Correction for dogs

Plain__Jane

@DBB - I know what you mean, I'm not sure dogs would have the same thought process as humans though, it's interesting to hear though.

I did try the disappearing as well. I would have turned around and walked out of the room, but of no avail. I have a stubborn little collie x(I have two rescue dogs, a lab as well as the collie x) :P

But with corrections, do you think that you should have do it over and over until the dogs gets it, or should it not be enough to do a correction once or twice for it to be an effective correction? Will it not be more harmful to say put your dog in a time out room every week for the rest of his life rather than sorting out the issue quickly?

I have heard of Karen Pryor and I have tired some clicker training with my collie, he responded to it real well

And thanks for being so helpful, I was worried I was going to be attacked by mentioning the water spray bottle :P


Forgot to say, no I don't think he got that scared of the correction used, he walked off, went to his bed for a lie down for about ten minutes or so, then he was back up being his normal self.

DBB

Plain__Jane wrote: »

I did try the disappearing as well. I would have turned around and walked out of the room, but of no avail. I have a stubborn little collie x(I have two rescue dogs, a lab as well as the collie x) :P

Okay, next question, how long did you stick with this for?
If you really exhausted it by trying it, every time, for several weeks, then an option for future reference might be to keep the dog on-lead, and as you walk into the room, step on the lead so that the dog can't get any impetus into lift-off. This give you the opportunity to teach him the alternative behaviour you're looking for.

But with corrections, do you think that you should have do it over and over until the dogs gets it, or should it not be enough to do a correction once or twice for it to be an effective correction?

Corrections should work quickly: if they're not working quickly, they're not working. However, again remember the degrees I've been talking about... just because it might happen quickly does not reduce the potential for damage.
In fact, the most effective punishments should work quickly, but remember, just because it is effective does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that it is acceptable, or not damaging.

Will it not be more harmful to say put your dog in a time out room every week for the rest of his life rather than sorting out the issue quickly?

I hope the paragraph above explains why speed should not necessarily be the priority in terms of welfare.
Also, jayney mac! Time-outs should not have to be used every day or week for the rest of the dog's life! Not at all! If they're used properly and consistently, in most cases they should kick in after a few days. Just in case there's something missing from how I've explained them so far, the idea is that if the dog misbehaves, he gets a warning.. say, an "ouch" if he bites (for puppies). If he continues to bite, ignoring this warning, then he gets a verbal "non-reward marker", something like "that's enough!" or ShaSHa's "Time-Out Time", followed immediately with being put on time-out.
And so, you get to the stage that when you say "that's enough", the dog will stop, because he now knows that this verbal noise means there's an unwanted consequence coming if he continues.
Once this stage has been reached, then an occasional time-out may be needed if the dog oversteps the mark again, but in many cases, the time-outs can disappear altogether after a period of time.

I have heard of Karen Pryor and I have tired some clicker training with my collie, he responded to it real well

Did you try it to get him to sit instead of jumping up? Clicker training is great!

And thanks for being so helpful, I was worried I was going to be attacked by mentioning the water spray bottle :P

I think you came across as very open-minded from the start, and I'm sure that thanks to this, others will get more out of this thread than if it had descended into the madness these threads can end up in
So thank you

Plain__Jane

DBB wrote: »

Okay, next question, how long did you stick with this for?
If you really exhausted it by trying it, every time, for several weeks, then an option for future reference might be to keep the dog on-lead, and as you walk into the room, step on the lead so that the dog can't get any impetus into lift-off. This give you the opportunity to teach him the alternative behaviour you're looking for.



Corrections should work quickly: if they're not working quickly, they're not working. However, again remember the degrees I've been talking about... just because it might happen quickly does not reduce the potential for damage.
In fact, the most effective punishments should work quickly, but remember, just because it is effective does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that it is acceptable, or not damaging.



I hope the paragraph above explains why speed should not necessarily be the priority in terms of welfare.
Also, jayney mac! Time-outs should not have to be used every day or week for the rest of the dog's life! Not at all! If they're used properly and consistently, in most cases they should kick in after a few days. Just in case there's something missing from how I've explained them so far, the idea is that if the dog misbehaves, he gets a warning.. say, an "ouch" if he bites (for puppies). If he continues to bite, ignoring this warning, then he gets a verbal "non-reward marker", something like "that's enough!" or ShaSHa's "Time-Out Time", followed immediately with being put on time-out.
And so, you get to the stage that when you say "that's enough", the dog will stop, because he now knows that this verbal noise means there's an unwanted consequence coming if he continues.
Once this stage has been reached, then an occasional time-out may be needed if the dog oversteps the mark again, but in many cases, the time-outs can disappear altogether after a period of time.




Did you try it to get him to sit instead of jumping up? Clicker training is great!



I think you came across as very open-minded from the start, and I'm sure that thanks to this, others will get more out of this thread than if it had descended into the madness these threads can end up in
So thank you

I tried this for a couple of months, which I thought felt a bit too long even :P So I put in the time and effort in trying that way, and other ways and methods as well. He just did not get it.
With other things he was so quick in coping on, with play biting and just with general commands as well, so I was surprised he did not respond.

And I would think the same way as you, I think any correction needs to be cut out after a period of time.
When he was jumping he did not respond well to verbal commands, he was fairly excited when he jumped up, so it simply just seemed to get him more worked up unfortunately. So the sit did not work either, I tried it as well.

I'm glad to hear that!

Plain__Jane

Oh just one more question, how do people feel about the pet corrector sprays? They seem to be available to buy in most pet shops.

DBB

Plain__Jane wrote: »

Oh just one more question, how do people feel about the pet corrector sprays? They seem to be available to buy in most pet shops.

They're no better, ethically, than a squirty bottle, but can be even more aversive to some dogs because of the noise they make.
Pet shops also sell choke chains and shock collars, which makes this sort of gear easily available to people who have no idea how to use them, and whilst I disagree with the use of aversives of training, I seriously disagree with the abuse of aversives, which is often the result of selling these things to the uninitiated

Plain__Jane

DBB wrote: »

They're no better, ethically, than a squirty bottle, but can be even more aversive to some dogs because of the noise they make.
Pet shops also sell choke chains and shock collars, which makes this sort of gear easily available to people who have no idea how to use them, and whilst I disagree with the use of aversives of training, I seriously disagree with the abuse of aversives, which is often the result of selling these things to the uninitiated

That's fair enough. I would not be a fan of the shock collars and choke chains myself either.
I read about a type of collar that blows air in the dogs face, like a little gust of air, it's the same idea as the shock collar, you have a remote control for it. If the dog misbehaves the collar will blow air in their face. After you press the remote of course.

DBB

Plain__Jane wrote: »

That's fair enough. I would not be a fan of the shock collars and choke chains myself either.
I read about a type of collar that blows air in the dogs face, like a little gust of air, it's the same idea as the shock collar, you have a remote control for it. If the dog misbehaves the collar will blow air in their face. After you press the remote of course.

That's right. Obviously not as bad as an electric shock, but still unpleasant. These things work on the premise that they're unpleasant.. they wouldn't work otherwise! Again, open to abuse in a big way in the hands of the uninitiated.