DUP MLA has 'no problem' burning Tricolour

gurramok

http://www.u.tv/News/MLA-has-no-problem-burning-Tricolour/5852ffc7-f339-4fe5-a934-e38680ab5baf

DUP MLA Paul Girvan said he has "no problem" with burning a tricolour on Eleventh Night bonfires.

Apparently, its a part of "culture". Unreal.

Mr Girvan, who was involved in the "eleventh hour" discussions with the community over their concerns, said putting an Irish flag on top of a bonfire was "part of the culture".

Last year there was the publicity surrounding the burning of Polish flags on bonfires but no publicity around Irish flags being regularly burned.

Respect is a 2 way street Mr Girvan.

gallag

Burning flags is an absolute nonsense, I would be interested to hear a sf representative comment on the burning of British flags in west belfast and londonderry to see if they appear more enlightened.

Skrynesaver

Bigot hides behind culture of bigotry, news at 11

the_syco

I've no problem about burning of a tricolour on top of a bonfire let's be honest. This is the flag of a foreign country as far as I'm concerned.

Paul Girvan

Paraphrased;

I've no problem about the bombing of the english army. Let's be honest; this is the army of a foreign country as far as I'm concerned.

If you want peace, you should not act like a bigoted tard, imo.

pablomakaveli

Given its a culture built around bigotry its not that shocking.

I'm certain he'd be singing a different tune if it was the Union Jack getting burned.

It really does seem sometimes that the DUP actively try and find the most bigoted sectarian idiots they can find to run in elections.

Iwasfrozen

the_syco wrote: »

Paraphrased;


If you want peace, you should not act like a bigoted tard, imo.

Well as much as this guy is an idiot burning a piece of cloth can't be compared to killing people.

bmaxi

Just wondering. If the Scottish referendum on independence next year is carried, the Union Jack will become defunct. Which flag will Loyalists worship and Republicans burn then?

WakeUp

Paul Girvan obviously lacks intelligence bigots usually do. Let them burn our flag if they want its "part of their culture" afterall what a fine culture that is.

I am pie

So, if we extend out what Girvan is saying here, it's basically OK to burn other countries flags and it would be OK for Gerry Adams to burn the Union Jack in Louth for example?

It's the crushing lack of intelligence and the cowardly lack of positive leadership which harms the whole of Northern Ireland in these instances.

I am from Belfast from that 'side' of the fence, the DUP annoy me gravely 90% of the time and 10% of the time they flat out disgust me.

I am pie

On a lighter note ..via his wiki page. I wonder how recent that edit was...

"Despite Paul's unionist background, he is an ardent Glasgow Celtic supporter and is frequently seen at Celtic Park. He is even reputed to have a likeness of Bobo Baldé tattooed on his chest."

woodoo

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Given its a culture built around bigotry its not that shocking.

Unfortunately that is true imo.

Burning the flag of their nearest neighbour in so called peaceful times is pathetic. But the orange culture is from another century anyway it may take a long time for them to cop on. They are so detached from their beloved mainland. Can you imagine burning an Irish flag in Politically Correct England today. It wouldn't be tolerated.

NIMAN

NI is such a sad country, and shows that for all the 'progress' its supposed to be making, it hasn't really moved on at all. Peace is built on both sides compromising, and burning each others flags isn't showing much respect.

Obama says we are a great example to the rest of the world. Yeah right.

HurtLocker

Any news I hear about the north makes me glad there's a border between us. I'd hate to be associated with or from that bigoted hateful country. The bigots would do my head in even more than the idiots we have in our parliament.

A member of parliament not seeing anything wrong with burning their nearest and only land neighbours flag is beyond a joke, its a sad reflection on NI and its "breaking down of community divides" they frequently spin in the news

woodoo

My attitude has changed in relation to a United Ireland as i have got older. It is not something i'm too bothered about these days. I always favoured it growing up so if it came to a vote i'd never vote against it. But the thought of sharing a society with the likes of Girvan and bigots like him doesn't appeal to me.

Karl Stein

I wonder will they burn the Union Flag when England cuts them loose.

gurramok

woodoo wrote: »

But the thought of sharing a society with the likes of Girvan and bigots like him doesn't appeal to me.

They're a minority. Most civilised Unionists would not tolerate that behaviour. Every state has its disruptive minority, even London had their rioters who tried to intimidate the decent civilised majority.

Crooked Jack

HurtLocker wrote: »

Any news I hear about the north makes me glad there's a border between us. I'd hate to be associated with or from that bigoted hateful country. The bigots would do my head in even more than the idiots we have in our parliament.

A member of parliament not seeing anything wrong with burning their nearest and only land neighbours flag is beyond a joke, its a sad reflection on NI and its "breaking down of community divides" they frequently spin in the news

its a sad reflection on the DUP and unionism. nobody else.

