Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

Billy86

Mr Williams wrote: »

Yes but it happens extremely rarely. Wheelie bin man did his community a favour he should not be locked up.

This is the point where I'm beginning reckon you're trolling - on one hand you are saying "nobody" you have heard of has been murdered over it, then on the other you were perfectly aware of someone who was, hence you were lying. Secondly, you claim nobody would get murdered over being on a public register, then salute someone... for murdering a person over being a known paedophile.

Mr Williams

Billy86 wrote: »

Nonsense... again. What about the Asian guy who had his house broken into an was beaten so badly with hammers that the scene was described as a 'bloodbath' with neighbours being woken from their sleep from the screaming. Or the family in Tipperary who had their front window basically caved in, were tied up and terrorised with guns and a machete? I'm sure their 8, 6 and 3 year old daughters won't be traumatised for life over that of course! Or the guy who got attacked in the Great Train Robbery, had to retire because of those injuries and as a result died about a year later.

These guys re-offend at much, much higher rates than paedophiles - convicts most forms of burglary are over 4 times more likely to do so. But hey, let's not allow facts and reality and all that junk get in the way...

Not at all surprisingly, not one single person has responded to these on this thread, despite my bringing them up multiple times now.

.

I'd agree that those animals that break into peoples houses should get sent down for life. But child abuse is more bigger problem than those sort of burglaries your talking about.

Mr Williams

Billy86 wrote: »

This is the point where I'm beginning reckon you're trolling - on one hand you are saying "nobody" you have heard of has been murdered over it, then on the other you were perfectly aware of someone who was, hence you were lying. Secondly, you claim nobody would get murdered over being on a public register, then salute someone... for murdering a person over being a known paedophile.

I only remembered that case your were talking about. Most sexual offenders dont get attacked.

Also it wasnt murder it was manslaughter the guy was only trying to scare him.

Mr Williams

NiallSparky wrote: »

And you're not? The people of Ireland have voted against capital punishment.

We were never asked if supported capital punishment against child killers and serial child abusers. Most people with any common sense would support the execution of those people.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mr Williams wrote: »

I only remembered that case your were talking about. Most sexual offenders dont get attacked.

Also it wasnt murder it was manslaughter the guy was only trying to scare him.

... and you accuse me of making excuses for criminals?

Sweet Jesus, that's it we're done here.

looking_around

Mr Williams wrote: »

So you dont think pedophiles should be locked up ? your starting to sound like Harriet Harman.

No, once a paedophile crosses over into a child molester, yes. But many dont, and you're locking someone up for having an attraction/feeling they didn't "choose" to have.
You'd punishing someone for thoughts not actions.

Billy86

Mr Williams wrote: »

I'd agree that those animals that break into peoples houses should get sent down for life. But child abuse is more bigger problem than those sort of burglaries your talking about.

Again this is completely untrue - there were 103 reported cases of "defilement of a boy or girl under 17 years of age" from June 2012 - June 2013 (a decrease of 19.5%) compared to 294 cases of aggravated burglary (an increase of 3.2%) - it is almost three times more prevalent.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/crimejustice/2013/recordedcrime_q22013.pdf

And don't even try and claim that aggravated burglaries do not go unreported.

Mr Williams wrote: »

We were never asked if supported capital punishment against child killers and serial child abusers. Most people with any common sense would support the execution of those people.

Yes, we were. We were asked if we wanted to abolish the death sentence for any any all crimes that could be committed, and said yes.

Mr Williams

Billy86 wrote: »

Again this is completely untrue - there were 103 reported cases of "defilement of a boy or girl under 17 years of age" from June 2012 - June 2013 (a decrease of 19.5%) compared to 294 cases of aggravated burglary (an increase of 3.2%) - it is almost three times more prevalent.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/crimejustice/2013/recordedcrime_q22013.pdf

And don't even try and claim that aggravated burglaries do not go unreported.

Yes, we were. We were asked if we wanted to abolish the death sentence for any any all crimes that could be committed, and said yes.

Most sex crimes are not reported but burglaries are.

Mr Williams

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

... and you accuse me of making excuses for criminals?

Sweet Jesus, that's it we're done here.

Your man wasnt a criminal just a concerned citizen who didnt want those beasts in his area.

Mr Williams

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

... and you accuse me of making excuses for criminals?

Sweet Jesus, that's it we're done here.

I'm not surprised to see you running away from the argument.

Your comments were indefeasible.

looking_around

Mr Williams wrote: »

Your man wasnt a criminal just a concerned citizen who didnt want those beasts in his area.

Since when is burning down a house not a crime? regardless of who lived there.

