Any chance of lighter gun laws in the future?

Overature

Probably a stupid question but any chance of getting some lighter gun laws in the future?

juice1304

Not a hope in hell, They seem to make the government and gardai uneasy and there is probably more rubbish going to be coming from Europe. They won't go back on what they have already done it will be sensationalized in the media by idiots who think everything is an assault glock etc.. It won't look good for whoever is doing it. At least to the general ignorant public, You wouldn't believe the amount of people here who think guns are completely illegal. :rolleyes:
I am sick of it myself, I hope to get out of here and make a life for myself where i can get a decent job and shoot the type of firearms and competitions i like. It is a pretty pathetic situation here.

shikaakwa312

What timing, I was literally just wondering about the guns laws in Ireland. Im from the US but am moving there and I am an advocate of gun ownership. Especially because I live in arguably the most dangerous civilized city in the world and the government is trying to take our rights away from us becuase of mentally ill kids who arent registered. What are the main rules over there and why do you consider your laws at the moment tight? I think you should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon in public but I am not nearly as worried about it when I go there because it is not nearly as crime-ridden. Also, would a non-EU citizen be able to carry there, I have absolutely no rap sheet and only would have it for self-defense and am a firm believer in the public rights to own. Dont even like to hunt myself but i do support it. Also does Ireland have an equivalent of the US NRA? Thanks

aaakev

Not only are you not allowed carry over here, you are also not allowed have a centrefire pistol! You can have a .22 pustol limited to 5 shots, thats it...

Guns are not allowed here for self defense ether, humting or target shooting are your options, pretty much whatever caliber you want, semi auto centrefires are more difficult to get but you can get them.

Afaik you will have to be here 6 months before you can apply for a licence

Your gonna love it here....

shikaakwa312

Maybe i wont bring the john wayne shrine after all. thats rough- i thought itd be more like the wild west. scares me that ireland is becoming more liberal- not to get political- but come on now. 6 months im completely fine with it, thats actually a good thing imo. thanks man

IRLConor

shikaakwa312 wrote: »

scares me that ireland is becoming more liberal- not to get political- but come on now.

Just so that you don't get confused when you get here:

"Liberal" said by an American usually describes what most Europeans consider "normal". Things like social welfare, a public health system, etc. While Europeans may squabble over how much to spend on such things, the vast majority want them to exist in some form and hence "liberal" in the US political sense has no meaning over here.

"Liberal" as said by a European in relation to firearms usually means "laws like they have in America" and hence is seen as bad by some, but in the opposite sense to the one you might be used to.

If you're into politics and are curious about the state of the Irish political landscape then the politics forum here might be a good place to start asking questions.




To get back to the original topic, the only hope that I see of getting more reasonable gun laws is more EU harmonisation. If we had laws similar to the big EU countries (UK excluded) things would be a lot more sane here. They're not ideal by any stretch of the imagination and they all have their quirks but my impression is that they're a lot more logical than ours.

Grizzly 45

IRLConor wrote: »

J

To get back to the original topic, the only hope that I see of getting more reasonable gun laws is more EU harmonisation. If we had laws similar to the big EU countries (UK excluded) things would be a lot more sane here. They're not ideal by any stretch of the imagination and they all have their quirks but my impression is that they're a lot more logical than ours.

About as likely to happen as seeing Sarah Brady ,Dianne Feinstein and Blomberg down in Times square New York, next to the naked cowboy touting for NRA membership!

The EU is NOT our friends on this either.If anything they are worse!! Go and google the people who are behind this EU firearms survey. They are rabid red/green Socialists who have a record of anti gun and hunting statements and legislation.
In certain cases they have PRAISED Irish and UK gun laws as exemplary to the rest of the community..:eek::mad: IE banning certain types of firearms and IPSC. That went down really well with the German shooters I can tell you,who cant get enough semi auto rifles on their permits.:rolleyes:

I'll be the first to admit that our firearms laws policies and procedures are 100% daft in certain cases here,but the devil you know....And be careful for what you wish for....

