Would it be incredibly unpatriotic to suggest that I no longer support reunification?

hatrickpatrick

I'm not so sure I see re-unification as a desirable outcome for Ireland anymore.
Now before anyone attacks this, hear me out for a second. This is not anything to do with politics, I'm as nationalist as anyone which will be obvious to anyone who's seen me post here before.
But the border is fast becoming the only escape from the nanny state our Republic is turning into. At this moment, you can't buy a packet of roman candles for new years in the Republic, but you can get one for a fiver just across the border. At this moment, our government is attempting to further restrict people's freedom by repeatedly hammering the prices of booze and cigarettes - both of which can be found far more cheaply if you head up North. And now we have this big from the Department of health to look after the vinters attack both problem and responsible drinkers by introducing minimum pricing, potentially raising the age for drinking or at least off sales to 21, ban sponsorship, and a whole pile of other nastiness coming from our distinguished Roisin Shorthall's legacy in the Department of Health. It's only going to get worse - last year we had the suggestion of a blanket ban on remote voicemail access because there are some eejits who don't know how to change their default password and are being hacked by journalists :rolleyes:

Forgive me for saying this, but the way things are going I'd almost prefer if the government here was abolished and Stormont had authority over the whole island. At least they don't seem inclined to treat their entire population as children who shouldn't be allowed to make their own decisions, or base such restrictions on civil liberties on protecting the minority of eejits from themselves.

Thoughts?

gallag

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm not so sure I see re-unification as a desirable outcome for Ireland anymore.
Now before anyone attacks this, hear me out for a second. This is not anything to do with politics, I'm as nationalist as anyone which will be obvious to anyone who's seen me post here before.
But the border is fast becoming the only escape from the nanny state our Republic is turning into. At this moment, you can't buy a packet of roman candles for new years in the Republic, but you can get one for a fiver just across the border. At this moment, our government is attempting to further restrict people's freedom by repeatedly hammering the prices of booze and cigarettes - both of which can be found far more cheaply if you head up North. And now we have this big from the Department of health to look after the vinters attack both problem and responsible drinkers by introducing minimum pricing, potentially raising the age for drinking or at least off sales to 21, ban sponsorship, and a whole pile of other nastiness coming from our distinguished Roisin Shorthall's legacy in the Department of Health. It's only going to get worse - last year we had the suggestion of a blanket ban on remote voicemail access because there are some eejits who don't know how to change their default password and are being hacked by journalists :rolleyes:

Forgive me for saying this, but the way things are going I'd almost prefer if the government here was abolished and Stormont had authority over the whole island. At least they don't seem inclined to treat their entire population as children who shouldn't be allowed to make their own decisions, or base such restrictions on civil liberties on protecting the minority of eejits from themselves.

Thoughts?

I have always said that the best thing for n.i and ireland would be reunification and reformation with the U.K. With the 14trillion cubic feet of gas found in the U.Kand the ability to harvest any deep oil of the irish cost and more pragmatic changes like a unified corporate tax and less tax avoidance could turn these islands into a power house to face the dangerous future ahead.

TriggerLivesOn

The economy is bad enough as it is without them shower high unemployment, petrol bombs etc

golfball37

I grew up very Patriotic and Republican even. This failed Vichy state has made me hate everything I believed growing up. I'm still proud to be Irish but I am not one bit proud of this horrible banana republic.

The Provos were attacking the wrong state imho.

I would love to see a re-unification but under British rule. There are about 500 families who have everything sewn up in Eire and I'd rather the Windsors to be perfectly honest.

ardmacha

While there should be a reassessment of policies of all sorts in the United Ireland, I don't think that being in favour of partition so that people can smoke and drink more is a very convincing or positive argument. Smoking is foolishness, which the government should discourage given the health costs it imposes, and Ireland has an unhealthy attitude to drink in general, so does not need to drink more.

downonthefarm

no you are on the money there.they can keep the 6counties.we have enough of our own problems here without being left wit that clusterfcuk of a clusterfcuk of a place IMO

charlemont

I'm all for reunification but the points op stated are good valid reasons to be against it..This joke shop republic is far too corrupt and interferes far too much in its citizens life's..


But if we were reintegrated into the UK the same shower of people would still be pulling the strings here and any benefits gained would soon be lost..

hidinginthebush

You're saying that the UK is a welcome escape from a nanny state sort of government? Riiiight

TriggerLivesOn

Let them keep their 6 counties

hfallada

The NI economy compared to the South seems very underdeveloped. For the size of its population, it lacks a lot of manufacturing and its high value manufacturing is almost non existent. If we join with NI, does that mean the irish tax payer has to support the NHS then? Does support the massive police force? If the people go ape over a flag at city hall, what will it be like with when it is merged with the south.

