New Nissan Leaf from €20,990

BMJD

Max Power1 wrote: »

They clearly dont work as they are a regression on currently available technology. IE Taken something and broken it (Square wheel anyone???)

I wouldn't consider greatly reduced running costs as being regressive.

I would imagine that the ideal Leaf customer is the two car middle-class family, the main car being the larger-type saloon/SUV/MPV that does the heavy lifting on weekends/holidays/whatever, and the second car is used for short journeys, shopping, etc. Say, Ford S-MAX and Focus; the Leaf could easily replace the Focus when they are looking at new cars. Range is not a problem because when they want a weekend away, or when daddy is playing golf in the other end of the country, the other car can do that.

Most people here seem to only be looking at it from a very narrow point of view.

Tea 1000

BMJD wrote: »

I wouldn't consider greatly reduced running costs as being regressive.

I would imagine that the ideal Leaf customer is the two car middle-class family, the main car being the larger-type saloon/SUV/MPV that does the heavy lifting on weekends/holidays/whatever, and the second car is used for short journeys, shopping, etc. Say, Ford S-MAX and Focus; the Leaf could easily replace the Focus when they are looking at new cars. Range is not a problem because when they want a weekend away, or when daddy is playing golf in the other end of the country, the other car can do that.

Most people here seem to only be looking at it from a very narrow point of view.

This is exactly it. Some on here would rather start a dick waving contest and go back under their "I'm right, I've got proof" rock than actually consider everything logically.
Like I said, there's a place for everything, and the Leaf has a set of criteria that fits a certain bill, like the Dacia Duster has a different set of criteria that fits a different bill, and a Land Cruiser different again, an M5 different again.
You shouldn't have to spell this out on a Motors forum, but alas - ignorance is abundant in here.
I'm not an EV lover, I couldn't give a flying f**k who buys one or who spends the rest of their lives avoiding one. One way or another they're coming down the line forever, and the Leaf makes a lot of sense as you just described, and even some other situations over and above.

Jumboman

I think electric cars are at were mobile phones were in the early 1990s when they were just starting to become practical. Hopefully in 10 years time they will become mainstream.

Max Power1

Jumboman wrote: »

I think electric cars are at were mobile phones were in the early 1990s when they were just starting to become practical. Hopefully in 10 years time they will become mainstream.

Agreed

We need the few guinea pigs/madzers to buy the EVnow (And mobile phones in the early 90s) so that the technology can evolve to such a place where it is useable.

spank_inferno

Does anyone know if there is enough Lithium in this planet of ours to have the worlds car fleet EV?

Mr Benevolent

spank_inferno wrote: »

Does anyone know if there is enough Lithium in this planet of ours to have the worlds car fleet EV?

By the time we run out of it they'll have changed to something else.

stimpson

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

By the time we run out of it they'll have changed to something else.

Obviously.

antodeco

I'd love an electric car as a second car. Are ESB still installing the points for free in peoples homes?

What's the rough cost per 100km in relation to charging?

Also, any ideas if bus lanes will be made open to EVs?

Matt Simis

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

Look lads, the EV is inevitable at this stage. Though it isn't perfect yet and there are still issues to overcome.
Very simply there are two kinds of people, Those who embrace change and those who fight it. 9 times out of 10 change comes about anyway and those in favor of it come out on top and are the happiest.
At the end of the day I don't think that the drawbacks of an EV are that significantly different in number compared to a petrol/diesel car, We have just come to accept the flaws of the internal combustion but have yet to do so with EVs.

I think you were right at one point, but now Im not so sure.
In the last 2 years, the potential for EVs to become a dominant force in a reasonable timeframe have reduced dramatically.


- Consumers identified their significant weaknesses and sales were significantly lower than expected
- The myriad of battery improvements failed to materialise
- The green agenda lost credibility and the environmental impact of EVs became better understood
- Generally poor to luke warm feedback from Fleets that took the chance on EVs
- Thanks to Fracking, the planet now has an abundant source of cheap fuel which is massively more energy dense than Lithium and uses an existing infrastructure
- ICE continues its pace in improvements in range, efficiency, emissions and performance.


2 Years ago, we had more and more Charging points coming online, lots of buzz, announcements and "nearly there" breakthroughs to would finally allow EVs to compete. Didnt turn out that way in the slightest. Every 6mths I re-evaluate the prospect of a fast'ish DIY A4 size EV project car.. a 150kw Electric Motor is an $8000 impossible dream (thats just the motor, not a car, charging system or batteries which alone add $10k minimum), a 150kw ICE is something as normal 15year old 1.8T in a bad state of tune.


