Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

Norwesterner

namloc1980 wrote: »

Haha. Are you seriously trying to compare crime in Ireland to basket case regions like central america??

I didn't mention Ireland in my post.
I was responding to the guy who said homicide rates were not affected by the Death penalty in the U.S.
I stated they had the lowest rates in the Continent.
Even the Caribbean islands of Barbados, St Kitts, and the Bahamas have higher rates than the U.S.

namloc1980

Norwesterner wrote: »

Happy to leave the E.U?
Um......yes.

I see you've thought this through.

claypigeon777

If you are not prepared to pull the lever and hang someone, if you are not prepared to pull the trigger to shoot someone, if you are not prepared to administer the fatal dose, if you are not prepared to swing the axe or drop the guillotine blade, then I think you should shut up if you advocate the death penalty.

It's easy to call for someone's death when you aren't the one doing the killing.

Norwesterner

namloc1980 wrote: »

I see you've thought this through.

Abso....wait for it......lutely.

rasper

Not a hope , humans have been tortuing , imprisoning and killing each other for crimes for centuries
, where or when does it work, has to be a better wsy

Norwesterner

claypigeon777 wrote: »

If you are not prepared to pull the lever and hang someone, if you are not prepared to pull the trigger to shoot someone, if you are not prepared to administer the fatal dose, if you are not prepared to swing the axe or drop the guillotine blade, then I think you should shut up if you advocate the death penalty.

It's easy to call for someone's death when you aren't the one doing the killing.

Dross. Thats like saying unless you're prepared to scrape a foetus from a womb you shouldn't support abortion.
I don't want to climb down a sewer with a stick and a net to fish condoms in order to unblock an exit, but hey I support it being done.

namloc1980

Norwesterner wrote: »

I didn't mention Ireland in my post.
I was responding to the guy who said homicide rates were not affected by the Death penalty in the U.S.
I stated they had the lowest rates in the Continent.
Even the Caribbean islands of Barbados, St Kitts, and the Bahamas have higher rates than the U.S.

Canada has a substantially lower rate and has no death penalty. How do you square that one? Germany, Spain, France and the UK combined have a lower rate than the USA and have no death penalty.

cometogether

jwkbyrne wrote: »

The prisons r overcrowded and like a holiday camp, wat r u on about keeping them in general population? And what gives u the right or any government the right to say certain things should live? This is my opinion? If u even understand that, all child molesters, rapists should die after yrs of pain,anybody who murders them first shouldn't die, they should get a free bus pass.

Surely the bolded statement is a contradiction? I'm pretty sure the UN Charter if Human Rights guarantees the right to life, but I'm sure you know better than that. As for the rest of your post, you're going to have to be a bit more coherent, because I don't understand a word of it.

Norwesterner

namloc1980 wrote: »

Canada has a substantially lower rate and has no death penalty. How do you square that one? Germany, Spain, France and the UK combined have a lower rate than the USA and have no death penalty.

It wasn't me who raised the correlation between the death penalty and homicide rates.
Someone mentioned the U.S and implied they had a homicide rate going through the roof, despite the death penalty. when it's actually around the global average.
Given it's gun ownership and rich-poor divide, I'd imagine they'd have a higher rate if they weren't as tough on crime.

namloc1980

Norwesterner wrote: »

Castration is used in several European countries including Germany and the UK.
Time we had it in Ireland too.

To be clear it's not available in the uk or Germany as a punishment. Convicted offenders can apply for it voluntarily only.

namloc1980

Norwesterner wrote: »

It wasn't me who raised the correlation between the death penalty and homicide rates.
Someone mentioned the U.S and implied they had a homicide rate going through the roof, despite the death penalty. when it's actually around the global average.
Given it's gun ownership and rich-poor divide, I'd imagine they'd have a higher rate if they weren't as tough on crime.

They do have a higher rate than comparable countries such as western developed countries. Using averages brings places like Mexico and Colombia which have internal wars.

Norwesterner

namloc1980 wrote: »

To be clear it's not available in the uk or Germany as a punishment. Convicted offenders can apply for it voluntarily only.

It's used as a plea bargain and or part of early release.
A horrific serial rapist was released last week in Spain only after he agreed to castration.
Had he not agreed he'd have stayed in jail.
Sounds logical.

