Struggling with bandmate issues, need perspective

Firefly2223

Hello,
I am the female lead vocalist and lyricist in a four piece rock and roll band. It is my first real band experience- and sometimes there are things that happen that kind of piss me off, or just don't seem right- but, not having had previous experience, I really don't know what's "normal" in the band world, and I guess I could really use some perspective.
Here are the things that are bothering me, and I would really appreciate some advice and perspective.

I write the songs with our lead guitarist, who also is my boyfriend. We live together. Recipe for disaster, I know, but we love each other and it is generally great. But sometimes I also feel like it puts me in a position of having to just accept his way of doing things- he is more experienced than me, and it sometimes feels like he just tells me how it is and I have to just accept it.

Specifically: I don't really have control of my PA. I have a monitor that is mine, and my mic is also hooked into a PA that belongs to his friend, and was in our jam space before he and I started playing together. I don't really know how everything works with equipment, and so since the beginning I have somewhat relied on him to level things out and what not.
However, I would now like to take control of my own sound. As I am growing and learning as a singer, there are different things I would like to try- adding reverb, or distortion- even just having control over my own volume- but I feel like I have to ask if I'm "allowed" to do this or that thing- even though everyone else seems to adjust their tone and whatever whenever they feel like it. Often my guitarist will even say things like "that's way too much of this," or whatever, and adjust my effects or volume.
Is this normal? As the singer, is it just expected that my sound be at the whims of my songwriting partner? Or should I just get myself familiar with the equipment and be assertive? I feel like if I just randomly said "that's way too much wah pedal," and messed around with his set-up, that would just not be acceptable. Why does he feel like he can do that to me? How am I supposed to grow and learn if I can't experiment?

Volume control is another issue for me, related to not having control of my PA, I guess. I feel like I am constantly screaming to be heard over everyone. Our drummer smashes way too loud, he has no dynamics whatsoever- but everyone else just turns up to match him. But when I want to turn up, I feel like I get guff about it, like for some reason I am just expected to scream through every song as loudly and breathlessly as I can, because "I sound better when I'm pushing it."
Our jams frequently are painful for me- but if I mention this, my guitarist implies it is because of my "weak voice." Every now and then my mic seems to find a comfortable level, and these jams are always so much more fun for me! But it never seems to stay there, someone is always changing it.
Is this normal? I feel like I am damaging my voice and not singing my best because I can't hear myself half the time, and even if I can, it's pretty hard to work on your tone when all you are focusing on is being as loud as possible.
If I say this to my guitarist, he says I am making excuses.

He also seems to indicate that it shouldn't matter if I can hear myself or not, because in a live setting I might have to sing without hearing myself at all. But isn't that why we practice? So that I know how I sound and can work on it?

I guess I just want to know if any of this is normal, or a usual experience, and what I can/ should do about it, if anything?

maccored

No-one in a band should be dictating to anyone else, imo. at the same time, you really should be saying this to your band and getting their perspective rather than to a load of anonymous people on the interwebs.

Nervous Wreck

Your bandmates sound like dicks. If twere me, I'd be leaving the band tbh. When it comes to the PA, if it actually belongs to the guy who's messing with the settings, it's kinda a tender situation. Messing with someone else's gear is a big no. If you want more freedom, you have to take it for yourself. I wouldn't be bothering though; I'd rather find bandmates who show me respect. What's the point of being in a band if it's no fun?

Firefly2223

maccord: It's a touchy situation, and clearly if I thought it was something I could discuss with my bandmates, I would.
I am asking because I am unsure of my footing as an inexperienced person, not because I need strangers to point out the obvious.

nervous wreck: after writing it all out like that and really seeing it, I see what you mean; it doesn't really seem like there's any respect in the mix. I really believe in our songs, and I am trying to think of ways I can try to fix the issues without having a huge personal clash, but maybe the fact that I feel I have to do things that way is kind of ****ed up in and of itself. Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

Nervous Wreck

Firefly2223 wrote: »

It's a touchy situation, and clearly if I thought it was something I could discuss with my bandmates, I would.
I am asking because I am unsure of my footing as an inexperienced person, not because I need strangers to point out the obvious.

