On Provisional for years/test Question

4th horsemen

Hi,

So I have had a provisional motorbike A (25kw) licence for many years now and renewed it last year and applied for the test which I ended up not doing. My provisional licence runs out on 22 august 2013
So I am going to Apply for my Motorbike Test when I renew my provisional again.
My question is, am I exempt from doing the mandatory 18 hours of lessons and IBT?? As I have gotten my provisional years before they decided this new way of testing and lessons.
is it only people who are now just applying for their motorbike provisional that need to do the 18hrs lessons and IBT?

On my provisional licence it says From: 13-07-05 To: 22-08-13
I've been driving bikes most of the time I've had my provisional and drive a Suzuki Bandit at the moment.

Cheers
Martyn

LookBehindYou

4th horsemen wrote: »

Hi,

So I have had a provisional motorbike A (25kw) licence for many years now and renewed it last year and applied for the test which I ended up not doing. My provisional licence runs out on 22 august 2013
So I am going to Apply for my Motorbike Test when I renew my provisional again.
My question is, am I exempt from doing the mandatory 18 hours of lessons and IBT?? As I have gotten my provisional years before they decided this new way of testing and lessons.
is it only people who are now just applying for their motorbike provisional that need to do the 18hrs lessons and IBT?

On my provisional licence it says From: 13-07-05 To: 22-08-13
I've been driving bikes most of the time I've had my provisional and drive a Suzuki Bandit at the moment.

Cheers
Martyn

Martyn,
You will not get a test date for cat A until you complete your IBT.
If you get an a2, you will have to do your test on an a2 and be restricted to 35kw.
The only people who are exempt are ones who have a learner permit since before 1999 and those are unrestricted.

DELTATIP

Similar question too - I could do with a wee bit of help on this
I drove motorcycle s {Kawasaki -ke 100 -125s-suzuki rg250-harley Davidson sst250 s } On a provisional license late 80s to early 90s cant remember full dates and cars ever since - car full license since 1995 -- Do I have to go through the ibt course {wouldnt mind doing it -but would mind dishing out 400e}
regards

4th horsemen

LookBehindYou wrote: »

Martyn,
You will not get a test date for cat A until you complete your IBT.
If you get an a2, you will have to do your test on an a2 and be restricted to 35kw.
The only people who are exempt are ones who have a learner permit since before 1999 and those are unrestricted.

I did get a test date though this year but had to cancel.
I am over 24 so not sure if i need to do IBT.
It's not explained very well on the RSA website.

I will ring them on Monday and see what my options are

4gun

I have the A learners Permit since before the ITB was required< I got my test date for the A licence was then informed that I needed to apply for a A" learners permit or do modules 1,3 and 5 of the ITB to be able to do the A test....
Why couldn't they leave it the way it was for us where we continued to be restricted for a further two years after passing,

Faith+1

4gun wrote: »

I have the A learners Permit since before the ITB was required< I got my test date for the A licence was then informed that I needed to apply for a A" learners permit or do modules 1,3 and 5 of the ITB to be able to do the A test....
Why couldn't they leave it the way it was for us where we continued to be restricted for a further two years after passing,[/QUOTE]

It's an EU directive not the RSA.

4gun

Faith+1 wrote: »

4gun wrote: »

I have the A learners Permit since before the ITB was required< I got my test date for the A licence was then informed that I needed to apply for a A" learners permit or do modules 1,3 and 5 of the ITB to be able to do the A test....
Why couldn't they leave it the way it was for us where we continued to be restricted for a further two years after passing,[/QUOTE]

It's an EU directive not the RSA.

Damn EU...telling us what to do in our own country....We can F**k things up pretty much on our own with out their help...interfering busybodies

Nothing for it but to drop my pants and take the their medicine

4th horsemen

4gun wrote: »

I have the A learners Permit since before the ITB was required< I got my test date for the A licence was then informed that I needed to apply for a A" learners permit or do modules 1,3 and 5 of the ITB to be able to do the A test....
Why couldn't they leave it the way it was for us where we continued to be restricted for a further two years after passing,

So you recon I'll need to do the same then? Module 1, 3 and 5?

I'm all on for road safety etc but 16hrs lessons at least with the added costs of doing all this is not practical for a lot of people, from a financial point of view anyway.

I guess it's no harm at all having un-experienced learners do the IBT and a less demanding one for the more experienced learners but at a lesser cost and not demanding people pay for 16hrs of lessons!!

