Aaron Hernandez Thread

themont85

Masked Man wrote: »

There is absolutely no way you could possibly know this.

"Know"? I just speculated with the word "probably", maybe my statement using that word comes across as too definative but I have no doubt people are being extremely naive if they believe everything leaked to the press. The police were thought to have been on the verge of arresting Hernandez many days before they actually did with OOJ as a charge, it is strange that they did not when informed press sources suggested it was happening.

People were leaking stuff they wanted out there. Why was Hernandez ultimately charged on Murder 1? Maybe someone flipped out on him. Maybe they hoped a bigger charge on him would force him to implicate the others. They were dealing with a number of young men who were suspects, people get jittery. The police using the media to further a case is never beyond the realms of possibility and the fact that they waited so many days after it was leaked to the press that an arrest was on the way, suggests to me the cops were being deliberate in trying to get guys to duck out.

Gronkastic

themont85 wrote: »

"Know"? I just speculated with the word "probably", maybe my statement using that word comes across as too definative but I have no doubt people are being extremely naive if they believe everything leaked to the press. The police were thought to have been on the verge of arresting Hernandez many days before they actually did with OOJ as a charge, it is strange that they did not when informed press sources suggested it was happening.

People were leaking stuff they wanted out there. Why was Hernandez ultimately charged on Murder 1? Maybe someone flipped out on him. Maybe they hoped a bigger charge on him would force him to implicate the others. They were dealing with a number of young men who were suspects, people get jittery. The police using the media to further a case is never beyond the realms of possibility and the fact that they waited so many days after it was leaked to the press that an arrest was on the way, suggests to me the cops were being deliberate in trying to get guys to duck out.

Now if I was a cop and I wanted to bring pressure to bear on suspects. I'd be leaking the likelyhood of an immenient murder charge. It's a dog eat dog world in the media. And the fact that no one reported anything about a murder charge. Suggests the police clearly kept their cards very close to their chest.

With the money Hernandez has, the powerful legal team he has employed and the high profile nature of this case and the spotlight it brings. I think the police had to be very methodical and careful in building their evidence prior to his arrest.

American justice can often depend on the lawyer you can afford. With Hernandex money is no object and the police were very likely mindful of this.

mongoman

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Listen - I hate the Pats as much as any non-Pats fan

Who cares? Why do you need to even say that? But it does sum up a lot of the immaturity around here from some quarters.

Chucky the tree

TO. wrote: »

The Key point is that the Pats made a decision the week previous that as soon as Hernandez was arrested he would be released. Whether for murder or obstruction as soon as those cuffs were placed on his wrists the Pats were cutting him.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000214887/article/patriots-were-ready-to-cut-hernandez-in-event-of-arrest

For someone who was so keen to point out how people should pay no attention to the media and their sources when they were speculating about Hernandez involvement in the murder just after it happened I'm surprised to you see you quoting a media article as if it's gospel.

Gronkastic wrote: »

Now if I was a cop and I wanted to bring pressure to bear on suspects. I'd be leaking the likelyhood of an immenient murder charge. It's a dog eat dog world in the media. And the fact that no one reported anything about a murder charge. Suggests the police clearly kept their cards very close to their chest.

With the money Hernandez has, the powerful legal team he has employed and the high profile nature of this case and the spotlight it brings. I think the police had to be very methodical and careful in building their evidence prior to his arrest.

American justice can often depend on the lawyer you can afford. With Hernandex money is no object and the police were very likely mindful of this.

It's a far better tactic to leak a Obstruction charge if they felt Aaron was the guy who did it. If I was one of the guys who was with Aaron on that night and I heard he was being done for obstruction only when I knew he was the killer I'm not sure I'd be keeping my mouth shut while I waited for them to possibly charge with me murder. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's how it went, certainly seems definite that one of the guys is/will give evidence against Hernandez.

TO.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

For someone who was so keen to point out how people should pay no attention to the media and their sources when they were speculating about Hernandez involvement in the murder just after it happened I'm surprised to you see you quoting a media article as if it's gospel.

I saw this post coming. Well done and thank you for pointing that out.

TO.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

For someone who was so keen to point out how people should pay no attention to the media and their sources when they were speculating about Hernandez involvement in the murder just after it happened I'm surprised to you see you quoting a media article as if it's gospel.