shikaakwa312

I hope you people dont see me as the naked cowboy...I was referring to liberal in the social sense of the words (abortion, affirmative action, gun laws). And yes I am not for abortion, affirmative action, or Big Brother-esque gun laws, but as I stated originally I didnt want to delve into politics. In the US when we speak of economic programs we would say democrat, but liberal is more widely used for social issues. It just so happens that they end up being closely associated to one another in Congressional issues. Miscommunication- the first of many. And I think socialist programs are fine in Europe because here we suffer from diseconomies of scale as a result because there are too many people and we dont have the resources. For instance, the IRS was giving unfair treatment to tea-partiers, and supposedly nobody in the White House knew about it. I dont think that would happen in an EU nation of 4 million. There is no govt oversight here and a high school dropout i.e. Snowden is able to have access to all the sleeper CIA agents the U.S. - to me that is bad managerial skills. So here we have people collecting checks that shouldnt be but I doubt that is such a prevalent issue in EU, and atleast not as bad as we have it. But yea I am for those programs in a nation like ireland- to a certain extent of course.

IRLConor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

That went down really well with the German shooters I can tell you,who cant get enough semi auto rifles on their permits.:rolleyes:

This is precisely the reason I'm not massively worried about the EU harmonising the rules towards Irish ones. There would be too many votes lost in Germany, France, Spain, Italy, etc.

IRLConor

shikaakwa312 wrote: »

And I think socialist programs are fine in Europe

Socialist is another word that is poorly understood in the USA. There aren't that many politicians in the EU (with seats at least) who would like to implement the stuff that Marx, Engels, et al. wanted but almost all of them would be "socialist" in the eyes of Americans.

shikaakwa312

I dont think poorly understood are the words, but there are obviously different cultures and therefore different contexts of the word. The current President of France is a socialist, you dont think that is notable? Again, I am fine with the EU political system and Ireland's government. If anything, the U.S. should mimic Ireland's corporate tax rate and get Apple back in Silicon Valley but we dont and now we have idiotic senators making accusations against Ireland. We want to have our cake and eat it too (high tax but also keeping corporations domestic), literally and figuratively. But Marxism is an extreme form and therefore not a fair example (you might as well call me Adam Smith at that point), obviously no nation in the EU is to that extent and thank god for that. But saying the EU is socialist only in the eyes of Americans is either misguided or uninformed. Also, liberal has never been synonymous to a democrat in any nation. I prefer a free market, with little regulation but I am not completely opposed to Europe and that is where I stand.

Overature

shikaakwa312 wrote: »

What timing, I was literally just wondering about the guns laws in Ireland. Im from the US but am moving there and I am an advocate of gun ownership. Especially because I live in arguably the most dangerous civilized city in the world and the government is trying to take our rights away from us becuase of mentally ill kids who arent registered. What are the main rules over there and why do you consider your laws at the moment tight? I think you should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon in public but I am not nearly as worried about it when I go there because it is not nearly as crime-ridden. Also, would a non-EU citizen be able to carry there, I have absolutely no rap sheet and only would have it for self-defense and am a firm believer in the public rights to own. Dont even like to hunt myself but i do support it. Also does Ireland have an equivalent of the US NRA? Thanks

Leave all your notions of freedom behind. Handgun were flat out banned in 2008 except for .22 for some target shooters but good luck getting a license for one today. The only guns your allowed have are pump action shotguns (limited to 3 shell in it) and some types of bolt action rifles. On top of that you need a reason to have one and self defense doesn't count. The main reasons would be hunting (you would need to prove you were a farmer or something) or target shooting, there you would need to belong to a club. Then you need permission from 2 landowners who own more than 38 acres each to shoot on their land. then you need an approved gun safe attached to a wall. Then a police officer has to come out an inspect it. so yeah, concealed carry doesn't exist in english over here

Witcher

Overature wrote: »

Leave all your notions of freedom behind. Handgun were flat out banned in 2008 except for .22 for some target shooters but good luck getting a license for one today. The only guns your allowed have are pump action shotguns (limited to 3 shell in it) and some types of bolt action rifles.

Very simplistic list, a lot more available than that.

deerhunter1

Overature wrote: »

Probably a stupid question but any chance of getting some lighter gun laws in the future?

No but we will be made Lighter of our firearms if they had the chance:D

Cass

Overature wrote: »

Handgun were flat out banned in 2008 except for .22 for some target shooters but good luck getting a license for one today.

Handguns were not banned. Restricted short firearm licenses are no longer being issued. While technically the same thing it only applies a "ban" to new centrefire pistols. Those with licenses before 2008 are permitted to apply to keep them.