As a young person, very few people my age care about a united Ireland. Most people my age dont see NI as Ireland or most of the people as Irish. OP you failed you consider, although Ireland has some the highest duty on cigarettes and alcohol. Our income tax rates for Low income earners are among the lowest in the EU. Also the wages in NI are very low compared to the south

hatrickpatrick

ardmacha wrote: »

While there should be a reassessment of policies of all sorts in the United Ireland, I don't think that being in favour of partition so that people can smoke and drink more is a very convincing or positive argument. Smoking is foolishness, which the government should discourage given the health costs it imposes, and Ireland has an unhealthy attitude to drink in general, so does not need to drink more.

It's not about specifics, it's more the general principle that NI appears to be far less a nanny state than Ireland is. Now that there is no longer institutionalized discrimination against sections of the population up North, which currently has better civil liberties?

hatrickpatrick

hidinginthebush wrote: »

You're saying that the UK is a welcome escape from a nanny state sort of government? Riiiight

Actually no, but NI seems to have it better than either Ireland or mainland UK in terms of personal freedom. Or am I simply misreading the situation?

golfball37

Would any British Politician get away with the strokes Reilly & Shatter have pulled? Or FF men before them. We have a complicit media and an education system that breeds emigrants or establishment voters.

The people of NI who wanted to be reunified with their fellow countrymen had a lucky escape.

gurramok

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Actually no, but NI seems to have it better than either Ireland or mainland UK in terms of personal freedom. Or am I simply misreading the situation?

Not when the marching season comes.

Anyone fancy paying sky high council rates on their houses like people in NI do? Our own property tax is nothing in comparison when you start paying £1000+ on your 3 bed semi.

ardmacha

Anyone fancy paying sky high council rates on their houses like people in NI do? Our own property tax is nothing in comparison when you start paying £1000+ on your 3 bed semi.

Don't be bringing facts into it. The Republic is overtaxed, don't you know, with tax a higher % of GDP than Latvia or Romania.

Corvo Attano

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm not so sure I see re-unification as a desirable outcome for Ireland anymore.

That not unpatriotic.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

But the border is fast becoming the only escape from the nanny state our Republic is turning into. At this moment, you can't buy a packet of roman candles for new years in the Republic, but you can get one for a fiver just across the border. At this moment, our government is attempting to further restrict people's freedom by repeatedly hammering the prices of booze and cigarettes - both of which can be found far more cheaply if you head up North.

I'd almost agree until I see lads throwing fireworks at eachother.
And the booze and ciggies are only cheaper because of tax not civil liberty and even then they arnt much cheaper with the exchange rate.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Forgive me for saying this, but the way things are going I'd almost prefer if the government here was abolished and Stormont had authority over the whole island.

However that is not very patriotic at all.

gallag

gurramok wrote: »

Not when the marching season comes.

Anyone fancy paying sky high council rates on their houses like people in NI do? Our own property tax is nothing in comparison when you start paying £1000+ on your 3 bed semi.

£480 for a three bed semi, that includes water, waste etc.

gurramok

gallag wrote: »

£480 for a three bed semi, that includes water, waste etc.

http://www.dfpni.gov.uk/lps/index/property_rating/rates-calculator.htm

A house with a value of £200,000 in Belfast has a rates bill of £1395.
£200k is at current exchange rate €233,000, that's a rates bill of €1,630

A house with a value of £150,000 in Belfast has a rates bill of £1046.
£150k is at current exchange rate €175,000, that's a rates bill of €1222

Anyone still fancy paying that? Dublin residents perhaps?!

gallag

gurramok wrote: »

http://www.dfpni.gov.uk/lps/index/property_rating/rates-calculator.htm

A house with a value of £200,000 in Belfast has a rates bill of £1395.
£200k is at current exchange rate €233,000, that's a rates bill of €1,630

A house with a value of £150,000 in Belfast has a rates bill of £1046.
£150k is at current exchange rate €175,000, that's a rates bill of €1222

Anyone still fancy paying that? Dublin residents perhaps?!

What would the equivalent cost in dublin?

gurramok

gallag wrote: »

What would the equivalent cost in dublin?

315euro for a 150,000-199,000 house
405 euro for a 200,000-250,000 euro house
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/housing_taxes_and_reliefs/local_property_tax.html

Most houses in Dublin that are not kips and that are not in no-go areas are worth about 150k-250k and then upwards for our well to do brethren!

