Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

Absolutely not.

jamo2oo9

Death Penalty should exist to those who commit any of the crimes listed -

-Murder of a Garda, soldier or someone in the Dail/Government (Capital Punishment)
-Repeated Rape
-Serial killers
-Terrorists (any group that operates in the Republic)

bumper234

looking_around wrote: »

You cant say that.
If that were the case, no one would commit suicide.

__
Like I've said before, hard physical work for those in prison, but no death penalty, too much risk of innocent people being wrongly convicted.

Surprisingly very few murderers commit suicide:rolleyes:

Vito Corleone wrote: »

No, speak for yourself bumper.

Are you suicidal?

Vito Corleone

cournioni wrote: »

40 years that Irish tax payers will have to foot the bill for, all to keep a roof over a murderers/whatever else head.

That's the only logical reason for the death penalty imo, some people think it will save a lot of money. However, according to a number of sites I've been on the cost of each death penalty case is significantly more than the costs of imprisoning someone for 40 years.

**Vai**

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

How many innocent people have died here and abroad only for it to be found they were clearly innocent of their 'crime' years later?

How many had exactly the opposite happen? I dont know obviously. I do know that has nothing to do with the death penalty, its because of the justice system and its failings.

TheFOB

Vito Corleone wrote: »

That's the only logical reason for the death penalty imo, some people think it will save a lot of money. However, according to a number of sites I've been on it states that the cost of each death penalty case is significantly more than the costs of imprisoning someone for 40 years.

You cannot put a price on revenge and justice.

Chloe29

No- I still believe there are some cases where innocent people are locked up. I think the best form of punishment is life behind bars-our prisons are too nice here- especially for women. The biggest things that need to change is sentencing and prisons. Less rights for prisoners and tougher longer sentences in my opinion are necessary.

Boardnashea

No

jobeenfitz

Maybe cut their hands off. Be hard to re-offend.

TheFOB

Vito Corleone wrote: »

Well, like I said earlier. I don't think there is much justice in instant death. It's too easy.

Keep them locked up for 23hrs a day min for 30-40yrs then kill them. Drum it home to them that they will never get out.

Cork24

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No.

Death is too kind for some crimes.

So are our Prisons

frank reynolds

blackwhite wrote: »

Life sentences which actually do what they say on the tin are what's needed.

I could only ever support the death penalty if there was an infallible justice system.

The idea that a wrongly convicted person could be executed is enough for me to feel the death penalty wouldn't work.

but then, why not introduce measures, such as the Death penalty for those who wrongly accuse/sentence someone to the death penalty? that should make sure they are 100% acurate with it each time.

ie: kill them without finding out they are 100% guilty of the crime, then you must also get the death penalty.

i think even if it was introduced and not used, would be enough to make sure the scummers would be a bit more "ok hang on a second here"...

Cork24

Do what they do in China bring you out into a Field shoot you in the head and bill your family for the bullet..

Handy way of making more money for the State, Charge 10,000 per Bullet,

Once in a while its deem necessary to have to shoot someone twice..

Hitchens

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

YES. anyone who refers to money as "moolah" should put up against a wall.

also anyone who refers to "moolah" as 'mulla' :pac:

Dostoevsky

No, the death penalty makes remarkably little sense, even as punishment. The following is one of Dostoevsky's finest pieces [from Prince Myshkin in The Idiot (1868)], made much more poignant because Dostoevsky himself had been sentenced to death in 1848 and underwent what turned out (unknown to him beforehand) to be a mock execution so he knew what he was talking about when he wrote about the thoughts of the condemned man:

Dostoyevsky on capital punishment

'... And I may tell you—believe it or not, as you like—that when that man stepped upon the scaffold he CRIED, he did indeed,—he was as white as a bit of paper. Isn’t it a dreadful idea that he should have cried —cried! Whoever heard of a grown man crying from fear—not a child, but a man who never had cried before—a grown man of forty-five years. Imagine what must have been going on in that man’s mind at such a moment; what dreadful convulsions his whole spirit must have endured; it is an outrage on the soul that’s what it is. Because it is said ‘thou shalt not kill,’ is he to be killed because he murdered some one else? No, it is not right, it’s an impossible theory. I assure you, I saw the sight a month ago and it’s dancing before my eyes to this moment. I dream of it, often....'

jobeenfitz

Dostoevsky wrote: »

No, the death penalty makes remarkably little sense, even as punishment. The following is one of Dostoevsky's finest pieces [from Prince Myshkin in The Idiot (1868)], made much more poignant because Dostoevsky himself had been sentenced to death in 1848 and underwent what turned out (unknown to him beforehand) to be a mock execution so he knew what he was talking about when he wrote about the thoughts of the condemned man:

Dostoyevsky on capital punishment

'... And I may tell you—believe it or not, as you like—that when that man stepped upon the scaffold he CRIED, he did indeed,—he was as white as a bit of paper. Isn’t it a dreadful idea that he should have cried —cried! Whoever heard of a grown man crying from fear—not a child, but a man who never had cried before—a grown man of forty-five years. Imagine what must have been going on in that man’s mind at such a moment; what dreadful convulsions his whole spirit must have endured; it is an outrage on the soul that’s what it is. Because it is said ‘thou shalt not kill,’ is he to be killed because he murdered some one else? No, it is not right, it’s an impossible theory. I assure you, I saw the sight a month ago and it’s dancing before my eyes to this moment. I dream of it, often....'

The death penalty may make little sense but you can't argue that it leaves little chance of re-offending?

pheno

Yes, idiots like the guy who killed a mother and a daughter recently need to die. The Irish prison system and sentencing is too kind. People who commit these kind of crimes must either never see freedom or die. Death preferably.

theUbiq

Yes; for bankers that waste 30 billion of our money.

Dostoevsky

Uberbeamerman wrote: »

What I would like to see though, are meaningful sentences....

In America, Bernie Madoff got sent down for 150 years for stealing 50 billion
In Ireland, we give the wa

Ahem.

dark crystal

Death penalty, no. Life meaning life, yes. Too many dangerous criminals being released when they have no place in a civil society.

alchemist33

jobeenfitz wrote: »

The death penalty may make little sense but you can't argue that it leaves little chance of re-offending?

Or getting compensation when they find out you were innocent after all?

Holsten

No, death sentence is stupid as hell.

I don't want the death penalty, under any circumstances. What I want is decent prison sentences, and some real effort put into rehabilitation and no early release. What I don't want is a society that kills people for killing people. I don't want a State that considers killing an appropriate response to any problem, and I certainly don't want the State that represents me to kill people on my behalf. Two wrongs have never, ever, made a right.

And what of the wrongful convictions? What do you say to the family of the miscarriage of justice who's loved one was killed on our behalf? Did killing them give life back to their alleged victim anyway? Of some of the more sadistic suggestions here, perhaps someone could explain how you could reunite a wrongfully convicted rapist with his testicles?

As far as the deterrence of the death penalty goes, it doesn't work, it's widely known not to work, and law enforcement officers rate it very far down the scale in terms of what they feel makes their society safer.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/law-enforcement-views-deterrence#lawenforcement

Facts, not emotions.

Meaningful sentencing and rehabilitation. Death penalty, never.

Corkfeen

cournioni wrote: »

40 years that Irish tax payers will have to foot the bill for, all to keep a roof over a murderers/whatever else head.

The death penalty costs more.... Unless you want to abandon appeals processes etc.

MissD93

I don't support the death penalty but would be in favor of stronger/longer mandatory sentences with mandatory participation in rehabilation programs, its a pure joke reading the news papers and websites week and after week only to see rapists being let of with a suspended sentence, very little time in prison or worse serial offenders who've been convicted several times for similar crimes being released only to offend again.

Holsten

Longer sentences don't do anything.

Longer/Mandatory sentencing is no answer to criminals.

TheFOB

Candie wrote: »

As far as the deterrence of the death penalty goes, it doesn't work, it's widely known not to work, and law enforcement officers rate it very far down the scale in terms of what they feel makes their society safer.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/law-enforcement-views-deterrence#lawenforcement

Facts, not emotions.

Meaningful sentencing and rehabilitation. Death penalty, never.

I don't give a **** if it's less of a deterrent or how much it costs. If the victim or victims family request the death penalty then march off to the gallows.

Hagar the Nice.

**Vai** wrote: »

How many had exactly the opposite happen? I dont know obviously. I do know that has nothing to do with the death penalty, its because of the justice system and its failings.

Well a couple of days ago Texas executed its 500 th prisoner.
Among the 500 put to death by Texas since the state resumed the death penalty in 1982 were three people who were in all probability innocent. Carlos DeLuna was executed in 1989 having been mistaken for another Carlos; Ruben Cantu was sent to the death chamber in 1993 largely on eyewitness testimony from a co-defendant and a shooting survivor, both of whom later recanted; and Cameron Todd Willingham was put to death in 2004 for starting a fire that killed his three children based on forensic evidence that later turned out to be seriously unreliable.
That's only the tip of the iceberg,how would YOU feel if you were totally innocent of a crime and knew you'd be meeting your maker,think about it.

Outkast_IRE

Zero tolerance / three strikes rule please.

Make prison a undesirable fate, by cutting out the sky TV and make them wear a uniform etc. I have no problem with prisioners having the basics, but that's it and no more.

