Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

Cody Pomeray

old hippy wrote: »

Ok, this is really off topic but much as I loathe Blair and Bush, they haven't massacred their own people. They didn't blow up a plane over Lockerbie or supply arms to the IRA.

Why do the passports matter?

I never understand this outrage at "killing your own people". I'd just as soon be killed by Colonel Gadaffi as by Michael D Higgins. What does it matter to a corpse who did him in? It's all the same to the dead; they're no less dead.

Jumboman

Piliger wrote: »

They were heros. I and my son knew two lads in uni in Dublin, who went back to fight Gaddafi and win freedom for the country. Had never held a gun before but they went and fought on the ground. They came back briefly last year and there was a huge party. They are now back in Libya working to make it an even better place. Amazing heroic guys.

They were working for american and western interests.

Do you really think america and its allies care about "freedom" or that libya is now a better place ?

old hippy

Jumboman wrote: »

Those guys were most likely Libyan traitors or political opponents who supported the NATO invasion of their country.

Also if you read Gaddafis green book he supports freedom of speech for the individual.

This has gone way off topic - any fool in the street knows exactly what kind of opportunist loon Gadaffi was. Did he deserve to die? Nope but I would have liked to see him tried for crimes against humanity. Ditto for the lickspittles who kept him in power. Tony Blair must take the blame too, for extending the hand of friendship to him.

old hippy

Jumboman wrote: »

They were working for american and western interests.

Do you really think america and its allies care about "freedom" or that libya is now a better place ?

Is this really the place for anti-American bias, though?

Jumboman

old hippy wrote: »

This has gone way off topic - any fool in the street knows exactly what kind of opportunist loon Gadaffi was. Did he deserve to die? Nope but I would have liked to see him tried for crimes against humanity. Ditto for the lickspittles who kept him in power. Tony Blair must take the blame too, for extending the hand of friendship to him.

Gadaffi may have been a bit mad but he did do a lot for his people.

In this video all the people in the street seem to have loved him.

end of the road

Jumboman wrote: »

Do you really think america and its allies care about "freedom"

no i don't, all these wars are about installing american puppett governments in place of in some cases governments who were elected by the people, however when these governments no longer want to play ball the americans make up stuff as an excuse to then go in and overthrow them, i've no doubt that many of the governments in these countries are governments i wouldn't particularly like to live under though and do infact brutalise their people

old hippy

Jumboman wrote: »

Gadaffi may have been a bit mad but he did do a lot for his people.

In this video all the people in the street seem to have loved him.

And meanwhile in North Korea, the people appear to love the latest Kim incumbent. How this relates to the death penalty in Ireland, I'm not quite sure...

old hippy

old hippy wrote: »

How this relates to the death penalty in Ireland, I'm not quite sure...

It doesn't.

old hippy

Jumboman wrote: »

As for Saddam "killing his own people" you are repeating american propaganda that line has been throttled out a million times.

You believe Saddam and Gaddafi are bad people because the media told you so.

As a former journalist, I can tell you I certainly don't believe all I hear in the media.

That said, I'm equally dubious of people who dismiss dictators on the basis that America is worse.

old hippy

Candie wrote: »

It doesn't.

Indeed. That's my point. I don't see how any dictator mentioned on this thread has a bearing on the subject

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Jumboman wrote: »

So would you trust a "reformed" Paedophile around children ?

Can you reask that in the onctext of my argument? Because I don't see any link between it and what you wrote.

Jumboman wrote: »

They were traitors by any definition they aided and abetted the NATO bombing of their country which has lead to the death of tens of thousands of people.

I dont know if they were free to speak out publicly but the offical policy allowed free speech for "the individual".

You are only getting one side of the story if these guys were working for foreign governments and trying to stir up trouble in order to install a western puppet government then I do not have much sympathy for them.

Libya like Iraq was a much better place before they were invaded.

Again, where are you getting your information if not from the media?

dfx-

With respect to the question in the title:

Yes, very much so. And voted to keep it.