They will have a place, but as a one day 5% marketshare proposition (current projections at 2% in the US by 2020 and 3% in Japan). Thats a far cry from the EV proponents dreams.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/12/us-autos-ev-future-idUSBRE95B17T20130612

Max Power1

antodeco wrote: »

I'd love an electric car as a second car. Are ESB still installing the points for free in peoples homes?

What's the rough cost per 100km in relation to charging?

Also, any ideas if bus lanes will be made open to EVs?

Why would they? Are they buses or PSVs?

Perhaps its because we will become more accustomed to seeing scenarios such as "Sorry gard Im only in the bus lane because I have only 5 miles of range left"

antodeco

Max Power1 wrote: »

Perhaps its because we will become more accustomed to seeing scenarios such as "Sorry gard Im only in the bus lane because I have only 5 miles of range left"

Firstly, yes for the point above. Makes more sense!

Secondly, it would make EVs more attractive! Fly into work down the bus lane

Mr Benevolent

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

Yeah, I was running 1kw (using a 36V 10Ah battery) through a 201 rpm 350w Bafang via a 500w controller. Everything else works though, maybe a better motor would be the solution. Problem is cost.

1 kw is decent enough, 1kw in a geared hub is better.

Cost is an issue when going high power, and your choice of batteries gets expensive. A123 LiFeP04 will give you the high discharge rates you need and have excellent life but it will be heavier than LiPo and bigger profile. LiPo needs serious research as if you make a mistake you can burn your house/neighbours house down. RC LiPo gives superb performance and is a lot cheaper but you need a proper RC type charger as you need to make sure all the cells stay in balance. You really need to store these batteries in a fire safe zone. But you can make a very high performance battery for 200-300 euro's, + the cost of the charger.

At high power you also need to reenforce your rear dropouts on your bike or the axle will spin out and can be very dangerous at the very least you can damage the wiring to the motor.

You also got to plan your system and there is always a trade off between power, weight, range and cost. And if you live in Dublin or ride in mainly town traffic a high power setup is useless as people will not expect you to be travelling fast and you will draw a lot of unwanted attention.

If you want PM me and I can tell you where you can get a lot of stuff.

Bigus

From autocar.co.uk
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/nissan/leaf/first-drives/2013-nissan-leaf-acenta-first-drive-review

Nissan also says that the brake regeneration system is now "94 per cent efficient". The car’s boot is also significantly more useful, with bulk of the charger moved to elsewhere in the car’s structure. There’s also 53mm extra rear legroom thanks to a new front seat design. The battery still weighs in at 250kg but, overall, the Leaf is 32kg lighter.

The most important change is probably the adoption of a new heat-pump heating system which Nissan claims uses 70 per cent less energy that the heating system in the original Leaf. However, the entry-level Visia does not get the new heater, which puts it at a distinct disadvantage. Partly thanks to this new heater system, Nissan is claiming that in ‘ideal conditions’ - with an ambient temperature of 22 degrees C - the new Leaf can achieve "105-113 miles in the real world". In a "worst case scenario -10 degrees C - the ‘real world range should be 62-77 miles".

Bigus

Bigus wrote: »

The most important change is probably the adoption of a new heat-pump heating system which Nissan claims uses 70 per cent less energy that the heating system in the original Leaf. However, the entry-level Visia does not get the new heater, which puts it at a distinct disadvantage. .

The heatpump should make a difference .

I am surprised they didn't include a battery heater for the facelift as that would have made the greatest difference but I guess it would have meant too much redesign. The battery can't except a full charge when it's very cold.

@6 deg C 60 mph 10 mph headwind and the heat on for an hour could see range at 59 miles in winter for a new battery. No wind =69 miles

@ 20 deg C that goes up to 69 miles range. No wind = 82 miles

A batter heater would have made a big difference.

I don't have numbers for the 2013 facelift model.

My old commute was 41 miles each way I'd even make it the 50 miles to Dublin City if I had to or Blanch, Cherrywood etc.

I'd need to plug in of course somewhere, Luas stop etc.

If the Government are serious about getting electric cars on the road then they need to address the work place charging issue.

