Horses, Hooves, and Hammers - Farriery Discussion

TheFarrier

Evening all,
The Farrier here, long time browser, first time poster here on boards.
I'd be interested in hearing any thoughts, opinions, questions, complaints and compliments any of you may have regarding farriery and you're horses feet.
Chief among my reasons for starting this thread is something I come across alot in my career, that is people running down their farrier for doing things that the owner does not understand, or doing things differently to other farriers, or blaming farriers for things that may not be the farriers fault exclusively, or indeed at all.
Please feel free to discuss or ask questions, and while I promise to do my very best to respond to everything, I regret there will be times when I cannot reply to every post, so please do not take offence.
Thanks for reading.


P.S.
Feel free to discuss farriery among yourselves here, but please don't mention farriers by name here in a complaint.

monflat

God what a great thread ! Im extremely happy with my farrier bar the few times he has let me down with his punctuality .
He serms to keep his business to the small horse owners not too many big yards

I started with him 10 yrs ago he was not even qualified at d time was in training and even though he has let me down on one e two or three occasions I have always gone back to him

I like to do some handling on d horses before he comes its not his job to train a horse yo pick up his feet its his job to make it a comfortable as possible experience though .

He has done that.

He has great patience and s great aura about him which obviously puts any horse st ease
He has neber ever lost his cool or hit a horse . JHe understands horses and is just a natural with them.

His prices startin off were great and he will always try save me money by doin a remove if he feels necessary .

He is great and I intend to stick with him !!! He has obviously matured over the years too and he infoms me now when he definitely wil be here by a text 15 mins before do il have em ready

fits

I have gone through five farriers in five years. The reason? Punctuality and communication. Several times I have taken time off work and driven the twenty miles to yard only for them not to turn up. Now I will forgive it once or twice but there is no excuse for not letting someone know if you're late. Another issue has been unanswered texts and phone calls, or not coming within a reasonable timeframe.

Thankfully the guy I have now is excellent. He's a decent farrier (but better some days than others) and comes when he says he will. He came very quickly to treat my old pony who had laminitis recently. He's not the cheapest but I trust him with my horses feet.

TheFarrier

fits wrote: »

I have gone through five farriers in five years. The reason? Punctuality and communication. Several times I have taken time off work and driven the twenty miles to yard only for them not to turn up. Now I will forgive it once or twice but there is no excuse for not letting someone know if you're late. Another issue has been unanswered texts and phone calls, or not coming within a reasonable timeframe.

Thankfully the guy I have now is excellent. He's a decent farrier (but better some days than others) and comes when he says he will. He came very quickly to treat my old pony who had laminitis recently. He's not the cheapest but I trust him with my horses feet.

I hear what you're saying, punctuality is alot more important to owners than many farriers seem to realise. While the nature of working with horses makes it damn near impossible to keep appointments to the minute, I think their is no excuse for a farrier (vet, dentist, backman etc) to be perpetually late. It's easy to make a quick call or drop a text to let the owner know.


On another note, you say your farrier is better on some days then others. Is this in regard to punctuality, the standard of work, or his attitude??? If standard of work is what you mean, how do you judge it to differ from visit to visit???

Thanks,
TheFarrier

TheFarrier

monflat wrote: »

God what a great thread ! Im extremely happy with my farrier bar the few times he has let me down with his punctuality .
He serms to keep his business to the small horse owners not too many big yards

I started with him 10 yrs ago he was not even qualified at d time was in training and even though he has let me down on one e two or three occasions I have always gone back to him

I like to do some handling on d horses before he comes its not his job to train a horse yo pick up his feet its his job to make it a comfortable as possible experience though .

He has done that.

He has great patience and s great aura about him which obviously puts any horse st ease
He has neber ever lost his cool or hit a horse . JHe understands horses and is just a natural with them.

His prices startin off were great and he will always try save me money by doin a remove if he feels necessary .

