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Aaron Hernandez Thread

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  • #212
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Patriots could not wait for Good/Badell to make his decision. In a situation like this the organisation has to be seen to do the right thing and they did that.

    If and when the commissioner makes his decision and I expect it sooner rather than later then the Patriots are getting their cap money back I think.



    Why? Every team in the NFL has had to cut a player because they have been in trouble with the law, I can't see the pats being given special treatment just because there guy turned out to be a bigger scumbag then nearly every other nfl player. If the Pats get help on the cap it will open up a huge can of worms, I don't think the NFL PA will be happy at all either.


  • #213
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Why? Every team in the NFL has had to cut a player because they have been in trouble with the law, I can't see the pats being given special treatment just because there guy turned out to be a bigger scumbag then nearly every other nfl player. If the Pats get help on the cap it will open up a huge can of worms, I don't think the NFL PA will be happy at all either.
    I would actually go further - I think that if the Pats apply to the NFL for cap relief for Hernandez it will undo all the credit that they have rightly been given for cutting Hernandez in such a prompt and decisive manner.


  • #214
    frostie500
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭frostie500


    Like I said last week there's no legal right for the Pats to get any cap room back, the Falcons didnt with Vick and either did other teams that released players with legal issues or when players died as was mentioned earlier. They might be able to void the contract and stop payments to the player but they will still have to suffer the cap hit. Also for what it's worth there's not a lot of Pats fans anywhere that say they should get cap relief just that they would like to get cap relief which is pretty understandable.


  • #215
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    I can't see the pats being given special treatment just because there guy turned out to be a bigger scumbag then nearly every other nfl player.


    If you want to talk about scumbags? These guys will take some beating...

    Rae Lamar Wiggins - Carolina Panthers    .     Found guilty of conspiring to murder the woman who at the time was carrying his child.
    -Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder.
    -shooting into an occupied vehicle.
    -Using an instrument to destroy an unborn child.

    Or how about

    Darryl Keith Henley – LA Rams. Currentlyserving a 41 year sentence.
    -Trafficking cocaine.
    -Attempting to murder the judge.
    -And for hiring contract killers to kill the Trial judge.

    Early indications do seem to suggest that Hernandez could be joining their company. But maybe, let's actually just wait and see what he's convicted of first before rushing to judgement.


  • #216
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    frostie500 wrote: »
    Also for what it's worth there's not a lot of Pats fans anywhere that say they should get cap relief just that they would like to get cap relief which is pretty understandable.

    Thanks Chief for pointing that out. Because that would most likely fall on deaf ears coming from anyone else.


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  • #217
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,898 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Why? Every team in the NFL has had to cut a player because they have been in trouble with the law, I can't see the pats being given special treatment just because there guy turned out to be a bigger scumbag then nearly every other nfl player. If the Pats get help on the cap it will open up a huge can of worms, I don't think the NFL PA will be happy at all either.
    If he gets banned from the NFL for a long time then I cannot see how the Patriots will not get cap relief for the duration of his ban.Maybe I'm wrong about that but it just seems like common sense to me.


  • #218
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    Lol

    I started this conversation on the Pats getting cap relief on the first page and left soon after as it really was just an side thought, not something i thought strongly about or thought the Pats had a chance of getting.

    I come back 200 posts later and the thread is a complete sh1tshow.


    Unintentional trolling like a boss :cool:


  • #219
    Red Crow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭Red Crow


    Of course they should get cap relief. These are circumstances outside of football which have caused Hernandez to no longer be available as a player to the Pats.

    For cases like convictions and death teams should be given relief. So what if the Pats knew he had a record, so what if they have him a new contract last year. They hardly thought he was going to murder someone.


  • #220
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    eagle eye wrote: »
    If he gets banned from the NFL for a long time then I cannot see how the Patriots will not get cap relief for the duration of his ban.Maybe I'm wrong about that but it just seems like common sense to me.



    Falcons didn't get cap relief when Vick was banned indefinitely, why should the Pats? Not sure why it seems like common sense either - a team give a player a high contract, player does something terrible and gets prisons/banned, you suffer the consequences of giving that player a high contract. Seems like a simple case of tough **** for the team who gave him a contract.


