" Shame on you " Michael Martin

raymon

Michael Martin and Ogra Fianna Fail were ejected from a special needs protest that they tried to infiltrate early today.

Video is attached http://www.thejournal.ie/martin-told-shame-on-you-at-special-needs-cuts-protest-968311-Jun2013/

It took Michael a while to realise that the "shame on you" chant was being directed towards him.

This follows an attempt in recent months by Willie o Dea to infiltrate another protest. He was also heckled and asked to leave.

audman

raymon wrote: »

Michael Martin and Ogra Fianna Fail were ejected from a special needs protest that they tried to infiltrate early today.

Video is attached http://www.thejournal.ie/martin-told-shame-on-you-at-special-needs-cuts-protest-968311-Jun2013/

It took Michael a while to realise that the "shame on you" chant was being directed towards him.

This follows an attempt in recent weeks by Willie o Dea to infiltrate another protest. He was also heckled and asked to leave.

Shame on you is right Michael, shame all over every bit of you indeed, Michael.

raymon

Here is a vid of Willies ejection from a disability rally in November. Go to 3:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LaQRijv4-U&feature=youtu.be

audman

raymon wrote: »

Here is a vid of Willies ejection from a disability rally in November. Go to 3:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LaQRijv4-U&feature=youtu.be

This country needs more people like John Rodgers, well said John, well said!

An Claidheamh

Stuff like that really does give one confidence of the future. Hopefully that will serve as a warning.

I'm delighted the youth wing got in the neck aswell. Such an awfull deluded hackish shower.

They've no shame.

raymon

Even the Independent is reporting on the hipocracy

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/hypocrite-martin-forced-to-abandon-protest-29376159.html

Sir Humphrey Appleby

So members of Ogra FF, most of whom would not even have been in their teens when this country was being wrecked are to be refused the right to comment or protest at the current governments policies!
Now thats hypocrisy!

Sierra Oscar

A group of anarchists from the Workers Solidarity Movement tried to hijack a protest, whats new?

They also turned on the protest marshals after which is sickening.

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

A group of anarchists from the Workers Solidarity Movement tried to hijack a protest, whats new?

They also turned on the protest marshals after which is sickening.

That has nothing to do with it. Whatabout this and whatabout that is not relevant.

Bona fidae protesters did not want Michael Martin or Ogra Fianna Fail there .

In an earlier disability protest Willie o Dea was asked to leave by real protesters.

raymon

Old and grey wrote: »

So members of Ogra FF, most of whom would not even have been in their teens when this country was being wrecked are to be refused the right to comment or protest at the current governments policies!
Now thats hypocrisy!

Shame on them too.

They are trying to score political points on the backs of vulnerable people , who have been made worse off by the actions of the Anglo/Fianna Fail party

Sierra Oscar

raymon wrote: »

That has nothing to do with it. Whatabout this and whatabout that is not relevant.

Bona fidae protesters did not want Michael Martin or Ogra Fianna Fail there .

In an earlier disability protest Willie o Dea was asked to leave by real protesters.

Were you at the protest? If you were you would have known that the main body of protestors were to the rear on Molesworth street for an address and a ragbag of anarchist protestors prevented Ógra members from moving, and then proceeded to shout abuse. When marshals tried to intervene they were blocked by these anarchists who accused them of being 'collaborators' and were forcibly blocked.

I have little time for those who refuse others the right to express their voice.

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Were you at the protest? If you were you would have known that the main body of protestors were to the rear on Molesworth street for an address and a ragbag of anarchist protestors prevented Ógra members from moving, and then proceeded to shout abuse. When marshals tried to intervene they were blocked by these anarchists who accused them of being 'collaborators' and were forcibly blocked.

I have little time for those who refuse others the right to express their voice.

Anarchist protesters , that's ridiculous, please provide details of how you arrived at this conclusion.

The ones I saw on video were teachers who were angry at Fianna Fail cynically exploiting a special needs protest.

crusher000

FF are trying to protray themselves as victims in all of this now. Shows you how low the political parties can go in this country. Look at us we are being victimised the same as special needs children, we didn't cause this but are being blamed, we're own your side good citizens of Ireland. My god time to throw these low life scum of OUR island.

Sierra Oscar

raymon wrote: »

Anarchist protesters , that's ridiculous, please provide details of how you arrived at this conclusion.

No problem. This fella, who is a well known serial agitator by the name of Greg Kerr, also happens to be a member of the Workers Solidarity Movement - which is an anarchist organization. Satisfied?

He spends his life trying to infiltrate protests with the view to causing disruption, mainly due to the fact that few want anything to do with the Workers Solidarity Movement. It telling that he didn't bring along a WSM banner, nor did any of the other serial WSM agitators.

stevenmu

Just to play the role of devil's advocate for a moment, didn't special needs spending increase hugely under FF during the boom?