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

What are you talking about ? Its well known that pedophiles reoffend.

I'm sick of people making excuses for these animals.

according to statistics only 15 % have been proven to re-offend, fact, deal with it, when you post evidence proving what the other 85 % do then we can talk

Holsten

Mr. Williams is a troll.

Why bother feeding it and destroying actual discussion?

Billy86

Holsten wrote: »

Mr. Williams is a troll.

Why bother feeding it and destroying actual discussion?

Fair point, I'll pop it on ignore.

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

Yes but it happens extremely rarely.

once is once to many, i don't want ferrel vidulanti vermin in my community thanks

Mr Williams wrote: »

Wheelie bin man did his community a favour he should not be locked up.

Wheelie bin man is a piece of ferrel vermin who needs to be locked up indefinitely, he was probably going to murder someone anyway eventually, just so happens that his first was a paediophile, next time it might be someone for looking strange

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

it wasnt murder

debatable

Mr Williams wrote: »

it was manslaughter

because they probably couldn't get enough evidence to charge him with murder, but no doubt it probably was his intention to kill.

Mr Williams wrote: »

the guy was only trying to scare him.

was he? and how would you know that now? because thats what he supposibly said in court which in turn was reported in the papers? you know people do say things as part of their deffence? chances are he knew exactly what he was going to do and did so, the CPS couldn't get enough evidence so he was charged with a lesser crime to make sure he served some time at least, he's still locked up thankfully for a while at least.

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

We were never asked if supported capital punishment against child killers and serial child abusers.

wrong, you were asked whether to keep it or abolish it, if your for it for sex offenders and rapists then you would say yes, sounds simple to me and i expect most people.

Mr Williams wrote: »

Most people with any common sense would support the execution of those people.

lol, why would "Most people with any common sense" support the execution of those people or anyone? maybe those who don't support executions have the common sense no? what makes your way right? what right do you have to decide who lives or not?

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

Your man wasnt a criminal just a concerned citizen who didnt want those beasts in his area.

the law says otherwise

Arrow.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not every pedophile acts on his or her desires. It´s the same with any fetish or philia.

In any case, putting someone to death because of somethign they are and not because of something they´ve done is defintiely never going to be a good idea.

Oh I'm not speaking in the context of putting them to death for being a pedophile. Was just making the point that I believe them to be a risk...see further down.

looking_around wrote: »

Thats like saying, someone who plays GTA is going to go around robbing cars and killing people.

Thoughts aren't a crime.

Not a good analogy and not at all the same.

Holsten wrote: »

It's also akin to suggesting that everyday normal men are a danger as they find women attractive and might rape them.

Also that stat of 85% is in relation to people convicted of a sexual crime, not people with a diagnosis of pedophilia.

Sex offender does not equal pedophile.

I know that, I never said it did, but we've veered towards speaking about pedophiles so I'll continue...

..It's not at all akin to that.

Sex with a woman is completely legal, achievable and something society would expect from a grown man (unless he's gay then..ya know!).

If you're a pedophile, you're attracted to kids. You're going to want something to scratch that itch, even if it's a picture - which of course is not OK.

I think it's very naive to suggest that pedophile's can live and function with a few impure thoughts and not act on it at all, in any way.

OldNotWIse

Mr Williams wrote: »

I'm not surprised to see you running away from the argument.

Your comments were indefeasible.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Arrow. wrote: »

Oh I'm not speaking in the context of putting them to death for being a pedophile. Was just making the point that I believe them to be a risk...see further down.

....

I think it's very naive to suggest that pedophile's can live and function with a few impure thoughts and not act on it at all, in any way.

You're suggesting punihsing someone for something they are, regardless.

Also: how do you know someone is a pedophile if they never touch a child?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ok, rephrase question: how do you know unless the get cuaght committing the offense?

How do you convict and sentence someone to death for beign a pedophile, without ever cathcing them committing an offense?

The whole idea of the death penalty simply for someone being something, wihtout any evidence that they've committed an offense is one of the most dangerous ideas expressed on this thread.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Billy86

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Your reading comprehension needs some work there Fred.

looking_around

Arrow. wrote: »

If you're a pedophile, you're attracted to kids. You're going to want something to scratch that itch, even if it's a picture - which of course is not OK.

I think it's very naive to suggest that pedophile's can live and function with a few impure thoughts and not act on it at all, in any way.

Alot of them are using 3G CGI and couldn't bare the thought of harming a kid. many peadophiles are very conflicted in their attraction, and feel horrible simply thinking about kids, they do not want to actually harm a kid
You'd still be punishing someone, for something they cannot help. For thoughts not actions

How do you know every peadophile touches a kid or watches child porn(real, not cartoons)?