  • #221
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Falcons didn't get cap relief when Vick was banned indefinitely, why should the Pats? Not sure why it seems like common sense either - a team give a player a high contract, player does something terrible and gets prisons/banned, you suffer the consequences of giving that player a high contract. Seems like a simple case of tough **** for the team who gave him a contract.

    The Falcons would have cut Vick straight away ideally. They only kept him till he was convicted so they could claim their money back.

    Pats cutting Hernandez have given away all legal rights to the guaranteed money they still have to pay him.

    The point i was making that the Falcons shouldn't have had to keep Vick till the conviction to get their money back if the NFL had some relief system for special cases like this.


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  • #222
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Hazys wrote: »
    The Falcons would have cut Vick straight away ideally. They only kept him till he was convicted so they could claim their money back.

    Pats cutting Hernandez have given away all legal rights to the guaranteed money they still have to pay him.

    The point i was making that the Falcons shouldn't have had to keep Vick till the conviction to get their money back if the NFL had some relief system for special cases like this.



    Not sure how that is an NFL issue? The Falcons, and every other nfl teams, should have put clauses in players contracts stating that if they convicted/arrested for a serious crime then they void their signing bonuses/guaranteed money etc. The point I am making is that the NFL should not have a relief system. Teams should have to take the hit if their players turns out to be a trouble maker. If the NFL want to change it, then fine, but they have to do it for every case in future and not start with the Pats after the fact.


  • #223
    Hazys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Not sure how that is an NFL issue? The Falcons, and every other nfl teams, should have put clauses in players contracts stating that if they convicted/arrested for a serious crime then they void their signing bonuses/guaranteed money etc. The point I am making is that the NFL should not have a relief system. Teams should have to take the hit if their players turns out to be a trouble maker. If the NFL want to change it, then fine, but they have to do it for every case in future and not start with the Pats after the fact.

    NFL controls the Cap.

    You may not be able to get your actually money back as the NFL has no control over the legal system but they could make it so that teams are not handicapped when it comes to fielding a team under the cap.


  • #224
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    Hazys wrote: »
    The Falcons would have cut Vick straight away ideally. They only kept him till he was convicted so they could claim their money back.
    My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that the Falcons got $3million in cap relief as a result of Vick declaring bankruptcy - and then signing a contract with the Eagles. The relief was based on the fact that he had signed another contract with another team and the Falcons lost out because if he had not gone to jail (and been cut) he would have still been under contract with the Falcons (and had already been paid this money).
    Hazys wrote: »
    Pats cutting Hernandez have given away all legal rights to the guaranteed money they still have to pay him.
    That would appear to be the case - but there is a fuzzy area between the implications of the contract itself and the cap implications of the contract - they don't always run in tandem.
    Hazys wrote: »
    The point i was making that the Falcons shouldn't have had to keep Vick till the conviction to get their money back if the NFL had some relief system for special cases like this.
    No they shouldn't - any player who engages in such activity should be immediately dumped. Now everyone deserves a second chance - and Vick got it - as a result the Falcons were able to claim some cap benefits.

    Personally I think the only basis for the Pats getting cap relief is that Hernandez is found not guilty on all chages and he signs with another team - then the Pats could have a case for redress. However, I don't know the rules - but I do think it would be inappropriate for the Pats to attempt to get cap relief if Hernandez is convicted and I think it would undo the deserved credit the Pats received for dumping Hernandez when they did.


  • #225
    danthedolphin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭danthedolphin


    Jolly Red Giant wrote: »
    but I do think it would be inappropriate for the Pats to attempt to get cap relief if Hernandez is convicted and I think it would undo the deserved credit the Pats received for dumping Hernandez when they did.

    How would it be inappropriate? They're perfectly entitled to try, so why shouldn't they? I certainly would want my team trying and I'm sure most fans would. And how would them getting future relief, undo the credit they got for their actions? I mean they did put themselves in a bad spot financially after all, when they cut Hernandez. That clearly showed everyone that money was not their first priority, cue lots of praise and admiration. Money/relief after the fact won't change that.


  • #226
    JaMarcus Hustle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    This is a long read but worth it. Great insight into both Odin Lloyd and Hernandez, both respectively and their relationship.

    http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=9440598&src=desktop


  • #227
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,901 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    Jolly Red Giant wrote: »
    Personally I think the only basis for the Pats getting cap relief is that Hernandez is found not guilty on all chages and he signs with another team - then the Pats could have a case for redress.

