Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

Mr Williams

NiallSparky wrote: »

And what does Kevin Myers know about the running of prisons?

Regardless, he's actually criticising the conditions in Mountjoy. Hardly backs up the holiday camp argument.

More than Lonergan I'd say mountjoy was and is a wash with drugs.

The jail Gilligan was in isnt far off a holiday camp.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mr Williams wrote: »

What did they do ?

That's just it. They were convicted of killing 21 people in a pub bombing. Except, sixteen years later, guess what happened?

Mr Williams wrote: »

A rope or a bullet doesnt cost much.

See above.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mr Williams wrote: »

Gilligan and his pals look like they were having the time of their lives inside Portlaoise prison.

You appear to have missed the bit in bold....

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Do you know exactly what conditions he was held under? I mean actually "know" - not have read in some trashy tabloid or imagined because you think it migth help your point?

If so, please tell. If not, you are in no position to criticise either the prison service or its personnel (current or past).

Mr Williams

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's just it. They were convicted of killing 21 people in a pub bombing. Except, sixteen years later, guess what happened?



See above.

Well I'm talking about putting down sex beasts whats the odds of someone been wrongfully convicted of rape on multiple occasions ?

Mr Williams

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You appear to have missed the bit in bold....

Thats actual video footage from inside the prison I think it speaks for its self.

Amirani

Mr Williams wrote: »

Well I'm talking about putting down sex beasts whats the odds of someone been wrongfully convicted of rape on multiple occasions ?

Basing capital punishment trials on "odds" isn't exactly comforting. Ever hear of Sally Clark?

http://understandinguncertainty.org/node/545

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mr Williams wrote: »

Well I'm talking about putting down sex beasts whats the odds of someone been wrongfully convicted of rape on multiple occasions ?

Pretty sure you've said murderers also. But if not the question begs to be asked, why not? Why the prediliction for sex attacks? or get back to the issue at hand - how do you deal with miscarraiges of justice?

Mr Williams wrote: »

Thats actual video footage from inside the prison I think it speaks for its self.

Red box in the top says different. Could easily be a staged with a lookalike. In any case, still doesnt hold up your point unless you can prive he was doign the same forthe rest of his 16 years or whatever it was.

Billy86

on the river wrote: »

Crime gangs would leave the country in fear of their lives.

Nope.

Mr Williams

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Pretty sure you've said murderers also. But if not the question begs to be asked, why not? Why the prediliction for sex attacks? or get back to the issue at hand - how do you deal with miscarraiges of justice?

You can reform a murderer you cant reform a sex beast. The miscarraige of justice is a straw man argument. Do you think Larry Murphy is innocent ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Red box in the top says different. Could easily be a staged with a lookalike. In any case, still doesnt hold up your point unless you can prive he was doign the same forthe rest of his 16 years or whatever it was.

Are you saying the video is fake ?

Billy86

Mr Williams wrote: »

The miscarraige of justice is a straw man argument.

Nope.

Nope nope nope.

csallmighty

Mr Williams wrote: »

You can reform a murderer you cant reform a sex beast.

Sorry to hijack your discussion but that is an absurd statement.

Can you reform this guy?

Mr Williams

csallmighty wrote: »

Sorry to hijack your discussion but that is an absurd statement.

Can you reform this guy?

He would be another good candidate for the death penalty. I suppose some people must think there is a chance he may be innocent ?

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

More than Lonergan I'd say

oh dear god, how would a journalist who never had any experience of the prison system know more about that system and how it works then someone who actually ran a prison?

Mr Williams wrote: »

mountjoy was and is a wash with drugs.

so are many prisons, even prisons in america can't keep them out fully.

Mr Williams wrote: »

The jail Gilligan was in isnt far off a holiday camp.

were you in it?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mr Williams wrote: »

You can reform a murderer you cant reform a sex beast. The miscarraige of justice is a straw man argument. Do you think Larry Murphy is innocent ?



Are you saying the video is fake ?

Larry Murphy should be behind bars for the rest of his life, no argument there.

We've been down the "can't be reformed" road, as well you know. Proven conclusion was that you were spouting bull**** as you have no idea whether they can be reformed or not. You tried to strawman me by claiming I said they could be reformed (which I hadn;t) and finally admitte that you had no idea whather they could be reformed or not, so why are you still harping on about it now?


Beyond that, the only reason that the miscarraige of justice could be a "strawman" was if you were saying that miscarraiges and innocent people beign killed is irrelvant to the argument. Is that what you;re saying?