As for .22 handguns. They re being licensed with varying degrees of success and depending on model/mag capacity.

The only guns your allowed have are pump action shotguns (limited to 3 shell in it) and some types of bolt action rifles.

You can have;

• Over/Under shotguns
• Single barrel shotguns
• Pump action shotguns (restricted & unrestricted)
• Semi Auto shotguns (restricted & unrestricted)
• Air rifles
• Air pistols
• .22lr pistols
• Bolt action rifles (restricted & unrestricted)
• Semi Auto rifles (restricted and unrestricted in most all calibers)
• Crossbows

The main reasons would be hunting (you would need to prove you were a farmer or something) or target shooting,

Land permissions, owning land, gun club member or member of an authorised range covers all the reasons you need to own/possess a firearm.

Then you need permission from 2 landowners who own more than 38 acres each to shoot on their land.

There is no minimum size of land. None that i am aware of, and none that i know of in legislation. Where did you get that number?


Gun laws in this country will not be relaxed. They simply are not a priority. It is also not a route that the DoJ, An Gardaí want to go down. Any relaxing of the gun laws would have the general public, albeit uninformed, up in arms (excuse the pun).

We will never, ever see a relaxation to the point of being like America, etc. Frankly i wouldn't want it. Not to be confused with availability. So i would like to be able to legally license other makes of firearms, but not to relax the process needed to get it. I would actually prefer to see a more streamlined process for firearm applications. A relaxing on air rifles, and a drop in the minimum age for beginners.

Grizzly 45

IRLConor wrote: »

This is precisely the reason I'm not massively worried about the EU harmonising the rules towards Irish ones. There would be too many votes lost in Germany, France, Spain, Italy, etc.

Well if you dont mind having to do a written,oral and practical test that has a two year theoritical and practical apprenticeship behind it for your hunting liscense??Or a 12 month probie membership for your gun club liscense???At least it is state administerd,not farmed out to "for profit only" organisations and it is then for life,and depending on which liscense you hold you can have unlimited long guns for hunting,but only two handguns.OR depending on your shooting disipline Five handguns or rifles per disipline[excluding different calibre conversions].And dont mind being gone over by a head shrinker asking pretty invasive questions.
Cost for hunting over there about 25 thousand per annum and is mostly consortiums.You are then also responsible for any game damage caused to crops as well or vechicles.
Imagine how much fun our lot would have with a free rein like that??:eek:


Y

ou can have;

Pump action shotguns (restricted & unrestricted)
Semi Auto shotguns (restricted & unrestricted)
Semi Auto rifles (restricted and unrestricted in most all calibers)
Crossbows

And good luck trying to convince your local Cheif Super for a reason for wanting one!You will be doing that one in a district court it seems.:rolleyes:

Then you need permission from 2 landowners who own more than 38 acres each to shoot on their land.

Not in the Republic there is no mention of minimum acerage to shoot over..In the UK maybe? Seeing that we are supposedly METRIC that is 15.37.. hectares.:)

Gun laws in this country will not be relaxed. They simply are not a priority. It is also not a route that the DoJ, An Gardaí want to go down. Any relaxing of the gun laws would have the general public, albeit uninformed, up in arms (excuse the pun).

We will never, ever see a relaxation to the point of being like America, etc. Frankly i wouldn't want it. Not to be confused with availability. So i would like to be able to legally license other makes of firearms, but not to relax the process needed to get it. I would actually prefer to see a more streamlined process for firearm applications. A relaxing on air rifles, and a drop in the minimum age for beginne

True enough..By rights the laws need to be renovated and all put in one new firearms act.As well as tweaking it to liscensing the man not the gun and maybe bringing this up to a six yeart liscense?

rowa

I have to say that apart from the whole mess surrounding the centrefire pistols issue and some of the sports banned to back up getting rid of c/f pistols that we have it ok. Back in the 80's when I started shooting I knew dozens of lads who shot and I didn't know anyone who had anything other than a 12 bore shotgun or a .22 rifle. Getting a second rifle licence was next to impossible, if you shot foxes all you could have was a .22 hornet, if it was deer a .22-250. Nothing like lads shooting f-class with custom built rifles in a 1200 yard range was even dreamed of.
If the silly carry on of some of the supers/chief supers was to stop, making things fair and reasonable then we could consider ourselves to have it pretty good.