Cody Pomeray

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

No problem. This fella, who is a well known serial agitator by the name of Greg Kerr, also happens to be a member of the Workers Solidarity Movement - which is an anarchist organization. Satisfied?

He spends his life trying to infiltrate protests with the view to causing disruption, mainly due to the fact that few want anything to do with the Workers Solidarity Movement. It telling that he didn't bring along a WSM banner, nor did any of the other serial WSM agitators.

the hyocrisy of a FFer criticising someone from the WSM for bandwagoning this protest... what about the people chanting? I didn't know there was that many people in the WSM.

crusher000

stevenmu wrote: »

Just to play the role of devil's advocate for a moment, didn't special needs spending increase hugely under FF during the boom?

Didn't Income tax come down, didn't planning application get approved for a few euro, didn't housing market spiral out of control, didn't speculation and re-zoning prevail for developer friends. Oh don't go with the when they were in power ALL THE GOOD they did line.

chunkylover4

You don't visit this forum much do you ? Don't let facts distract you from FF/Bankers/Troika/travellers/social welfare/other people. bashing

Sierra Oscar

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

the hyocrisy of a FFer criticising someone from the WSM for bandwagoning this protest... what about the people chanting? I didn't know there was that many people in the WSM.

Were you at the protest? The vast majority of demonstrators were on Molsworth street when this happened, and were pretty disgusted that a small but vocal group from the WSM focused their energy on undermining the protest as a whole.

I have no problem with the WSM joining protests. However when they do they should highlight their affiliation - like Ógra did - instead of being cowards.

audman

chunkylover4 wrote: »

You don't visit this forum much do you ? Don't let facts distract you from FF/Bankers/Troika/travellers/social welfare/other people. bashing

Between 'facts' and politicians, we are all vulnerable to distractions like this every now and then. Let us be free of this and pave way to a brighter future for ourselves and our future generations.

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Were you at the protest? The vast majority of demonstrators were on Molsworth street when this happened, and were pretty disgusted that a small but vocal group from the WSM focused their energy on undermining the protest as a whole.

I have no problem with the WSM joining protests. However when they do they should highlight their affiliation - like Ógra did - instead of being cowards.

It is not brave for Fianna Fail to hijack a special needs protest. It is shameful.

What specifically were they protesting about anyway ?

Were you there yourself?

Sierra Oscar

raymon wrote: »

It is not brave for Fianna Fail to hijack a special needs protest. It is shameful.

What specifically were they protesting about anyway ?

Were you there yourself?

Hijack? They were there supporting a Fianna Fáil motion, and were invited by the organizers to attend. I am not so sure if the organizers were as keen to have the WSM in attendance given their record of destroying protests by detracting from the issue at hand. No one has a monopoly over the expression of opinion - but it seems some serial agitators are not happy about that.

Dáil Éireann - Private Members Business (Fianna Fáil) 25 - 26 June 2013

Cody Pomeray

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Were you at the protest?

Of course not.

That's irrelevant to the point I made: it is totally hypocritical for you to be criticizing another party or individual's "infiltration" of a protest just because your own party tried this and got what they deserved.

I'm just curious, if it was the WSM, why was Micheál Martin approaching them, and not the crowd on Molesworth Street. That hardly makes sense, does it. I don't believe that genuine protestors didn't protest FF.

Sierra Oscar

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Of course not.

That's irrelevant to the point I made: it is totally hypocritical for you to be criticizing another party or individual's "infiltration" of a protest just because your own party tried this and got what they deserved.

I'm just curious, if it was the WSM, why was Micheál Martin approaching them, and not the crowd on Molesworth Street. That hardly makes sense, does it. I don't believe that genuine protestors didn't protest FF.

You see if you were there, you would be aware of the fact that Micheál Martin was on the ground for fifteen minutes engaging with the crowd just fine before this occurred. It was only when he went to go back inside, which meant breaking away from the main body of the protest, that the agitators spotted their moment to cause trouble.

Also, as I pointed out above, Fianna Fáil did not 'hijack' this demonstration. They were encouraged to attend by the organizers, especially due to the fact that the protest as a whole was supporting a Fianna Fáil motion - something which seems to have slipped the minds of the serial agitators. Fianna Fáil will be out on the streets from here on in. The WSM and others may not be happy about that - but they will have to get over it.

raymon

stevenmu wrote: »

Just to play the role of devil's advocate for a moment, didn't special needs spending increase hugely under FF during the boom?