    Why? If he is found not guilty then the Patriots simply cut a player who was under contract. Why would they have a case for redress?


  • #228
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    Why? If he is found not guilty then the Patriots simply cut a player who was under contract. Why would they have a case for redress?
    The Atlanta Falcons got $3million in cap relief when Vick signed with the Eagles. It is clear that the Pats cut Hernandez because of his arrest - the Falcons cut Vick after his arrest (and after he had been suspended by the NFL). I don't know the ins and outs of the NFL cap system but my understanding is that the Falcons got cap relief because Vick would still have been under contract with the Falcons (and had been paid the guaranteed money) if he had not been arrested, at the time he signed for the Eagles. The reason the Pats cut Hernandez was because he was arrested and charged with murder - he was not cut for any other reason.


  • #229
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Jolly Red Giant wrote: »
    The reason the Pats cut Hernandez was because he was arrested and charged with murder - he was not cut for any other reason.

    Not quite, the Pats cut Hernandez hours before he was charged with any offence. The arrest was the precursor to this decision. The general consensus was he was might possibly face an Obstruction Of Justice charge. And that was only speculative. The murder charge shocked and surprised most people. But it was irrelevant at that stage, because he was no longer a Pats player.


  • #230
    SantryRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭SantryRed


    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    Not quite, the Pats cut Hernandez hours before he was charged with any offence. The arrest was the precursor to this decision. The general consensus was he was might possibly face an Obstruction Of Justice charge. And that was only speculative. The murder charge shocked and surprised most people. But it was irrelevant at that stage, because he was no longer a Pats player.

    They obviously knew something more was coming.


  • #231
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    SantryRed wrote: »
    They obviously knew something more was coming.

    That's right, something was coming but no one expected a murder 1 charge....
    ...a high-ranking Patriots executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation.
    The source reiterated to the Globe late Friday that the Patriots’ brain trust, led by Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick, decided late last week to cut Hernandez if he were to be arrested in connection with the murder in any way. The source said the team’s leaders expected Hernandez to be arrested for obstruction of justice, and were “taken aback” when he was charged with murder later that afternoon.     http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/06/28/patriots-had-inside-knowledge-murder-charge-before-cutting-aaron-hernandez/efZRO6DxYpy6AZd7SMH3OL/story.html
    From ABC News before his arrest.

    New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez is now the subject of an arrest warrant drawn up on obstruction of justice charges based on the possible destruction of evidence in connection with the shooting death of his friend, ABC News has learned...................................

    The star NFL player has not been ruled out as a suspect in Lloyd's murder, sources said, but the warrant that has been issued does not include a murder allegation.     http://abcnews.go.com/US/aaron-hernandez-arrest-warrant-issued-obstruction-ustice-charge/story?id=19453898#.UdMLDNi0TF8
    From profootballtalk before his arrest...
    Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez will reportedly be charged with obstruction of justice in connection with the death of Odin Lloyd.
    WBZ NewsRadio 1030, citing an unnamed law enforcement source, reports that an arrest warrant has been issued on a charge of obstruction of justice. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/21/report-hernandez-to-be-charged-with-obstruction-of-justice/
    More here......
    NORTH ATTLEBOROUGH, Mass. — Officials prepared a warrant against New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez for obstructing justice on Friday as the football star spent the afternoon holed up in his lawyer’s office.http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/arrest-warrant-issued-aaron-hernandez-new-england-patriots-tight-report-article-1.1378870

    And here......
    It appears an arrest is looming. Aaron Hernandez will be charged with obstruction of justice in connection with a North Attleboro homicide, according to WBZ NewsRadio 1030. An arrest warrant has been issued, according to WBZ’s source. http://nesn.com/2013/06/report-aaron-hernandez-to-be-charged-with-obstruction-of-justice-arrest-warrant-issued/

    So as I was saying earlier, nobody was expecting a murder charge for Hernandez. Obstruction of Justice was the headline favourite. The Pats bottomline was an arrest. Once he was arrested regardless of any charge, he was gone and that's what happened.


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  • #232
    EKRIUQ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,386 ✭✭✭EKRIUQ


    Corvus Maximus wrote: »


    So as I was saying earlier, nobody was expecting a murder charge for Hernandez. Obstruction of Justice was the headline favourite. The Pats bottomline was an arrest. Once he was arrested regardless of any charge, he was gone and that's what happened.