TheFOB

TheFOB wrote: »

I don't give a **** if it's less of a deterrent or how much it costs. If the victim or victims family request the death penalty then march off to the gallows.

And that sort of irrational knee-jerkery is precisely the reason why families should never have a say in sentencing, because they cannot possibly be objective.

Thankfully you are unlikely to be pre-eminent in the cause to bring the death penalty to Ireland with arguments like that.

Holsten

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Zero tolerance / three strikes rule please.

Make prison a undesirable fate, by cutting out the sky TV and make them wear a uniform etc. I have no problem with prisoners having the basics, but that's it and no more.

Three strikes rule is a joke, e.g... arrested once for marijuana, again for stealing a.. bike? And then again for weed... 3 strikes, life imprisonment. Joke!

Prison is there to administer the punishment of losing your freedom to do what you want, that's it. Having "the basics" is useless.

TheFOB

Holsten wrote: »

Three strikes rule is a joke, e.g... arrested once for marijuana, again for stealing a.. bike? And then again for weed... 3 strikes, life imprisonment. Joke!

Prison is there to administer the punishment of losing your freedom to do what you want, that's it. Having "the basics" is useless.

That's not how it works, it's three violent crimes.

pheno

Candie wrote: »

And that sort of irrational knee-jerkery is precisely the reason why families should never have a say in sentencing, because they cannot possibly be objective.

Thankfully you are unlikely to be pre-eminent in the cause to bring the death penalty to Ireland with arguments like that.

Why should a person who has killed someones family member walk this earth? How is that fair. They should DIE.

pheno

pheno wrote: »

Why should a person who has killed someones family member walk this earth? How is that fair. They should DIE.

And what if the court is wrong? Should that persons family get to send to original family to the death chamber for killing their family member? How many deaths cancel one another out?

A0

Without a doubt... and prisoners should work a few hours each day to generate energy for schools and hospitals, for example. Not watch TV and fat up.

emmabrighton

I think the death penalty is a cop out... I think there has to be better ways of punishing perpetrators of despicable crimes. Off hand, and its been mentioned earlier but I would advocate actual castration for pedophiles and rapists. I think it is a complete joke that chemical castration actually exists at all and someone would have to explain that to me. So what if the chemicals stop them getting the urge to commit the crime. That's not enough in my opinion, they should be punished as well. Also, the crime they committed should be tattooed on their forehead. Then, they must serve their sentence in the general population of the prison, not squirreled away with other pedo's. Then there should be a page in the national newspaper listing the upcoming release dates for prisoners and their crimes.

Holsten

TheFOB wrote: »

That's not how it works, it's three violent crimes.

"In 1996, Issac Ramirez stole a VCR, worth $199, from a Sears in Los Angeles, CA. Walking out of the store in daylight, he was promptly caught and arrested. Having previously been convicted of two previous shoplifting related robberies, this offense was Ramirez's third strike, and he was sentenced to a prison term of 25 years to life"

Just an example.

In your view this man should be in prison for the rest of his life?!?!?!?!

Me_Grapes

That dotevesky (sp?) extract was nauseating. Are we supposed to feel SYMPATHY to a murdering psychopath because he's crying? Bollocks that!!

I'm against the death penalty because of the imperfect justice system, but **** me there are a lot of thug huggers out there.

I have no problem saying that there is nothing wrongwith putting a murderer down like a dog.

TheFOB

emmabrighton wrote: »

I think the death penalty is a cop out... I think there has to be better ways of punishing perpetrators of despicable crimes. Off hand, and its been mentioned earlier but I would advocate actual castration for pedophiles and rapists. I think it is a complete joke that chemical castration actually exists at all and someone would have to explain that to me. So what if the chemicals stop them getting the urge to commit the crime. That's not enough in my opinion, they should be punished as well. Also, the crime they committed should be tattooed on their forehead. Then, they must serve their sentence in the general population of the prison, not squirreled away with other pedo's. Then there should be a page in the national newspaper listing the upcoming release dates for prisoners and their crimes.

Yes we should have a public sex offender list. Rapists should get a minimum of 15years AND castration. Manslaughter 20 years minimum. Murder life/death penalty. All sentences in locked down cells where you have to slop out.

