New Nissan Leaf from €20,990

ei9go

ei9go wrote: »

I see that the 2015 Leaf in the US has it's EPA range increased by removing the charge to 80% from it's software.

That's the 2014 Leaf but I don't know if they only did this on U.S leafs because of the EPA rating.

I expect that and the fact that charging to 100% won't matter because as far as Nissan think, most people won't drive more than 10,000 miles a year or less and/or keep the car more than 3 years.

People keeping the leaf or 2nd hand buyers, that's a different matter entirely.

air

air wrote: »

Thanks.
Looks quite expensive though at $2400.
I saw in the YT comments there is also a 12kW single phase charger in existence.

That would cost far too much, nobody would invest that in any car.

The Renault Zoe has the best charger in the world and can now work at 2kw-44kw, meaning it can take advantage of the full 22 kw of esb non fast chargers.

There are however 0 44kw ac chargers. and the Zoe is still not for sale in Ireland and possibly won't be sold at this stage. And all hints and traces of it have been removed from the Renault Ireland site.

Hopefully Leaf II will at least have a 10kw on board charger, faster charging, more range and a longer lasting battery. Oh and a more powerful option. At least 7 seconds 0-60 like the spark ev.

ShadowHearth

Whats the catch at 21k eu? If its true, then it sounds a god damn great deal. It would be perfect for my needs. A fantastic second car in my opinion.

21k euros is the base price without quick charge which is ultra important and without heat pump.

Heat pump is not an option.

I would strongly advise people to get at least the ev with heat pump and 6.6 kw charger and winter pack. Sv comes with quick charge.

If I'm looking for a 2nd hand leaf I'd want at least the above spec.

air

Deleted User wrote: »

21k euros is the base price without quick charge which is ultra important

Do you mean the base model comes with the 3kW charger or are you referring to DC charge capability?

air

air wrote: »

Do you mean the base model comes with the 3kW charger or are you referring to DC charge capability?

The base model comes (only) with 3 kw charger and (NO) DC fast charge port ! But the fast charge can be added to the base model as an option.

Don't make this mistake, it can't be added.

ShadowHearth

Deleted User wrote: »

The base model comes (only) with 3 kw charger and (NO) DC fast charge port ! But the fast charge can be added to the base model as an option.

Don't make this mistake, it can't be added.

So we found the catch. How much is it then for a full "functional" one so.

air

That's a pretty serious difference all right. The 2011/2012 ones have 3kW chargers but are all DC capable yes?

September1

air wrote: »

That's a pretty serious difference all right. The 2011/2012 ones have 3kW chargers but ate all DC capable yes?

Yes, all can fast charge.

air

Thanks, so Mad Lad is mistaken above in saying the cheap 2013 models have no fast charge DC port.

September1

air wrote: »

Thanks, so Mad Lad is mistaken above in saying the cheap 2013 models have no fast charge DC port.

Mad_Lad is right in case of fast charge port. This port is extra 500 euro on basic trim.

ShadowHearth

ShadowHearth wrote: »

So we found the catch. How much is it then for a full "functional" one so.

The basic "XE" model is 21,690 with fast charger, 3kw charger and no heat pump.

ShadowHearth

Deleted User wrote: »

The basic "XE" model is 21,690 with fast charger, 3kw charger and no heat pump.

And how much with all the needed stuff then? Whats the story with batteries then? Do you own them?

air

air wrote: »

That's a pretty serious difference all right. The 2011/2012 ones have 3kW chargers but are all DC capable yes?

Exactly and come with a much higher spec.

The thinking is that people want the cheap ev running without all the bells and whistles.

It's a good way to go really if people do only 30 miles a day or less they don't really need much more.

The leaf cost 30K in 2011 with grant.

The SVE leaf comes with even more kit than a 2011-12-131 Leaf.

Nissan have stated they will consider offering different battery capacity options for the MK II in 2016-17. By that time the "affordable" Tesla should be available.

ShadowHearth

ShadowHearth wrote: »

And how much with all the needed stuff then? Whats the story with batteries then? Do you own them?

Yep you own the battery.

Go to the Nissan site and the sv model it costs 23,990 and has everything you'll most likely need including fast charge option. But 3 kw charger, I would opt for the 6 kw.

Remember the remote activation of heating and cooling is a very expensive luxury on most cars, mostly not even an option here. And you can't activate cooling on any ice car.

+ the leaf has no gears to change which an automatic adds around 1000-1500 on most cars.

ShadowHearth

Deleted User wrote: »

Yep you own the battery.

Go to the Nissan site and the sv model it costs 23,990 and has everything you'll most likely need including fast charge option. But 3 kw charger, I would opt for the 6 kw.

