it was leaked to the press that an arrest was on the way, suggests to me the cops were being deliberate in trying to get guys to duck out.

Gronkastic

themont85 wrote: »

"Know"? I just speculated with the word "probably", maybe my statement using that word comes across as too definative but I have no doubt people are being extremely naive if they believe everything leaked to the press. The police were thought to have been on the verge of arresting Hernandez many days before they actually did with OOJ as a charge, it is strange that they did not when informed press sources suggested it was happening.

People were leaking stuff they wanted out there. Why was Hernandez ultimately charged on Murder 1? Maybe someone flipped out on him. Maybe they hoped a bigger charge on him would force him to implicate the others. They were dealing with a number of young men who were suspects, people get jittery. The police using the media to further a case is never beyond the realms of possibility and the fact that they waited so many days after it was leaked to the press that an arrest was on the way, suggests to me the cops were being deliberate in trying to get guys to duck out.

Now if I was a cop and I wanted to bring pressure to bear on suspects. I'd be leaking the likelyhood of an immenient murder charge. It's a dog eat dog world in the media. And the fact that no one reported anything about a murder charge. Suggests the police clearly kept their cards very close to their chest.

With the money Hernandez has, the powerful legal team he has employed and the high profile nature of this case and the spotlight it brings. I think the police had to be very methodical and careful in building their evidence prior to his arrest.

American justice can often depend on the lawyer you can afford. With Hernandex money is no object and the police were very likely mindful of this.

mongoman

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Listen - I hate the Pats as much as any non-Pats fan

Who cares? Why do you need to even say that? But it does sum up a lot of the immaturity around here from some quarters.

Chucky the tree

TO. wrote: »

The Key point is that the Pats made a decision the week previous that as soon as Hernandez was arrested he would be released. Whether for murder or obstruction as soon as those cuffs were placed on his wrists the Pats were cutting him.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000214887/article/patriots-were-ready-to-cut-hernandez-in-event-of-arrest

For someone who was so keen to point out how people should pay no attention to the media and their sources when they were speculating about Hernandez involvement in the murder just after it happened I'm surprised to you see you quoting a media article as if it's gospel.

Gronkastic wrote: »

Now if I was a cop and I wanted to bring pressure to bear on suspects. I'd be leaking the likelyhood of an immenient murder charge. It's a dog eat dog world in the media. And the fact that no one reported anything about a murder charge. Suggests the police clearly kept their cards very close to their chest.

With the money Hernandez has, the powerful legal team he has employed and the high profile nature of this case and the spotlight it brings. I think the police had to be very methodical and careful in building their evidence prior to his arrest.

American justice can often depend on the lawyer you can afford. With Hernandex money is no object and the police were very likely mindful of this.

It's a far better tactic to leak a Obstruction charge if they felt Aaron was the guy who did it. If I was one of the guys who was with Aaron on that night and I heard he was being done for obstruction only when I knew he was the killer I'm not sure I'd be keeping my mouth shut while I waited for them to possibly charge with me murder. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's how it went, certainly seems definite that one of the guys is/will give evidence against Hernandez.

TO.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

For someone who was so keen to point out how people should pay no attention to the media and their sources when they were speculating about Hernandez involvement in the murder just after it happened I'm surprised to you see you quoting a media article as if it's gospel.

I saw this post coming. Well done and thank you for pointing that out.

TO.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

For someone who was so keen to point out how people should pay no attention to the media and their sources when they were speculating about Hernandez involvement in the murder just after it happened I'm surprised to you see you quoting a media article as if it's gospel.

To add to it though I never said it was gospel to be fair. But as a Pats fan you do have the regular trusted sources that you hear from and read from and listen to and all of them were saying the same things the back end of that week a few days before the arrest and before the info was released into mainstream media. Who knows if it is 100% accurate but I will take what the credible sources even when it is backed up by the mainstream. As for why I used that link it was the first one I found in google. If you google it enough you will find enough of the credible sources that are generally bang out about the Pats.

But as my last post said well done and thank you for pointing that out. I truly mean it.

Mitch Connor

Remember a number of the NFL reporters on twitter commenting that the NFL security teams would have very tight links to local law enforcement, so would have had a much greater knowledge of the situation than the press or public, and greater than they would let on themselves either. Was said the Hernandez cut screamed they knew something big was about to happen.

Masked Man

Had a reply typed up. I deleted it somehow

themont85 wrote: »

"Know"? I just speculated with the word "probably", maybe my statement using that word comes across as too definative but I have no doubt people are being extremely naive if they believe everything leaked to the press. The police were thought to have been on the verge of arresting Hernandez many days before they actually did with OOJ as a charge, it is strange that they did not when informed press sources suggested it was happening.

People were leaking stuff they wanted out there. Why was Hernandez ultimately charged on Murder 1? Maybe someone flipped out on him. Maybe they hoped a bigger charge on him would force him to implicate the others. They were dealing with a number of young men who were suspects, people get jittery. The police using the media to further a case is never beyond the realms of possibility and the fact that they waited so many days after it was leaked to the press that an arrest was on the way, suggests to me the cops were being deliberate in trying to get guys to duck out.

Possible != probable.

It's def not young men.

Or the police played it close to their chest and any hint of a leak the media got, they ran with it.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It's a far better tactic to leak a Obstruction charge if they felt Aaron was the guy who did it. If I was one of the guys who was with Aaron on that night and I heard he was being done for obstruction only when I knew he was the killer I'm not sure I'd be keeping my mouth shut while I waited for them to possibly charge with me murder. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's how it went, certainly seems definite that one of the guys is/will give evidence against Hernandez.

idk, I'd be more inclined to believe that they didn't want Hernandez knowing about a murder 1 charge. He's young, rich and had already destroyed evidence (I think). Seems like a flight risk.

Also the other two suspects were arrested after Hernandez. Carlos Ortiz is charged with possession of a firearm, and DA said more could be added, seems pretty light. Ortiz was arrested in Connecticut, there were media reports that it was at Hernandez's uncle's house. Either way def in CT.

The other guy, Ernest something, was wanted for/ is charged with accessory after the fact iirc. He turned himself over to the police down in Florida.

It's still possible one of them flipped, but I wouldn't be so sure. Could be somebody else.

Masked Man

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/man-police-wanted-talk-aaron-hernandez-dies-car-012034083.html

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

To add to it though I never said it was gospel to be fair. But as a Pats fan you do have the regular trusted sources that you hear from and read from and listen to and all of them were saying the same things the back end of that week a few days before the arrest and before the info was released into mainstream media.

Absolutely and like yourself, when you've been following some team sources for years, you do build up a strong trust in their views when they've been consistent down the years. Like the lads at PFW for example, they are employees of the Patriot franchise and are based at Gillette. To a man they were expecting an obstruction charge and to a man they said if Hernandez was arrested for any reason in relation to the man's death, he would be cut.

But it just shows how tight the police were holding their cards. When the lads at PFW and their sources in the security Dept (their colleagues) were all talking about obstruction. Two hour podcast of the discussion here (20/06/13) http://www.patriots.com/media-center/audio/PFW-In-Progress---6202013/a5141c70-48f3-4a1a-972f-08d25e972cf1

But they were spot on about him being cut straight away. I never thought it would happen that quickly nor did the rest of the league. But it did. Robert Kraft is so well liked and respected throughout football and the Boston community. And it's decision like this one that gives him that respect. Fúck the cap hit, the loss of money and all that irrelevant rubbish. Doing the right and honourable thing is bigger and always will be more important than that. Thank god we are blessed to have an owner who thinks that way.