Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

Norwesterner

jimgoose wrote: »

I used to think the death penalty was a good idea, until it occurred to me that an even better punishment is forcible removal from society in such a way that the convict is fully aware of it for as long as possible. That is, maximum security solitary, for life. Meaning "life".

Even at a cost of 100'000 euros per year per prisoner for taxpayers?
I'd support it in certain cases.
Abso-feckin-lutely

TheFOB

namloc1980 wrote: »

Castration doesn't prevent reoffending. It's sadistic and irreversible and amounts to a punishment for life.

No but it reduces the chances of reoffending from 65% to 2.2%. Chemical castration, coupled with long prison sentencing and post prison monitoring (ankle bracelets & registers) will control the problem. It's sick the killer of Jill Meagher benefited from weak sentencing.

https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1794/4593/80_Or_L_Rev_267.pdf?sequence=1

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9139845/Paedophiles-chemically-castrated-in-British-jail.html

Norwesterner

Castration is already permissable in the UK and Germany.
Ireland should catch up on the real world.
Many sex offenders actually apply to be chemically castrated in return for early releases and re-integration to the public.
Calling it barbaric is just ignorant and ill-thought out, knee jerk responses.

Norwesterner

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It is the very least a sex offender deserves, especially a child abuser. I think their penis and testicles should be surgically removed. It would be fitting punishment.

I'd have no problem with that, but they'd use other items to insatiate their desires.
Chemical castration kills their urges and is more effective.

namloc1980

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It is the very least a sex offender deserves, especially a child abuser. I think their penis and testicles should be surgically removed. It would be fitting punishment.

I honestly hope we never resort to mutilating other humans in the name of justice. Sickening.

Norwesterner

namloc1980 wrote: »

I honestly hope we never resort to mutilating other humans in the name of justice. Sickening.

Do you object to chemical castration?

TheFOB

namloc1980 wrote: »

I honestly hope we never resort to mutilating other humans in the name of justice. Sickening.

There is no other way to stop them reoffending. Chemical castration kills the sexual desire they have. It's the only method that has worked.

namloc1980

TheFOB wrote: »

There is no other way to stop them reoffending. Chemical castration kills the sexual desire they have. It's the only method that has worked.

Mutiliation is way beyond what I would consider justice. Anyway that debate is for another thread, this is about reintroduction of capital punishment.

end of the road

Norwesterner wrote: »

Ireland should catch up on the real world.

that statement makes no sense

osarusan

Never, ever. Not in any circumstances whatsoever.

Cedrus

Norwesterner wrote: »

Castration is already permissable in the UK and Germany.
Ireland should catch up on the real world.
Many sex offenders actually apply to be chemically castrated in return for early releases and re-integration to the public.
Calling it barbaric is just ignorant and ill-thought out, knee jerk responses.

Do you have any references to support this (that don't involve redtop newspapers)

Back in the Real, Real World, Ireland has joined ALL of the EU countries in banning capital punishment. Because it cannot be justified.

TheFOB

Cedrus wrote: »

Do you have any references to support this (that don't involve redtop newspapers)

Back in the Real, Real World, Ireland has joined ALL of the EU countries in banning capital punishment. Because it cannot be justified.

..

The list of nations with existing castration statutes includes Canada,
Argentina, Germany, Poland, the Czech Republic, Great Britain, Denmark, Sweden, Moldova, Estonia, Israel, Australia, New Zealand, and South Korea, among others (“Chemical castration,” 2006; Sinha, 2011; “Germany urged,” 2012), with the Estonian and Moldovan laws being passed within the past six months (“Moldova votes,” 2012; “Estonian parliament,” 2012).

http://wakespace.lib.wfu.edu/bitstream/handle/10339/37658/Vaillancourt_wfu_0248M_10359.pdf

Motopepe

What about a death 'penalty points' system? Like the one we use for traffic offenses. Lose twelve points in a year and its the chair. We could amalgamate all offenses into this system. Murder could cost say eleven points and so you wouldn't want to step out of line at all for the rest of the year.

vibe666

whilst I'm not specifically against the death penalty itself, miscarriages of justice are surprisingly common and I am very much against the idea of killing potentially innocent people in the name of justice.

when the justice system can 100% guarantee that only the truly guilty will be found guilty in a court of law then by all means kill all the murderers and kiddie fiddlers, but until then, we'll just have to make do with what we have.

mentalist101

Yes I would for serious offences like Murder, Rape and white collar crime over a certain amount of money and they would not linger for years wasting tax payer funds before they get the Injection. Three years to prove their innocence and they should be put down.

namloc1980

Would those advocating bringing back capital punishment actively support us leaving the EU to do so? Death penalty is illegal under EU law.