Remember the remote activation of heating and cooling is a very expensive luxury on most cars, mostly not even an option here. And you can't activate cooling on any ice car.

+ the leaf has no gears to change which an automatic adds around 1000-1500 on most cars.

Well, even at 24k I think it is a good deal.

Sesshoumaru

Deleted User wrote: »

Nissan have stated they will consider offering different battery capacity options for the MK II in 2016-17. By that time the "affordable" Tesla should be available.

I wonder what secondhand UK prices for a Tesla Model S will be like then? I'm thinking of keeping my current Leaf to power my home on night rate electricity during the day time and possibly investing in a secondhand Tesla Model S from the UK (if possible!).

creedp

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I wonder what secondhand UK prices for a Tesla Model S will be like then? I'm thinking of keeping my current Leaf to power my home on night rate electricity during the day time and possibly investing in a secondhand Tesla Model S from the UK (if possible!).

How much would the 2nd hand leaf be worth? Would it be a fairly expensive generator for daytime only electricity use? Plus the fact you have to park an other wise redundant car beside the house at all times.

Sesshoumaru

creedp wrote: »

How much would the 2nd hand leaf be worth? Would it be a fairly expensive generator for daytime only electricity use? Plus the fact you have to park an other wise redundant car beside the house at all times.

I have no idea what it would be worth in 3 years time. Currently we have one car (Leaf) and one bike (Yamaha). I use the bike for my daily commuting needs and my wife uses the car for her daily commuting needs. If we had two cars, I know I wouldn't change to 4 wheels from 2, cars are just too slow for commuting and I value my time too much.

My 3 kids are growing up and in 3 years time I could see the need for a larger car, which I'm thinking could be a secondhand Model S. I wouldn't see the point in selling the Leaf as it will still be running fine, low tax, low insurance and low fuel cost. So whether I wanted it to run my house from it or not, it would be a great second car to have. It just so happens keeping it would let me reduce my day time electricity costs. Leave it charging at night time on cheap electricity and let it run the house during the day time. The odd time I want to use it, I just unplug it and the house switches to mains power automatically without interruption.

I'd also have to see how much the 'Leaf to Home' system cost at that point. I believe it is around 3,000 euro currently.

Sesshoumaru

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I wonder what secondhand UK prices for a Tesla Model S will be like then? I'm thinking of keeping my current Leaf to power my home on night rate electricity during the day time and possibly investing in a secondhand Tesla Model S from the UK (if possible!).

It will take years for the prices to come down, maybe in 8 years it will be worth 25K Euro's.

There are 0 tesla super chargers planned for Ireland.

I expect the affordable Tesla will have a 40 kwh battery. Hopefully a real usable 40 kwh. I doubt people need more than this.

If they could have a 20 kw on board charger then it would make great use of the ESB ac 20kw chargers.

100 kw fast dc charging would be really sweet.

That's what it's all about, the right balance between range and fast charging.

Days 298

I wouldn't be really interested in a electric car but if they really wanted them to take off where they are needed i.e Dublin, Cork and Galway. They should allow them to use the bus lanes.

I'd say once the likes of VW, BMW and some more can push out decent sized fast enough cars it wouldn't take much to sway people in all honesty. The average joe motorists can't tell you how many cylinders his car has but hell sure know the price of petrol.

It'll be interesting to see how the government taxes electric cars if they became mainstream. They may like to appear to promote green but they sure have a nice income from VRT, CO2 taxes and fuel duty.

creedp

creedp wrote: »

How much would the 2nd hand leaf be worth? Would it be a fairly expensive generator for daytime only electricity use? Plus the fact you have to park an other wise redundant car beside the house at all times.

The leaf is holding it's value very well in Ireland but I doubt it reflects it's true value. more like typical Irish dealers would rather have it rot on the forecourt than sell it for a few grand less. I could be wrong.

the idea of using the leaf to power the house is only for emergency use, it's possible that it can be used for renewable storage, i.e thousands of ev's. And they can export a small amount of energy to the grid for peak use.

sawdoubters

leaf would be for around town driving,it wold not stand up well to irish pot holed roads


http://www.carcomplaints.com/Nissan/Leaf/


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/nissan/10389485/Nissan-Leaf-electric-car-long-term-review.html

Sesshoumaru

Deleted User wrote: »

The leaf is holding it's value very well in Ireland but I doubt it reflects it's true value. more like typical Irish dealers would rather have it rot on the forecourt than sell it for a few grand less. I could be wrong.

the idea of using the leaf to power the house is only for emergency use, it's possible that it can be used for renewable storage, i.e thousands of ev's. And they can export a small amount of energy to the grid for peak use.

