Ireland's Cheating Triathletes - Kilkee Draftfest. What to do?

P2C · 14-07-2013 11:34pm

I raced yesterday and was off the bike in the top 10. I have been racing for twenty years and never incurred a penalty. What happened yesterday was no different to what I have witnessed at any national series race this year. In fact rosses point had larger groups. Mullagmore was blatant. i ended up biking kilkee for 30k on my own looking at a group in the top 15 ahead of me. In Liam ball a small pack formed in the top few trying to pace of first place. The one thing as a rider I only see this stuff split second as I pass. I am a TO and a ref so I know the rules

Yesterdays race dynamic was different in a few ways. 285 people in the one wave, no outstanding swimmers, glass conditions on the lake, 1 minute separated the top 50 competitors out of the water. A massive group hitting the bike at the same time. A lot of fellas with full aero set up hitting the bike at the same time. Make no mistake about it the worst drafting took place on the outward leg as 5/6 fast bikers were moving thought some of the faster swimmers/weaker bikers. Thats when there was a peloton that billy referred to I think. Just after the turnaround he would of met the large drafting group. That group split up slightly after the turnaround

I absolutely f....ked a few fellas out of it for blatant drafting. I mean jumping from the inside line onto the wheel of a passing cyclist. You know who you are because the guilty look on your faces said it all. None of these boys with the exception of 1 made the top 10 of the bike.

There was one clear cyclist out front and another in chase. Two other really fast bikers moved swiftly thru a pack of bikers and around 11 k passed the 2nd biker. At around 12 k to 20 k that group and the group behind had a motor bike marshal right behind them. They biked the last 8 k lined out. They got a gap to the next group. there was about 50 meters between riders 2/3/4 paceline and the riders 5/6/7. I was approx rider 8 probably 20 meters behind. It looked like wheel sucking in the 5/6/7 group and one rider remonstrated with the MO. The average speeds were very high on the way back. The pulse lad, very good athlete was in the 5/6/7 group was always at the front.

There was no peloton in the top 10 the reason it all reformed was because of a blockage on the road. Most of the guys were in lipping there shoes way to early and I was able to close a 50m gap while crossing the bridge and on the way thru the neutral zone.

If the group 2/3/4 were drafting it was done for maximum 8k. It looked like a pace line and there were 3 very good bikers in that group. I could not see clearly so I won't make any assumptions but a MO sat on that group for 3k and never got involved.

In the group 5/6/7 looked like drafting was going on because of the pulse lad was remonstrating with the marshal. Once the marshal pulled up they were riding a pace line after that.

It's very annoying for someone to pop a photo on Facebook and basically call everyone except the first rider cheats. Stating based on previous times and performances that eyebrows should be raised. I think those comments and others are not at all helpful. The top 3 on the podium are all multiple race winners and have had podiums at national level races including championships. I don't think riders 2/3/4 really need to draft

I think race organisers/ TI need to develop a system that uniquely grade athletes in relation to their swim/ finish times from grade 1 to 10 and split grade up into different heats. The maximum wave ratio was ignored yesterday the guidelines suggest much smaller waves

johnruns · 15-07-2013 8:07am

I raced the Twoprovinces on sat it was an out and back bike course so I was able to see the drafting and if I was Mccormack or Horan Id be rightly pissed off with the result, at the 14k point I saw 3guys in the top five working together and then a group of 8 from about 7th to 15th all working together and a motorbike offical drove by and did nothing it was a farce:mad:

hardCopy · 15-07-2013 8:13am

Swinford seemed a lot better than other races I've been at this year. I had a slow T1 and ended up passing people for most of the cycle.

I didn't see any big packs or trains but did spot two instances.

I came across one group of three riders in a bunch taking up the whole hard shoulder of the N5 at about 65-70KM. The rider in front of me got stuck trying to overtake and ended up with a bunch of 4, by the time I caught them I ended up having to pass them in the main driving lane and attack up a hill. (I only thought about it afterwards but they may have just been out for a Sunday spin on the N5, I can't remember noticing numbers on their backs)

I saw a male and female pair who seemed to be doing up and overs at about 80KM a Motorbike Offical rolled up alongside and told them to separate, they did eventually separate after some correspondence between the male cyclist and the MO, as soon as the MO drove off your man drops back to let his friend back onto his wheel. When we came to the crest of the next hill the MO was pulled in at the side of the road watching them come up the hill, the girl ended up dropping him on the next hill after that.