He is great and I intend to stick with him !!! He has obviously matured over the years too and he infoms me now when he definitely wil be here by a text 15 mins before do il have em ready

It's good to hear you're so happy with your farrier.

One point I'd like to thank you for is the work you put in picking up your horses feet before calling the farrier. Some of my clients are great in this regard, but you'd be amazed at the amount of times I've entered a stable to find a 17hh 4yo draught snorting at me from the corner. While I will always give the horse (and the owner) the benefit of the doubt, I'm not going to put my livelihood at risk, because if I get hurt, I don't make money, so a broken wrist means 6 week minimum of no money coming in. It's not worth the risk of that happening for the €30 I'd make from trimming the horse.

TheFarrier

fits

TheFarrier wrote: »

I hear what you're saying, punctuality is alot more important to owners than many farriers seem to realise. While the nature of working with horses makes it damn near impossible to keep appointments to the minute, I think their is no excuse for a farrier (vet, dentist, backman etc) to be perpetually late. It's easy to make a quick call or drop a text to let the owner know.


On another note, you say your farrier is better on some days then others. Is this in regard to punctuality, the standard of work, or his attitude??? If standard of work is what you mean, how do you judge it to differ from visit to visit???

Thanks,
TheFarrier

I called him back to retrim a mare before inspection recently as wasn't 100% happy with the job. Its not his attitude, I just think some days are better than others for everyone. It wasn't an awful job by any means.

colm1988

fits wrote: »

I called him back to retrim a mare before inspection recently as wasn't 100% happy with the job. Its not his attitude, I just think some days are better than others for everyone. It wasn't an awful job by any means.

Hmmmm called him back because you were not happy with the job :eek: I wonder why you have went through five farriers:rolleyes:

fits

colm1988 wrote: »

Hmmmm called him back because you were not happy with the job :eek: I wonder why you have went through five farriers:rolleyes:

I didn't tell him outright I wasn't happy with the job actually. And I paid him both times.

monflat

colm1988 wrote: »

Hmmmm called him back because you were not happy with the job :eek: I wonder why you have went through five farriers:rolleyes:

I think the mare was for inspection so everything needed to b right

convert

colm1988 wrote: »

Hmmmm called him back because you were not happy with the job :eek: I wonder why you have went through five farriers:rolleyes:

If you don't have anything meaningful to contribute to the thread, then don't post.

TheFarrier

fits wrote: »

I called him back to retrim a mare before inspection recently as wasn't 100% happy with the job. Its not his attitude, I just think some days are better than others for everyone. It wasn't an awful job by any means.

What made you feel that your farriers idea of how your horses feet should be dressed wasn't the right one for your horse??? I'm not saying you had no right to think that, of course you do, but isn't the whole point of employing a farrier because of his expertise and experience dealing with feet???

TheFarrier

Stereomaniac

Yes, but if fits is passionate about his horses and takes a very active role in their development and maintenance, perhaps he will clash with people over standards of services then?

fits

TheFarrier wrote: »

What made you feel that your farriers idea of how your horses feet should be dressed wasn't the right one for your horse??? I'm not saying you had no right to think that, of course you do, but isn't the whole point of employing a farrier because of his expertise and experience dealing with feet???

TheFarrier

The first time was a quick regular trim. The feet were fine for a normal trim not fine for inspection.

The second time I told him she was going for inspection. He had a look at her walking and trotting up in hand and trimmed her carefully accordingly.

I had good advice.

Do you not personally find you do some jobs to a better standard than others?

TheFarrier

fits wrote: »

The first time was a quick regular trim. The feet were fine for a normal trim not fine for inspection.

The second time I told him she was going for inspection. He had a look at her walking and trotting up in hand and trimmed her carefully accordingly.

I had good advice.

Do you not personally find you do some jobs to a better standard than others?

Sorry, I had misunderstood you. What I gathered from your previous post was that your farrier had done a job that you found of a lower standard than you expected. I see now that this was not the case.