LookBehindYou

Its 18 hrs now (not 16hrs)
With the old 25kw restriction, you can go ahead and do your test, BUT make sure to go for the test on a bike which is 25kw (restriction cert required) and also make sure that the bike is restricted from max 50kw.
When you pass your test on the 25kw bike, you will then get an A2 licence which will allow you to ride a bike up to 35kw ( that bike will be restricted from a max power of 70kw)

You will not escape IBT training, cos when you want to upgrade to A you have to do it.

4th horsemen

Is it 18hrs of lessons and then the 16hr IBT course?

Roadskill

4th horsemen wrote: »

Is it 18hrs of lessons and then the 16hr IBT course?

No It's 18hrs ibt.
I know its not fair to people who are riding years and all that but why not get the test done and over with instead of being on provisional / Learner Permits for years.
It's not just about screwing everyone over it's about changing peoples attitudes to driving/riding and take it a lot more seriously. As we all know this country has been extremely lax for a very long time as far as this is concerned and the RSA have had to play catch up. Unfortunately this meant introducing one thing after another in quite a short time frame.
We don't like it as much as anyone else as it's cost stupid money to keep up with the regulations but that's life i suppose

4gun

I was looking at the progression chart last night and I think that after passing the A2 you will need only do module 5 and A test to progress

Not 100% sure though.....instructor said you cannot do module 5 without doing 1 and 3, Makes no sense though if you pass A2 you'd imagine it was taken for granted that you would have a fail level of competence at that stage... Be like telling a teacher they have to learn to read before they can start teaching

4th horsemen

On the RSA website it says the IBT is 16hrs!!

Agree'd, The whole provisional for years is a bit of a joke and even I should have done my test ages ago but have been on and off bikes over the past good few years and when I did go to do the test last year, i had to cancel it. So now back on the bike n want to get the licence sorted.
I know it's about changing peoples attitude towards driving and I'm all on for that but yes they are screwing people for money along the way and I'm dreading to see how much it's going to cost me to get my full licence.

Roadskill

4th horsemen wrote: »

On the RSA website it says the IBT is 16hrs!!

Agree'd, The whole provisional for years is a bit of a joke and even I should have done my test ages ago but have been on and off bikes over the past good few years and when I did go to do the test last year, i had to cancel it. So now back on the bike n want to get the licence sorted.
I know it's about changing peoples attitude towards driving and I'm all on for that but yes they are screwing people for money along the way and I'm dreading to see how much it's going to cost me to get my full licence.

There are 2 IBT's. the 16 hours modules 1,2,3 & 4 for the A1 and the 18 hours modules 1,3 & 5 for the A2 & A
Anyone who has IBT completed and wishes to go up to the next permit must complete IBT progression module 5.

4th horsemen

Cheers for the info,
will ring em tomorrow and see what's needed to be done and get doing it and get my licence sorted once and for all

Kungfu

4th horsemen wrote: »

Hi,

So I have had a provisional motorbike A (25kw) licence for many years now and renewed it last year and applied for the test which I ended up not doing. My provisional licence runs out on 22 august 2013
So I am going to Apply for my Motorbike Test when I renew my provisional again.
My question is, am I exempt from doing the mandatory 18 hours of lessons and IBT?? As I have gotten my provisional years before they decided this new way of testing and lessons.
is it only people who are now just applying for their motorbike provisional that need to do the 18hrs lessons and IBT?

On my provisional licence it says From: 13-07-05 To: 22-08-13
I've been driving bikes most of the time I've had my provisional and drive a Suzuki Bandit at the moment.

Cheers
Martyn

Hi Martyn

I have made some enquiries on this as I am in the same boat. A lady from the RSA emailed me the below;

You will have to do module 5 IBT on the Category A unrestricted bike in order to do Category A unrestricted test. You will also have to apply for the New A unrestricted learner permit because your current learner permit is restricted to 25 KW

However, the RSA website, underMotorcycle FAQs says;

Q13 I am 24 or over and currently hold a learner permit in Category A. I’m not planning to sit my practical driving test until after the 19
th January 2013. What do the changes mean for me?


A13

If you are aged over 24 and you currently hold a learner permit for Category A before the 19
th January 2013, but do not plan on sitting your driving test until after that date, you will have the following options:

(a) You can sit your driving test for Category A2 and present your current Category A learner permit at the test. The representative vehicle which you must bring to an A2 test is between 25 and 35kW. However, as your current Category A learner permit restricts you to riding a motorcycle of 25kW, you will be required to present to the driving test with a motorcycle of 25kW exactly. If you pass your driving test, you will be issued with a Category A2 certificate of competency which you can exchange for a Category A2 full licence in your local Motor Taxation Office.