Jumboman

Their was a story in the papers recently about a english man living in cork who had being convicted of rape on 4 separate occasions.

Somebody like that is never going to change so why keep them alive ?


If we had the death penalty for sex offenders who reoffend it would dramatically reduce the number of sex crimes.

But the mary robinson brigade will want to defend the "human rights" of sex offenders.

Norwesterner

namloc1980 wrote: »

They do have a higher rate than comparable countries such as western developed countries. Using averages brings places like Mexico and Colombia which have internal wars.

Would Russia be a comparable country.
Both are developed, both in the G8, strong economies, and educated classes.
It's more than double the U.S homicide.

namloc1980

Norwesterner wrote: »

Would Russia be a comparable country.
Both are developed, both in the G8, strong economies, and educated classes.
It's more than double the U.S homicide.

Russia still has it on its statute books but it hasn't been used since 1996. Also Russia has numerous separatist regions where crime is significantly higher than the norm. The USA doesn't have that.

epluribusunum

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I would but only in circumstances where it would be appropriate and if the sentence was carried out quickly (within 12 months). I think the death penalty for some crimes is necessary, eg, premeditated murder, serial rape, child abuse. Who agrees with me?

I support it.

If monsters like the Boston Bombers did that horrible act in Dublin to kill one of my loved ones I would dismiss their right to live. I would rather have them dead than have them living in a prison for the rest of their life on the dime of the tax payers.

I also find it funny how many people support abortion and point out that it "decreases potential crime" from someone who never had the choice to exist, but yet many of those same people say that when an adult commits a terrible act they somehow have the right to live. That has always puzzled me.

namloc1980

Jumboman wrote: »

Their was a story in the papers recently about a english man living in cork who had being convicted of rape on 4 separate occasions.

Somebody like that is never going to change so why keep them alive ?


If we had the death penalty for sex offenders who reoffend it would dramatically reduce the number of sex crimes.

But the mary robinson brigade will want to defend the "human rights" of sex offenders.

Where do you stop? If you have it for rape surely you should have it for armed robbery, repeat burglars etc. And you are also assuming like all pro death penslty advocates that because someone is opposed to the death penalty they are automatically soft on crime. Nonsense.

namloc1980

epluribusunum wrote: »

I support it.

If monsters like the Boston Bombers did that horrible act in Dublin to kill one of my loved ones I would dismiss their right to live. I would rather have them dead than have them living in a prison for the rest of their life on the dime of the tax payers.

Thankfully we don't let victims decide justice and punishment.

epluribusunum

namloc1980 wrote: »

Thankfully we don't let victims decide justice and punishment.

That did not refute anything I said, but okay?

By the way the USA does have separate regions where crime is exceptionally higher than the average. They're called Cleveland, Chicago, D.C. just to name a few.

namloc1980

epluribusunum wrote: »

That did not refute anything I said, but okay?

By the way the USA does have separate regions where crime is exceptionally higher than the average. They're called Cleveland, Chicago, D.C. just to name a few.

I said separatist, not separate. You know like Chechnya, Ingushetia, Dagestan etc.

old hippy

epluribusunum wrote: »

I support it.

If monsters like the Boston Bombers did that horrible act in Dublin to kill one of my loved ones I would dismiss their right to live. I would rather have them dead than have them living in a prison for the rest of their life on the dime of the tax payers.

I also find it funny how many people support abortion and point out that it "decreases potential crime" from someone who never had the choice to exist, but yet many of those same people say that when an adult commits a terrible act they somehow have the right to live. That has always puzzled me.

Adult = sentient human being. Foetus = clump of cells.

Death penalty = state sanctioned murder. Abortion = medical procedure.

The death penalty is barbaric and is not justice - it's old testament style vengeance.

epluribusunum

namloc1980 wrote: »

I said separatist, not separate. You know like Chechnya, Ingushetia, Dagestan etc.

Right, but how does that change the magnitude of a crime?

You were saying that there are separatist regions, and that the USA does not have that. Yes, that may be true but you then went ahead and said that the US does not have certain areas of higher crime rate than other certain regions in the US and that Russia does. That is not true. American inner cities are much more violent that the average American suburb. What is the importance of a separatist region? Just because there is a different political history, it does not really mean anything in terms of a heinous act. A murder in Dagestan is the same as a murder in NYC, is it not?