While I wouldn't intentionally perform substandard work, I do admit that there are certain times when I find myself spending longer than may be necessary on certain horses, or for certain clients. This may sound like I adopt a "it'll do" mentality in my day to day work, only reaching for perfection at selected times, but nothing could be further from the truth. Any farrier will agree that it is impossible to do perfect work 100% of the time, and even on my proudest moments there are little things which bug me about my performance. I work to a standard which I have set for myself which is attainable in day to day work. I will not perform work below this standard, no matter how uncooperative the horse or owner , no matter how unsatisfactory the working conditions. However there are occasions where I will say right, man, time to pull out the big guns. This may be to impress a client, or prepare a horse for a competition, show, or inspection.

TheFarrier

colm1988

monflat wrote: »

I think the mare was for inspection so everything needed to b right

Fair enough:cool:

convert wrote: »

If you don't have anything meaningful to contribute to the thread, then don't post.

Relax Big Chief!!! Bold Letters are very scary

Stereomaniac wrote: »

Yes, but if fits is passionate about his horses and takes a very active role in their development and maintenance, perhaps he will clash with people over standards of services then?

Very True!!!

I am a Farrier too. Loved my job, loved horses. But like everything else the humans ruined it for me. My Master let me go in early 2011. I had a nice wee number of customers. But like most farriers I had very bad payers. I was owed so so so much money by BIG HORSY EXPERTS (Cant Name) So in the end I left Ireland for Western Australia.

The most annoying story of my career was when a customer arrived at my house on sunday at 10pm of my GF birthday asked me in a PANIC to shoe two mares before the sales due to interested buyers. Once I was finished she said "Oh Il drop a few quid when I pass your house later as I forgot my wallet. 3 years now on and every time I seen that EXPERT she dodged me and legged it out the door.

Yes punuality is a sore spot to most Farriers BUT Horses can be problematic, customers can have other issues. I myself always called to say, 15 late due to unseen problems. Most dont mind, the others are a bit narky about things but when it came to pay most we SUFFERING FROM LOST WALLET SYNDROME???? or OH I TAUGHT I HAD THE MONEY....IL GET YOU AGAIN!!!

I used to love having a laugh with many of my customers, but then again a few used to drive me mad!!! But as they say in Australia... SUCH IS LIFE!!!

So all in all my career, my passion was soured by KNOW IT ALL GOOGLE VETS and WEEKEND WARRIORS!!!

fits

I don't think any horse owner would mind you being 15 minutes late. If that's all you were, you'd be the most punctual man in Ireland. It was the lack of communication killed me. I was stuck waiting out on the farm for two hours in the freezing cold one January with the horses caught and ready and one guy never answered my phone calls or bothered to text me... or turn up. He had already let me down that week. That was the last straw for him and I told him why.

I can imagine some customers would be difficult alright. I always pay on the day. Always.

As for google vets etc... I think explaining why you're doing what you're doing and why not something else should be part of the job. They are paying you after all, not just for your skill but also your knowledge and experience. (or at least, they should be paying you...) But you'll always get eejits.

colm1988

fits wrote: »

I don't think any horse owner would mind you being 15 minutes late. If that's all you were, you'd be the most punctual man in Ireland. It was the lack of communication killed me. I was stuck waiting out on the farm for two hours in the freezing cold one January with the horses caught and ready and one guy never answered my phone calls or bothered to text me... or turn up. He had already let me down that week. That was the last straw for him and I told him why.

I can imagine some customers would be difficult alright. I always pay on the day. Always.

As for google vets etc... I think explaining why you're doing what you're doing and why not something else should be part of the job. They are paying you after all, not just for your skill but also your knowledge and experience. (or at least, they should be paying you...) But you'll always get eejits.

