Boiler in garage?

bp

Hi all,

we are getting a massive extension done and were looking at putting our oil boiler in the garage with a chimney out the roof but a friend said you cannot put an oil boiler in a house.

Is that correct? Will it have to be external to the house?

Thanks in advance

shane0007

You can put a boiler in a garage but certain conditions must be met.

The flue must be if the "room sealed/balanced flue" type, i.e. must be taking its air directly from outside and not from the garage.
"Most" boilers take that flues go directly up through the roof are of the open flue type & are not room sealed.
You must also ensure the boiler has protection from mechanical damage as it is a garage & cars, etc. reversing into tight spaces could severely damage a boiler or more importantly damage it's fuel line.
Are you just moving your old boiler or installed a new one?

corkplumber

I think a seperate compartment ventilated from the ouside is only allowed for conventional flue boilers in garages .

been doing it this way for years. not sure if ireland allows it. but i remember doing the oftec and it was allowed in the uk. someone upto date on the regs may confirm this.

bp

thanks :-)

The boiler will be old (it is six months old) and will be moved into a new room. It has a chimney going out of it and out the wall - currently in a boiler room attached to the house with a chimney.

It will be in a garage in a self contained area with a chimney/ flue (I am probably using the incorrect term) coming out of it and through the roof.

I really appreciate the feed back.

corkplumber

bp wrote: »

thanks :-)

The boiler will be old (it is six months old) and will be moved into a new room. It has a chimney going out of it and out the wall - currently in a boiler room attached to the house with a chimney.

It will be in a garage in a self contained area with a chimney/ flue (I am probably using the inc rrect term) coming out of it and through the roof.

I really appreciate the feed back.

if the flue goes thru the roof it will be conventional. going out the wall at present thru a balanced flue.

it needs to have its own seperate compartment with ventilation from the outside.

however only flue sealed boilers are permitted in ireland in garages. i have fitted them in a seperate contained room in a garage. just check prior with the regs or someone else here maybe upto date on the regs.

bp

Perfect,

thank you Corkplumber

corkplumber

bp wrote: »

Perfect,

thank you Corkplumber

no problem. just check the regs. i fit conventinal flues in garages by creating a seperate roomwith ventilation from outside. BUT CHECK THE REGS FIRST.

shane0007

Open flue appliances in a compartment is allowed but ventilation must be provided.
The allowance is 550mm2 per kw boiler output at high level & 1,100mm2 per kw boiler output at low level.
If the house is pre-2006 you can ignore the first 5kw of the boiler output for adventitious air. If after 2006, then full allowance is given.
So a house prior to 2006 with a 26kw boiler would be 21kw x 550 = 11,550mm2 high level & 23,100mm2 low level.
So 5" opening high level & 7" opening low level.

DGOBS

Irish building regs part J:Section 1 General: 1.2
Any appliance in a bath or shower room or a private garage must be of the room sealed type.

No reference is made to 'compartments' (what your doing would not be considered a 'room' it would be a compartment) in a garage, CF appliances are not allowed, simple.

Compartment definition: enclosed space within a building specially designed or adapted to house an appliance

shane0007

corkplumber wrote: »

I think a seperate compartment ventilated from the ouside is only allowed for conventional flue boilers in garages .

been doing it this way for years. not sure if ireland allows it. but i remember doing the oftec and it was allowed in the uk. someone upto date on the regs may confirm this.

I was answering this query about compartments.

corkplumber

iv fitted them on architects jobs. the last 2 architects jobs i did was as follows..

a door was created to the back of the garage and solid walls built to create room. so it was part of garage. but you could only enter from outside.

the other job. was a room made in the garage. it was a sealed room with fire door that would close, even if you forgot to close it. the room was sealed and fire slabbed. air came from outside.

shane0007

corkplumber wrote: »

iv fitted them on architects jobs. the last 2 architects jobs i did was as follows..

a door was created to the back of the garage and solid walls built to create room. so it was part of garage. but you could only enter from outside.

the other job. was a room made in the garage. it was a sealed room with fire door that would close, even if you forgot to close it. the room was sealed and fire slabbed.

Would have easier to room seal the appliance! Compartments still need a lot ventilation for combustion & appliance heat dissipation.

corkplumber

shane0007 wrote: »

Would have easier to room seal the appliance! Compartments still need a lot ventilation for combustion & appliance heat dissipation.

to be honest shane. if i was asked. id tell them to upgrade to room sealed appliance or fit outside with a balanced flue (if kero).