To add to it though I never said it was gospel to be fair. But as a Pats fan you do have the regular trusted sources that you hear from and read from and listen to and all of them were saying the same things the back end of that week a few days before the arrest and before the info was released into mainstream media. Who knows if it is 100% accurate but I will take what the credible sources even when it is backed up by the mainstream. As for why I used that link it was the first one I found in google. If you google it enough you will find enough of the credible sources that are generally bang out about the Pats.

But as my last post said well done and thank you for pointing that out. I truly mean it.

Mitch Connor

Remember a number of the NFL reporters on twitter commenting that the NFL security teams would have very tight links to local law enforcement, so would have had a much greater knowledge of the situation than the press or public, and greater than they would let on themselves either. Was said the Hernandez cut screamed they knew something big was about to happen.

Masked Man

Had a reply typed up. I deleted it somehow

themont85 wrote: »

"Know"? I just speculated with the word "probably", maybe my statement using that word comes across as too definative but I have no doubt people are being extremely naive if they believe everything leaked to the press. The police were thought to have been on the verge of arresting Hernandez many days before they actually did with OOJ as a charge, it is strange that they did not when informed press sources suggested it was happening.

People were leaking stuff they wanted out there. Why was Hernandez ultimately charged on Murder 1? Maybe someone flipped out on him. Maybe they hoped a bigger charge on him would force him to implicate the others. They were dealing with a number of young men who were suspects, people get jittery. The police using the media to further a case is never beyond the realms of possibility and the fact that they waited so many days after it was leaked to the press that an arrest was on the way, suggests to me the cops were being deliberate in trying to get guys to duck out.

Possible != probable.

It's def not young men.

Or the police played it close to their chest and any hint of a leak the media got, they ran with it.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It's a far better tactic to leak a Obstruction charge if they felt Aaron was the guy who did it. If I was one of the guys who was with Aaron on that night and I heard he was being done for obstruction only when I knew he was the killer I'm not sure I'd be keeping my mouth shut while I waited for them to possibly charge with me murder. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's how it went, certainly seems definite that one of the guys is/will give evidence against Hernandez.

idk, I'd be more inclined to believe that they didn't want Hernandez knowing about a murder 1 charge. He's young, rich and had already destroyed evidence (I think). Seems like a flight risk.

Also the other two suspects were arrested after Hernandez. Carlos Ortiz is charged with possession of a firearm, and DA said more could be added, seems pretty light. Ortiz was arrested in Connecticut, there were media reports that it was at Hernandez's uncle's house. Either way def in CT.

The other guy, Ernest something, was wanted for/ is charged with accessory after the fact iirc. He turned himself over to the police down in Florida.

It's still possible one of them flipped, but I wouldn't be so sure. Could be somebody else.

Masked Man

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/man-police-wanted-talk-aaron-hernandez-dies-car-012034083.html

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

To add to it though I never said it was gospel to be fair. But as a Pats fan you do have the regular trusted sources that you hear from and read from and listen to and all of them were saying the same things the back end of that week a few days before the arrest and before the info was released into mainstream media.

Absolutely and like yourself, when you've been following some team sources for years, you do build up a strong trust in their views when they've been consistent down the years. Like the lads at PFW for example, they are employees of the Patriot franchise and are based at Gillette. To a man they were expecting an obstruction charge and to a man they said if Hernandez was arrested for any reason in relation to the man's death, he would be cut.

But it just shows how tight the police were holding their cards. When the lads at PFW and their sources in the security Dept (their colleagues) were all talking about obstruction. Two hour podcast of the discussion here (20/06/13) http://www.patriots.com/media-center/audio/PFW-In-Progress---6202013/a5141c70-48f3-4a1a-972f-08d25e972cf1

But they were spot on about him being cut straight away. I never thought it would happen that quickly nor did the rest of the league. But it did. Robert Kraft is so well liked and respected throughout football and the Boston community. And it's decision like this one that gives him that respect. Fúck the cap hit, the loss of money and all that irrelevant rubbish. Doing the right and honourable thing is bigger and always will be more important than that. Thank god we are blessed to have an owner who thinks that way.

eagle eye

I wish there was an ignore thread feature. I feel physically sick everytime I come onto the forum and see this thread.:(

I just want to forget all about this guy.