__
And on my analogy, is it not?
How so?
It's a game about being a criminal, and one could say people like that because they want to do it in real life, but won't because it's against the law/dangerous etc

Mr Williams

end of the road wrote: »

once is once to many, i don't want ferrel vidulanti vermin in my community thanks



Wheelie bin man is a piece of ferrel vermin who needs to be locked up indefinitely, he was probably going to murder someone anyway eventually, just so happens that his first was a paediophile, next time it might be someone for looking strange

Apologies for not writing back sooner my laptop packed up over the christmas.

I would rather have wheelie bin man living in my area than a sex beast.

Wheelie bin man sounds like a civically minded individual who was trying to protect his community.

Mr Williams

end of the road wrote: »

the law says otherwise

Sometimes the law is wrong. The law also released larry murphy into the community. In some cases people need to forgot the law and do whats right. Those of us with kids can not allow these sex beasts to live in our community.

Mr Williams

end of the road wrote: »

debatable

because they probably couldn't get enough evidence to charge him with murder, but no doubt it probably was his intention to kill.

was he? and how would you know that now? because thats what he supposibly said in court which in turn was reported in the papers? you know people do say things as part of their deffence? chances are he knew exactly what he was going to do and did so, the CPS couldn't get enough evidence so he was charged with a lesser crime to make sure he served some time at least, he's still locked up thankfully for a while at least.

You seem more concerned about a dead sex beast than the people he abused.

The world is a better place without this beast.

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

Apologies for not writing back sooner my laptop packed up over the christmas.

I would rather have wheelie bin man living in my area than a sex beast.

Wheelie bin man sounds like a civically minded individual who was trying to protect his community.

lol, he didn't care about his community, his sort don't care about their community either, its all about inflating their ego, thankfully they fail

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

Sometimes the law is wrong.

yeah, agree, sometimes it is, but not in the case of vidulanty vermin

Mr Williams wrote: »

The law also released larry murphy into the community.

sure, he shouldn't have been released, but he was, so get over it

Mr Williams wrote: »

In some cases people need to forgot the law and do whats right.

if your talking about something like protesting against a corrupt dictator who has banned protests, then i agree with you, if its murdering people, then no.

Mr Williams wrote: »

Those of us with kids can not allow these sex beasts to live in our community.

well allow them you will, their going to go somewhere, keep an eye on your kids instead of expecting everyone else to do so and then maybe you should have any problems

Mr Williams

end of the road wrote: »

lol, he didn't care about his community, his sort don't care about their community either, its all about inflating their ego, thankfully they fail

How do you know that ? I think his actions speak louder than words.

Mr Williams

end of the road wrote: »

well allow them you will, their going to go somewhere, keep an eye on your kids instead of expecting everyone else to do so and then maybe you should have any problems

So you blame a parent for when a child goes missing and not the pervert that took them ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mr Williams wrote: »

Sometimes the law is wrong....

Certain pedophiles use the same excuse.

While the law may be (and probably is in this case) wrong, your argument falls because of the assumption that any alternative (specifically vigilanteism - or the death peanlty, to bring this back on topic) is therefore, automatically right.

zcorpian88

No, It's just a ridiculous quick fix to not building enough prisons.

More prisons and much longer sentences. Our justice system is beyond a joke.

J_E

zcorpian88 wrote: »

No, It's just a ridiculous quick fix to not building enough prisons.

More prisons and much longer sentences. Our justice system is beyond a joke.

Yeah, build more prisons and then end up like the US where it becomes a profit to jail more people and have them work for nothing. Great idea.

osarusan

Cydoniac wrote: »

Yeah, build more prisons and then end up like the US where it becomes a profit to jail more people and have them work for nothing. Great idea.

That's not what they said at all.

More prisons doesn't have to lead to that outcome.

old hippy

Mr Williams wrote: »

Apologies for not writing back sooner my laptop packed up over the christmas.

I would rather have wheelie bin man living in my area than a sex beast.

Wheelie bin man sounds like a civically minded individual who was trying to protect his community.

He's nothing of the sort. He's a murderer.

Mr Williams wrote: »

Sometimes the law is wrong. The law also released larry murphy into the community. In some cases people need to forgot the law and do whats right. Those of us with kids can not allow these sex beasts to live in our community.

Yeah, just forget about that old law thing, go out and murder people :rolleyes:

It's the civil thing to do.

Holsten

osarusan wrote: »

That's not what they said at all.

More prisons doesn't have to lead to that outcome.