Crooked Jack

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well as much as this guy is an idiot burning a piece of cloth can't be compared to killing people.

Who mentioned killing anyone?

Iwasfrozen

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Who mentioned killing anyone?

The guy I quoted.

OCorcrainn

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well as much as this guy is an idiot burning a piece of cloth can't be compared to killing people.

Completely agree, god knows that they have tried though.

Former DUP man jailed over racist pipe-bomb attack

everdead.ie

woodoo wrote: »

Unfortunately that is true imo.

Burning the flag of their nearest neighbour in so called peaceful times is pathetic. But the orange culture is from another century anyway it may take a long time for them to cop on. They are so detached from their beloved mainland. Can you imagine burning an Irish flag in Politically Correct England today. It wouldn't be tolerated.

An Irish Flag was burnt in Liverpool on the grounds of Liverpools Orange Lodge you can imagine Irish-Liverpudlians(sp?) shock at the whole thing there is currently an investigation by the police taking place.

It should be noted that I don't know if the Orange Lodge had anything to do with the young group who did it, it may have just happened on there grounds because they thought it would be the safest place to do it in an area they could likely get the crap kicked out of them for doing something like that. Also note in the article below they don't mention if the order had anything to do with it but just quote some stuff from their web site.


http://www.irishpost.co.uk/news/outrage-as-mob-torch-irish-tricolour-in-liverpool

gallag

Crooked Jack wrote: »

its a sad reflection on the DUP and unionism. nobody else.

What about all the union flags being burnt by Republicans on bonfires? Does anyone in here think this disrespecting of neighbours is limited to one side?

bilston

Crooked Jack wrote: »

its a sad reflection on the DUP and unionism. nobody else.

It is indeed a sad reflection on the DUP not on Unionism as a whole though.

Of course there are many things that are a sad reflection on both sides but that's for another day this is about Paul Girvan's comments and speaking as a Unionist I think they're pretty poor. But then I, like the large majority of Unionists, have nothing to do with the Loyal Orders so I don't really understand their attitude to things like this.

HurtLocker

gallag wrote: »

What about all the union flags being burnt by Republicans on bonfires? Does anyone in here think this disrespecting of neighbours is limited to one side?

Its wrong end of. Bit there is not much people down here can do about it. It's logical that we care more about our flag being burnt in the UK than the UK flag being burnt in the UK. I've never witnessed the public burning of a Union Jack in the south being condoned by an Irish. It's never been an annual occurrence and I've personally never witnessed an idiot burn the Union Jack down here.

iDave

The irony of course they're burning a flag thats one third orange. Pathetic. This 'public representative' shows there is still a thirst within Unionsim to return to the apartheid era.

gallag

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=internment+bonfires&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Z17NUeyzBYyX0QWhi4GoBQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=360&bih=567

Crooked Jack

gallag wrote: »

What about all the union flags being burnt by Republicans on bonfires? Does anyone in here think this disrespecting of neighbours is limited to one side?

Instances of this are few and far between and tend to be the actions of individuals, I've certainly never seen it happen at a Sinn Fein event.
I did a quick google search and the most recent incident I could find of a union jack being burned at a Sinn Fein event was down south over 13 years ago and even then it was a deliberate protest over a very specific issue, nothing like the annual sectarian binge unionism gorges on.
I also noted that unionist politicians came out to strongly condemn the burning of a flag as an unacceptable action.
Republican bonfires are also a rarity these days, only a few places have them and again they tend not to be associated with mainstream republicanism.
This is all indicative of changes we've seen within republicanism that unionism has so far refused to accept. A general move away from a war time mentality.
I have to say however, some of the responses have been hilariously typical of a few posters on here. The DUP encourage stoking up sectarian hatred and the immediate response is "but, but, but Sinn Fein."

Crooked Jack

gallag wrote: »

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=internment+bonfires&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Z17NUeyzBYyX0QWhi4GoBQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=360&bih=567

congratulations, you have proven absolutely nothing. Apart, of course, from the last point I made above.

everdead.ie

gallag wrote: »

What about all the union flags being burnt by Republicans on bonfires? Does anyone in here think this disrespecting of neighbours is limited to one side?

gallag wrote: »

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=internment+bonfires&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Z17NUeyzBYyX0QWhi4GoBQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=360&bih=567

I'm not sure what you are pointing out here no one is saying it is OK to burn any flag.

It's ridiculous symbols of National identity shouldn't be smeared by anyone and I'm sure no one here is advocating it is ok to burn the Union Flag but you can't use the excuse that oh they are doing it so we can do it.

The biggest issue is who said it this is meant to be someone who represents Northern Ireland, not someone who should condone such inflammatory behaviour during a period of heightened tensions between neighbours.