RedorDead

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

For anyone wondering can they make their once or twice per year long trip, this will be the fast chargers along the main motorway network come September this year. They are being 50% funded by the EU, so they have to be in place by September. Many on the map already are.


It's a cross border project so naturally you can use fast chargers in NI.

This is the thing though. I make a lot more cross country journeys than twice a year and i dont want to or need to stop for an hour at a time for charging. Irs simply impractical. Car owners want and need flexibility for long journeys at short notice too. Not every journey can be planned in advance.

galwaytt

If the Government are serious about getting electric cars on the road then they need to address the work place charging issue.

....only if they match it with similar price support for those of us using petrol/diesel....

Sesshoumaru

RedorDead wrote: »

This is the thing though. I make a lot more cross country journeys than twice a year...

Don't buy a sports car as it could cost you a lot on fuel. I also wouldn't buy an SUV type vehicle, I personally don't like them on long journeys. Oh and don't buy a Nissan Leaf either, that car also doesn't suit your needs. It's shocking that one single car model can't meet the needs of every person

Sesshoumaru

galwaytt wrote: »

....only if they match it with similar price support for those of us using petrol/diesel....

I doubt anyone wants a fast charger installed in their work car park. For most people a basic 16A charger would be more than sufficient to charge their car while in work. It's not huge sums of money, I think it could be left to be negotiated between private companies and their employees.

http://pod-point.com/PDFs/POD%20Point%20Home%20overview.pdf



The government just need to do their job so that the legal situation around helping employees charge their cars is perfectly clear.

RedorDead

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Don't buy a sports car as it could cost you a lot on fuel. I also wouldn't buy an SUV type vehicle, I personally don't like them on long journeys. Oh and don't buy a Nissan Leaf either, that car also doesn't suit your needs. It's shocking that one single car model can't meet the needs of every person

My point being that i would think my driving need matches the needs of the majority closer to the EV owner or prospect. IMO EV owners have this utopia view of all other car owners having similar needs to them.

As mentioned above PHEVs represent the immediate future in Ireland as a means forward until battery technology for EVs vastly improves.

Max Power1

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Don't buy a sports car as it could cost you a lot on fuel. I also wouldn't buy an SUV type vehicle, I personally don't like them on long journeys. Oh and don't buy a Nissan Leaf either, that car also doesn't suit your needs. It's shocking that one single car model can't meet the needs of every person

Neither of these are prohibitive though
Still can fill up in a couple of minutes and be away again

Tesla are installing 120 kw chargers and the ESB 50 kw chargers , the Leaf/zoe can't take more than 50kw but it won't be long before cars are able to accept more than 50kw.

When the Model S arrives here , all there will be are 50 kw chargers.

So if you know the future will have more range and faster charging capability is it wise to install 50kw chargers ?

The other problem is Renault came out with a very unique on-board charger capable of 44kw , and they use the motor coils as inductors, really ingenious system.

So if you had a 3 phase supply at home you could charge Zoe in as little as 20-30 mins.

I don't know if fast charging Zoe will be bad for the battery daily and frequently, certainly would be bad if the battery was very warm same as the leaf heat is bad for the battery.

So it's hard to know what way the industry will go, will it be fast a/c d/c charging ? And will the Auto makers in Europe build faster charging cars or will they build them to suit the existing charging infrastructure ?

So in 2014 there wil be the choice of

Leaf

Focus ev not fast charge capable, in U.S, in Europe ?

Golf ev

Zoe , has one of the best and one of the most advanced built in chargers of any ev in the world including the Tesla.. 44 kw capable, 30 min fast charge or less than an hour from any ESB public charger, it makes the best use of the infrastructure.

VW E-up

Tesla model S ?

Chevy Spark ev multiple daily fast charging acceptable. But only 3kw from house mains or non public chargers.

A good bit more choice,

All will have in or around the same range except model s of course.

Tea 1000

RedorDead wrote: »

My point being that i would think my driving need matches the needs of the majority closer to the EV owner or prospect. IMO EV owners have this utopia view of all other car owners having similar needs to them.

As mentioned above PHEVs represent the immediate future in Ireland as a means forward until battery technology for EVs vastly improves.