He tried to draft off me after I passed him. Then he tried to overtake me without looking over his shoulder and nearly got creamed by a car.

EDIT: I did't get his number but based on the bike splits and where I passed him, it appears he was given a 5 minute penalty, fair play to the MO.

Bambaata · 15-07-2013 9:33am

NorthernRaider wrote: »

That's ballsy! What has been the general reaction?

Sorry i might not have been too clear, i didnt at Rosses Point but will in future. I did have a word with the moto official at Rosses Point as he passed me as i was sitting up for a few k waiting on a marshal to sort them as the few times i surged past them they worked together to come around me and i am not going to draft no matter what.

I do generally make my feelings very well known when on the course and have fcuked out a good few guys a good few times. They never respond which shows they knew exactly what they were at.

I do agree that picture is misleading, groups will come together coming into transition but there isnt really an advantage being at at that point as most would be soft pedalling/freewheeling.

couerdelion · 16-07-2013 7:46am

Just in case there's still a belief that this issue isn't being taken seriously, TI have sent around another email to officials highlighting that drafting is an issue at races.

They have asked TO's to give a quick demo of the drafting zone at the race briefing and for MO's to be less lenient which I think is the right thing to do.

There should be no excuses that people don't know the correct distance or didn't know they couldn't draft.

tunney · 16-07-2013 8:11am

couerdelion wrote: »

Just in case there's still a belief that this issue isn't being taken seriously, TI have sent around another email to officials highlighting that drafting is an issue at races.

They have asked TO's to give a quick demo of the drafting zone at the race briefing and for MO's to be less lenient which I think is the right thing to do.

There should be no excuses that people don't know the correct distance or didn't know they couldn't draft.

I even heard they are going to have a committee look at the rules and have a discussion group about it. Impressive

speedyj · 16-07-2013 8:32am

Would cyclists with cameras work at all? Would be fun to watch the youtube draftfest channel afterwards. Hell Facebook might even automatically tag some of them

Kurt Godel · 16-07-2013 8:35am

couerdelion wrote: »

Just in case there's still a belief that this issue isn't being taken seriously, TI have sent around another email to officials highlighting that drafting is an issue at races.

They have asked TO's to give a quick demo of the drafting zone at the race briefing and for MO's to be less lenient which I think is the right thing to do.

There should be no excuses that people don't know the correct distance or didn't know they couldn't draft.

To be honest I think this will be a big help. Last two races I did, Pikeman and Lanesboro, had very similar straight out-and-back bike routes, where any drafting would be obvious. Pikeman briefing was very clear and very vocal on making sure everyone knew what the draft rules were, how wide you should stay, etc. Lanesboro briefing didn't stress this emphasis on draft rules as much (bigger crowd, people talking, harder to hear maybe?), and there was lots of drafting. It can be easy to get caught up in a tight bunch for a few km and "forget" the drafting zone rules; drilling it home to everyone at briefing will keep it fresh in people's minds.

(There's a forest I run in, lots of dog walkers, and lots of dogsh*t. Every so often someone puts up a sign at the entrance, "Please pick up after your dog", and there's an immediate improvement. Whenever the sign gets ripped down, people are back to their old habits. Shouldn't be like that, but that's folk for ya).

longshank · 16-07-2013 8:35am

P2C wrote: »

Yesterdays race dynamic was different in a few ways. 285 people in the one wave, no outstanding swimmers, glass conditions on the lake, 1 minute separated the top 50 competitors out of the water. A massive group hitting the bike at the same time. A lot of fellas with full aero set up hitting the bike at the same time. Make no mistake about it the worst drafting took place on the outward leg as 5/6 fast bikers were moving thought some of the faster swimmers/weaker bikers. Thats when there was a peloton that billy referred to I think. Just after the turnaround he would of met the large drafting group. That group split up slightly after the turnaround......