Regards the video, I'm saying that I don't beleive it to be in context or representative of life in prison.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mr Williams wrote: »

He would be another good candidate for the death penalty. I suppose some people must think there is a chance he may be innocent ?

Now THAT'S a strawman, right there.

Mr Williams

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Larry Murphy should be behind bars for the rest of his life, no argument there.

So why not put him down? that would stop him ever being a danger to the community.

We've been down the "can't be reformed" road, as well you know. Proven conclusion was that you were spouting bull**** as you have no idea whether they can be reformed or not.

There is no way a sex beast that rapes childern can ever be reformed you dont need to be a rocket scientist to work that one out.

Beyond that, the only reason that the miscarraige of justice could be a "strawman" was if you were saying that miscarraiges and innocent people beign killed is irrelvant to the argument. Is that what you;re saying?

Cars also kill innocent people should we ban those aswell ?

With modern dna evidence the chances of a sex beast been wrongfully convicted is about zero. If you want to save innocent lives then we need to keep these beasts out of the community.

Regards the video, I'm saying that I don't beleive it to be in context or representative of life in prison.

The video shows that prison is basically a holiday camp.

Mr Williams

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Now THAT'S a strawman, right there.

So if we know hes 100% guilty then there is no reason not to put him down.

In norway they can only keep him locked up for 17 years.

Mr Williams

end of the road wrote: »

oh dear god, how would a journalist who never had any experience of the prison system know more about that system and how it works then someone who actually ran a prison?

so are many prisons, even prisons in america can't keep them out fully.

were you in it?

Lonergan coundn't run a creche never mind a prison. Mountjoy was a lawless place when he ran it he let the prisoners do whatever they wanted.

The inmates see him as clown he is able to freely socialise with former inmates.

In any other country a prison governor would not be able to meet former inmates without security around them.

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

So if we know hes 100% guilty then there is no reason not to put him down.

their is, its wrong to take a life, to preach about the wrongs of a certain and then for the state to commit the ultimate crime is hypocritical and makes no sense.

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

So why not put him down? that would stop him ever being a danger to the community.

see my previous post

Mr Williams wrote: »

modern dna evidence

isn't fool proof and isn't perfect, anyone who thinks otherwise is delusianel, it can easily be tampered with also.

Mr Williams wrote: »

With modern dna evidence the chances of a sex beast been wrongfully convicted is about zero.

wrong, its not perfect

Mr Williams wrote: »

If you want to save innocent lives then we need to keep these beasts out of the community.

agree, so full life sentences are the answer, the death penalty has failed as proven world wide.

end of the road

Mr Williams wrote: »

Lonergan coundn't run a creche never mind a prison.

oh? he still ran a prison, you haven't and never will, and the journalist you quoted never has and never will run a prison.

Mr Williams wrote: »

Mountjoy was a lawless place when he ran it he let the prisoners do whatever they wanted.

wrong

Mr Williams wrote: »

The inmates see him as clown he is able to freely socialise with former inmates.

wrong on part 1, and good on part 2, to think that former inmates and inmates have respect for a prison governor is a good thing

Mr Williams wrote: »

In any other country a prison governor would not be able to meet former inmates without security around them.

which is very unfortunate if true which i suspect maybe the case only with some.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mr Williams wrote: »

So if we know hes 100% guilty then there is no reason not to put him down.

In norway they can only keep him locked up for 17 years.

Your point was that some people might htink he's innocent. Unless someone said that, it's still a strawman argument.

The problem is you're not going to get someone to agree or disagree with the deth penalty on one case. It's a principle, an economic matter, a moral issue, whatever you want - but it's not a single case. Give me an argument as to WHY - not WHO. Then we'll discuss who.

Mr Williams wrote: »

So why not put him down? that would stop him ever being a danger to the community.

This depends: what do you want. Do you want him to suffer? They you want recividism? Do you want economics to play a part?

There is no way a sex beast that rapes childern can ever be reformed you dont need to be a rocket scientist to work that one out.

Again, we've discussed this. You don't have a clue whether it is or not.

Cars also kill innocent people should we ban those aswell ?

Never seen a car kill someone. Seen it used to kill someone, but not kill someone.

With modern dna evidence the chances of a sex beast been wrongfully convicted is about zero. If you want to save innocent lives then we need to keep these beasts out of the community.

You have NO interest in protecting innocent people, as has been proven. You just want blood and you dont care how.

The video shows that prison is basically a holiday camp.