DarkJager

I'd absolutely support it. We have way too many scrotes in this country with 300+ previous convictions who think they are invincible. Prison sentences are simply viewed as a holiday by them. They might think a bit differently about things if there was a death penalty in place.

Amirani

DarkJager wrote: »

I'd absolutely support it. We have way too many scrotes in this country with 300+ previous convictions who think they are invincible. Prison sentences are simply viewed as a holiday by them. They might think a bit differently about things if there was a death penalty in place.

This has been proven not to be the case.

DarkJager

NiallSparky wrote: »

This has been proven not to be the case.

Well if it doesn't change their thinking, at least we can dispose of them and not waste tax money keeping them in a comfy prison cell.

Amirani

DarkJager wrote: »

Well if it doesn't change their thinking, at least we can dispose of them and not waste tax money keeping them in a comfy prison cell.

It's also been shown that it costs more public money to execute someone than to incarcerate them for the rest of their lives.

DarkJager

NiallSparky wrote: »

It's also been shown that it costs more public money to execute someone than to incarcerate them for the rest of their lives.

Electricity costs aren't that high

Son Of A Vidic

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Would you support the reintroduction of the death penalty?

No.

Because I don't have 100% confidence in the investigative integrity and competence of the Gardaí. I also don't have 100% confidence in our Judiciary. Imposing a death sentence should contain absolutely no margin of error.

7ofBrian

I think the death penalty should be reintroduced but as it is an end... Not a punishment, the method of death should be chosen by the family of the victim. And ANYTHING goes.

tallus

The one big problem I have with the death penalty, is you cannot take it back if you execute the wrong person.
It's as black and white as that for me.

So my answer is a firm no.

Amirani

7ofBrian wrote: »

I think the death penalty should be reintroduced but as it is an end... Not a punishment, the method of death should be chosen by the family of the victim. And ANYTHING goes.

That's a completely ridiculous suggestion that makes you no better than the original perpetrator.

7ofBrian

NiallSparky wrote: »

That's a completely ridiculous suggestion that makes you no better than the original perpetrator.

Well if that's the case I should be executed and the method of execution chosen by my victims family.

namloc1980

DarkJager wrote: »

Electricity costs aren't that high

But legal costs are though. Some seriously bloodthirsty people here. I'd say ye would love to live in Texas or China.

stoneill

As Gandalf said:
Many that live deserve death.
And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them?
Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.

**Vai**

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

Well a couple of days ago Texas executed its 500 th prisoner.
Among the 500 put to death by Texas since the state resumed the death penalty in 1982 were three people who were in all probability innocent. Carlos DeLuna was executed in 1989 having been mistaken for another Carlos; Ruben Cantu was sent to the death chamber in 1993 largely on eyewitness testimony from a co-defendant and a shooting survivor, both of whom later recanted; and Cameron Todd Willingham was put to death in 2004 for starting a fire that killed his three children based on forensic evidence that later turned out to be seriously unreliable.
That's only the tip of the iceberg,how would YOU feel if you were totally innocent of a crime and knew you'd be meeting your maker,think about it.

Again, those mistakes were failings in the courts, not the death penalty deciding to take innocent lives.

Hagar the Nice.

**Vai** wrote: »

Again, those mistakes were failings in the courts, not the death penalty deciding to take innocent lives.

Correct but at the same time think of that person's relatives and friends,how must they have felt knowing that a life has been taken from them,eh?

tigger123

**Vai** wrote: »

Again, those mistakes were failings in the courts, not the death penalty deciding to take innocent lives.