.....I think race organisers/ TI need to develop a system that uniquely grade athletes in relation to their swim/ finish times from grade 1 to 10 and split grade up into different heats. The maximum wave ratio was ignored yesterday the guidelines suggest much smaller waves

again as per Athy, HOW etc. too many competitors on the road, organisers really do have to take some responsibility for creating the environment for cheats to thrive.
what about marking 10m zones on the road?, would help to remind everyone. If on a straight road it could also be used with stationary marshals. So long as they could see for 15sec after the zone they know if they are passing or drafting. Would definitely improve awarenes.

Green&Red · 16-07-2013 2:30pm

I was in Lanesboro Saturday and it was a very quick and busy course. After about 5k I was passed by a lad and then a second fella, who turned and told me I needed to drop back, fair enough, I would argue that I thought ur man was quick enough that I would be the 10m back without slowing myself down, I know the onus is on me and that was my judgement call but either way I took the advice in the manner it was intended, there was no agression. the seocnd lad then overtook ur man in front of me and we sat like that in train, the lead fella opening up slowly on the middle who was opening up slowly on me. That was until we got to a hill (there were only maybe 6 inclines for the whole course) at which point I was able to catch and pass both of them, back to the flats or descents they both overtook me again. this was how the race went, we all came out of T2 together. At no stage did any of us draft although by the very action of overtaking all three of us got a small benefit. Thats the way the course played out and maybe if someone had passed us at any stage they would have said we were working together, where all three of us were actively trying not to draft.

Mr Tango · 16-07-2013 3:42pm

Kurt Godel wrote: »

(There's a forest I run in, lots of dog walkers, and lots of dogsh*t. Every so often someone puts up a sign at the entrance, "Please pick up after your dog", and there's an immediate improvement. Whenever the sign gets ripped down, people are back to their old habits. Shouldn't be like that, but that's folk for ya).

Maybe some big signs every few km on the bike route (e.g. the for sale sign type of thing) stating in big letters "DRAFTING IS CHEATING". Cheap and might make some people take note. You will always get the cheaters though.

gilleek2 · 17-07-2013 5:42pm

longshank wrote: »

again as per Athy, HOW etc. too many competitors on the road, organisers really do have to take some responsibility for creating the environment for cheats to thrive.
what about marking 10m zones on the road?, would help to remind everyone. If on a straight road it could also be used with stationary marshals. So long as they could see for 15sec after the zone they know if they are passing or drafting. Would definitely improve awarenes.

In Kona last year they used existing road markings that coincidentally happened to be 12 metres apart. I'd imagine 3 white lines wouldnt be that far off being 10 metres. It would be a pretty easy way to see if people are drafting.

hardCopy · 17-07-2013 6:52pm

gilleek2 wrote: »

In Kona last year they used existing road markings that coincidentally happened to be 12 metres apart. I'd imagine 3 white lines wouldnt be that far off being 10 metres. It would be a pretty easy way to see if people are drafting.

Written in small writing on the arse of your tri-suit:

"If you can read this you're a cheating baxtard. Now stop staying at my arse, you creep"

gilleek2 · 17-07-2013 7:52pm

hardCopy wrote: »

Written in small writing on the arse of your tri-suit:

"If you can read this you're a cheating baxtard. Now stop staying at my arse, you creep"

You're gonna need a pretty big arse for all that text to fit.

BTH · 17-07-2013 8:02pm

gilleek2 wrote: »

You're gonna need a pretty big arse for all that text to fit.

No problem to you Kev

gilleek2 · 17-07-2013 8:53pm

BTH wrote: »

No problem to you Kev

Cheeky!

promethius · 17-07-2013 9:41pm

an upcoming triathlon got the correspondence mentioned earlier from TI and as a result increased the number of waves to prevent excess traffic out of T1 and less liklihood/opportunity for drafting.

sconhome · 21-07-2013 3:38pm

Simple solution. Video cameras on bikes (did I say this before?). An appeal of DQ costs you €20-30, video proof would pay for itself in no time.