That is true alright.
But honestly though, does anyone have a Leaf on here? Surely you could get from Dublin to Galway without charging? Lets forget the typical crap of "what if it rains or you want to listen to the radio" bullshít, can it do it?
If so, how much further? Dublin to Killarney? Probably not, but how long would you need to stop for to get you the last few kms? Not an hour anyway, would a 15 minute charge do?
I know all this is inconvenient, but lets use real figures and experiences to see how close or far away they are from a more viable option.

stimpson

Tea 1000 wrote: »

That is true alright.
But honestly though, does anyone have a Leaf on here? Surely you could get from Dublin to Galway without charging? Lets forget the typical crap of "what if it rains or you want to listen to the radio" bullshít, can it do it?

No - it can't.

Tea 1000

stimpson wrote: »

No - it can't.

11kms short from city centre to city centre, in real life, has anyone tried it?

stimpson

Tea 1000 wrote: »

11kms short from city centre to city centre, in real life, has anyone tried it?

At 60 odd kph. At 90 kph the range is halved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf#Range

galwaytt

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Don't buy a sports car as it could cost you a lot on fuel. I also wouldn't buy an SUV type vehicle, I personally don't like them on long journeys. Oh and don't buy a Nissan Leaf either, that car also doesn't suit your needs. It's shocking that one single car model can't meet the needs of every person

Sorry, but that's complete BS. Sports does not necessarily = thirst.

My old 3.0 Porsche 968 used no more juice than a 2.0 petrol Saab 9-5. It used about the same as my current 01 Audi 1.8t.

A current-model Porsche 987 is light on juice: by dint of they being efficient vehicles in the first place - that's the essence of sports ones anyway - they are not guzzling monsters. 2.7l petrol, 180g CO2/km - this is cleaner than say......a 2.0 Ford EcoBoost engine in the 2013 range.......and only marginally worse than a 2.0 Duratorq diesel............

Sesshoumaru

galwaytt wrote: »

Sorry, but that's complete BS. Sports does not necessarily = thirst.

My old 3.0 Porsche 968 used no more juice than a 2.0 petrol Saab 9-5. It used about the same as my current 01 Audi 1.8t.

A current-model Porsche 987 is light on juice: by dint of they being efficient vehicles in the first place - that's the essence of sports ones anyway - they are not guzzling monsters. 2.7l petrol, 180g CO2/km - this is cleaner than say......a 2.0 Ford EcoBoost engine in the 2013 range.......and only marginally worse than a 2.0 Duratorq diesel............

Some families are two car families. Even if they need a long range car quite frequently, an EV (Leaf or new Golf or Citroen Ion or Mitsubishi iMiev etc) could be completely suitable in the second car role. Shockingly some people who live in urban areas might find having an EV as their only car (me) to be perfectly fine. I've got 48,000 kilometers on my Nissan Leaf since I got it and we've had it as our only car since we bought it.

I don't particularly care about the fuel economy figures of sports cars. You wouldn't give your granny a Porsche 987 and tell her it's economical and probably great for the weekly shopping run. Different cars suit different people, that was my point. In any case if you drive a Porsche 987 as it wants to be driven, it won't achieve good fuel economy and you won't buy one just for running down to the shops occasionally.

Sesshoumaru

Tea 1000 wrote: »

11kms short from city centre to city centre, in real life, has anyone tried it?

It could do it driving at 60 kph or at faster speeds if you got in behind a large truck, last one not advisable of course

stimpson

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Some families are two car families. Even if they need a long range car quite frequently, an EV (Leaf or new Golf or Citroen Ion or Mitsubishi iMiev etc) could be completely suitable in the second car role.

A second car usually has to be cheap. Most people would love to have 20-30K to spend on a main car, never mind a second car.

Sesshoumaru

RedorDead wrote: »

My point being that i would think my driving need matches the needs of the majority closer to the EV owner or prospect. IMO EV owners have this utopia view of all other car owners having similar needs to them.

As mentioned above PHEVs represent the immediate future in Ireland as a means forward until battery technology for EVs vastly improves.

Well if you can find where I said an EV was currently suitable for everyone... It would be you who is making blanket statements as to what is and isn't suitable. All I'm saying is, I bought my Nissan Leaf in April 2011, I have family (wife + 3 kids), it's our only car, we've covered 48,000 kilometers and we are still extremely pleased with the car.

I also own a gas guzzling 1995 Ducati Monster 900 sports bike. I love the roar from its carbon fiber exhaust system every morning I hit the starter button. I also love the quiet sophistication of our Nissan Leaf. I don't really get why some people feel so threatened. People who go EV are leaving more dino juice for everyone else to use in their beloved vehicles. You should be thanking us really

Sesshoumaru

stimpson wrote: »

A second car usually has to be cheap. Most people would love to have 20-30K to spend on a main car, never mind a second car.