EWQuinn

IRLConor wrote: »

Socialist is another word that is poorly understood in the USA. There aren't that many politicians in the EU (with seats at least) who would like to implement the stuff that Marx, Engels, et al. wanted but almost all of them would be "socialist" in the eyes of Americans.

Ah there Mr. Conor we're gonna have to differ a little. We may have a different understanding than in ROI or EU, but not a "poor" understanding. There is a difference between social safety nets that help folks when they are down, and give incentives to help them get back up, and then on the other hand massive social programs that perpetuate themselves forever making life long dependencies contributing to societal decay, and insurmountable debt & insolvency. Most American voters more or less understand this distinction. I say this while not passing any judgment on Irish society of which I am not well informed.

I believe nations should not be expected to have identical gun laws, although to me the pendulum has swung way too far in one direction in the ROI, and restricting shhh, I can't say this word too loud, (((reloading))) is ludicrous.

Sparks

Reloading isn't outlawed, and never has been. Neither has possession of any of the equipment involved. What's strictly controlled is the primers and propellant (and before you laugh too loudly at that one, remember that we've had thirty years of domestic terrorism -- you guys had only ten before you were forcing all airline passengers through backscatter x-ray scanners whose long-term health effects weren't properly studied, reading everyone's email and recording everyone's phone conversations, and that's just the people who weren't the subject of direct military action -- in comparison to that, we might not be perfect but we're a long way from loo-la-land); and even there we were making progress until we decided that hissy fits and tablethumping were more fun than shooting and reloading.

Also, on the whole social safety net thing... you might want to read a bit more about that net, and possibly from someone other than people like the Craig T. Nelson's of this world...

downonthefarm

i would like to apply for a license but am on medication for depression,would this exclude me?

EWQuinn

Sparks wrote: »

Reloading isn't outlawed, and never has been. Neither has possession of any of the equipment involved. What's strictly controlled is the primers and propellant (and before you laugh too loudly at that one, remember that we've had thirty years of domestic terrorism -- you guys had only ten before you were forcing all airline passengers through backscatter x-ray scanners whose long-term health effects weren't properly studied, reading everyone's email and recording everyone's phone conversations, and that's just the people who weren't the subject of direct military action -- in comparison to that, we might not be perfect but we're a long way from loo-la-land); and even there we were making progress until we decided that hissy fits and tablethumping were more fun than shooting and reloading.

Also, on the whole social safety net thing... you might want to read a bit more about that net, and possibly from someone other than people like the Craig T. Nelson's of this world...

I am well informed enough to see the results of social policies applied and misapplied, thank you very much Mr. Sparks. I also have read, was taught and know what is good government and not good government, thus I am a well qualified and informed American voter, with a proud Irish heritage.

Results speak volumes, and in the end that is the only metric that matters.

As to reloading, I apologize for originally saying outlawed, you are correct. However the terrorism thing does not justify the restrictions such that there is in effect no reloading in ROI, totally out of sync with most other EU nations that also were not unaffected by terrorism themselves, so I will stand by that one. You make a valid point about the hissy fits etc, that is a problem not unique to Ireland.

Sparks

downonthefarm wrote: »

i would like to apply for a license but am on medication for depression,would this exclude me?

It could be used as grounds for that by the local super, yes, but you could appeal it if so. The law in this area isn't drafted yet and what little that is there was more intended to act as a ban for people having psychotic breaks (which should tell you that no mental health professionals had an active hand in that law in the first place).

Sparks

EWQuinn wrote: »

Results speak volumes, and in the end that is the only metric that matters.

Indeed.

downonthefarm

Sparks wrote: »

It could be used as grounds for that by the local super, yes, but you could appeal it if so. The law in this area isn't drafted yet and what little that is there was more intended to act as a ban for people having psychotic breaks (which should tell you that no mental health professionals had an active hand in that law in the first place).

thank you for the reply,havnt had any issues in a few years,i will apply anyways and see what the story is

shikaakwa312

down on the farm you are clearly trolling but in the chance that you arent i highly advise you not to get a firearm.