Jumboman

old hippy wrote: »

Indeed. That's my point. I don't see how any dictator mentioned on this thread has a bearing on the subject

Gaddafi and saddam were used as bogeymen in debate I wouldnt execute them just because america claims they are bad people. But I would support the death penalty for george bush and tony blair.

Piliger

Jumboman wrote: »

Gaddafi and saddam were used as bogeymen in debate I wouldnt execute them just because america claims they are bad people. But I would support the death penalty for george bush and tony blair.

Which says everything that needs to be said about the strength of your argument and morality.

Jumboman

Piliger wrote: »

Which says everything that needs to be said about the strength of your argument and morality.

I dont believe in invading other peoples countries does that make me a bad person ?

Love2u

Jumboman wrote: »

He had counselling but it didnt help him I think the only "counselling" he needs is to be able to beat the **** of the abuser. His abuser is still walking around without a care in the world.

Maybe he needs to continue the counselling. "Beating the **** out of the abuser" would prove or achieve nothing. I'm doubting the abuser is walking around "without a care in the world". Did you ever question what went so badly wrong in the Abusers life for them to become an abuser!? Might the abuser have been a victim himself of an abuser. As I said previously I wish your friend well and I hope he will heal but violence or death penalty does not help the situation and its not sending out a good message.

Jumboman

Love2u wrote: »

Maybe he needs to continue the counselling. "Beating the **** out of the abuser" would prove or achieve nothing. I'm doubting the abuser is walking around "without a care in the world". Did you ever question what went so badly wrong in the Abusers life for them to become an abuser!? Might the abuser have been a victim himself of an abuser. As I said previously I wish your friend well and I hope he will heal but violence or death penalty does not help the situation and its not sending out a good message.

So your saying a child molester is a "victim" ? I've heard it all now.

The death penalty would stop the abuser ever abusing anyone else it would also send out the message that we have zero tolerance for child abuse.

Piliger

Jumboman wrote: »

I dont believe in invading other peoples countries does that make me a bad person ?

Yes.

Love2u

Jumboman wrote: »

So your saying a child molester is a "victim" ? I've heard it all now.

The death penalty would stop the abuser ever abusing anyone else it would also send out the message that we have zero tolerance for child abuse.

You used the word "victim", don't put words in posters mouths. Do you honestly think that the death penalty would stop Abusers from becoming Abusers? That's not how it works. You have so much anger inside you, I recommend you get counselling too. Also can you try and stay on topic, this is all getting out of hand now.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Jumboman wrote: »

So your saying a child molester is a "victim" ? I've heard it all now.

The death penalty would stop the abuser ever abusing anyone else it would also send out the message that we have zero tolerance for child abuse.

the problems is that you are just stopping one child molester. You're doing absolutel nothing to solve the problem and condemning god knows how many future kids to the same fate from different hands.

Would you be comfortable with that?

Jumboman

Love2u wrote: »

You used the word "victim", don't put words in posters mouths. Do you honestly think that the death penalty would stop Abusers from becoming Abusers? That's not how it works. You have so much anger inside you, I recommend you get counselling too. Also can you try and stay on topic, this is all getting out of hand now.

I didnt put words in anyones mouth please read your pervious post.

Maybe he needs to continue the counselling. "Beating the **** out of the abuser" would prove or achieve nothing. I'm doubting the abuser is walking around "without a care in the world". Did you ever question what went so badly wrong in the Abusers life for them to become an abuser!? Might the abuser have been a victim himself of an abuser. As I said previously I wish your friend well and I hope he will heal but violence or death penalty does not help the situation and its not sending out a good message.

Jumboman

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

the problems is that you are just stopping one child molester. You're doing absolutel nothing to solve the problem and condemning god knows how many future kids to the same fate from different hands.

Would you be comfortable with that?

With that attitude we might aswell not lock up any criminals because crime will exist anyway.

Also how would putting down child abusers be "condemning other kids to the same fate" ? its common sense that if their are less child abusers around it will reduce the probability of other kids been abused.

Jumboman

Piliger wrote: »

Yes.