Masked Man

Masked Man wrote: »

Also the other two suspects were arrested after Hernandez. Carlos Ortiz is charged with possession of a firearm, and DA said more could be added, seems pretty light. Ortiz was arrested in Connecticut, there were media reports that it was at Hernandez's uncle's house. Either way def in CT.

Yeah about Ortiz not flipping...

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/07/cops_cited_cocaine_in_aaron_hernandez_court_papers

http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/07/03/aaron-hernandez-apartment-search-uncovered-ammo-and-sweatshirt-possibly-worn-the-night-murder/AKS33QJqQ2Xy5iYjO8rBsN/story.html

Arawn

I know it's not going to happen and it's terrible what he did, but could you imagine the amount of people who would be backtracking etc if it came out he was innocent completely!!

Jolly Red Giant

mongoman wrote: »

Who cares? Why do you need to even say that? But it does sum up a lot of the immaturity around here from some quarters.

Because a lot of the daft comments about what the Pats knew or didn't know were based on a dislike of the Pats - not on the actual reality of what was happening.

Son Of A Vidic

Arawn wrote: »

I know it's not going to happen and it's terrible what he did, but could you imagine the amount of people who would be backtracking etc if it came out he was innocent completely!!

I read this a few days ago and it's an interesting article.

Q: How strong is the evidence against Hernandez?


A:The police and prosecutors have assembled an impressive, minute-by-minute chronology of what they think led up to the shooting. They will be able to show that Hernandez was with Lloyd in a rental car, that they made at least one stop as they drove around together and that Hernandez was pulling into his driveway at home two minutes after witnesses heard a series of shots in the industrial park where Lloyd's body was discovered. The detail, confirmed by receipts and text messages and phone calls, will be persuasive evidence in a trial.

But prosecutors might not have the weapon used in the killing. Authorities searched a stream and a lagoon near Hernandez's house but apparently found nothing. And prosecutors might not have an eyewitness who was present when the shots were fired. If the prosecutors later produce the gun and acquaintances of the two men who were with them in the hours and minutes before the shooting, the prosecution's case could become overwhelming. The authorities were not obligated to disclose all their evidence in the hearing Wednesday. If they were holding back on the gun and on cooperating witnesses, Hernandez will face a virtually insurmountable challenge.

Since then, both other suspects have been taken into custody and the singing has begun. No doubt, this will only make things worse for Hernandez.

Q: There has been a lot of talk about obstruction of justice: Hernandez allegedly destroying his cellphone, destroying his home video surveillance system and cleaning out his house. What happened to all of that?

Despite the reports, investigators were able to pull evidence from Hernandez's cellphone and from his surveillance system. The description of the evidence included numerous items that were taken from the supposedly destroyed cellphone and surveillance system. Even though the technology was destroyed, it appears investigators were able to extract important information from the pieces and fragments that were left. The focus is now clearly on the murder charge and not on the possible obstruction charge.

It shows the confidence the DA has in pursuing a murder charge, because he bypassed an obstruction charge and went straight to murder 1.

Q: What is the likely outcome of this prosecution?


A: The case against Hernandez is strong and probably will grow stronger. Even without the weapon, the prosecution has powerful evidence. If a detailed review of the evidence against Hernandez shows him to face terrible odds in a trial, Hernandez and his attorneys could seek a plea bargain, a settlement that will allow Hernandez to serve a lengthy term in the penitentiary but still have some life left upon his release.

Entire article here http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/9426203/case-details-aired-arraignment-former-new-england-patriots-tight-end-aaron-hernandez-appear-strong

From a crime point of view yes he's been charged with murder, but the police will obviously have to prove it in a court of law. But things certainly don't look good for Hernandez.

Another thing that really stood out was the comments of the judge during the initial court appearance and charging. Regarding the evidence, Judge Renee Dupuis said this - "The evidence against Hernandez was circumstantial to be sure, but a very, very strong circumstantial case."

Apparently it is very unusual for a judge at an arraignment hearing, to emphasis the strength of a circumstancial case by saying it was - "very, very strong circumstantial case." So I'm thinking at this stage it would be a miracle if he walked away from all of this a free man.

Chucky the tree

I think him getting a jury who don't already have their mind made up about it will be very difficult as well. I don't I've seen (m)any commments saying they think he is innocent.

Jolly Red Giant

I would be surprised if a plea agreement isn't reached - particularly if the other two suspect roll on Hernandez.