Personally I'm tired of all the rule breaches. You play the sport forllow the rules no matter how trivial or petty it may seem to you. In Humbert I chased a group of 4 for about 10k before I caught them. A marshal drove up and simply spread them out rather than penalties or stop/go or DQ. They were blatantly in breach of the rules and cheated.

mrbungle · 21-07-2013 4:29pm

amphkingwest wrote: »

Simple solution. Video cameras on bikes (did I say this before?). An appeal of DQ costs you €20-30, video proof would pay for itself in no time.

Personally I'm tired of all the rule breaches. You play the sport forllow the rules no matter how trivial or petty it may seem to you. In Humbert I chased a group of 4 for about 10k before I caught them. A marshal drove up and simply spread them out rather than penalties or stop/go or DQ. They were blatantly in breach of the rules and cheated.

Local tri yesterday, a girl I tracked after as she was drafting like a 10,000 hour expert, won her age group and was also place very vey high overall, I won't say what place. Pretty disheartening in general.

catweazle · 21-07-2013 9:10pm

How did Beast of the East go for the drafting - they are not displaying any penalties on their results?

However the bare torsos penalties are loud and proud on the results sheet of the National Aquathon - triathlon Ireland are getting the word out

Bare torsos will be named and shamed

zico10 · 22-07-2013 5:48am

catweazle wrote: »

How did Beast of the East go for the drafting - they are not displaying any penalties on their results?

The results provide far more daming evidence of drafting having taken place than some of the photos on here have done.

Just because everybody's drafting doesn't make it okay. The same is said about drugs in cycling.

Oryx · 22-07-2013 6:00am

catweazle wrote: »

How did Beast of the East go for the drafting - they are not displaying any penalties on their results?

From my pov it was a crowded course. The hills kept bringing packs of cyclists back together. I was far from the pointy end so didn't really see how the top guys behaved. But there were fast packs moving together, but the brief glimpse I got didn't show if this was temporary or delibrrate. I saw no draft busters but they did say they would be focusing mainly on the top 20 riders.

couerdelion · 22-07-2013 7:34am

catweazle wrote: »

How did Beast of the East go for the drafting - they are not displaying any penalties on their results?

It didn't seem too bad. Odd time 4-5 riders appeared to be together coming towards me but I couldn't tell if it was temporary or because they had hit a hill. I didn't see any draft groups going the same way as me.

NorthernRaider · 23-07-2013 5:20pm

I see Shane Scully has some observations on drafting on his blog (he comes clean on his drafting past!).

Honest and interesting observations as usual - not sure if linking is allowed (nor if I know how!)?

shotgunmcos · 24-07-2013 8:56am

NorthernRaider wrote: »

I see Shane Scully has some observations on drafting on his blog (he comes clean on his drafting past!).

Honest and interesting observations as usual - not sure if linking is allowed (nor if I know how!)?

http://www.shanescully.com

Interesting candid blog.
Agree with the sentiment in this thread that banning for x races or y months is the way to go. However the nature of waves, wind, crap roads, tight courses etc.. doesn't make it possible to avoid clusters. Having said that there is simply no excuse for the pointy end of the field. I feel that bans alone won't do it. Ban yes, but offer something back by having a solid ranking structure that could have a Top 50 wave in the bigger triathlons. I'd also favour a women's only wave too as the ladies are just as guilty as the lads. (From a marshalling point of view) sorry ladies !

Huff n Puff · 24-07-2013 10:49am

In the top 20, the good swimmers are always likely to draft a little when the faster bikers come along. This has been a problem for a long time. You see this with the men and women and you used to see it a lot with the TI juniors (before they grew up and started kicking ass). You might only get a tow for 20 seconds before being blown out but at least that is 20 seconds.

There is a technique to drafting where you won't get pinged unless you are stupid about it and tuck in on someone's wheel. 'Pace line' in a lot of instances is the new word for drafting. People in pace lines move in and out of the draft zone all the time. I don't know how the hell these super bunches are getting away with it though.

Bunches have always been there but they are far more likely to occur now. As others have said - it can be hard to avoid it due to the growing popularity of the sport. The roads are often packed so what are you going to do?

Many people claim to be whiter than white on this issue especially on this forum, but I would have my doubts. Most people have drafted at some stage in their triathlon career whether they care to admit it or not.