Fratton Fred

HurtLocker wrote: »

Its wrong end of. Bit there is not much people down here can do about it. It's logical that we care more about our flag being burnt in the UK than the UK flag being burnt in the UK. I've never witnessed the public burning of a Union Jack in the south being condoned by an Irish. It's never been an annual occurrence and I've personally never witnessed an idiot burn the Union Jack down here.

The union flag is constantly referred to as The Butcher's Apron though, which is just another way of showing disrespect for a nation.

Crooked Jack

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The union flag is constantly referred to as The Butcher's Apron though, which is just another way of showing disrespect for a nation.

"but, but, but" is the new "never, never, never."

laoch na mona

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The union flag is constantly referred to as The Butcher's Apron though, which is just another way of showing disrespect for a nation.

I always felt it was called the butchers apron because of the empires bloody history?

let unionists burn flags it just show how bigoted there "culture" is

Fratton Fred

laoch na mona wrote: »

I always felt it was called the butchers apron because of the empires bloody history?

let unionists burn flags it just show how bigoted there "culture" is

But only by Irish republicans and only the union flag, not the French tricolour for example. It is all an attempt by one side to put down the other.

I don't know why people get excited by the loyalists, they do this for a reaction and they get it.

laoch na mona

Fratton Fred wrote: »

But only by Irish republicans and only the union flag, not the French tricolour for example. It is all an attempt by one side to put down the other.

Well Britain has some dodgy history with regards its empire so its fair criticism in my opinion

and burning a flag is much worse then calling a flag a name

the proplem is you have a DUP politician openly supporting it. I've never heard a SF politician call the Union flag the butchers apron

fryup

laoch na mona wrote: »

I've never heard a SF politician call the Union flag the butchers apron

well not in public, SF are more sly with their bigotry

Crooked Jack

fryup wrote: »

well not in public, SF are more sly with their bigotry

Oh, so now we've moved on from what Sinn Fein actually say and do (seeing as that didnt yield the results you wanted) to what some people think Sinn Fein think.
The mental acrobatics going on here are astounding.

Fratton Fred

laoch na mona wrote: »

Well Britain has some dodgy history with regards its empire so its fair criticism in my opinion

and burning a flag is much worse then calling a flag a name

the proplem is you have a DUP politician openly supporting it. I've never heard a SF politician call the Union flag the butchers apron

And the French were saints were they?

Why is it worse? It is done for the same reason, it is all about insulting the other side in a childish way.

DUP politicians aren't as savvy as SF ones (less intelligent for want of a better term) so they are good for sound bites like this. SF are far too media aware to insult a nation in a similar way.

Crooked Jack

Fratton Fred wrote: »

And the French were saints were they?

Why is it worse? It is done for the same reason, it is all about insulting the other side in a childish way.

DUP politicians aren't as savvy as SF ones (less intelligent for want of a better term) so they are good for sound bites like this. SF are far too media aware to insult a nation in a similar way.

ZING! Deflect onto the French now. This thread gets better and better. I wonder who will get the blame next for the actions of a DUP MLA.
Here's my prediction.


http://www.redgamingtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/aliens-meme.jpeg

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

And the French were saints were they?

.

Don't forget the Belgians Fred.

Scofflaw

This thread is rapidly descending towards the kind of depths associated with mass bannings and infractions. I'll be back in while.

moderately,
Scofflaw

HurtLocker

gallag wrote: »

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=internment+bonfires&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Z17NUeyzBYyX0QWhi4GoBQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=360&bih=567

So what? Northern Irish citizens burning their own flags? Why should that give unionist excuse to burn my flag as the Stormont member who started this said "Its a foreign countrys flag". What do they want us down here to do about it? It shouldn't be up to the Republic of Ireland citizens to actively not condone the burning of the Union Jack. It's happening in Northern Ireland, thus a problem of NI to solve. Burning my flag is just a sectarian act of provocation and aggression against one of the least confrontational of neighbours to have.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

Don't forget the Belgians Fred.

That's a very well thought out and useful contribution Nodin, well done.

Seeing as you regularly use the term Butcher's Apron, how do you feel about burning flags?

Fratton Fred

HurtLocker wrote: »

So what? Northern Irish citizens burning their own flags? Why should that give unionist excuse to burn my flag as the Stormont member who started this said "Its a foreign countrys flag". What do they want us down here to do about it? It shouldn't be up to the Republic of Ireland citizens to actively not condone the burning of the Union Jack. It's happening in Northern Ireland, thus a problem of NI to solve. Burning my flag is just a sectarian act of provocation and aggression against one of the least confrontational of neighbours to have.

I'm pretty sure protestants in the south are angered by this, so I'm not sure sectarian is the correct term.

I am pie

As deplorable as Girvan's actions are, and they are deplorable, it is fairly depressing to see people try to use it as a stick to beat an entire country (or 6 counties) with.

For me those who descend into this level of stereotyping and smearing are guilty of the same nonsense that Girvan is.