(b) You can apply for the post-19
th January 2013 Category A learner permit which allows you to ride a motorcycle of unrestricted power output. You can then take your driving test by presenting to the test in the representative vehicle which is a minimum of 595cm3 and an engine power of at least 40kW. If you pass the driving test, you will be issued with a Category A certificate of competency which you can exchange for a Category A full licence in your local Motor Taxation Office, and which is unrestricted.

(c) You can apply for the Category A2 learner permit if this suits you, which allows you to ride a motorcycle of 25 to 35kW. You will be required to present to the driving test with a motorcycle of between 25 and 25kW. If you pass your driving test, you will be issued with a Category A2 certificate of competency which you can exchange for a Category A2 full licence in your local Motor Taxation Office.


I hope this helps.

4th horsemen

Cheers KungFu

Yeah i rang them myself today and got the same answer kinda answer, Hard to understand it all as it's a bit all over the place but have 2 options.

So options are, when my licence runs out in august to get an A2 licence for 2 YEARS after which i can do my a test but first doing IBT Module 5. although I am over 24 so i think I don't have to have the A2 licence for the full 2 years before doing the test.

Or I can get the A unrestricted licence (cannot drive unrestricted bike till the training and test is done) and drive restricted bike and do my IBT module 1,3 and 5 a.s.a.p. and then take the test and if pass, drive full power bike.

Will go with 2nd option i think and get the A unrestricted licence and get my training done and do the test a.s.a.p.
She sending me the book that explains it all so will have a read of it.
Will prob just go to an IBT instructor and talk to them on getting my full licence.

Peanut2011

4th horsemen wrote: »

Cheers KungFu

Yeah i rang them myself today and got the same answer kinda answer, Hard to understand it all as it's a bit all over the place but have 2 options.

So options are, when my licence runs out in august to get an A2 licence for 2 YEARS after which i can do my a test but first doing IBT Module 5. although I am over 24 so i think I don't have to have the A2 licence for the full 2 years before doing the test.

Or I can get the A unrestricted licence (cannot drive unrestricted bike till the training and test is done) and drive restricted bike and do my IBT module 1,3 and 5 a.s.a.p. and then take the test and if pass, drive full power bike.

Will go with 2nd option i think and get the A unrestricted licence and get my training done and do the test a.s.a.p.
She sending me the book that explains it all so will have a read of it.
Will prob just go to an IBT instructor and talk to them on getting my full licence.

Just going over your answer here and something does not add up.

If your current LP expires in August and you decide you do not want to renew it as if you do you will receive A2 LP, and instead you decide to apply for new A LP, you will not be allowed to ride any bike on the street until your IBT is done.

Your option is:

Renew the old LP, get the new A2, continue riding no problem. You will then have a choice to either do your test for A2 license or take out the A LP and do your IBT and than do your test on A.

Or, you can do your test on A2, get the full license and then when you are ready do the IBT with module 5, complete it and get the cert and get your full A license as you do not have to do another test.

In any case, your Bandit will have to be restricted in you are going A2 route or if you go for A LP, you must do the IBT before you are allowed out on the road.


Hope this helps.

Roadskill

As your over 24 once you have your direct access ibt done on the new A lp you can ride any bike any power as long as you can insure it. You don't need to pass the test first.

4th horsemen

Cheers Peaunut, I didn't explain it very well as I didn't quite understand fully what the lady was saying and she was more interested in hanging up so didn't bother pushing for long explanation.
I do want to renew my provisional for a lp but was deciding on wether to go the A2 route or the A route.
I will go the A route.

I don't need to get an A2 lp before the A lp!
She said I need to decide when renewing my provisional wether I want to get the A2 and do the training / licence with that rule or
get the A(unrestricted) lp and do the IBT and test that way.

Like Roadskill said, When my provisional is up in August, i will get my A lp and drive my Bandit (which is restricted) and do the IBT so I can do the test.
Roadskill, I didn't realise after doing the IBT I can drive full power even before doing the test but does make a bit more sense in regards to what the lady was saying in the RSA.

Cheers guys

Peanut2011

4th horsemen wrote: »

Like Roadskill said, When my provisional is up in August, i will get my A lp and drive my Bandit (which is restricted) and do the IBT so I can do the test.

Just FYI, you will not be allowed to continue driving your bandit, restricted or not after you get new A LP, without first doing IBT.

Once you get new A LP and do the IBT you will be allowed ride any bike even before the test.

I am sure Roadskill can confirm.

Roadskill

Peanut2011 wrote: »

Just FYI, you will not be allowed to continue driving your bandit, restricted or not after you get new A LP, without first doing IBT.