as for sparks, do you know anybody who has ever brought statistics to the table that were applicable for both sides of the argument? I can show you 10 other graphs that show the success of supply side economics. The problem is that people like barack obama and ben bernanke dont care about the general welfare of the total population so we are transitioning into socialism and that creates that. In America you get what you put in or atleast it use to be that way. Rand Paul 2016

rowa

shikaakwa312 wrote: »

down on the farm you are clearly trolling but in the chance that you arent i highly advise you not to get a firearm.

as for sparks, do you know anybody who has ever brought statistics to the table that were applicable for both sides of the argument? I can show you 10 other graphs that show the success of supply side economics. The problem is that people like barack obama and ben bernanke dont care about the general welfare of the total population so we are transitioning into socialism and that creates that. In America you get what you put in or atleast it use to be that way. Rand Paul 2016

It wasn't socialism that destroyed ireland and most of europe but unbridled , unregulated capitalism. Trying to say anything else while the media is thick with the anglo irish tapes is ludicrous.

shikaakwa312

I did not say I 1 thing about the economy of Ireland. I was completely discussing American issues, and solely because they were being discussed. If you look back at what started all this it was my stance on capitalism v socialism in America- not EU. Also, the point of capitalism is deregulation but I'm fine with the word unbridled in that sentence. And yes obviously there must be some regulation but capitalism does not fail because of deregulation instead thats how it is successful.

EWQuinn

Lets look at another set of numbers that matters directly to poor downtrodden working stiffs like us:

Consumer Prices in United States are 24.75% lower than in Ireland
Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 19.33% lower than in Ireland
Rent Prices in United States are 3.06% lower than in Ireland
Restaurant Prices in United States are 30.76% lower than in Ireland
Groceries Prices in United States are 17.27% lower than in Ireland
Local Purchasing Power in United States is 52.02% higher than in Ireland

The "wealth inequality" crowd wants us to assume that the disparity of wealth is because of exploitation of the poor & lower middle class. Such is not the case. I too wish and hope for better wealth distribution, in many cases its not fair, just like life is not fair. However I have little faith that government programs, bureaucrats (like our friends in the IRS), and heavy handed socialism can ever achieve it for us. History and the record indicate otherwise. Heed this well:

"A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both." Milton Friedman

By and large, even in these times, we are happy in America and we have little kinship with those who continually complain about the so called 1%, and sometimes "Occupy" our streets, leaving destruction and filth in their wake, and in many instances stopping us from earning an honest living.

Note to Mods: This is my last post on this issue, please dont blame me for getting off topic, I had a lot of help. I still think Ireland and the Irish are great, including Sparks!

IRLConor

EWQuinn wrote: »

Ah there Mr. Conor we're gonna have to differ a little. We may have a different understanding than in ROI or EU, but not a "poor" understanding. There is a difference between social safety nets that help folks when they are down, and give incentives to help them get back up, and then on the other hand massive social programs that perpetuate themselves forever making life long dependencies contributing to societal decay, and insurmountable debt & insolvency. Most American voters more or less understand this distinction. I say this while not passing any judgment on Irish society of which I am not well informed.

The point I was (unsuccessfully) trying to make is that as someone who doesn't think that there's anything inherently wrong with uneven distributions of wealth shown in Sparks's graph I am still often considered a socialist in the US just because I think universal healthcare is a good idea. The fact that most US people I've met can't tell the difference between European-style social democrats and actual Marx-had-a-lot-of-good-ideas socialists tells me that they do have a very poor understanding of what socialism is.

Grizzly 45

rowa wrote: »

It wasn't socialism that destroyed ireland and most of europe but unbridled , unregulated capitalism. Trying to say anything else while the media is thick with the anglo irish tapes is ludicrous.

If we had raw unregulated capitalism as you say here.AIB,Anglo,and B of I would have gone to the wall long ago and be now history of a bunch of failed busisness.They would have been gone within a week,and now Europe would proably be a much better place for it ,as would this country.We would be out of the euro and trading with new currency and be proably well on the way back to recovery.:mad:
We dont do responsibility or charging certain cliques of Irish society with criminal negligence..Laws and taxes certainly are for the little people in Ireland and that's not the leprachauns!

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If we had raw unregulated capitalism as you say here.AIB,Anglo,and B of I would have gone to the wall long ago

Yes, but that doesn't mean we have socialism, it means we have cronyism, deceit and incompetence.
We're not really a great ideological example in the whole libertarianism/capitalism/socialism/communism debate...



...btw, can anyone see a shooting-related topic from here?