Your argument doesn't hold much water tbh, at least if you're serving life and its discovered that there's been a miscarriage of justice you can be released. You can't reverse a death penalty.

**Vai**

Yeah I do understand whats being said. I simply think the issue should lie with the courts and making sure they get it right in the extreme cases that I think should warrant death.

Jimmy Garlic

tigger123 wrote: »

Your argument doesn't hold much water tbh, at least if you're serving life and its discovered that there's been a miscarriage of justice you can be released. You can't reverse a death penalty.

With all the forensic technology available now the chances of a wrongful conviction are very slim.

**Vai**

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

With all the forensic technology available now the chances of a wrongful conviction are very slim.

Didn't even think of that aspect of it. Very true.

I just don't see it as an argument against the death penalty.

Hagar the Nice.

**Vai** wrote: »

Yeah I do understand whats being said. I simply think the issue should lie with the courts and making sure they get it right in the extreme cases that I think should warrant death.

Okay,I'll give this.
I was at a football match a good few years ago with my cousin.
This guy who was about 30 feet away started shouting "Peter."
He repeated the name a few times and I took no heed until the guy from behind me said 'Excuse me mate but I think the guy over there is shouting your name.'
I then noticed him coming towards me and said 'big man,ain't you talking to me,I'm your old workmate.'
I said 'sorry mate but I've never seen you before in my life,honest.'
He then said I was pulling his leg until I told him my real name and where I lived.'
The guy apologized and said he had never seen anyone so alike in his lifetime,shook hands and went away.
Cousin then said to me 'Why not go rob the local bank,Peter can get the blame once your picture reaches the daily papers.
The point I'm making is that mistakes do occur so its always best to be on the side of safety......just in case.

**Vai**

Hagar the Nice. wrote: »

The point I'm making is that mistakes do occur so its always best to be on the side of safety......just in case.

I get your point, I get what you are arguing, I just don't agree

Cody Pomeray

**Vai** wrote: »

Again, those mistakes were failings in the courts, not the death penalty deciding to take innocent lives.

But a court is the main actor in extending the death penalty.

As long as the courts continue administering justice, and as long as evidence is liable to manipulation or misinterpretation, then the courts will mistakenly apply penal sanctions. And the death penalty is simply the ultimately irreversible penal sanction.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

With all the forensic technology available now the chances of a wrongful conviction are very slim.

No, if that were the case, there wouldn't be thousands of unsafe or wrongful convictions overturned at criminal appeal in Ireland and the UK every year (where the appeal doesn't hear any new evidence). Obviously this still goes beyond DNA and forensic evidence.

vibe666

until you can guarantee 100% with zero chance of error that there will NEVER EVER be a wrongful conviction leading to the execution of an innocent person, there is no room for the death penalty in Ireland or any other country. anything else is nothing more than state sanctioned murder.

think if it this way. if someone you love is wrongfully sentenced to death for a crime they didn't commit and nobody is able to prove the their innocence, are you willing to sacrifice them for the "greater good"?

until there is zero chance of a wrongful conviction, that is what you are advocating if you support the death penalty and that is what will inevitably be forced on innocent families if the death penalty is introduced.

Hitchens

vibe666 wrote: »

think if it this way. if someone you love is wrongfully sentenced to death for a crime they didn't commit and nobody is able to prove the their innocence, are you willing to sacrifice them for the "greater good"?

.

afaik, the accused are under no requirement to prove they are innocent

vibe666

Hitchens wrote: »

afaik, the accused are under no requirement to prove they are innocent

stop trying to be pedantic. I'm talking about a wrongful conviction as you well know, which by the very definition the accused and their legal representatives will be in a position where they have to try and prove their innocence.

end of the road

DarkJager wrote: »

We have way too many scrotes in this country with 300+ previous convictions who think they are invincible. Prison sentences are simply viewed as a holiday by them. They might think a bit differently about things if there was a death penalty in place.

why do you and others keep coming out with this delusianel nonsense? its been prooven that someone who is the type to break the law will do it whatever the punishment, states in america have the death penalty for murder and so on yet it happens a lot. stop deluding yourself that having the death penalty might or will "make people think twice" doesn't work, never has, never will