While the Nissan Leaf is our only car, I do also own a 1995 Ducati Monster 900. It's probably worth 1k or 1.5k at most. I do love that bike though and it's what I use everyday for my commute. So just to elaborate on that, why in a two car house... does the long range car have to be expensive? Logically for most in an urban setting that would be the least used car. Who said anything about buying two 20k cars?

Cienciano

If everyone went out and bought an EV tomorrow it would be interesting to see what the government would do in relation to the shortfall from little motor tax, petrol excise and vat from servicing.
All of a sudden there would be EV tax of 2 grand a car.

I don't own an expensive car, and I'll never spend more than 3k on a car. But I'm surprised more people aren't buying EV's.

stimpson

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

While the Nissan Leaf is our only car, I do also own a 1995 Ducati Monster 900. It's probably worth 1k or 1.5k at most. I do love that bike though and it's what I use everyday for my commute. So just to elaborate on that, why in a two car house... does the long range car have to be expensive? Logically for most in an urban setting that would be the least used car. Who said anything about buying two 20k cars?

For me it's because that's the one the kids travel in and I want them to be safe. In my house, both cars are used when parents are working. Whoever does the school runs takes the family wagon and it's also used for weekend trips.

My second car is about as family friendly as your bike.

stimpson

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

It could do it driving at 60 kph or at faster speeds if you got in behind a large truck, last one not advisable of course

Here you go - a real world 135.4 miles on a 100% charge.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=172369#p172369

At 23.1 mph (37.1 kmh), that's a nippy 6 hours from Dublin to Galway.

Sesshoumaru

Cienciano wrote: »

If everyone went out and bought an EV tomorrow it would be interesting to see what the government would do in relation to the shortfall from little motor tax, petrol excise and vat from servicing.
All of a sudden there would be EV tax of 2 grand a car.

The revenue from petrol/diesel is simply a tax on inefficiency. How much energy is in a litre of petrol?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Energy_content

Energy is obtained from the combustion of gasoline by the conversion of a hydrocarbon to carbon dioxide and water. The combustion of octane follows this reaction:
2 C8H18 + 25 O2 → 16 CO2 + 18 H2O
Gasoline contains about 35 MJ/L (46.6 MJ/kg, or 9.7 kWh/L, 13 kWh/kg, 132 MJ/US gal, 36.6 kWh/US gal)[5] .

A Nissan Leaf has 24 kWh stored in it's battery pack and can do at least 120+ kilometers. I have done over 160 kilometers on a single charge. On a combined cycle a 2013 1L Nissan Micra is listed as using 5L per 100 kilometers.

Perhaps there would be no shortfall as people got to keep their money and spend it on other items/services within our economy.

Tea 1000

stimpson wrote: »

At 60 odd kph. At 90 kph the range is halved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf#Range

That rules that out then, so an 80% quick charge would be a necessity.
The real customers so are people who commute up to 40kms a day each way to and from work, and almost never go long distances.
Outside of that, you'd need a second car. Although most people are thinking that the Leaf would have to be the second car as it is in the category of the traditional second car class, you could have it as the main car for everyday and something like a cheap, fresh 5-series for long trips. Most people are stuck with the idea that the main and more expensive car must be the big one, but you could easily use a Leaf for the daily hack, but that's realistically all.

Sesshoumaru

stimpson wrote: »

Here you go - a real world 135.4 miles on a 100% charge.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=172369#p172369

At 23.1 mph (37.1 kmh), that's a nippy 6 hours from Dublin to Galway.

We went Dublin to Cork in about 4 to 4.5 hours and it requires two FCP stops. One at Monasterevin service station and one at Cashel service station. Going from memory, Dublin to Galway is usually about 4 hours and requires a stop in Athlone. It should be at least 40 minutes quicker, but unlike the Dublin to Cork route, the FCP in Athlone is right in the centre of Athlone in a Topaz beside a KFC. It's a real pain to navigate in and out of Athlone. Thankfully I'll be able to bypass Athlone soon as there will be 3 additional FCP's on that route by September.

Sesshoumaru

stimpson wrote: »

For me it's because that's the one the kids travel in and I want them to be safe. In my house, both cars are used when parents are working. Whoever does the school runs takes the family wagon and it's also used for weekend trips.