The Iraq war has cost the llves of hundreds of thousands of people and f**ked up their land with depleted uranium for future generations.

Yet I'm a bad person for not supporting this mass murder :rolleyes:

end of the road

Jumboman wrote: »

The Iraq war has cost the llves of hundreds of thousands of people and f**ked up their land with depleted uranium for future generations.

Yet I'm a bad person for not supporting this mass murder

NO YOUR NOT, I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH YOU IN RELATION TO IRAQ AND OTHER SIMILAR WARS

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Jumboman wrote: »

With that attitude we might aswell not lock up any criminals because crime will exist anyway.

Also how would putting down child abusers be "condemning other kids to the same fate" ? its common sense that if their are less child abusers around it will reduce the probability of other kids been abused.

Well, you're definteily putting words in my mouth here. When you begin sentences with "so you're saying..." and "with that attitude we might as well..." it's generally a good indication.

In this case, you're implying that I advised not punishing criminals, where as the words "not lock up" are written by you, not me.

Also, less child absuers does not neccesarily mean less child abuse. You might have a few serious offenders getting away with it spreading more and more abuse because you refuse to del with the problem. If each abuser was only abusing one child, you'd have a point, but this is highly unlikely to be the case.

old hippy

Jumboman wrote: »

With that attitude we might aswell not lock up any criminals because crime will exist anyway.

Also how would putting down child abusers be "condemning other kids to the same fate" ? its common sense that if their are less child abusers around it will reduce the probability of other kids been abused.

Putting down people? Dangerous language, that. :eek:

Amirani

Jumboman wrote: »

I dont believe in invading other peoples countries does that make me a bad person ?

Haha, some of your arguments are great. Ever hear of Kuwait?

Why does Saddam get off but not Bush?

Jumboman

NiallSparky wrote: »

Haha, some of your arguments are great. Ever hear of Kuwait?

Why does Saddam get off but not Bush?

That was a regional dispute. Its not the same as going half way around the world to invade a country that was never a threat to america.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Jumboman wrote: »

That was a regional dispute. Its not the same as going half way around the world to invade a country that was never a threat to america.

How do you know they did this?

Jumboman

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How do you know they did this?

Did what ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How do you know they did this?

Jumboman wrote: »

Did what ?

What you sid they did. See below:

Jumboman wrote: »

That was a regional dispute. Its not the same as going half way around the world to invade a country that was never a threat to america.

Love2u

Jumboman wrote: »

I didnt put words in anyones mouth please read your pervious post.

No, you read my previous posts. I see now your shifting the topic to wars........what next!......as the song goes "time to say goodbye".......

Jumboman

Jon Venables deserves the death penalty he has repeatedly proven that he is pure evil.

I wonder would the human rights brigade object to him living in their area.




http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/james-bulger-murderer-jon-venables-freed-from-prison-for-second-time-29548084.html
Jon Venables, one of the two killers of toddler James Bulger, has been freed from prison for a second time.

mattjack

For what offence should Jon Venables be executed for ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Jumboman wrote: »

Jon Venables deserves the death penalty he has repeatedly proven that he is pure evil.

I wonder would the human rights brigade object to him living in their area.




http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/james-bulger-murderer-jon-venables-freed-from-prison-for-second-time-29548084.html
Jon Venables, one of the two killers of toddler James Bulger, has been freed from prison for a second time.

I remember you as the guy who claimed that the media lies about the wars in iraq and Libya and that they should never be trusted. So how can we trust what they are saying here? About Venables, Bush, Qadaffi or anyone?

On a sidenote, for what crime should Venables be sentenced to death for?

Santa Cruz

uch wrote: »

Only for people who try skipping their Round

"try"

What would you recommend as punishment for those who actually succeed in skipping their round? Such a dastardly act merits immediate execution.

MRnotlob606

i would not support it because innocent people are bound to be killed

TireeTerror

I think its incredulous that so many think the death penalty is a suitable punishment for rape. I mean seriously, how could you even compare them? As bad as rape is, it certainly does not justify state killing. What principles are we basing this on to allow the state to take a human life?