Wow. Maybe this bad attitude is part of your problem. maccored pointed out that you should speak to your bandmates because that's the only way you'll get it sorted. As for deriding the idea of strangers pointing out the obvious, well why bother starting a thread on an internet forum? You obviously do want the advice of strangers. And clearly you do need people to point out the obvious because you don't seem to grasp that point yourself. You can ask the opinions of a million different people but the best advice you're gonna get is exactly what maccored told you; discuss your feelings with your bandmates. If you don't feel you can discuss it with them, there's really no point in being in a band with them.

Take the advice or don't but don't get snippy with people for trying to help you.

Firefly2223 wrote: »

nervous wreck: after writing it all out like that and really seeing it, I see what you mean; it doesn't really seem like there's any respect in the mix. I really believe in our songs, and I am trying to think of ways I can try to fix the issues without having a huge personal clash, but maybe the fact that I feel I have to do things that way is kind of ****ed up in and of itself. Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

Sounds like your boyfriend is doing some of the controlling. He's the one person you're 'stuck with' so to speak. Sort out the issue with him and if the others don't go along, just replace them. Respect is key in a band. A typical interaction in my band would go like this:

"I wanna do it like this *plays riff*"
"No, you should do it like this *plays riff different way*"
"Let's try both!"
*try both*
*go by majority vote or try something different entirely*

And no heads are butted.

Firefly2223

Perhaps you are right- maybe I was taking his advice the wrong way.
Not intending to be snippy in return, just didn't feel like it was helpful as I thought it was evident that I don't feel like I can talk to my bandmates. Perhaps that wasn't clear in my original post however.
Anyways, thanks for your advice, I will think about what you said.

Nervous Wreck

Good luck with it; hopefully it goes well and the band can benefit from the clearer air.

Herb Powell

Firefly2223 wrote: »

He also seems to indicate that it shouldn't matter if I can hear myself or not, because in a live setting I might have to sing without hearing myself at all.

Hmm, I honestly don't mean this in a cunntish way, but it sounds like you're in a shiit band. If you can't hear yourself play, you're doing something horribly wrong.

galwaybabe

Two issues at hand here
1. You and your boyfriend have to learn how to be dispassionate with each other if you want to be in a band together (speaking from experience here)
2. You need to learn about the equipment you're dealing with, it's limitations, it's capabilities and, most importantly, learn the language of it....be able to say you need more vocals in the monitor mix, less drums in it.etc. You need to take control of what you hear.

You say you have your own monitor.....you are actually lucky! Lots of bands have to share monitors, for example sometimes I have to share a monitor with our bass player ( I'm a whistle player so very different needs sound-wise) but we hit a happy medium in what we get to hear.

There is no reason why you can't have a specific mix of what you want to hear in your monitor ( very crap mixing desks excepted). Never push your voice just because you can't hear yourself, you will regret it....the voicebox is a delicate thing. Just ask for less of the other instruments in your monitor mix, focus on having what you need to hear, for example bass etc

And finally, always remember that what you hear on stage is something very very different from what the punter hears

Keep the chin up

CaptainSnipes

Firefly2223 wrote: »

How am I supposed to grow and learn if I can't experiment?

for some reason I am just expected to scream through every song as loudly and breathlessly as I can, because "I sound better when I'm pushing it."
Our jams frequently are painful for me- but if I mention this, my guitarist implies it is because of my "weak voice."

Is this normal? I feel like I am damaging my voice and not singing my best because I can't hear myself half the time, and even if I can, it's pretty hard to work on your tone when all you are focusing on is being as loud as possible.
If I say this to my guitarist, he says I am making excuses.

He also seems to indicate that it shouldn't matter if I can hear myself or not, because in a live setting I might have to sing without hearing myself at all. But isn't that why we practice? So that I know how I sound and can work on it?

I guess I just want to know if any of this is normal, or a usual experience, and what I can/ should do about it, if anything?

Here's just my .02€ from a veteran singer.

Many drummers play loud. Fact of life. For the most part they just don't have the skills to play softly. Seldom are they ready to admit this. If they are truly talented the day will come when they will look to improve themselves. Don't fret about it. Wear (better) earplugs.

It's true that sometimes you can't hear yourself on stage. Muscle & skeletal memory are your friend. (Earplugs also allow you to hear your own voice internally.) But to say that it shouldn't matter is utter bull****. Yes, you can learn to do without, but it still matters the world.