My second car is about as family friendly as your bike.

I know what you mean. I also have an extremely safe car for my wife and 3 kids.

http://www.euroncap.com/results/nissan/leaf/2012/432.aspx

Just looks like we have slightly different needs and fulfilled them with different cars. I'm happy with my car and I hope you're happy with yours.

stimpson

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

We went Dublin to Cork in about 4 to 4.5 hours and it requires two FCP stops. One at Monasterevin service station and one at Cashel service station. Going from memory, Dublin to Galway is usually about 4 hours and requires a stop in Athlone. It should be at least 40 minutes quicker, but unlike the Dublin to Cork route, the FCP in Athlone is right in the centre of Athlone in a Topaz beside a KFC. It's a real pain to navigate in and out of Athlone. Thankfully I'll be able to bypass Athlone soon as there will be 3 additional FCP's on that route by September.

The original question was if you could do Dublin to Galway on a single charge.

Regardless, you're talking about half the speed of an ICE for a long trip.

Tea 1000

Tea 1000 wrote: »

That rules that out then, so an 80% quick charge would be a necessity.
The real customers so are people who commute up to 40kms a day each way to and from work, and almost never go long distances.

but you could easily use a Leaf for the daily hack, but that's realistically all.

Naturalblue a boards.ie member covers significantly more distance than this in his Leaf on his daily commute by using the city west charger.

40 kms a day, you're having a laugh!

If I was to commute to the Luas red cow every day I could cover 80 miles a day and that's not even on 2 full charges.

That's 20,000 miles only for work not including pottering around, trips etc.

I wish people would stop talking through their arses just for the sake of it !

stimpson

Deleted User wrote: »

I wish people would stop talking through their arses just for the sake of it !

He's talking through his arse now? You were thanking his earlier posts.

Tea 1000

Deleted User wrote: »

Naturalblue a boards.ie member covers significantly more distance than this in his Leaf on his daily commute by using the city west charger.

40 kms a day, you're having a laugh!

If I was to commute to the Luas red cow every day I could cover 80 miles a day and that's not even on 2 full charges.

That's 20,000 miles only for work not including pottering around, trips etc.

I wish people would stop talking through their arses just for the sake of it !

Relax a little. Deep breath!
Someone said that the 199km range is at 60kph, and that is halved if you do 90kph. You didn't argue with that post, so I figured it must be somewhat reliable.
So my post I said 40km's each way to work, which is an 80km a day run. Most people who do an 80km a day round trip would be at least doing 90kph for most of it. So with a little wiggle room for extra loads on the battery, 80km a day is a reasonable dependable figure going by those figures.
Where specifically are they wrong? And why didn't you answer my original post when I was looking for accurate results before comprising my conclusion if the other posters were wrong?

Sesshoumaru

stimpson wrote: »

The original question was if you could do Dublin to Galway on a single charge.

Regardless, you're talking about half the speed of an ICE for a long trip.

You gave a theoretical time to get from Dublin to Galway, I gave an actual time... Nothing more than that really!

Going back to the original question. The new Nissan Leaf will be produced locally in Europe (UK, Sunderland) and won't be coming from Japan. This is where the new price drops are coming from. In the US they started production in January of the Nissan Leaf and the battery pack in Tennessee. Since then they dropped the prices and sales have gone up.

http://www.hybridcars.com/june-sees-third-straight-month-of-second-place-nissan-leaf-sales-records/

June’s numbers are 315 percent higher than June last year and now at the half-year mark, Nissan reports it expects more to come with 2013 already trumping a weaker year last year.

“LEAF sales so far in 2013 have already passed the total for all of 2012,” said Corporate Communications Senior Manager, Brian Brockman.

Every time I plug my car in on the street I'm approached by people curious about the car and asking lots of questions. I think it's only a matter of time now, possibly won't know until next year. I don't know if the new registration plate system will have the desired effect of spreading new car sales more evenly throughout the year?

creedp

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Well if you can find where I said an EV was currently suitable for everyone... It would be you who is making blanket statements as to what is and isn't suitable. All I'm saying is, I bought my Nissan Leaf in April 2011, I have family (wife + 3 kids), it's our only car, we've covered 48,000 kilometers and we are still extremely pleased with the car.