I would hate to be a draft marshall and can fully understand the reluctance to penalise people. The levels of anger shown by some competitors is astonishing. The bare face lying that goes on as well is ridiculous - you would swear nobody drafts in Ireland - it's always someone elses fault. If you get caught for drafting then you can be pretty sure that something was going on at some stage and throwing your toys out of the pram is not the right reaction. The right answer is always to take your punishment and get out on your bike more so that you don't need to do it again.

Eamon Horgan used to draft marshall at the HOTW and he was excellent at the job. He was an experienced triathlete and took no crap from anyone and would have no bother pulling in full groups. He rightly pulled me over for a roadside penalty maybe 5 years ago and I accepted the punishment and got on with it. That is the type of draft marshalling needed.

In recent years I have been race director of our own local race and I have had to make calls on drafting. This drafting has often involved podium positions and I am not proud to say that I tend to bottle the decision everytime as everyone swears on their mother's grave that they are innocent. It is way easier to do nothing and that is part of the problem.

tunney · 24-07-2013 11:01am

Pacelines are synonymous with PROs in IM racing. Its part of the game. Rightly so.

However a key mistake that you have in your analysis is that pace lines in WTC racing are bound by different rules. Enter the draft zone then you pass. You cannot drop back.

What you have described is plain old drafting.

Eamo is a great bloke alot of time for him. If there were more RDs and officals like him then the problem would go away. But there aren't most avoid confrontation and that enables the cheaters. I personally do know the hassle that confronting cheats can cause, but that doesn't know it shouldn't be done.

Huff n Puff · 24-07-2013 12:03pm

tunney wrote: »

Pacelines are synonymous with PROs in IM racing. Its part of the game. Rightly so.

However a key mistake that you have in your analysis is that pace lines in WTC racing are bound by different rules. Enter the draft zone then you pass. You cannot drop back.

What you have described is plain old drafting.

Eamo is a great bloke alot of time for him. If there were more RDs and officals like him then the problem would go away. But there aren't most avoid confrontation and that enables the cheaters. I personally do know the hassle that confronting cheats can cause, but that doesn't know it shouldn't be done.

Sound lad alright.

Yes I am describing the term pace line as a code word for drafting in Ireland. It is definitely open to more abuse here, but it is open to abuse at all levels.

When I talk about moving in and out I mean barely in and barely out of the draft zone. To such an extent that a draft marshall will find it very hard to make a call. I believe this goes on at all levels of the sport as it is very hard to cycle at the draft box limit for mile after mile without encroaching by the odd metre every now and then. There might be a rule that says you have to overtake but if refs can't spot the encroaching then there is no need to overtake.

I am pretty sure that there is still a very small drafting benefit at the legal pace line limit. So even at the legal limit you can say they are drafting.

longshank · 24-07-2013 12:13pm

Huff n Puff wrote: »

Sound lad alright.

Yes I am describing the term pace line as a code word for drafting in Ireland. It is definitely open to more abuse here, but it is open to abuse at all levels.

When I talk about moving in and out I mean barely in and barely out of the draft zone. To such an extent that a draft marshall will find it very hard to make a call. I believe this goes on at all levels of the sport as it is very hard to cycle at the draft box limit for mile after mile without encroaching by the odd metre every now and then. There might be a rule that says you have to overtake but if refs can't spot the encroaching then there is no need to overtake.

I am pretty sure that there is still a very small drafting benefit at the legal pace line limit. So even at the legal limit you can say they are drafting.

I don't think the situation you describe about encroaching in and out of draft zone (a difficult situation to avoid if you are behind someone of equal ability) is the one that is annoying people. I think the problem situations are a lot more obvious and intentional than that!

NorthernRaider · 24-07-2013 12:27pm

Interesting thoughts! Personally, I think the point about pace lines is a fair one. I suspect that most people are 7/8m back, so officially drafting, but probably believing they're not. It can be hard to stay at 10m particularly if battling somebody of similar ability.

To be honest, this doesn't exercise me too much as the person behind is making an effort to respect the rules and it gives the leader some chance to break away.