Doesn't have to but it has happened in the USA. These prisons need to be full for them to make a profit, so people are near forced back into them.

And longer sentencing does nothing to help crime. At all. If anything it makes crime worse.

Mr Williams

Can anyone here from the human rights brigade give me one good reason why this child rapist animal in athlone should not be put down ?

Every his own girlfriend said he should be put in a gas chamber.

http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/news/5487081/Put-him-in-the-gas-chamber-Fury-of-caged-child-rape-beasts-ex-girlfriend.html

THE monster who raped two girls aged six and nine should be killed with poison gas, an ex-girlfriend of his says.

She told the Irish Sun: “There should be a death penalty for this — two little kids’ lives ruined.” The evil dad of two was given two life terms on Monday over the sickening attacks in Athlone last year.
Speaking from her west of Ireland home, his former partner said: “It is a shocking crime. They should bring in the gas chamber for things like that. I never thought he was capable of anything like that.
“Prison is too good for him.”

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

Can anyone here from the human rights brigade give me one good reason why this child rapist animal in athlone should not be put down ?

Every his own girlfriend said he should be put in a gas chamber.

http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/news/5487081/Put-him-in-the-gas-chamber-Fury-of-caged-child-rape-beasts-ex-girlfriend.html

no point in bringing up a dying thread, nothing you will say will change the minds of those of us who don't support a backward outdated punishment that does nothing, has failed, and is to risky to implament, now thats all i'l say on the matter.

Mr Williams

end of the road wrote: »

no point in bringing up a dying thread, nothing you will say will change the minds of those of us who don't support a backward outdated punishment that does nothing, has failed, and is to risky to implament, now thats all i'l say on the matter.

Backward ? thats right we should just let these sex beasts run wild in the community because it would be against their "human rights" to shoot them.

looking_around

Mr Williams wrote: »

Backward ? thats right we should just let these sex beasts run wild in the community because it would be against their "human rights" to shoot them.

No, they shouldn't be allowed to roam, I all for ankle wireless braceletts/shared-watched 'home'. Where they can still have a job but where/when they are is monitored.

don't know if that would potentially be more or less cost affective than prison, but death isn't the way to go either.

Maybe in time we'll learn enough about the brain to place a chip that zaps them if they think about/do something.

Basically, punishments need to change, but forwards, not backwards.

Mr Williams

looking_around wrote: »

Where they can still have a job but where/when they are is monitored.

Would you not agree that animal in athlone should never be let back into the community ?


I think people like your self are far too soft on these animals. In my opinion once someone rapes a child they should get the death penalty end of story.

The problem is that the sex beast in athlone will probably not serve anymore than 15 years in prison. Then he will be free to do the same thing all over again. If we had the death penalty it would stop these beasts from ever harming another child.

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

Would you not agree that animal in athlone should never be let back into the community ?


I think people like your self are far too soft on these animals. In my opinion once someone rapes a child they should get the death penalty end of story.

The problem is that the sex beast in athlone will probably not serve anymore than 15 years in prison. Then he will be free to do the same thing all over again. If we had the death penalty it would stop these beasts from ever harming another child.

so would locking them up for life, now stop wasting everyones time coming out with daily mail style rabel rabel and let this thread dye

Hootanany

Yes for anyone with more than 30 convictions because they will never learn so get rid I say. Save an awful lot of time and money.

cometogether

Hootanany wrote: »

Yes for anyone with more than 30 convictions because they will never learn so get rid I say. Save an awful lot of time and money.

False on the money front, in America at least it costs more to execute somebody then to lock them up for life

Mr Williams

cometogether wrote: »

False on the money front, in America at least it costs more to execute somebody then to lock them up for life

Its only when you let the PC brigade defend these animals that it costs more money.

That scumbag in athlone should be put into the general prison population. He would be dead within a week and it wouldn't cost the tax payer a penny, problem solved.

Mr Williams

end of the road wrote: »

so would locking them up for life, now stop wasting everyones time coming out with daily mail style rabel rabel and let this thread dye

I'm sorry I dont speak in Irish Times politically correct speak.

The sex beast in athlone is actually a victim of society and should be treated with kid gloves :rolleyes: Hows that sound ?

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

Its only when you let people defend these animals that it costs more money.

bull****, those carrying out the execution will get payed a lot also, anyway so what, these "animals" are entitled to be deffended, things can go wrong during the trial and evidence can come up later proving their innocence, so get over it.

Mr Williams wrote: »

the PC brigade

doesn't exist, its only a mythical organization people believe exists so they can rant at something because they can't get their way or because they can't spout bull**** unchallenged, now seriously, give up and go away, the death penalty isn't coming back, end of.