Waste charges for Dublin City Council are here http://www.dublincity.ie/WaterWasteEnvironment/Waste/DomesticWasteServices/Pages/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.aspx

If your bin is emptied every 2 weeks, you could say waste charges would be around 250euro per year.

So for the house worth €233k in Dublin, it would pay €655(property tax and waste) instead €1630 for the equivalent house in Belfast, thats 2.48 times more expensive.

nesf

Corvo Attano wrote: »

However that is treason.

Please don't throw around that word. It just needlessly gets people's backs up and really you're using it horribly incorrectly. Thanks.

Corvo Attano

nesf wrote: »

Please don't throw around that word. It just needlessly gets people's backs up and really you're using it horribly incorrectly. Thanks.

Aye aye cap'n.

gallag

gurramok wrote: »

315euro for a 150,000-199,000 house
405 euro for a 200,000-250,000 euro house
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/housing_taxes_and_reliefs/local_property_tax.html

Most houses in Dublin that are not kips and that are not in no-go areas are worth about 150k-250k and then upwards for our well to do brethren!

Waste charges for Dublin City Council are here http://www.dublincity.ie/WaterWasteEnvironment/Waste/DomesticWasteServices/Pages/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.aspx

If your bin is emptied every 2 weeks, you could say waste charges would be around 250euro per year.

So for the house worth €233k in Dublin, it would pay €655(property tax and waste) instead €1630 for the equivalent house in Belfast, thats 2.48 times more expensive.

Is that property tax and water aswell?

Systemic Risk

ardmacha wrote: »

Don't be bringing facts into it. The Republic is overtaxed, don't you know, with tax a higher % of GDP than Latvia or Romania.

Ireland is not overtaxed but it would be more informative to look at tax in terms of GNP where repatriated profits of multinationals are removed (as we know the multinationals pay a very low rate of tax).

In terms of GNP we are pretty much at the European average and similar enough to the UK. However in terms of value for money it could be argued that we are overtaxed as many of the public services we receive are sub-par. Think health system/public transport anywhere outside Dublin/policing.

see Brendan O'Connors presentation in the link below comparing the tax/GDP and tax/GNP values
http://taxpolicy.gov.ie/presentations/tax-conference-june-2013/

Godge

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's not about specifics, it's more the general principle that NI appears to be far less a nanny state than Ireland is. Now that there is no longer institutionalized discrimination against sections of the population up North, which currently has better civil liberties?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Actually no, but NI seems to have it better than either Ireland or mainland UK in terms of personal freedom. Or am I simply misreading the situation?

Would that include the personal freedom to set up your own company and run it without the interference of the nanny state? Such as the founders of Anglo Irish Bank had?

One person's nanny state is another person's well-regulated environment.

It is difficult to see how you can be in favour of less regulation for issues relating to health and safety (fireworks, alcohol, cigarettes, soft drugs) but against less regulation for the creators of wealth (bankers, developers, businessmen). Otherwise, who would create the money to pay for all those things of personal freedom?

old hippy

I supported the idea of unification once. But now I see the 6 counties/NI as a separate entity. I'd rather see it free from British and Irish concern, tbh.

Anyways, the ugly sectarianism, homphobia and racism would drive me around the bend. Not a SF supporter as such but I do admire the work they've done to try and counter said brand of ugliness.

gurramok

gallag wrote: »

Is that property tax and water aswell?

Includes property tax and waste charges as stated. We don't have water charges for Dublin users yet.

So yes, its cheaper to live down here when owning a house than in Belfast. We have it good alright.

gallag

gurramok wrote: »

Includes property tax and waste charges as stated. We don't have water charges for Dublin users yet.

So yes, its cheaper to live down here when owning a house than in Belfast. We have it good alright.

Probably is cheaper to live down south then, as long as you dont get sick, drive, eat food or drink :-)

ardmacha

In terms of GNP we are pretty much at the European average and similar enough to the UK. However in terms of value for money it could be argued that we are overtaxed as many of the public services we receive are sub-par. Think health system/public transport anywhere outside Dublin/policing.

At the European average yes. But those below us like Spain have very poor social welfare.
As for the UK they too have an enormous deficit and are probably not collecting enough. That said if dole etc was reduced to UK levels and university fees increased to UK levels then it might be possible to have better public services.

woodoo

gallag wrote: »

Probably is cheaper to live down south then, as long as you dont get sick, drive, eat food or drink :-)

You are right the standard of living is much dearer in Ireland and water charges are coming in 2015.