I think you are incorrect there , didn't FF reduce SNAs between 2009-2011 and proposed a cap for 2011+

EdCastle

FF wrecked the country. The protesters were within their rights to boot them out. If young people are stupid enough to join up with Ógra FF then they can expect to take the flack that comes with that. ....the next generation of wreckers is all they are!

Sierra Oscar

raymon wrote: »

I think you are incorrect there , didn't FF reduce SNAs between 2009-2011 and proposed a cap for 2011+

Fianna Fáil introduced SNA's in the first place. Between 1997 and 2011 the number of SNA's increased from 300 to just under 10,000.

Balmed Out

raymon wrote: »

I think you are incorrect there , didn't FF reduce SNAs between 2009-2011 and proposed a cap for 2011+

The boom (or more accurately the bubble as so much was due to a construction bubble) was over by 2009.

FF were obviously trying to cash in on an anti government protest but to be fair as part of their vote buying policies Michael Martin seemed to actually care about the issue. He was minister for education when special needs assistants and resource teachers were introduced.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

EdCastle wrote: »

FF wrecked the country. The protesters were within their rights to boot them out. If young people are stupid enough to join up with Ógra FF then they can expect to take the flack that comes with that. ....the next generation of wreckers is all they are!

FF wrecked the country, that is not in question, but they did so to the yells of "spend more, you're not spending as much as you could" from FG,Lab,SF,SWP etc!
Truth is few of those in the Dail,or seeking election to it from the mid 90's to the crash have clean hands.
As for Ogra FF, they have as much right to protest, and to participate in politics as anyone else.

raymon

Old and grey wrote: »

FF wrecked the country, that is not in question, but they did so to the yells of "spend more, you're not spending as much as you could" from FG,Lab,SF,SWP etc!
Truth is few of those in the Dail,or seeking election to it from the mid 90's to the crash have clean hands.
As for Ogra FF, they have as much right to protest, and to participate in politics as anyone else.

I hope Ogra , Martin and Willie turn up at more protests with their FF balloons, tshirts , hats and badges. I hope the protestors turn on them each time.

( not in a violent way )

It will remind them of the suffering they caused.

Cody Pomeray

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

You see if you were there...

You see, that's not credible.

I don't think you can expect people to take something you're saying here at face value, when you have an obvious political bias. As incredible as I find it that Martin was engaging with the WSM, or that the protestors were not the ones closest to the gate, even engaging with this hypothesis is futile to begin with.

For now, or until some objective source demonstrates otherwise, I think the video has to be taken at its face value.

Sierra Oscar

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

You see, that's not credible.

I don't think you can expect people to take something you're saying here at face value, when you have an obvious political bias. As incredible as I find it that Martin was engaging with the WSM, or that the protestors were not the ones closest to the gate, even engaging with this hypothesis is futile to begin with.

For now, or until some objective source demonstrates otherwise, I think the video has to be taken at its face value.

Whatever, you wouldnt believe me eitherway.

Although it is interesting that the Journal have updated their article to include the following:

Fianna Fáil Deputy Micheál Martin spoke to parents, SNAs and members of disability rights groups but a small number of people in the crowd shouted ‘Shame on you!’

You probably wont think the Journal are credible either though.

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Whatever, you wouldnt believe me eitherway.

Although it is interesting that the Journal have updated their article to include the following:



You probably wont think the Journal are credible either though.

That's not correct . The chants in the videos are from more than a small number of people.

Michael Martin took the correct decision to flee before others discovered he was trying to infiltrate for a photo opportunity.

Willie o Dea , scarpered quickly too in November when he too was detected trying to score some photo opportunities.

Sierra Oscar

There we have it, now the article is wrong because it is saying something you don't like to hear - but you were happy to share the article when it adhered to your viewpoint.

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

There we have it, now the article is wrong because it is saying something you don't like to hear - but you were happy to share the article when it adhered to your viewpoint.

Did Martins press office call the Journal request this "small number" edit? Can you check ?

The videos are clear this is a huge swell of people irritated and angered by Michael Martins infiltration.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

raymon wrote: »

I hope Ogra , Martin and Willie turn up at more protests with their FF balloons, tshirts , hats and badges. I hope the protestors turn on them each time.

( not in a violent way )

It will remind them of the suffering they caused.

I doubt anything anyone can say would distract you from "FF=satan" viewpoint.
I take that you don't believe that anyone who ever voted FF should be allowed excersise their franchise again either!

idiottje

I WAS there. I was standing on the corner at Buswells, in front of Eamon Ryan, as it happens. Let me start by saying I am not a member of ANY political party. I am no friend of FF, but neither do I support SF, FG, SWP and my feelings toward Labour are getting to the "same of the rest of them stage."
So, I was there, and there were more than just a few, or a small number of people chanting SHAME ON YOU! I would put it well over 100. Okay, I will admit that the SF guys were at the front row, but I would put their numbers at 15, and that was at a push. There was REAL anger that FF and Ogra FF should try and score political points at this event. Now, the FF and Ogra FF people can spin this anyway they want. However, if you genuinely believe that the vast majorty of people chanting were political representatives or associated to a socilist grouping, I worry for your grasp of what actually happened there, and the anger felt by what was mostly, the general public.