We would be well served not to judge society by the actions and words of the minority.

I am pie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'm pretty sure protestants in the south are angered by this, so I'm not sure sectarian is the correct term.

Provocative and hateful probably cover it.

You´re way off track trying to draw parallels between use of the butchers apron term and flag burning.

One is a public show of disrespect and intolerance by an MP, an MP who serves on a number of public commissions who would represents a large minority of nationalists in the South Antrim area. It's a serious insult to many of his constituents and damaging to the democratic process establish in NI, the other is a snide remark. If you can find someone from a FF, FG or the LAbour party in government using that phrase there might be some equivalency, even then I would say burning a flag is many times more provocative.

Otherwise, you are clutching at straws.

Girvan should be sacked from every public committee he sits on (and there are many, check his bio) today. If we are serious about trying to portray a progressive image, stimulate investment to reduce dependency on the UK funded public sector then we need to root outall the idiots who damage this progress. If the DUP were serious about governing fairly they would expel this guy from the party.

Fratton Fred

I am pie wrote: »

Provocative and hateful probably cover it.

You´re way off track trying to draw parallels between use of the butchers apron term and flag burning.

One is a public show of disrespect and intolerance by an MP, an MP who serves on a number of public commissions who would represents a large minority of nationalists in the South Antrim area. It's a serious insult to many of his constituents and damaging to the democratic process establish in NI, the other is a snide remark. If you can find someone from a FF, FG or the LAbour party in government using that phrase there might be some equivalency, even then I would say burning a flag is many times more provocative.

Otherwise, you are clutching at straws.

Girvan should be sacked from every public committee he sits on (and there are many, check his bio) today. If we are serious about trying to portray a progressive image, stimulate investment to reduce dependency on the UK funded public sector then we need to root outall the idiots who damage this progress. If the DUP were serious about governing fairly they would expel this guy from the party.

I don't disagree with you about Girvan, in a normal political environment he would be out on his ear.

my biggest issue is with those who use this as a stick to beat unionists with, but would quite happily have flag burning parties of their own.

I am pie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I don't disagree with you about Girvan, in a normal political environment he would be out on his ear.

my biggest issue is with those who use this as a stick to beat unionists with, but would quite happily have flag burning parties of their own.

The reality is that for one reason or another this is a one sided issue. SF marshall the troops more effectively to the extent that we do not see widespread burning of UK flags during internment events in August.

I would wager that over the July fortnight many hundreds of Irish flags are burnt, seriously. That and the extreme fuss that was made over normalising the use of the union flag over City hall show a depressing lack of comprehension and/or respect on the part of the government of NI.

Another point we should consider is that this is manna from heaven for anti-GFA republican terrorists.

Girvan could not be stupider.

everdead.ie

I am pie wrote: »

As deplorable as Girvan's actions are, and they are deplorable, it is fairly depressing to see people try to use it as a stick to beat an entire country (or 6 counties) with.

For me those who descend into this level of stereotyping and smearing are guilty of the same nonsense that Girvan is.

We would be well served not to judge society by the actions and words of the minority.

I'm not sure why people are using it as a stick to beat Northern Ireland with, it's just a shame people like Girvan seem to shout so loud.

Fratton Fred

everdead.ie wrote: »

I'm not sure why people are using it as a stick to beat Northern Ireland with, it's just a shame people like Girvan seem to shout so loud.

is it that they shout loud, or is it that when they do engage mouth before brain, there is an enormous PR machine waiting to exploit it to the fullest extent?

everdead.ie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

is it that they shout loud, or is it that when they do engage mouth before brain, there is an enormous PR machine waiting to exploit it to the fullest extent?

It's probably a bit of both to be honest.

junder

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Instances of this are few and far between and tend to be the actions of individuals, I've certainly never seen it happen at a Sinn Fein event.
I did a quick google search and the most recent incident I could find of a union jack being burned at a Sinn Fein event was down south over 13 years ago and even then it was a deliberate protest over a very specific issue, nothing like the annual sectarian binge unionism gorges on.
I also noted that unionist politicians came out to strongly condemn the burning of a flag as an unacceptable action.
Republican bonfires are also a rarity these days, only a few places have them and again they tend not to be associated with mainstream republicanism.
This is all indicative of changes we've seen within republicanism that unionism has so far refused to accept. A general move away from a war time mentality.
I have to say however, some of the responses have been hilariously typical of a few posters on here. The DUP encourage stoking up sectarian hatred and the immediate response is "but, but, but Sinn Fein."

Every year at internment bonfires union flags get burnt. The two internment bonfires I see over looking the westlink are covered top bottem in union flags, don't see any Sinn Fein members calling for them to be taking down, moreover I am sure there are more then a few Sinn Fein members attending the lighting of the bonfires and clapping as the fire takes hold. Do I care, not really, more important things to be worrying about