I'm assuming you;ve never been in either a prison or a holiday camp, and I'll assume you're not stupid to beleive that prison is one big party 24/7. Would those be safe assumptions?

In any case, it's off topic: even if you were right (and you could be for all I know - but based on experiences of people who have been in prison you aren't) I'd simply argue that prison life should be made tougher, end of argument. The point does nothing to promote the death penalty.

Billy86

Mr Williams wrote: »

There is no way a sex beast that rapes childern can ever be reformed you dont need to be a rocket scientist to work that one out.

Nope.

With modern dna evidence the chances of a sex beast been wrongfully convicted is about zero. If you want to save innocent lives then we need to keep these beasts out of the community.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.

The Antigay

What if they want to be executed?

J_E

Mr Williams wrote: »

sex beast

ugh, can't you stop with the tabloid word vomit and at least use real life terms?

Mal-Adjusted

The Antigay wrote: »

What if they want to be executed?

What if they do? Assisted suicide is illegal in this country. There was a big hoo-ha about it recently.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cydoniac wrote: »

ugh, can't you stop with the tabloid word vomit and at least use real life terms?

I know - I can't stop misreading it as this....

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

What if they do? Assisted suicide is illegal in this country. There was a big hoo-ha about it recently.

Interestign point: if you want to die, commit murder, get the death penalty, is it then illegal?

OldNotWIse

J_E

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Replace the clothes with tracksuits, the smooth American voices with something a little less polished, and you might have your average modern mob there.

on the river

Fallability.

If their is strong DNA evidence and withness statements and a history of the

defendant past crimes the dath penalty is the best solution.

Cost (both of appeals and leaving the EU).

less cost. you are saving the tax payer money by not paying for food and
accomodation in prison. Appeals will be pointless because the individual will be dead.

Pointlessness

I think it would be better to see extreme criminals dead then
roaming the streets after only a decade or less in prison.

Their is a greater chance for these sort of criminals to reoffend which
would cost the state more in putting the criminal back in prison.

the death penalty would actually save money and more impotantly

peoples lives fron these dangerous criminals.

Amirani

on the river wrote: »

If their is strong DNA evidence and withness statements and a history of the

defendant past crimes the dath penalty is the best solution.


less cost. you are saving the tax payer money by not paying for food and
accomodation in prison. Appeals will be pointless because the individual will be dead.



I think it would be better to see extreme criminals dead then
roaming the streets after only a decade or less in prison.

Their is a greater chance for these sort of criminals to reoffend which
would cost the state more in putting the criminal back in prison.

the death penalty would actually save money and more impotantly

peoples lives fron these dangerous criminals.

Why doesn't it work in the US so? Why are murder rates generally higher in states that have the death penalty? Why are more and more states removing the death penalty from their statutes?

It's all well and good arguing about ideologies and the morality of it all, but the fact of the matter is that the death penalty doesn't work, has never worked and will never work. There's countless examples of countries using the death penalty past and present, please identify a single one that has been successful in reducing crime.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

on the river wrote: »

less cost. you are saving the tax payer money by not paying for food and
accomodation in prison. Appeals will be pointless because the individual will be dead.

Em... you do realise that you have to feed them while their appeals are in process, right?

As for the rest of your argument, you clearly have no idea that the variable costs are of keeping extra prisoners; you clearly have no idea how much it costs appeal a death sentence; so how in the hell can you claim that one costs less than the other...?!

And the point about prison being harder/easier is not relevant to the death penalty as most people would have no problem with a harder prions regime.

Research, please, then come back to us.

loveisdivine

on the river wrote: »

If their is strong DNA evidence and withness statements and a history of the

defendant past crimes .

What if this is the first offence?

No Pants

Cydoniac wrote: »

ugh, can't you stop with the tabloid word vomit and at least use real life terms?

Wasn't this a song from Tom Jones?

on the river

loveisdivine wrote: »

What if this is the first offence?

a good slap on the arse and 20 years in prison.

I only arguing for the death penalty where a individual has commited

violent acts of rape and muder numerous times.

these people should be served the death penalty to protect the public.

Holsten

on the river wrote: »

a good slap on the arse and 20 years in prison.

I only arguing for the death penalty where a individual has commited

violent acts of rape and muder numerous times.

these people should be served the death penalty to protect the public.

But if this was the case they would be in prison for the remainder of their lives.

The public is protected if they are still allowed to live.

on the river

Holsten wrote: »

But if this was the case they would be in prison for the remainder of their lives.

The public is protected if they are still allowed to live.

what about the other prisoners.

Most are these criminals do get out on bail or serving short sentences.