Seems to me like your guitarist is coaching you into the singer he wants to have for the band. You at the moment are not that singer. Trouble is, you may never be and it's not up to him. But it's sort of his fantasy. I pray you will not let it be up to him. YOU are the singer and only YOU should decide what & how YOU will sing and the kind of singer YOU will become. It's your voice. Your personality. Your soul. Under no circumstances let yourself be talked into hurting your voice against your will.

The band seems to have adopted rather a "little sister" type of attitude towards yourself. Demand respect or you will never be happy in the band. Don't be a bitch about it.

Study up on PA operation basics and ask the PA dude to give you some time alone with the gear to try stuff out. You will gain confidence.

I recommend using a compressor on your mic channel to boost the parts you sing softer. Dynamic vocals should always be treasured.

Also, as it comes to gigs, to the audience you are by default the leader of the occasion. If the band is patronizing you it will show and the gigs won't work.

raindog.promo

My 2 cent:

1) Buy a PA and find out (on the net) or through a sound engineer how to use it. I'd say asking here or in the recording forum would lead to people posting "basic settings" that would be good to go by. If you want to try effects on your vocals, buy the equipment for it and learn how to use it.

2) It may be better to type out your worries and send them to the band members in an email so there's no need for an on the spot confrontation.

3) Put muffles on front of the drummer to reduce noise and perhaps consider rehearsing in a new location. Bigger room will give you more chance to stand away from the drums and hear more of yourself.

4) Buy more monitors for yourself. positioning them towards you and the other's amps away from you could make the world of difference to how much you hear of yourself/less of everyone else.

5) Your band mates do sound a bit like dicks. Pushing your voice all the time will cause damage and your band members should respect that. It sounds like they might all think a bit too highly of themselves. If you want to be in a decent band you (not you personally, everyone!) have to respect each members role and playing, be able to play dynamically, making room for the other instruments to shine instead of being loudest all the time.

LOTD

Feel your pain about loud drummers who pay no attention to the song, had similar experience myself, not pleasant and can actually lead to some hearing problems. Remember you are part of the band too, you have a right to voice your opinion.

slavetothegrind

On the hearing yourself side i would consider a pair of wired in ear monitors for yourself, at least then you wont hurt yourself in attempting to hear yourself
A good enough cheap pair on thomann are relatively inexpensive and act as attenuators too, a personal headphone amp allows you to control the volume in your ears.

The band as a whole need to consider overall volume levels at rehearsal, it really is not helping to improve if every session is a volume war
As said above drummer needs to get control of his dynamics.

And most importantly assert yourself, enjoy yourself, or find a new band.

Singers are very much in demand!

Good luck!

michael.dublin

been playing in a band for many years, and i tell you, what you are saying dont sound right at all. no respect= no going to last long

can i ask have you been playing togetter long ?

Fandango

Sounds like a lot is wrong. Seems everyone is in control of their instrument apart from you. I know you said you dont feel like you can bring it up with the band but its gonna get a lot worse and more frustrating the longer it goes on. My first band I had a similar situation and it built up to an outburst that Im not proud of. Better to bite the bullet and tell them it is bothering you. Dont have to make a big thing about it but just let them know in a nice way and Im sure they will give you your space. If not, then you gotta think about if its the right band for you. Boyfriend being in the band makes it hard but can make it easier to just have a quiet word with him about it. Chances are he has no idea its pi$$ing you off. From experience, much better to say it now before it becomes bigger than it needs to be.

excalaber

prob missed the bus here but for what its worth it sounds to me like all your instincts are correct......a band needs to support the singer!! and every musician must be able to hear him/herself...

"Our drummer smashes way too loud, he has no dynamics whatsoever- but everyone else just turns up to match him."..........

very common problem!!
Unfortunately it usually takes a while for musicians and especially drummers to learn the importance of dynamics. And that the sound of the band is more important than their instrument..........
Peace and Love xx

excalaber

and you must never ever allow anybody to take the enjoyment out of music for you.

HughieQ

bad vibes!!.....all for one or nothing!!.......doesn't sound right bands need to communicate problems.....especially when performing!!!!!.......hope you work it out ....HughieQ