Son Of A Vidic

From the horse's mouth so to speak......Robert Kraft who was out of the country when the Hernandez crap blew up, had this to say after he arrived back.

Here is the full text of Patriots owner Robert Kraft's statement to reporters from ESPNBoston.com, the Boston Globe and Boston Herald today:

“I want to thank each of you for coming here today. Today is my first business day back in the country since Aaron’s arrest; I arrived back in the country on Saturday. I want to establish up front that I have to be limited in what I talk about today as there is an ongoing criminal investigation, as well as other potential civil proceedings. In regards to that, I have been advised by my General Counsel to limit the subject matter of our discussion today. That being said, I do think it is important that our fan base hear directly from our organization. Also, out of respect to each of you and the organizations you represent, I wanted to do this face to face and not over the phone from Europe.

“Following Aaron’s arrest, I read a number of different accounts of how things transpired in our organization. Let me be clear, we decided the week prior to Aaron’s arrest that if Aaron was arrested in connection with the Lloyd murder case that we would cut him immediately after. The rationale behind that decision was that if any member of the New England Patriots organization is close enough to a murder investigation to actually get arrested – whether it be for obstruction of justice or the crime itself, it is too close to an unthinkable act for that person to be part of this organization going forward.”

Fair play to the Patriot insiders on PFW in Progress, who were calling this from the 20/6/13, nearly a week before he was arrested. Never again will I question you guys.

Masked Man

Apparently this is a letter Hernandez sent the Pats before the draft.

Dear Mr. Caserio:

I am writing in regards to some of the feedback I am receiving from my agents, Florida coaches and other NFL personnel. These sources have indicated that NFL teams have questions about my alleged use of marijuana. I personally answered these questions during the pre-draft process, but understand that NFL teams want to conduct thorough due diligence before making the significant financial investment inherent in a high draft pick. I have no issue with these questions being asked, but thought that it made the most sense to communicate with you directly regarding this issue so you would not have to rely upon second-hand information.

Any information I volunteer to you about my past will be looked at with great skepticism as I am trying to get drafted as high as possible by a NFL team. As such, I thought that the best way to answer your questions and your concerns was to make a very simple proposition. If you draft me as a member of the New England Patriots, I will willfully submit to a bi-weekly drug test throughout my rookie season (8 drug tests during the 2010 regular season). In addition, I will tie any guaranteed portion of my 2010 compensation to these drug tests and reimburse the team a pro-rata amount for any failed drug test. My agents have explained that a direct forfeiture provision in my contract along these lines would violate the CBA rules. However, I have instructed them to be creative in finding a contract structure that would work or in the worst case scenario, I would donate the pro-rata portion of my guaranteed money to the team’s choice of charities. My point is simple – if I fail a drug test, I do not deserve that portion of the money.

I realize that this offer is somewhat unorthodox, but it is also the only way I could think of to let you know how serious I am about reaching my potential in the NFL. My coaches have told you that nobody on our Florida team worked harder than me in terms of workouts, practices or games. You have your own evaluation as to the type of impact I can have on your offense. The only X-factor, according to the reports I have heard, is concerns about my use of recreational drugs. To address that concern, I am literally putting my money where my mouth is and taking the financial risk away from the team and putting it directly on my back where it belongs.

In closing, I ask you to trust me when I say you have absolutely nothing to worry about when it comes to me and the use of recreational drugs. I have set very high goals for myself in the NFL, and am focused 100% on achieving those goals. So, test me all you want during my rookie year…all of the results will be negative while I am having an overwhelmingly positive impact on the field.

Good luck with your preparations for the NFL Draft and feel free to contact me at my agency (Athletes First/David Dunn) with any questions.

Sincerely,

Aaron Hernandez

University of Florida
- See more at: http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2013/07/hernandez_pre_draft_letter_proposed_clause_on#sthash.ByKHEV43.dpuf

Also, details about/from the search warrants to be released at 7.

Chucky the tree

Seems as if they do have testimony from someone who was in the car.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000216990/article/aaron-hernandez-admitted-to-firing-fatal-shots-documents-say

Masked Man

The documents say Hernandez associate Carlos Ortiz told Massachusetts investigators that another man, Ernest Wallace, said Hernandez admitted shooting semi-pro football player Odin Lloyd last month in an industrial park near Hernandez's home in North Attleborough. The documents were filed in court by the Miramar, Fla., police department to justify a search of Wallace's home in that city.