Jimmy Garlic

vibe666 wrote: »

until you can guarantee 100% with zero chance of error that there will NEVER EVER be a wrongful conviction leading to the execution of an innocent person, there is no room for the death penalty in Ireland or any other country. anything else is nothing more than state sanctioned murder.

think if it this way. if someone you love is wrongfully sentenced to death for a crime they didn't commit and nobody is able to prove the their innocence, are you willing to sacrifice them for the "greater good"?

until there is zero chance of a wrongful conviction, that is what you are advocating if you support the death penalty and that is what will inevitably be forced on innocent families if the death penalty is introduced.

There are many cases involving notorious gangsters in this country. The dogs on the street know they are guilty as sin. They are a scourge on society. They can not be rehabilitated. They are a drain on resources. The solution - the death penalty. The benefits - they are gone for good and a message is sent to the wannabes.

end of the road

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

With all the forensic technology available now the chances of a wrongful conviction are very slim.

still not good enough, forensic technology isn't fool proof, just except it, the death penalty has failed, is a waste of time, and isn't coming back to ireland, if your blood thursty enough go live in china or texas and you can have it away

end of the road

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

There are many cases involving notorious gangsters in this country. The dogs on the street know they are guilty as sin.

do they? the dogs on the street knowing something isn't good enough in court, evidence has to be presented and if the guardai can't find any then no conviction

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

They are a scourge on society. They can not be rehabilitated. They are a drain on resources.

so are supporters of a failure like the death penalty

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

The solution - the death penalty.

no it isn't, its to expensive, to risky, and doesn't work in stopping others.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

The benefits - they are gone for good and a message is sent to the wannabes.

can people like you not get that the death penalty doesn't send any message to those who will break the law or deter them, how hard is it for people to get this?

Hitchens

end of the road wrote: »

can people like you not get that the death penalty doesn't send any message to those who will break the law or deter them, how hard is it for people to get this?

the death penalty means that the perp never murders again

crazy cabbage

They are a scourge on society. They can not be rehabilitated. They are a drain on resources.

That is because we simply do not try and rehabilitate people.

In the Netherlands they have closed 8 prisons and cut 1200 jobs because they simply do not have the enough prisoners. They are that good at rehabilitating people

This was just announced in the last couple of days and shows that it can be done

We Simply do not even attempt to rehabilitate people.

Radiosonde

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

No, if that were the case, there wouldn't be thousands of unsafe or wrongful convictions overturned at criminal appeal in Ireland and the UK every year (where the appeal doesn't hear any new evidence). Obviously this still goes beyond DNA and forensic evidence.

Are there really thousands or are you exaggerating? I'm an opponent of the death penalty (for many reasons), but with the standard required for prosecution I wouldn't have thought the number of successful appeals ran to that many.

Jimmy Garlic

crazy cabbage wrote: »

We Simply do not even attempt to rehabilitate people.

You can not rehabilitate a psychopath. It is impossible.They will go through the motions of "rehabilitation", and tell people what they want to hear, but they will still be violent psychopaths and a danger to society when they are released.

thewayiam

Country might not be fcked if this was an option for all the corrupt bankers!

crazy cabbage

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

You can not rehabilitate a psychopath. It is impossible.They will go through the motions of "rehabilitation", and tell people what they want to hear, but they will still be violent psychopaths and a danger to society when they are released.

Not this **** again

Couldn't be bother to rewrite so i will copy and past

crazy cabbage wrote: »

It isn't illegal to be a psychopath.

Some of the best business people and politicians in the world are psychopaths.

2% of people are psychopaths in the general population.

6% (3 times as many!!!) of CEO's of major corporations and politician are psychopaths.

figures taken from a ted talk

I will try and break it down a little further for you.
Two people kill someone is separate instances. Both almost the exact same. One has a mental illness. The other doesn't. Let go and kill the one with the mental illness.

either way the vast majority of psychopaths will live their lives out normally. Hell they will most properly be more successful that either of us. Why do people keep bringing in psychopaths into the debate?

Am i the only one that thinks psychopaths get a bad time?