I also own a gas guzzling 1995 Ducati Monster 900 sports bike. I love the roar from its carbon fiber exhaust system every morning I hit the starter button. I also love the quiet sophistication of our Nissan Leaf. I don't really get why some people feel so threatened. People who go EV are leaving more dino juice for everyone else to use in their beloved vehicles. You should be thanking us really

I don't think most people have a problem with people driving EV's when that sort of car suits their needs particularly given that that are supposedly so economical to run. However, what gets up many peoples noses is that some EV owners expect all kinds of tax breaks and conveniences such as charging at work etc so that they can benefit from this economical form of motoring while the remainder of the car owning population is fleeced by penal rates of taxation. By all means go ahead and buy, use and enjoy your EV but given the supposed advantages of these vehicles why are Govt incentives over an above those available to non EV drivers necessary for EV drivers to take the plunge?

As for non ICE drivers should than EV drivers for protecting their fossil fuel supplies .. where do you think electricity comes from at present?

Now continue to enjoy your EV and one day maybe I'll take the plunge as well ... but I don't see why I should get special treatment from the Govt that is currently crucifying the population anyway it can to incentivise that decision.

Tea 1000

stimpson wrote: »

He's talking through his arse now? You were thanking his earlier posts.

I know, and I'm actually trying hard to be open-minded about the Leaf, cause boards threads on it usually end up with people on one side saying they're all crap and it's a waste of money, and Mad Lad on the other getting overly defensive saying that they're the only thing any sane person could consider.

Balance is all I'm looking for... is that so hard? Won't somebody please think of the children?

galwaytt

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Some families are two car families. Even if they need a long range car quite frequently, an EV (Leaf or new Golf or Citroen Ion or Mitsubishi iMiev etc) could be completely suitable in the second car role. Shockingly some people who live in urban areas might find having an EV as their only car (me) to be perfectly fine. I've got 48,000 kilometers on my Nissan Leaf since I got it and we've had it as our only car since we bought it.

I don't particularly care about the fuel economy figures of sports cars. You wouldn't give your granny a Porsche 987 and tell her it's economical and probably great for the weekly shopping run. Different cars suit different people, that was my point. In any case if you drive a Porsche 987 as it wants to be driven, it won't achieve good fuel economy and you won't buy one just for running down to the shops occasionally.

I'm a two car family, and when my mother comes to visit (68) a sports car is exactly what I give her. Including the 968 when I had them. And yes, it was a daily driver here - and good at it.

You made a sweeping statement about sports cars, and now you 'don't care'. That's what happens when you make sweeping statements, you will stand to be corrected on it.

galwaytt

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

The revenue from petrol/diesel is simply a tax on inefficiency. How much energy is in a litre of petrol?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Energy_content



A Nissan Leaf has 24 kWh stored in it's battery pack and can do at least 120+ kilometers. I have done over 160 kilometers on a single charge. On a combined cycle a 2013 1L Nissan Micra is listed as using 5L per 100 kilometers.

Perhaps there would be no shortfall as people got to keep their money and spend it on other items/services within our economy.

More BS.

Tax on petrol is a form of general taxation to fund central exchequer. The State couldn't give two monkeys about 'efficiency'. If it did, it too would run a fleet of EV's.............the only State bodies that I know of that run EV's are the ESB and An Post. The EV Ford Transit's cost €90,000 each. That's not only stupid, it's a bloody waste of taxpayers money.

And as mentioned by myself and others, when EV's become popular eventually (because I think they will), then you just watch and see how they review the motortax system to bring overall revenue back up to 'fossil' levels.

The State simply can't function without it - and the motorist is a cash cow. Simples.

Tea 1000

Tea 1000 wrote: »

And why didn't you answer my original post when I was looking for accurate results before comprising my conclusion if the other posters were wrong?

What post was that ?

I must admit I'm on too many forums and I got to throttle back, so sorry for biting your head off.

But seriously 100 miles a day is not an unreasonable expectation of the Leaf if you can charge up by fast charge or Luas/Street/work etc.

Sesshoumaru

galwaytt wrote: »

I'm a two car family, and when my mother comes to visit (68) a sports car is exactly what I give her. Including the 968 when I had them. And yes, it was a daily driver here - and good at it.

You made a sweeping statement about sports cars, and now your 'don't care'. That's what happens when you make sweeping statements, you will stand to be corrected on it.

I was making a point that different cars suit different people. That's why we don't all drive the exact same car. But please continue to ignore my actual point and concentrate on your straw man argument