Obv not an expert on US law, but how does this get admitted? Seems like the definition of hearsay.

Also makes it sound like it was only Hernandez and Lloyd in the car.

Chucky the tree

Masked Man wrote: »

Obv not an expert on US law, but how does this get admitted? Seems like the definition of hearsay.

Also makes it sound like it was only Hernandez and Lloyd in the car.

I think only hearsay counts in a trial.

Masked Man

Yeah I was wondering about the trial. They might not be using it. This is from SI

Ortiz told police that during the drive Hernandez told Lloyd that Lloyd had been "chilling" with people Hernandez had problems with, the documents say. But Ortiz told police the two men shook hands and the problem seemed smoothed over. However, the Altima soon stopped, and everyone but Ortiz got out to urinate, according to Ortiz's account.

The witness told police he then heard gunshots before Hernandez and Wallace got back into the car without Lloyd and the car sped away.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130709/aaron-hernandez-released-evidence/#ixzz2Yda6qMWf

The ADA say that Lloyd was shot as he was getting out of the car.

Hazys

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/10/affidavit-confirms-ortiz-flipped-on-hernandez-told-them-the-whole-story/

Ortiz said that he and Wallace arrived at Hernandez’s home in North Attleboro just after midnight on June 17, 2013. Hernandez and Shayanna Jenkins weren’t home; a babysitter let Wallace and Ortiz into the home.

Ortiz saw “a small and large handgun” in the home, and when Hernandez returned with Jenkins, Ortiz saw Hernandez “carrying a handgun.”

The three men — Hernandez, Ortiz, and Wallace — left the home at 1:09 a.m., stopping once for gas and then picking up Odin Lloyd and traveling back to North Attleboro.

Ortiz told police that, on the drive back, “he overheard Mr. Hernandez state directly to Mr. Lloyd that he was ‘chilling’ with people that [Hernandez] had problems with.” Ortiz said that Hernandez and Lloyd “made up by ‘shaking hands’ and added that ‘it’ was squashed.”

Ortiz then fell asleep. He woke up when the vehicle stopped, and Ortiz saw the other three men — Hernandez, Wallace, and Lloyd — get out of the car “to urinate.”

Ortiz then heard gunshots.

Hernandez and Wallace got back in to the car “without Mr. Lloyd,” and the vehicle “fled” the scene.

Because he had been asleep and stayed in the car, Ortiz didn’t know who had fired the shots, which makes Monday’s report that Wallace told Ortiz that Hernandez fired the shots now more sensible.

When the vehicle returned to Hernandez’s house, Wallace asked Ortiz to get a small gun located under the rear of the driver’s seat. Ortiz got the gun, carried it inside, and gave it to Hernandez.

Ortiz said that he then went back to sleep.

Son Of A Vidic

Wouldn't be surprised now if Wallace started making counter claims (he stayed in the car and Ortiz got out ect) Then the shítfest would truly start.

SK1979

Man how are those stories allowed to be printed. Surely it makes the chances of getting a fair trial more remote?

When is the next court date? Presume there'll be a plead then?

UnitedIrishman

Th whole 'Ortiz fell asleep' part seems more than dodgy to me in terms of knowing what happened.

Son Of A Vidic

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Th whole 'Ortiz fell asleep' part seems more than dodgy to me in terms of knowing what happened.

Funny smell coming of it alright. Then I read that Ortiz said Wallace told him Hernanadez admitted to him (Wallace) that he shot the victim. So if Ortiz was woken by the car stopping and the other three men getting out for a píss.

Why would Hernandez admit to Wallace that he shot the victim? Wasn't Wallace outside of the car already with Hernandez and wouldn't he have known?

Now unless Wallace got out of the car and then fell asleep? Maybe that's why Hernandez felt he needed to tell Wallace who just whacked the victim.

They're like rats on a sinking ship. If this continues, it only increases the chances of us not knowing who the real shooter was. And if it was Hernandez, I'm sure his expensive lawyers would be able to pick apart what we've read so far.

Arawn

HigginsJ

Honest to god, words cannot describe the stupidity of some people

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000217697/article/pouncey-twins-don-free-hernandez-caps-at-club