It's the brazen jumping on wheels and orchestrated 'up and overs' that to me is the major problem!

tunney · 24-07-2013 12:30pm

NorthernRaider wrote: »

Interesting thoughts! Personally, I think the point about pace lines is a fair one. I suspect that most people are 7/8m back, so officially drafting, but probably believing they're not. It can be hard to stay at 10m particularly if battling somebody of similar ability.

To be honest, this doesn't exercise me too much as the person behind is making an effort to respect the rules and it gives the leader some chance to break away.

It's the brazen jumping on wheels and orchestrated 'up and overs' that to me is the major problem!

If you aren't sure you are 10m back, stay 12m. Simple.

I used to pace legally but always more than the limit to account for not being able to accurately judge 10m.

If you dip to 7-8m repeatedly then you've broken the rules and are a cheat.

longshank · 24-07-2013 12:51pm

tunney wrote: »

If you aren't sure you are 10m back, stay 12m. Simple.

I used to pace legally but always more than the limit to account for not being able to accurately judge 10m.

If you dip to 7-8m repeatedly then you've broken the rules and are a cheat.

I know this is being pedantic but anyway - if you can't accurately judge 10m how to you judge 12m?

Huff n Puff · 24-07-2013 1:16pm

longshank wrote: »

I don't think the situation you describe about encroaching in and out of draft zone (a difficult situation to avoid if you are behind someone of equal ability) is the one that is annoying people. I think the problem situations are a lot more obvious and intentional than that!

I agree. There are different degrees of cheating. One is far less subtle (and more annyoing) than the other but both involve drafting and both are common. The further up the field in Ireland you go the more likely you are to encounter 'paceline' drafting issues instead of bunch formation.

Strangely, I enjoy hearing about these large packs on the chase. I am always far more worried about the lads 'pacelining' ahead of me on the road.

Tunney - fair play to you. Racing in Ireland: Have you ever been caught by a pack of say 15+ people - if so have you let them go? That takes some inner strength to pull on the brakes to actively try to get out of a bunch slipstream.

Fazz · 24-07-2013 2:46pm

In my opinion there's 2 issues TI need to address.

1 - demo the 10m gap in race briefing so athletes get a visual and none of this 7m nonsense.

2 - clarify in race briefing the 5sec to get out of draft zone when passed rule.

I've seen copious amounts of the above this season and have a relatively fair view as have been coming from a slower swim with a strong bike split.

I've been the victim of 2 above and even by half honest riders who as I passed them tried to repass me seconds later as they got my draft, didn't tuck out then decided to try pass.
I was passed a couple times like this and I had to drop 10m back. Doing so and looking at 50 watts less then put a rocket up me to move ahead again.

Hearing a flapping noise for some time like it was coming from my bike only to realise after being passed it was from the bike now in front was also quite funny!

I've also witnessed and called out drafters as I've passed them, either saying too close or you're drafting.
On one such occasion I spoke after the race to be told it was simply timing as i passed that looked like an offence.
Thing is I had followed that group taking near 5mins to catch and pass them so it wasn't innocent.

Kilkee was quite bad and actually worse by a group of 3-4 within the top 15.

Speaking to one of these guys afterwards it became apparent he didn't know the 10m rule (thought it was less), didn't know the drop out rule and had a poor perception of exactly how close he was riding - 3-4m instead of his "legal 7m"...

Others just shrug their shoulders couldn't care less obv.

Better race briefings of the above combined with better marshals and more importantly dedicated marshals to the top 10/15 shouldn't be too hard at least for mens race and ensures podiums/prizes are fair.

Good luck to the marshals at DCT this year eh!

Stop and go's are prob the most practical to apply on the course.

Another thing I think I read a few pages back a marshal somewhere posted 20-30 seconds to get out of draft if passed...
if the marshals don't even know the rules then there's no hope anyway..

The rules are:
- 20 secs to pass
- 5 secs to get 10m back when passed. Cannot repass straight away.

Also I thought rules were 12m not 10m but maybe that's the front wheel of leading or something.

peter kern · 24-07-2013 4:21pm

Huff n Puff wrote: »

I agree. There are different degrees of cheating. One is far less subtle (and more annyoing) than the other but both involve drafting and both are common. The further up the field in Ireland you go the more likely you are to encounter 'paceline' drafting issues instead of bunch formation.