If the death penalty was brought back, we would be sending out a clear message saying that under certain circumstances it is justified to take another persons life.

Many people have commented showing concern about people who were killed by the state and latterly proven to be innocent. I do not actually think this should be the main reason to refuse to allow its return. Of course it is a terrible thing for an innocent to be killed by the state, but depending on where your moral compass points, any killing, whether by a murderer or by the state, should be a crime. How can we educate people and try and teach them moral values, explaining to people the value of human life only to contradict ourselves when it suits us.

I'm sure many of you, like myself, have seen some videos online showing baying crowds of people beating or hacking other people to death. Usually they have been suspected of child abuse or rape, or perhaps even something as minor as stealing. The manner in which it turns into a frenzy is terrifying. Most of these videos I have had the misfortune of witnessing have been in an African country. Every time I've seen one I've had a chill run through me and it makes me question just how cruel the human race can be.

Even in our Western society the threads of moral fibre are very fragile. Its easy to think we are so advanced in comparison, yet only last night I read an article about a man who was apparently tortured, stripped naked, put into a wheelie bin which was taped shut and wedged against a tree and hidden in the undergrowth. Were it not far a dog discovering him, he would almost certainly have died. This was in Northern Ireland.

It is never easy to find an appropriate punishment for heinous crimes. We cannot condone killing another human or any physical punishment. To kill another will not punish them, the dead cannot feel nor learn from their mistakes. Whatever the cost to the taxpayer, we must be the better people and lead by example.

Jumboman

mattjack wrote: »

For what offence should Jon Venables be executed for ?

Hes a sadistic paedophile child killer. Do you really think he has anything positive to contribute to society ? Keeping him alive is a waste of tax payers money.

Jumboman

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I remember you as the guy who claimed that the media lies about the wars in iraq and Libya and that they should never be trusted. So how can we trust what they are saying here? About Venables, Bush, Qadaffi or anyone?

On a sidenote, for what crime should Venables be sentenced to death for?

I dont see anyone claiming Venables is innocent.

Amirani

TireeTerror wrote: »

I think its incredulous that so many think the death penalty is a suitable punishment for rape. I mean seriously, how could you even compare them? As bad as rape is, it certainly does not justify state killing. What principles are we basing this on to allow the state to take a human life?

An even bigger argument against death penalty for rape is that it means there's no incentive for a rapist to not murder their victim.

Jumboman

NiallSparky wrote: »

An even bigger argument against death penalty for rape is that it means there's no incentive for a rapist to not murder their victim.

What about repeat sex offeners like the guy in cork who was convicted of rape on 4 separate occasions prison is obviously no deterrent to him. If he was put down he would not have the opportunity to rape someone again.

AudreyHepburn

No.

Why should anyone have the right to say whether another lives or dies?

mattjack

Jumboman wrote: »

Hes a sadistic paedophile child killer. Do you really think he has anything positive to contribute to society ? Keeping him alive is a waste of tax payers money.

Why not answer the question you've been asked ? would you have liked him to have been executed after his original conviction at the age of ten or so or for downloading child pornography ?.

Billy de Bollix

Rape, child melostation, cruelty to animals, one direction fans, heroin addicts, fianna fail/green party.....actually ALL politicians. Should be ejected from this earth.

old hippy

Jumboman wrote: »

What about repeat sex offeners like the guy in cork who was convicted of rape on 4 separate occasions prison is obviously no deterrent to him. If he was put down he would not have the opportunity to rape someone again.

What do you mean by "put down"?

And what should Venebales be executed for?

Would you be happy to execute him?

catallus

"Put Down" as in killed. Like an animal.

I'd happily do it, for a fee.

old hippy

catallus wrote: »

"Put Down" as in killed. Like an animal.

I'd happily do it, for a fee.

You'd do it for money? Like a happy go lucky mercenary, who enjoys murdering people for a fat pay cheque?

Not because you might be doing it on some kind of justice is served principle?

Interesting.

catallus

What, I'm supposed to do it for nothing?

Wabbit Ears

yea, you gotta ice the cake