Ah yeah I know what you mean like, everyone need to be in the know, but what peed me off was they expected me to agree with there views. I always explained why and how my way would be more effective, but it seened they just wanted me to agree with them. It drove me mental:( I once got a call from a customer....." My horse needs weights on his shoes because he is hitting him self behind" I explained why she did not need weights and why the horse was only going to help if the horse was PACING or TROTTING Not cross country or showjumping. But she was not havent it. So I put weights on. And true enough it didnt work.....AND SHE BAD MOUTHED ME IN HER LOCAL RIDING CLUB!!! ( I know because they all told me :rolleyes:)

Totally I agree with you with waiting for a NO SHOW and its a pain in the arse running round a field catching a horse or waiting during your lunch break for a farrier ( used to do that in my youth before I was one ) I always give my customers a bell or a buzz but when you cant help things, you cant help not coming till the next day!!!

But anyways, Farriers get a bad rap some times, but customers need to walk a mile in our shoes(steel toe boots stinking of wee and poo) :cool: :P :L

Peace out folks:D:P;):cool:

shellbean

Biggest thing for me is timing, the farrier which comes to the yard just says they'll be up in the morning or the afternoon. I work full time Monday to Friday, luckily I'm only 15 min drive from the yard, but its hard to just up and run out of the office when I get a text from the farrier saying he'll be there in 10 mins. No other issues though with him as he is really good and as previous posters said horses are unpredicatable so giving an exact time may not be possible. There is another farrier up in the yard who I used at first, he refused to put studs in my mares shoes, the reason for wanting them is because she slips out on the road. He told me she had no confidence on the road and that's why she slips, this mare is the most confident thing Ive ever ridden on the road (bin lorries, trucks everything has gone past her and she never batted an eye lid), again he did do a good job but I really need the studs otherwise we slide down the very steep hill outside the yard :-)

colm1988

shellbean wrote: »

Biggest thing for me is timing, the farrier which comes to the yard just says they'll be up in the morning or the afternoon. I work full time Monday to Friday, luckily I'm only 15 min drive from the yard, but its hard to just up and run out of the office when I get a text from the farrier saying he'll be there in 10 mins. No other issues though with him as he is really good and as previous posters said horses are unpredicatable so giving an exact time may not be possible. There is another farrier up in the yard who I used at first, he refused to put studs in my mares shoes, the reason for wanting them is because she slips out on the road. He told me she had no confidence on the road and that's why she slips, this mare is the most confident thing Ive ever ridden on the road (bin lorries, trucks everything has gone past her and she never batted an eye lid), again he did do a good job but I really need the studs otherwise we slide down the very steep hill outside the yard :-)

Well first rule of Horse Club is never assume any thing!!!
I would always do what they asked for (Even if it was wrong) for the sake of drilling and tapping a set of shoes is minimal. On the other hand maybe he did not see fit to put studs on for stress on the tendons etc. I cant say or answer that but if it helped ....Hey he was wrong and shame on him :rolleyes:

Believe it or not I had a customer in perth who wanted caulk and wedges on a 20 year old cob because he was slipping on the road:( I did it but in my heart I knew it was something else:(

TheFarrier

colm1988 wrote: »

Well first rule of Horse Club is never assume any thing!!!
I would always do what they asked for (Even if it was wrong) for the sake of drilling and tapping a set of shoes is minimal. On the other hand maybe he did not see fit to put studs on for stress on the tendons etc. I cant say or answer that but if it helped ....Hey he was wrong and shame on him :rolleyes:

Believe it or not I had a customer in perth who wanted caulk and wedges on a 20 year old cob because he was slipping on the road:( I did it but in my heart I knew it was something else:(

Colm that's nothing, I've had a client ask for caulkin and wedge with stud holes before the caulkin and the wedge. I don't mind drilling and tapping studholes, but the time put into forging a pair of caulkin and wedge hinds is bad enough, plus having to studpunch the holes, 'cause concave steel can't be drilled was cruel. And I got no more for my set than usual either.

TheFarrier

fits

What are caulkin and wedge shoes, and why do people want them?