Gatling

namloc1980 wrote: »

Would you happy to leave the EU and rescind the European Convention on Human Rights to bring it back? It also isn't a deterrent to crime. It reduces society to the same level as the criminal and it's irreversible in the case of a mistake (which do happen). Also where were all you pro death people in 2001?

Absolutely

The British have the right get out and have your own bill that doesn't favour the scum

epluribusunum

old hippy wrote: »

Adult = sentient human being. Foetus = clump of cells.

Death penalty = state sanctioned murder. Abortion = medical procedure.

The death penalty is barbaric and is not justice - it's old testament style vengeance.

1) An adult is also a "clump of cells."
2) Lethal injection is also a medical procedure.
3) Completely subjective, not really any logic used.

old hippy

epluribusunum wrote: »

A murder in Dagestan is the same as a murder in NYC, is it not?

Yes but maybe for different reasons. There's opportunistic murders, spur of the moment, wilful, state murder, political, religious and so on.

None justified.

namloc1980

Gatling wrote: »

Absolutely

The British have the right get out and have your own bill that doesn't favour the scum

It is also abolished in the UK as they are members of the EU and the ECHR.

epluribusunum

old hippy wrote: »

Adult = sentient human being. Foetus = clump of cells.

Death penalty = state sanctioned murder. Abortion = medical procedure.

The death penalty is barbaric and is not justice - it's old testament style vengeance.

1) An adult is also a "clump of cells."
2) Lethal injection is also a medical procedure.
3) Completely subjective, not really any logic used.

Furthermore, I like how you used the word "sentient." Good choice. Sentient: Able to perceive or feel things.

If an adult is a "sentient" human being, than shouldn't they be able to understand the consequences of their awful acts? If the Boston bombers were so "sentient" than how come they walked along a crowded group of people, looked them in the eye, knowingly dropped 2 bombs, and then watched people fear for their lives?

If they are sentient than that means they knowingly did that and were able to know how their acts would make others feel. So you believe that the kid deserves to live the rest of his life in prison feeding off the tax payer money- the same people he tried to destroy?

But yet, a "clump of cells" -which we are also by the way, let's not forget that- is justifiably murdered? Huh, doesn't make sense to me.

Norwesterner

Norwesterner wrote: »

It wasn't me who raised the correlation between the death penalty and homicide rates.
Someone mentioned the U.S and implied they had a homicide rate going through the roof, despite the death penalty. when it's actually around the global average.
Given it's gun ownership and rich-poor divide, I'd imagine they'd have a higher rate if they weren't as tough on crime.

No.

Some mentioned the U.S and showed that states without capital punishment had a lower murder rate, than states with capital punishment.

It wasn't a difficult post to comprehend.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Hitchens wrote: »

Everyone I've spoken to about it (all ordinary law abiding folk, not the PC Brigade and tree-huggers that infest internet forums) would vote for the death penalty in a referendum!

What, three women and a cat down the pub? Hardly represetative.

All sides of the political spectum would unite in urging people to vote no because they know it would be economic suicide. And not just because we'll be kicked out of the EU.

worded

Would it be better to reintroduce it and give the person on death row a choice?


Leave a lethal injection in their cell but play pat Kenny on speakers outside the cell on repeat 24/7

That way society is absolved from the inevitable

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

jwkbyrne wrote: »

We'll let's hope u and yrs r never a victim????

I'm changing my position. Death to people who use txtspk.

worded

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I'm changing my position. Death to people who use txtspk.

+1

Or a TLA

namloc1980

jwkbyrne wrote: »

We'll let's hope u and yrs r never a victim????

What????

Hitchens

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I'm changing my position.

yeah, try it standing up for a change

Artful_Badger

Haven't read the entire thread, so before ya bother I dont care whats been gone over already. Death penalty should be reintroduced for repeat offenders. Such people have no place in society.

jwkbyrne

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I'm changing my position. Death to people who use txtspk.

You know what, u really are a pain in the ass princess, , im on a phone and the dictionary annoys me,and I find it amazing that somebody who says they can speak fluent Irish, can be such an idiot.oh and if you must know im blind in one eye, smartass, will I translate that to Irish for you.