Once you get new A LP and do the IBT you will be allowed ride any bike even before the test.

I am sure Roadskill can confirm.

Unfortunately if the Bandit is restricted to 25kw then it will fall out of the A2 category on the new permit as the original power is 57 KW. This is more than twice it's restricted power so Peanut is correct.
On the A2 the bandit could have a 35kw restriction fitted which will bring it into line.

4th horsemen

Roadskill wrote: »

Unfortunately if the Bandit is restricted to 25kw then it will fall out of the A2 category on the new permit as the original power is 57 KW. This is more than twice it's restricted power so Peanut is correct.
On the A2 the bandit could have a 35kw restriction fitted which will bring it into line.

I'm talking about the A lp not A2.
I was told when my provisional runs out that I could get the A permit or
the A2 whichever I decided on.
She said if I got the A lp I could not drive full power until I did IBT but that I WOULD be able to drive my restricted 25kw bandit on that. I asked her few times as wanted to make sure I could drive my bandit without having to fork out hundreds on more restrictions and will also need to keep practicing for the IBT.
That is what She said. Will try contact an IBT instructor in my area and chat with him to make sure I've got all the facts right

Roadskill

I know that your on about the A permit and your ok until your old one runs out. When you get the new one however your permit will not cover the Bandit with a 25 kw restriction due to the regulations.
A2 = max 35kw and not derived from a vehicle of twice it's power. so 25kw restriction in a 57kw bike is not allowed.
The old paper permit is now gone so when it runs out in August your in the new system

4th horsemen

Roadskill wrote: »

I know that your on about the A permit and your ok until your old one runs out. When you get the new one however your permit will not cover the Bandit with a 25 kw restriction due to the regulations.
A2 = max 35kw and not derived from a vehicle of twice it's power. so 25kw restriction in a 57kw bike is not allowed.
The old paper permit is now gone so when it runs out in August your in the new system

Where did you get the info dude as the lady said when I get the new one (the A unrestricted learner permit) that I can ride my Restricted Bandit on that and then do my IBT and then do my test for a full 'A' licence.

Your mentioning the A2 but I will not be getting an A2 at all.

Kungfu

Kungfu wrote: »

Q13 I am 24 or over and currently hold a learner permit in Category A. I’m not planning to sit my practical driving test until after the 19
th January 2013. What do the changes mean for me?


A13

If you are aged over 24 and you currently hold a learner permit for Category A before the 19
th January 2013, but do not plan on sitting your driving test until after that date, you will have the following options:

(a) You can sit your driving test for Category A2 and present your current Category A learner permit at the test. The representative vehicle which you must bring to an A2 test is between 25 and 35kW. However, as your current Category A learner permit restricts you to riding a motorcycle of 25kW, you will be required to present to the driving test with a motorcycle of 25kW exactly. If you pass your driving test, you will be issued with a Category A2 certificate of competency which you can exchange for a Category A2 full licence in your local Motor Taxation Office.

(b) You can apply for the post-19
th January 2013 Category A learner permit which allows you to ride a motorcycle of unrestricted power output. You can then take your driving test by presenting to the test in the representative vehicle which is a minimum of 595cm3 and an engine power of at least 40kW. If you pass the driving test, you will be issued with a Category A certificate of competency which you can exchange for a Category A full licence in your local Motor Taxation Office, and which is unrestricted.

(c) You can apply for the Category A2 learner permit if this suits you, which allows you to ride a motorcycle of 25 to 35kW. You will be required to present to the driving test with a motorcycle of between 25 and 25kW. If you pass your driving test, you will be issued with a Category A2 certificate of competency which you can exchange for a Category A2 full licence in your local Motor Taxation Office.


I hope this helps.

I have underlined (b) in the above quotation and draw your attention to it.

Read it carefully. It seems to say ; You may apply for the new A unrestricted learner permit, which allows you to ride a motorcycle of unrestricted power output. You may then take the test.....and so on. From this it appears that you may obtain your A unrestricted learner permit and ride an unrestricted bike on it before and up to doing your test, and that you must take that test on such a bike. And no mention of IBT under this option. I have emailed asking for clarification but that was yesterday and still no reply. It seems that even the licenced testers and RSA staff are not themselves to sure of this?

I will be printing off this advice, with (b) underlined as it is, and when I apply for my new Cat A Unrestricted Learners Permit I will take it along and quote it as back up to my application. I will carry a printout of it in my wallet with my licence in case of being stopped at any point. And I will attach a copy to my test application.