TheFarrier

fits wrote: »

What are caulkin and wedge shoes, and why do people want them?

Caulkin and wedge are a traditional type of english style hunting hind shoe, where each heel is forged to create a projecting traction device. The effect is similar to having two studs in a shoe permanently. It is rarely seen nowadays, as the shoes have to be handmade. One client i shoe for wants them for extra grip while jumping banks out hunting, i usually just weld a piece of steel onto the heels and shape them with a grinder.

TheFarrier

colm1988

TheFarrier wrote: »

Colm that's nothing, I've had a client ask for caulkin and wedge with stud holes before the caulkin and the wedge. I don't mind drilling and tapping studholes, but the time put into forging a pair of caulkin and wedge hinds is bad enough, plus having to studpunch the holes, 'cause concave steel can't be drilled was cruel. And I got no more for my set than usual either.

TheFarrier

MOTHER OF GOOD GOD !!!! I feel for you buddy Remember my first pair :eek: I nearly died in the forge I remember being at a Great Shoeing Making Competition a few years ago in Limerick and watching a young English Apprentice make a Brilliant pair of caulk and wedges :cool: the boy had skills!!!

I actually found an Italian company selling decent enough Caulk and Wedges, but the fecking clips were too far back and the size of a Doritos chip
But they were great wearing shoes and cheap as chips!!! (Cheap doesnt always mean crap)

TheFarrier

colm1988 wrote: »

MOTHER OF GOOD GOD !!!! I feel for you buddy Remember my first pair :eek: I nearly died in the forge I remember being at a Great Shoeing Making Competition a few years ago in Limerick and watching a young English Apprentice make a Brilliant pair of caulk and wedges :cool: the boy had skills!!!

I actually found an Italian company selling decent enough Caulk and Wedges, but the fecking clips were too far back and the size of a Doritos chip
But they were great wearing shoes and cheap as chips!!! (Cheap doesnt always mean crap)

They are a lovely shoe when their done well, but for day to day work just not practical.

fits

TheFarrier wrote: »

They are a lovely shoe when their done well, but for day to day work just not practical.

I have seen them as a few rusty old shoes around the yard at home. I never knew what they were called.

TheFarrier

fits wrote: »

I have seen them as a few rusty old shoes around the yard at home. I never knew what they were called.

If they're fairly rusted I would imagine they are either roadsters or draught/workhorse shoes with caulks. Along the same lines but made from flat iron, either plain stamped or fullered, and would have been used on plough or cart horses rather than hunters. I'd love to post photo's to show those of ye who may not know the difference, but I'm using my phone. Hopefully get to a computer at the weekend and see what I can do.


TheFarrier

fits

Ah yes, they would have been draught horse shoes. There were only ever work/farm horses in that yard.

Interesting though.

What do they use on the carriage horses in Eastern Europe? that seems to be a different kind of shoe again?

TheFarrier

fits wrote: »

Ah yes, they would have been draught horse shoes. There were only ever work/farm horses in that yard.

Interesting though.

What do they use on the carriage horses in Eastern Europe? that seems to be a different kind of shoe again?

I couldn't say, having never seen shoeing from that side of the world. Was it in person you saw it or a photo that you could post here??? I'd be interested to see one if it's different. As I said though, working off the phone atm, so may be the weekend before I get to see it. Worth a shot though.


TheFarrier

colm1988

Plain Stamp and Fullered Caulk and Wedge

fits

TheFarrier wrote: »

I couldn't say, having never seen shoeing from that side of the world. Was it in person you saw it or a photo that you could post here??? I'd be interested to see one if it's different. As I said though, working off the phone atm, so may be the weekend before I get to see it. Worth a shot though.


TheFarrier

I saw it in person but didn't take any photos. It looks like they are up on wedges..

link

colm1988

So as the economy is still slow in Ireland, what is the Farrier Game like these days? Busy? Slow?