EDIT: Fix a typo.

jobeenfitz

Most politicians in my experience are, in the main out for what they can get for themselves. They want to get on the gravy train before retiring on to more than generous pensions. If in doing so they can do some good for the country and the people all the better. If on the other hand people suffer because of there selfish desire for power and money so be it.

Fine Geal, Fine Fail, Labour or whoever, they are for the most, all the same. If any politician can make a cut in SNA's or cuts in general to the vulnerable without first cutting or ending their crazy travel/attendance allowance, this shows me how much they really care for these people. I think the travel/attendance allowance is 12,000 tax free for TD's living in the Dublin region.

A country that borrows billions every year to run the country and these people think this payment is warranted on top of their healthy salaries. This payment is more than the amount a person on social welfare gets in a year.These same politicians are quick to tell us about the borrowed billions when defending cuts they make.

I'm not saying politicians should not be allowed attend protests, I am just questioning their sincerity toward the vulnerable and all the people of this country.

raymon

Old and grey wrote: »

I doubt anything anyone can say would distract you from "FF=satan" viewpoint.
I take that you don't believe that anyone who ever voted FF should be allowed excersise their franchise again either!

I don't think FF = Satan

I just don't like misrepresenters, liars, thieves, perjurers, traitors, etc etc

In this specific case I am taking exception to FFs misrepresentation of themselves.

raymon

Sierra Oscar , were you at the protest yourself. ?

I am asking only because you asked me the same question.
I was not there , I don't have anyone with educational special needs in my family / friends and I don't support any party or group that needs to get a photo ( or any party for that matter).

Sierra Oscar

Yep, I was there. Was standing near Buswells myself so I must have been quite close to idiottje.

golfball37

If FF supporters believe only crazies hold them responsible for most of the things that destroyed this country, then there is no hope for them.

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Yep, I was there. Was standing near Buswells myself so I must have been quite close to idiottje.

Why were you there ? As a Fianna Fail activist?

What was your specific protest ?

Sierra Oscar

raymon wrote: »

Why were you there ? As a Fianna Fail activist?

What was your specific protest ?

What is this, an inquisition? Why exactly does it matter to you?

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

What is this, an inquisition? Why exactly does it matter to you?

You asked me if I was there and I answered why I was not.

Sorry to have struck a raw nerve.... I was just returning your question back at you

So can I ask you - what was FF protesting about specifically ?

raymon

Just to jog the memories of Fianna Fail here is a special needs cuts protest from 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEyGOuBGGWo

In addition Fianna Fail have wasted 10s of millions of Euro in the courts blocking special needs cases.

The amnesia of Fianna Fail is staggering.

OCorcrainn

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

No problem. This fella, who is a well known serial agitator by the name of Greg Kerr, also happens to be a member of the Workers Solidarity Movement - which is an anarchist organization. Satisfied?

He spends his life trying to infiltrate protests with the view to causing disruption, mainly due to the fact that few want anything to do with the Workers Solidarity Movement. It telling that he didn't bring along a WSM banner, nor did any of the other serial WSM agitators.

You have said numerous times that you are a Fianna Fáil supporter so don't be surprised if no one is going to take what you say at face value.

OCorcrainn

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Fianna Fáil introduced SNA's in the first place. Between 1997 and 2011 the number of SNA's increased from 300 to just under 10,000.

Sources please.

raymon

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Sources please.

The numbers are technically correct. However( surprise , surprise) they are not the full story.

If you take the last 2.5 years of the FF mess the number of SNAs were cut . There were protests over these savage cuts.

Sierra Oscar

I suppose we can hardly expect raymon to post the latest Journal article on this matter, which highlights that a small but vocal group sought to hijack the protest?

At a protest outside Leinster House in Dublin last night, which was attended by around 700 people, when Fianna Fáil Deputy Micheál Martin spoke to parents, SNAs and members of disability rights groups, he was heckled by a small number of people in the crowd.

The usual agitators did themselves no good by detracting from the issue at hand last night.

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I suppose we can hardly expect raymon to post the latest Journal article on this matter, which highlights that a small but vocal group sought to hijack the protest?



The usual agitators did themselves no good by detracting from the issue at hand last night.

This whole episode was a major embarrassment to FF. The respinning of the original story must have been hard work for the FF press office.

Shame on them all for exploiting the vulnerable.