Roadskill

4th horsemen wrote: »

Where did you get the info dude as the lady said when I get the new one (the A unrestricted learner permit) that I can ride my Restricted Bandit on that and then do my IBT and then do my test for a full 'A' licence.

Your mentioning the A2 but I will not be getting an A2 at all.

Ok dude I obviously don't know what I am talking about :eek: That's a problem as I have been training riders for 17 years and by the way all the pictures on the RSA booklets and posters is me too
Anyway let me try to explain in plain English
You are getting an unrestricted A in August but until you have the ibt done on an unrestricted Cat A bike you will be on an A2 as you previously held a restricted A permit.
So this means that you are no longer on the 25kw restriction LP you are in fact under the new A2 legislation (The old LP does not exist anymore) which means that the bandit cannot be restricted to more than half it's original power (Bandit 600 is 57kw), cannot be over 35kw and cannot have a power to weight ratio of more than .2kw per kg
My advise to you is to get your ibt done as soon as you receive your new permit then all of your problems will go away.
BTW the RSA don't always give out the correct info.
I'm only trying to help people understand it as I have been on here for the last several months.
The following is taken from the ibt information booklet

Examples of progression for those with a
Category A learner Permit or Driving licence
If you held a ‘Category A’ Learner permit prior to 19th January 2013 and are age 24yrs or over you may
progress to the new unrestricted category A driving
licence as follows :
• If you have not completed any Initial Basic Training
You must undergo IBT Modules 1,3,& 5 on a motorcycle with a minimum power
output of 40KW and then successfully complete a practical driving test
• If you have previously completed IBT on any type of motorcycle
You must now complete the progression module (Module 5) on a motorcycle
with a minimum power output of 40KW and then successfully complete a
practical driving test
• If you have held a provisional licence prior to 1999 (now a Learner permit) –
without a break in validity exceeding 5 yrs
You may now undergo a practical driving test on a motorcycle with a minimum
power output of 40 KW.
If you are aged at least 24yrs and hold a Category ‘A’ full
Driving Licence issued at anytime within the last two
years and wish to remove the power restriction you may
progress as follows:
• You may choose to wait and complete the period of restriction, or
• If you have or have not completed any Initial Basic Training
You must undergo IBT Modules 1, 3 & 5 on a motorcycle with a minimum
power output of 40KW
• If you have previously completed IBT on any type of motorcycle
You must now complete the progression module (Module 5) on a motorcycle
with a minimum power output of 40KW.
NOTE
In either case the following applies;
1. The Motorcycle must have an unladen mass of at least 180Kg
2. Where an internal combustion engine is used, the engine must be at least 595cc.
3. Where the motorcycle is powered by an electric motor the minimum power
output is 0.25 kw/kg

Please note that from November 2013 the motorcycle used for either IBT training or driving test purposes in Category A, must have a minimum power output of 50 KW.
The minimum power output for a Category A2 type vehicle used for training or the practical driving test is being reduced to 20kW.

4th horsemen

Roadskill wrote: »

Ok dude I obviously don't know what I am talking about :eek: That's a problem as I have been training riders for 17 years and by the way all the pictures on the RSA booklets and posters is me too

I don't know you, so I am basing my replies on info I got from a person who works in RSA to someone on a pc who I never met or know anything about so apologies if I hit a nerve, Could have let me know prior to me having to ask what you were basing your replies on.
anyway, It makes sense what you are saying But is different to what the RSA are saying!
So I won't be able to get an A lp, it will have to be an A2 lp, and will need to fork out on changing the restrictor on my bike as I won't be able to ride it from August? Then do my IBT to get my A lp and then do my test?
I have only one option then as apposed to 2 options which is what RSA are telling me!

Roadskill

You haven't hit a nerve at all don't worry about it.
You can get an A as you are over 24 but until you do the ibt you'll be classed as an A2 lp holder. you need the A permit before you can do the ibt so you should get that first.
1. Get the A permit
2. Do your direct access ibt
3. You can ride what you like
4. Pass your test and your done

Good luck

4th horsemen

Roadskill wrote: »

You haven't hit a nerve at all don't worry about it.
You can get an A as you are over 24 but until you do the ibt you'll be classed as an A2 lp holder. you need the A permit before you can do the ibt so you should get that first.
1. Get the A permit
2. Do your direct access ibt
3. You can ride what you like
4. Pass your test and your done

Good luck

Thanks for all the info, The last 4 points are the nail on the head with regards to me understanding what I need to do in august.
Just got the RSA IBT booklet in post box and read the direct access bit .
Now to ring the local IBT trainer and get an idea of the financial devastation this will bring


Cheers