Not my car and don't know who owns it, but at least privately prices seem quite reasonable!

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Nissan/Leaf/201348219981192/advert?channel=CARS

I would also disagree that running your home on battery power is only for emergency use.

Sesshoumaru

sawdoubters wrote: »

leaf would be for around town driving,it wold not stand up well to irish pot holed roads


http://www.carcomplaints.com/Nissan/Leaf/

Mine has stood up just fine and it has driven along many bad roads. My wife has a tendency to avoid taking the M50 to work and instead take the back roads as one trip on the M50 costs more in tolls than it costs to refuel the car. The only casualty of that constant back road use over the years is the passenger side mirror

sawdoubters

sawdoubters wrote: »

leaf would be for around town driving,it wold not stand up well to irish pot holed roads


http://www.carcomplaints.com/Nissan/Leaf/


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/nissan/10389485/Nissan-Leaf-electric-car-long-term-review.html

I could find a lot more negative reviews about a VW Golf or an Audi A4. And those are real owner reviews. Not some 10 mile so called Auto journalist review.

studdlymurphy

My commute to work is about 100kms, what is the range on a new leaf and what does it drop to over time? Also in winter its cold and dark so heating and lights are needed how much does that reduce the range?
There is a charging station about 10min walk from work so it would be fully charged for my return journey.
Is is workable?

Sesshoumaru

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Not my car and don't know who owns it, but at least privately prices seem quite reasonable!

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Nissan/Leaf/201348219981192/advert?channel=CARS

I would also disagree that running your home on battery power is only for emergency use.

I think that person is importing Leaf's from the U.K. You could get that leaf about 1000 cheaper, though that doesn't include transport and the headaches that it may involve.

Sure you can power your home from the leaf absolutely no problem , but what's the point apart from emergency use ?

One advantage is you could charge on night rate and use it during the day if you're there. There would be no point exporting it because you get the same rate for it during the day as you buy it for at night.

But our average consumption is 6 kwh per day which might take 20 miles range from the leaf based on 4kwh/mile.

So if you charge up on a Friday night and you don't intend to use the car for the weekend then one charge would do me about 3.5 days.

Will the ESB prevent this ? but if there could be a system where you don't export it and just use it for you would be best.

Using renewable energy to charge is also good. Probably for Ireland wind and solar pv would be best. You buy the leccy for 9c/kwh and export it for the same. sad thing is the ESB only allow something stupid like 5kwh mas to be fed to the grid, in Germany I don't think there is a limit, My partners parents have 13 kwp solar. They will always find 1000 reasons why you can't do something in Ireland.

Scottie99

studdlymurphy wrote: »

My commute to work is about 100kms, what is the range on a new leaf and what does it drop to over time? Also in winter its cold and dark so heating and lights are needed how much does that reduce the range?
There is a charging station about 10min walk from work so it would be fully charged for my return journey.
Is is workable?

Is that 100km return?
Either way yes it is possible. The only things that affect the distance - speed, weight,temperature, wind and the heater. Lights are LED, so there's no real issue there. Speed should be kept between 80/100km/hr.

studdlymurphy

studdlymurphy wrote: »

My commute to work is about 100kms, what is the range on a new leaf and what does it drop to over time? Also in winter its cold and dark so heating and lights are needed how much does that reduce the range?
There is a charging station about 10min walk from work so it would be fully charged for my return journey.
Is is workable?

The range can be as low as 60 miles for the MK I Leaf (2011-131 reg) and 70+ for the MK 1.5 with the heat pump.

Heated seats and steering wheel would be advisable if buying new.

Battery degradation is a gradual process, it doesn't just happen over say 1000 charges, it happens from the moment you plug it in for the first time.

A Seattle owner who covered 100,000 miles in 2 years has lost 20% capacity so at about 80,000 miles he had about 12% loss. So that should give people an idea.

The best thing you can do is never leave the battery sitting at 100%, use the start finish timers and it will ensure it charges to 100% just before the end timer so it's ready to go just before you hop in and obviously programming the heat so that it's fully warm when you get in will reduce the kwh taken from the battery for the heater.

Try not to let the battery run very low.

And remember that in 2016 the MK II leaf should be announced, it's anyone'e guess what they will offer. But no doubt it will be a big improvement. My guess it will be available Q4 2016.

Tesla's so called affordable car should be on offer then most likely a 40 kwh battery. This will be interesting.

Unfortunately the Germans have no interest and are well behind, and I'd be surprised if they had anything better than the Leaf II when it comes out.

The only reason the BMW and VW are releasing their electric cars this year is because they have to by law in order to sell ICE cars.