I had no influence on them jobs other than fitting the appliance. on one of them jobs was the first time i even worked on a tank below ground level.


however if i was to be honest I have myself fitted cf oil boilers in garages over the years and created a seperate room. with the clients agreement of course.

corkplumber

sorry i should have added. the main thing is to notify your insurance provider. tell them you dont store petrol in your garage or have petrol fumes in the garage.

most garages in this country are not fit to be the purpose of a garage anyway. you would want to be houdini to get in and out of your car. i cant see why uk allows it and we dont.

however building a seperate area within the garage and consent from home insurance provider. may not be good enough for the regs. but it would be for me.

DGOBS

I have seen an insurance provider allow an oil tank fitted in a garage directly above the boiler in a stillage because there was a wheel type fire valve fitted!!!

It's the regulations that would be debated in a court of law after the accident, not the he said she said of what's thought to be ok.

If its in the garage, regardless of how it's installed if its CF its clearly not allowed. If there was a fireproof comparent option, it would be included in the regulations.

corkplumber

DGOBS wrote: »

I have seen an insurance provider allow an oil tank fitted in a garage directly above the boiler in a stillage because there was a wheel type fire valve fitted!!!

now i wouldnt even contemplate that:eek:

the best thing to do is create a door from the back of the garage . build it up with blocks and fire seal against adjoining building and fit a loover door. best to keep within the regs.

stooge

DGOBS wrote: »

I have seen an insurance provider allow an oil tank fitted in a garage directly above the boiler in a stillage because there was a wheel type fire valve fitted!!!

That is exactly what we have. Boiler with sealed flue. oil Tank on metal supports almost directly above. Engineer said that its not recommended but as long as there is a '30min' wall between the two then it should pass standards?

ccsolar

Is their not an issue here with the oil boiler flue going so high up, condensation and the like ???
As far as I'm aware and I'm open to correction on this 1 but you could be looking at € 500 + just for the flue
Cc

shane0007

stooge wrote: »

That is exactly what we have. Boiler with sealed flue. oil Tank on metal supports almost directly above. Engineer said that its not recommended but as long as there is a '30min' wall between the two then it should pass standards?

An oil tank stored within a compartment, but it must have a lot of criteria to meet standards & possible insurance "get out" clauses!
It must have a 30 minutes fire protection, this means from the roof & door also not just the walls. You are not trying to contain a fire from the tank but to protect the tank from a fire originating in the house or garage, etc.
The door must be self closing & 30 minutes fire door & frame with fire seals.
The door must be openable from the inside.
The compartment must be ventilated high & low to outside.
Probably a couple of other conditions but would need to check regs.

DGOBS

Hmm. Thought it was a 60min fire barrier, also the self closing door must be openable from the inside, chamber must have 600mm all around for inspection, internal light must be a fire proof well switched from outside, the list goes on and on........opps dont forget bunded, fire valve body within the chamber,

These are base on BS5410 Part1, but only regs here are part J
Remember Oftec is a code of practice not regulation

shane0007

Don't you Hmmm.... me, that's my gig! Lol

I did say I was quoting from memory & my memory ain't what it used to me.

DGOBS

hmmmmmm...mine from memory too!

but ala part J

Chamber - a fully enclosed ventilated space,
bounded by non-combustible 60 minutes fire
resisting construction (see Technical Guidance
Document , including a self closing fire door
wholly above the bund level.

Robbie.G

shane0007 wrote: »

Don't you Hmmm.... me, that's my gig! Lol

I did say I was quoting from memory & my memory ain't what it used to me.

Ooh that told you fight fight

shane0007

DGOBS wrote: »

hmmmmmm...mine from memory too!

Ah, but OFTEC guidelines would be considered as industry best practice & where an Irish regulation gives no guidance, we would need to look at industry best practice.

So nurrr....

DGOBS

Not at all, BS5410 Part one would be used, as it is the standard the Oftec derives from (or part 2 for >45kw)

shane0007

Not sure of your point, BS is UK. If Ireland does not have standard, OFTEC In Ireland is taken as best practice. OFTEC got that standard from UK standard. UK standard is not the reg here but you know what I mean.

DGOBS

No, BS standard would be taken as an equivalent if there is no IS standard, it's a legally defined document, Oftec is just 'good advice' on how to achieve it.

Using a BS standard would be commonplace in an irish court of law

shane0007

Lol, ok you win. I know when I am beaten. licking wounds

DGOBS

all I say is...hmmmmmmmmm

shane0007

Oh yeah, beat me down & then steal my gigs, nice...
Hmmm.....