Mod: Banned

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

jwkbyrne wrote: »

You know what, u really are a pain in the ass princess, , im on a phone and the dictionary annoys me,and I find it amazing that somebody who says they can speak fluent Irish, can be such an idiot.oh and if you must know im blind in one eye, smartass, will I translate that to Irish for you.

Seriously. It's a pain in the ass to read and comes across as massively disrespectful. You couldn't be bothered writing it, yet you expect people to read it. Still, apologies if I hae offended.

Regarding the bit in bold: ????

Gatling

What just happened

Txt peak and os gailge

Artful_Badger

Gatling wrote: »

What just happened

Txt peak and os gailge

Txt fkl.

end of the road

jwkbyrne wrote: »

As far as im concerned anybody who thinks there shouldn't be a death penalty allows these monsters to live amongst us, sum people r not human and deserve to die, and I know it was England, but im just using that as an example.

your post doesn't make sense, just a load of sensationalist crap, stop reading gutter trash rags

end of the road

jwkbyrne wrote: »

oh who knows they're politics? And who is thinking of themselves? I wldnt even say this is an Irish issue, is say bring it back worldwide, I Cldnt grantee a Hugh drop in rapes,,molestation, murder etc if it was back, think bout that before u get all PC, if sumthing happened too ur famiy wld u not want revenge? Is say ur a kid with his head up his r her ass without one.

bringing something mythical like PC into the debate shows you have no argument, and the evidence proves that rapes murders and so on won't drop with the death penalty, so wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong

jwkbyrne

jwkbyrne wrote: »

Its people like you who don't make any sense,what makes you think I read trash mags? I would be pretty sure I have at least twenty times your so called intellect, do you actually have an opinion on the subject?

OMG! ur soo smrt! Im totes convinced!

Gordon Gecko

No, I think the death penalty is fundamentally wrong. Even though I find myself agreeing with it whenever I read of a particularly heinous crime, on a basic moral level I cannot justify taking a life. That said I think criminal justice in this country is in dire need of reform given that all prisoners are allowed to apply for parole after serving 7 years, whereas in the UK a judge can set a minimum term before the prisoner is even entitled to make an application for remission (such as the 30 year minimums handed out to the parents who starved their child to death recently).

Norwesterner

Deleted User wrote: »

No.

Some mentioned the U.S and showed that states without capital punishment had a lower murder rate, than states with capital punishment.

It wasn't a difficult post to comprehend.

Oh, but i did understand.
Unfortunately that argument swings both ways.

end of the road

jwkbyrne wrote: »

do you actually have an opinion on the subject?

yes, i've given it all through the thread, read it from start to finish

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

[QUOTE=jwkbyrne;85840925]Its people like you who don't make any sense,what makes you think I read trash mags? I would be pretty sure I have at least twenty times your so called intellect, do you actually have an opinion on the subject?[/QUOTE]

Probably the txtspk again. Or the blood thirsty desire for vengance. They're dead giveaways.

Anyway - you said you couldn't guarantee that it would reduce crime, so what would be the point in having it then? Justice and revenge are not the same thing.

illuminated

No,killing a murderer is just being hypocritical.I think life should Mean life thou

Norwesterner

tolaneil wrote: »

No,killing a murderer is just being hypocritical.I think life should Mean life thou

Do you object to War also?

Gatling

tolaneil wrote: »

No,killing a murderer is just being hypocritical.I think life should Mean life thou

So the punishment should be life take into account remission = 1/3 reduction before even making it to the prison ,feeding 3/4 times a day ,clothed,and never having to worry about having to lift a finger ever ,
Sounds pretty cushy actually,

If your willing to take a life you should be willing to to accept your life been taken as punishment

Norwesterner

Gatling wrote: »

So the punishment should be life take into account remission = 1/3 reduction before even making it to the prison ,feeding 3/4 times a day ,clothed,and never having to worry about having to lift a finger ever ,
Sounds pretty cushy actually,

If your willing to take a life you should be willing to to accept your life been taken as punishment

I agree but with the caveat that not all killings deserve the death penalty.
Some are in the heat of the moment and are unplanned. Others like killing an intruder etc.
I'm talking about the serial killers, the abductors, the sex- cases etc.