    I think its starting to go a bit far now, I read on the NFL site there investigating him about the appearance of Manti Teo's girlfriend.


  • #233
    themont85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    Don't believe everything you read.

    The police probably put out talk of "obstruction of justice" and this was probably just a tactic to get his mates to flip, rather than him doing it first.


  • #234
    TO.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭TO.


    themont85 wrote: »
    Don't believe everything you read.

    The police probably put out talk of "obstruction of justice" and this was probably just a tactic to get his mates to flip, rather than him doing it first.

    The Key point is that the Pats made a decision the week previous that as soon as Hernandez was arrested he would be released. Whether for murder or obstruction as soon as those cuffs were placed on his wrists the Pats were cutting him.
    It also was a decision made last week, not Wednesday morning, according to a person with knowledge of the Patriots' decision-making. The Patriots knew that if Hernandez was arrested for being involved at some level in a homicide investigation, he was going to be released. There might be financial repercussions, including a large salary-cap hit in 2014.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000214887/article/patriots-were-ready-to-cut-hernandez-in-event-of-arrest


  • #235
    Masked Man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭Masked Man


    themont85 wrote: »
    Don't believe everything you read.

    The police probably put out talk of "obstruction of justice" and this was probably just a tactic to get his mates to flip, rather than him doing it first.

    There is absolutely no way you could possibly know this.


  • #236
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    What I posted earlier doesn't even scratch the surface. Before Hernandez was eventually arrested and charged, sports media and main stream media, alike were expecting an obstruction of justice charge. Little did we know how bad it would get.
    themont85 wrote: »
    The police probably put out talk of "obstruction of justice" and this was probably just a tactic to get his mates to flip, rather than him doing it first.

    Please continue, I'm realy intrigued to know what other parts of the confidential police investigation you can share with us after the fact.


  • #237
    SantryRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭SantryRed


    I'm sorry but what bollocks. The Patriots main guys obviously knew he had done something wrong if once the arrest occurred they cut him immediately. They wouldn't just sack him for just being arrested.


  • #238
    TO.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭TO.


    SantryRed wrote: »
    I'm sorry but what bollocks. The Patriots main guys obviously knew he had done something wrong if once the arrest occurred they cut him immediately. They wouldn't just sack him for just being arrested.

    Can you read? Read what I quoted. The article makes what you just said very clear even if you click the link:
    Patriots knew that if Hernandez was arrested for being involved at some level in a homicide investigation

    When they made this decision the only thing floating around was obstruction so they made the decision to release him if the police arrested him for the part he played in said homicide. To what extent he was actually involved no one knew a week previous to his actual arrest as the evidence was only being collected.


  • #239
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,898 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    SantryRed wrote: »
    I'm sorry but what bollocks. The Patriots main guys obviously knew he had done something wrong if once the arrest occurred they cut him immediately. They wouldn't just sack him for just being arrested.
    I'm sure they would be able to get some more information than most but at the same time they would have cut him if it was an obstruction of justice charge because the good name of the franchise is very important. Bob Kraft is a serious business man and when something serious happens you can be sure that the best action for the franchise will be taken.


  • #240
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    Listen - I hate the Pats as much as any non-Pats fan - but credit where credit is due - the Pats acted promptly and decisively and were absolutely correct to do what they did. It is irrelevent whether they knew what was going to happen Hernandez - as TO pointed out - the Pats made the decision to cut Hernandez a week before his arrest and they made the decision to do it as soon as he was arrested.


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  • #241
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    SantryRed wrote: »
    I'm sorry but what bollocks. The Patriots main guys obviously knew he had done something wrong if once the arrest occurred they cut him immediately.

    Of course an arrest meant he was suspected of doing something wrong. What else would it mean? And of course that's why he was cut. Everyone expected obstruction of justice not murder. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85353381&postcount=231http://

    SantryRed wrote: »
    They wouldn't just sack him for just being arrested.

    But that's what they did. I'll forgive your ignorance, but days before he was arrested. The Patriots Football Weekly Radio show analysts all agreed that once he was arrested he was gone, finished, he'd never play as a patriot again. And they were spot on.

    And here's the two hour podcast (20/06/13) about it here http://www.patriots.com/media-center/audio/PFW-In-Progress---6202013/a5141c70-48f3-4a1a-972f-08d25e972cf1


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