Ozymandius2011

No it's not unpatriotic. We have to put our own house in order before we can expand the national territory.

Seanchai

golfball37 wrote: »

Would any British Politician get away with the strokes Reilly & Shatter have pulled?

This sort of irrational everything British is wonderful/everything Irish is crap reactionary rubbish my goat up. Did you ever hear of ... where to even begin ... cash for questions? fraudulent expenses? ....

Not to mention the massive lie to get British people to support the Iraq invasion, and the transfer of billions of € worth of Iraqi oil into British hands. How can you miss all this?

And as for your contention that politicians in the Six are not corrupt, I believe there is currently a number of highly controversial planning decisions around the Antrim area involving DUP politicians which tell another story. Ian Paisley Jnr? And Peter and Iris Robinson's financial affairs?

Ozymandius2011

Even the majority of Catholics up there no longer want unification judging by the recent BBC Spotlight poll. Just 17% of Northerners said they would vote for a UI. Also the entire public sector in NI is almost the size of ours in terms of the actual number (nor per capita - I mean the actual number) of workers i.e. 280,000-290,000. We already spend €20 billion on the PS we have, and we cannot afford that without the Troika. So the concept that we afford a doubling of the same PS for thw forseeable future seems ludicrous to me.

Steo M

Reunification with Britain & the pound would be a much better option for us, we've never been so pish poor since we joined the EU.
Since Britain, America & China are our biggest exporting trading partners, why do we need Europe?
All that lot have been trying to do is take our bread & butter multinationals off us.
We can still sting the bondholders if we leave the EU & alleviate the hardship every Irish citizen is experiencing.
Look at Iceland, they bailed nobody out, told the bondholders to funk off, had a few years austerity & now they're economy is flying again.
Of course this will never happen while all we have to vote for are weasley, gombeem, cap in hand gob$hites who couldn't do a deal in a brothel. They gave our natural resources away for a bag of magic beans.
It's them & their cronies who should be up for treason for raping & pillaging our beautiful little country. I always said, the Provos shot the wrong enemy.

.jacksparrow.

I see good old British propaganda is alive and well in this thread, keep telling people something and they will eventually believe it.

golfball37

Seanchai wrote: »

This sort of irrational everything British is wonderful/everything Irish is crap reactionary rubbish my goat up. Did you ever hear of ... where to even begin ... cash for questions? fraudulent expenses? ....

Not to mention the massive lie to get British people to support the Iraq invasion, and the transfer of billions of € worth of Iraqi oil into British hands. How can you miss all this?

And as for your contention that politicians in the Six are not corrupt, I believe there is currently a number of highly controversial planning decisions around the Antrim area involving DUP politicians which tell another story. Ian Paisley Jnr? And Peter and Iris Robinson's financial affairs?

People were jailed in England for the expenses scandal, thats my point.

smokingman

Seeing as they have the highest concentration of creationists in the world up there, I really don't want that level of stupid added to our own.

COYW

Seanchai wrote: »

This sort of irrational everything British is wonderful/everything Irish is crap reactionary rubbish my goat up. Did you ever hear of ... where to even begin ... cash for questions? fraudulent expenses? ...

They were investigated and jailed in no time ..... Is that not good enough for you? In good old republican Ireland, we haven't even got around to stopping their paychecks, let alone making them face any form of justice.

Nothing wrong with not wanting a UI OP. I have always been against it and I consider myself to be as Irish as anyone. I am really proud of my British roots too. As you said, as people mature and have to worry about the real issues that life puts in front of them, children, job, mortgage etc, they tend to realise that things like a UI are not important. I often feel really sorry for Republicans who are consumed by a hatred of all things British.

I firmly believe that if we were still part of the UK, we would be in a far healthier position than we are now.

old hippy

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I see good old British propaganda is alive and well in this thread, keep telling people something and they will eventually believe it.

Telling them what? What propaganda?

Einhard

I don't really care to be honest. And I doubt many people do either.





About reunification that is.