Dublin Red Devil

No I disagree with the death penalty. It's not for Ireland

Holsten

on the river wrote: »

what about the other prisoners.

Most are these criminals do get out on bail or serving short sentences.

Give me an example of a serial murderer or rapist who is serving a short sentence?

I agree that all prisoners within the system should be able to serve their time without threats of violence.

end of the road

on the river wrote: »

If their is strong DNA evidence and withness statements and a history of the

defendant past crimes the dath penalty is the best solution.


less cost. you are saving the tax payer money by not paying for food and
accomodation in prison. Appeals will be pointless because the individual will be dead.



I think it would be better to see extreme criminals dead then
roaming the streets after only a decade or less in prison.

Their is a greater chance for these sort of criminals to reoffend which
would cost the state more in putting the criminal back in prison.

the death penalty would actually save money and more impotantly

peoples lives fron these dangerous criminals.

all has been proven not to be the case, the death penalty costs more, end of, your post has been debunked countless times

con___manx1

I think if the death penalty was brought in the execution should take place 1 year after the conviction is handed down. In China and Taiwan and such places the death penalty is carried out pretty quick. No waiting 20 years like in the USA .no lethal injection either. I think it should be done by firing squad i with hanging in a close second. Child rape should be automatic death sentence. 1 year later fill d bastard full of bullets.

end of the road

on the river wrote: »

what about the other prisoners.

Most are these criminals do get out on bail or serving short sentences.

full life sentences would solv that problem

Holsten

con___manx1 wrote: »

Child rape should be automatic death sentence.

Do you think before you post?

Think about it LOGICALLY for one second. Child rapist has just raped a child, he/she will now be put to death IF CAUGHT.

What's a really good way to lower the chances they'll get caught? Kill the only witness - the child.

By bringing in a law like this you would lower the rate of child rapists caught and up the rate of child murders.

on the river

Holsten wrote: »

Do you think before you post?

Think about it LOGICALLY for one second. Child rapist has just raped a child, he will now be put to death IF CAUGHT.

What's a really good way to lower the chances he'll get caught? Kill the only witness - the child.

By bringing in a law like this you would lower the rate of child rapists caught and up the rate of child murders.

Its called a zero tolerance approuch.

These crimes =death penalty .

How could you defend these criminals ?

end of the road

con___manx1 wrote: »

I think if the death penalty was brought in the execution should take place 1 year after the conviction is handed down. In China and Taiwan and such places the death penalty is carried out pretty quick. No waiting 20 years like in the USA .no lethal injection either. I think it should be done by firing squad i with hanging in a close second. Child rape should be automatic death sentence. 1 year later fill d bastard full of bullets.

and these countries are still completely rife with crime, most of those countries you mention have the death penalty for religious reasons, thankfully though tabloid types like yourself will have no say in the running of a country

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

on the river wrote: »

Its called a zero tolerance approuch.

These crimes =death penalty .

How could you defend these criminals ?

Seeing as no one is actually defending them, the only other possible interpretaino of your post is that you're okay with the idea of the criminal killing the child if it means bringing in the death penalty.

end of the road

Holsten wrote: »

Do you think before you post?

Think about it LOGICALLY for one second. Child rapist has just raped a child, he/she will now be put to death IF CAUGHT.

What's a really good way to lower the chances they'll get caught? Kill the only witness - the child.

By bringing in a law like this you would lower the rate of child rapists caught and up the rate of child murders.

these people don't know how to think outside the ferrel tabloid trash nonsense that they are spoon fed

Holsten

It really is like talking to a brick wall.

end of the road

on the river wrote: »

Its called a zero tolerance approuch.

which doesn't work, yet you will bring it in even though it could lead to more murders to lessen the chance of being caught, great logic

on the river wrote: »

These crimes =death penalty .

life in prison

on the river wrote: »

How could you defend these criminals ?

stop reading the tabloids, pointing out the death penalty has failed doesn't mean defending criminals

Holsten

Holsten wrote: »

Do you think before you post?

Think about it LOGICALLY for one second. Child rapist has just raped a child, he/she will now be put to death IF CAUGHT.

What's a really good way to lower the chances they'll get caught? Kill the only witness - the child.

By bringing in a law like this you would lower the rate of child rapists caught and up the rate of child murders.

had to laugh at this one.... So when this dead child is found do you not think their would be an investigation and DNA evidence of the sexual crime

Death penalty is a difficult one.. but their are alot of people who really do not deserve to live...

It may well act as a deterrant to serious crime.