Hitchens

when we had the death penalty here - and carried it through - there were very few murders committed

crazygeryy

Dostoevsky wrote: »

No, the death penalty makes remarkably little sense, even as punishment. The following is one of Dostoevsky's finest pieces [from Prince Myshkin in The Idiot (1868)], made much more poignant because Dostoevsky himself had been sentenced to death in 1848 and underwent what turned out (unknown to him beforehand) to be a mock execution so he knew what he was talking about when he wrote about the thoughts of the condemned man:

Dostoyevsky on capital punishment

'... And I may tell you—believe it or not, as you like—that when that man stepped upon the scaffold he CRIED, he did indeed,—he was as white as a bit of paper. Isn’t it a dreadful idea that he should have cried —cried! Whoever heard of a grown man crying from fear—not a child, but a man who never had cried before—a grown man of forty-five years. Imagine what must have been going on in that man’s mind at such a moment; what dreadful convulsions his whole spirit must have endured; it is an outrage on the soul that’s what it is. Because it is said ‘thou shalt not kill,’ is he to be killed because he murdered some one else? No, it is not right, it’s an impossible theory. I assure you, I saw the sight a month ago and it’s dancing before my eyes to this moment. I dream of it, often....'

read that heap of crap to the mother and daughter who were brutally murdered last week in kilorglin.im sure it would make it all better.
yes bring back the death penalty particularly for cases like that.
how can it not be good you get rid of murderers and rapists whofor the most part clearly cannot be rehabilitated.
and by the way that quote was from 1868 what the hell did dostoevsky know about all the maniacs that are running around today. **** all.

Cody Pomeray

Hitchens wrote: »

when we had the death penalty here - and carried it through - there were very few murders committed

Do you have a link for that?

Murder and manslaughter in the famine era was almost double what it was in the early 21st century
http://books.google.ie/books?id=U-zAOTg22O4C&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=violence+in+europe+ian+o%27donnell&source=bl&ots=tt-Qk--_X6&sig=V6q5AHgSLWyBJyBYjwPgA-Ay13Y&hl=en&ei=RYHUS9OxNZT5-AbtlNGaDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=violence%20in%20europe%20ian%20o'donnell&f=false

chart:
http://omg.wthax.org/6XhLUP.png

NegativeCreep

No. And definitely not for rape. The amount of times people are wrongly accused of rape is sickening. I think there'd be too great of a risk of someone innocent being put to death.

TheFOB

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Do you have a link for that?

Murder and manslaughter in the famine era was almost double what it was in the early 21st century
http://books.google.ie/books?id=U-zAOTg22O4C&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=violence+in+europe+ian+o%27donnell&source=bl&ots=tt-Qk--_X6&sig=V6q5AHgSLWyBJyBYjwPgA-Ay13Y&hl=en&ei=RYHUS9OxNZT5-AbtlNGaDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=violence%20in%20europe%20ian%20o'donnell&f=false

http://www.crimecouncil.gov.ie/statistics_cri_crime_murder.html

The last execution was carried out in 1954.

Cody Pomeray

TheFOB wrote: »

http://www.crimecouncil.gov.ie/statistics_cri_crime_murder.html

The last execution was carried out in 1954.

You must be having a laugh...

I have provided evidence going back to the 19th century, which suggests a pretty enormous homicide rate compared to today.

http://omg.wthax.org/6XhLUP.png

TheFOB

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

You must be having a laugh...

I have provided evidence going back to the 19th century, which suggests a pretty enormous homicide rate compared to today.

Your link dosn't really make sense and I'm not crawling through a online book looking for what your getting at.

Cody Pomeray

TheFOB wrote: »

Your link dosn't really make sense and I'm not crawling through a online book looking for what your getting at.

I have included a chart to clarify things.

The chapter on Ireland is pretty short, if you enter Ireland into the search box. It explains the factors why crime was low in the 1950s... doesn't suggest any relationship with the death penalty.

Overall, homicidal crime was higher in Ireland when the death penalty existed.

TheFOB

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

You must be having a laugh...

I have provided evidence going back to the 19th century, which suggests a pretty enormous homicide rate compared to today.

http://omg.wthax.org/6XhLUP.png

You could argue that the police in Ireland in the 19th century were like the RUC of it's day, really just maintaining the British rule and did not have the trust of the people. How many crimes were actually solved back then, did people literally get away with murder??

washman3

The 'top brass' at Anglo Irish Bank would almost certainly face the death penalty, if they acted as they did here. in a country like China.
How many here would agree with that.? i would for one.!!

Or put another way, would they act as they did if they knew the consequences would be a death penalty?
Just think about it.!!

Me_Grapes

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I have included a chart to clarify things.

The chapter on Ireland is pretty short, if you enter Ireland into the search box. It explains the factors why crime was low in the 1950s... doesn't suggest any relationship with the death penalty.

Overall, homicidal crime was higher in Ireland when the death penalty existed.

So what you're saying is homicidal crime was higher in Ireland during times of penal law, uprisings and civil war?

What I'd be interested in is the statistics since the formation of the free state in 1937.