T runner

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm not so sure I see re-unification as a desirable outcome for Ireland anymore.
Now before anyone attacks this, hear me out for a second. This is not anything to do with politics, I'm as nationalist as anyone which will be obvious to anyone who's seen me post here before.
But the border is fast becoming the only escape from the nanny state our Republic is turning into. At this moment, you can't buy a packet of roman candles for new years in the Republic, but you can get one for a fiver just across the border. At this moment, our government is attempting to further restrict people's freedom by repeatedly hammering the prices of booze and cigarettes - both of which can be found far more cheaply if you head up North. And now we have this big from the Department of health to look after the vinters attack both problem and responsible drinkers by introducing minimum pricing, potentially raising the age for drinking or at least off sales to 21, ban sponsorship, and a whole pile of other nastiness coming from our distinguished Roisin Shorthall's legacy in the Department of Health. It's only going to get worse - last year we had the suggestion of a blanket ban on remote voicemail access because there are some eejits who don't know how to change their default password and are being hacked by journalists :rolleyes:

Forgive me for saying this, but the way things are going I'd almost prefer if the government here was abolished and Stormont had authority over the whole island. At least they don't seem inclined to treat their entire population as children who shouldn't be allowed to make their own decisions, or base such restrictions on civil liberties on protecting the minority of eejits from themselves.

Thoughts?

If Britain withheld its annual bailout of NI you'd soon change youre tune.

NI or any part of Ireland cant compete within the UK.


More people pass the border in 5 mins on the M1/E1 than between Britain and NI in an entire day. It makes no sense to have a political border on this Island bar the threat of prolonged sectarian violence.

The best economic fit is a seperate single political juristinction on this Island.

Youd imagine a true republic would be the best fit to manage this, (many radical Protestants would probably be republican (small r) in outlook).

Stormont did impose sectarian policies on its state and is now set up to ensure a majority cannot hurt a minority for sectarian zero sum reasons.

Ironically un untrusting coalition between unionist and nationalist would be one way to ensure a higher liklihood of equality and fairness for all in any single entity

Wont happen anytime soon. Ireland was divided by sectarian headcount and the sectarian headcount is now locked in law!

T runner

COYW wrote: »

They were investigated and jailed in no time ..... Is that not good enough for you? In good old republican Ireland, we haven't even got around to stopping their paychecks, let alone making them face any form of justice.

Nothing wrong with not wanting a UI OP. I have always been against it and I consider myself to be as Irish as anyone. I am really proud of my British roots too. As you said, as people mature and have to worry about the real issues that life puts in front of them, children, job, mortgage etc, they tend to realise that things like a UI are not important. I often feel really sorry for Republicans who are consumed by a hatred of all things British.

I firmly believe that if we were still part of the UK, we would be in a far healthier position than we are now.

Britain bails out NI to the tune of 20 billion per annum. How much would the whole Island cost? 100 billion? We would sink Britain! Ireland was never meant to be a fucntioning part of the UK. It was absorbed soley for security reasons. It is not a fit.

A true republic here would mean equality and equal oppurtunity regardless of gender, upbringing, age etc. I think most Irish people would wish for such a thing. It has little to do with hating British.

Power in this country is held by a few conservative men untrusting of its citiznes. It is more or less an extension of a colonial model. Realistically we are never going back to the UK. If we wash away all the useless self deprication, we have the ability and are in a position to improve this country. That is logically where our efforts should go.

gallag

T runner wrote: »

Britain bails out NI to the tune of 20 billion per annum. How much would the whole Island cost? 100 billion? We would sink Britain! Ireland was never meant to be a fucntioning part of the UK. It was absorbed soley for security reasons. It is not a fit.

A true republic here would mean equality and equal oppurtunity regardless of gender, upbringing, age etc. I think most Irish people would wish for such a thing. It has little to do with hating British.

Power in this country is held by a few conservative men untrusting of its citiznes. It is more or less an extension of a colonial model. Realistically we are never going back to the UK. If we wash away all the useless self deprication, we have the ability and are in a position to improve this country. That is logically where our efforts should go.

How much would these islands save by clamping down on tax avoidance and having a unified corporate tax? Massive capital expenditure through both islands and completing all fracking and offshore deep drilling without outside companies taking 80%+ giving cheep energy for manufacturing. with rising economy's like china, Brazil and india etc the future is not going to be kind to these little islands, mabey together we will get though.

gurramok

COYW wrote: »

Nothing wrong with not wanting a UI OP. I have always been against it and I consider myself to be as Irish as anyone. I am really proud of my British roots too. As you said, as people mature and have to worry about the real issues that life puts in front of them, children, job, mortgage etc, they tend to realise that things like a UI are not important. I often feel really sorry for Republicans who are consumed by a hatred of all things British.

I firmly believe that if we were still part of the UK, we would be in a far healthier position than we are now.

Nice to see an Unionist point of view on this. We were not in a healthy position when in the UK against our will, we will just be like the neglected north of England if we were now.

COYW

T runner wrote: »

Britain bails out NI to the tune of 20 billion per annum. How much would the whole Island cost? 100 billion? We would sink Britain! Ireland was never meant to be a fucntioning part of the UK. It was absorbed soley for security reasons. It is not a fit.

You are missing my point. We (the RoI) would never have been allowed to get overselves into the position that we are in as a result of overall governance from London. They would have monitored us much like the Troika does now. Irish republicans have shown over the past 100 years that they are not capable of self-governance.

Can you elaborate on why Ireland was never meant to be a functioning part of the UK? As gallag pointed out, we would have been a really tight economic unit, with a very strong voice within the EU. At the moment, we are an infantile republic which is the laughing stock of Europe.

T runner wrote: »

A true republic here would mean equality and equal oppurtunity regardless of gender, upbringing, age etc. I think most Irish people would wish for such a thing. It has little to do with hating British.

Idealistic waffle. I must be missing all the love, respect and affection that the republican community shows towards Britain.

gurramok wrote: »

Nice to see an Unionist point of view on this. We were not in a healthy position when in the UK against our will, we will just be like the neglected north of England if we were now.

That was 100 years ago. Can you prove that we would not have our own parliament now, probably for all 32 counties, based in Dublin or Belfast, under the stewardship of London, in a far healthier economic and social position than we are now?

gallag

COYW wrote: »

You are missing my point. We (the RoI) would never have been allowed to get overselves into the position that we are in as a result of overall governance from London. They would have monitored us much like the Troika does now. Irish republicans have shown over the past 100 years that they are not capable of self-governance.

Can you elaborate on why Ireland was never meant to be a functioning part of the UK? As gallag pointed out, we would have been a really tight economic unit, with a very strong voice within the EU. At the moment, we are an infantile republic which is the laughing stock of Europe.



Idealistic waffle. I must be missing all the love, respect and affection that the republican community shows towards Britain.



That was 100 years ago. Can you prove that we would not have our own parliament now, probably for all 32 counties, based in Dublin or Belfast, under the stewardship of London, in a far healthier economic and social position than we are now?

I firmly believe that if ireland was not forced by terrorists to leave the U.K It would be united and prosperous, it is likely the U.K would have had an Irish P.M by now.

old hippy

gallag wrote: »

I firmly believe that if ireland was not forced by terrorists to leave the U.K It would be united and prosperous, it is likely the U.K would have had an Irish P.M by now.

Hang on, I'm not a card carrying nationalist but what??? What????

Einhard

old hippy wrote: »

Hang on, I'm not a card carrying nationalist but what??? What????

You see, when Britain forces an entire nation to her whim by dint of military force, it's legitimate. When people seek to resist, it's terorism.

Or so the logic goes...

gallag

Einhard wrote: »

You see, when Britain forces an entire nation to her whim by dint of military force, it's legitimate. When people seek to resist, it's terorism.

Or so the logic goes...

Sneaking about shooting people and flying against the will of the people at the time made them terrorists.

Mr Cumulonimbus

COYW wrote: »

They would have monitored us much like the Troika does now.

Did the UK monitor NI from 1921 to 1969 re discrimination against the Nationalist minority there?

Irish republicans have shown over the past 100 years that they are not capable of self-governance.

If that's the case, Unionists weren't capable either then when holding power on their own in NI pre-1972.

Idealistic waffle. I must be missing all the love, respect and affection that the republican community shows towards Britain.

Why? T runner said 'most irish people', not just republicans.

Can you prove that we would not have our own parliament now, probably for all 32 counties, based in Dublin or Belfast, under the stewardship of London, in a far healthier economic and social position than we are now?

Counter-factual conjecture. How do you prove it?

guinnessdrinker

COYW wrote: »

You are missing my point. We (the RoI) would never have been allowed to get overselves into the position that we are in as a result of overall governance from London. They would have monitored us much like the Troika does now.

Just on this COYW, you do realise that the British Government themselves had to go to the IMF for their own bail out in 1976 to prevent the country going down the drain?

COYW wrote: »

Can you prove that we would not have our own parliament now, probably for all 32 counties, based in Dublin or Belfast, under the stewardship of London, in a far healthier economic and social position than we are now?

This is impossible to prove one way or another without the aid of a crystal ball!

I think a 32 county Ireland with one parliament representing all people on the island is attainable in the future. Not in the near future obviously due to the current global economic situation. I don't see anything wrong with a future unified Ireland then rejoining the Commonwealth either.