Strangely, I enjoy hearing about these large packs on the chase. I am always far more worried about the lads 'pacelining' ahead of me on the road.

Tunney - fair play to you. Racing in Ireland: Have you ever been caught by a pack of say 15+ people - if so have you let them go? That takes some inner strength to pull on the brakes to actively try to get out of a bunch slipstream.

yes dave did in a duathlon where the top 5 or so got a penality
and he dropped back.

tunney · 24-07-2013 4:36pm

peter kern wrote: »

yes dave did in a duathlon where the top 5 or so got a penality
and he dropped back.

No Peter that's simply not true. Please try to control your habit of making stuff up.

peter kern · 24-07-2013 4:59pm

http://www.irishtriathlon.com/index.php/2011/02/fingal-tri-duathlon-balbriggan/

Trig1 · 24-07-2013 5:40pm

I'm racing "little bo peep tri" at the weekend and just got this email from triathlon ireland...looks like they are trying to do something about the issues...

Dear Competitor

As you are due to take part in a National Series event this weekend, in which drafting is illegal, please see the below information about drafting to ensure that you do not unwittingly cause yourself to receive a penalty. Should you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact our office.

Drafting

To draft is to enter the bicycle or vehicle drafting zone.

Drafting from another athlete or motor vehicle is forbidden. Athletes must reject attempts by others to draft.

An athlete is entitled to any position on the course, provided they get to that position first and without contacting others. When taking a position, an athlete must allow reasonable space for others to make normal movements without making contact. Adequate space must be available before passing. An athlete who approaches from any position to take advantage of the draft, bears responsibility for avoiding the draft.

Bicycle draft zone: the bicycle draft zone will be a rectangle 3 meters wide and 12 meters long.

The centre of the leading 3 meters edge will be measured from the leading edge of the front wheel.

An athlete may enter the draft zone of another athlete, but must be seen to be progressing through that zone. A maximum of 20 seconds will be allowed to pass through the zone of another athlete.

Vehicle draft zone: The vehicle draft zone will be a rectangle thirty-five (35) metres long by five (5) metres wide which surrounds every vehicle on the bike segment. The front edge of the vehicle will define the centre of the leading 5 metre edge of the rectangle.

Entry into the bicycle drafting zone: An athlete may enter a bike draft zone in the following circumstances:

- If the athlete enters the draft zone, and progresses through it within 20 seconds in the overtaking manoeuvre;

- For safety reasons;

- 100 metres before and after an aid station or transition area;

- At an acute turn;

- If the Technical Delegate excludes a section of the course because of narrow lanes, construction, detours, or for other safety reasons.

Overtaking: An athlete is passed when another athlete's front wheel is ahead of theirs. Once overtaken, an athlete must move out of the draft zone of the leading athlete within 5 seconds.

Athletes must keep to the side of the course and not create a blocking incident. Blocking is where an athlete who is behind cannot pass due to the leading athlete being poorly placed on the course.

The Motorcycle/Technical Official will instruct the athletes during the briefing on which side they
must pass another athlete when mounted on their bicycle.

Penalties for Drafting: It is forbidden to draft in a race declared as draft-illegal.

Motorcycle/Technical Officials will notify the athletes who draft that they are subject to a time penalty sanction, if it is safe for them to do so. This notification must be clear and unambiguous.

The athlete sanctioned has to stop in the next Penalty Box and must stay there for a specific time depending on the race distance. 1 minute for sprint distance, 2 minutes for standard distance and 5 minutes for long distance.

It is the athlete’s responsibility to stop in the next Penalty Box. Failing to stop will result in a disqualification.

A second drafting offence will lead to a disqualification in standard distance events or shorter.

The third drafting offence will lead to disqualification for Long Distance events.

Please be advised that appeals/protests cannot be made against "judgment calls" made by officials. This includes, but is not limited to, drafting, dangerous riding, safety issues and unsporting conduct. Please see here for more details regarding appeals and protests.

Details of all rules can be found in the Manual of Guidance or the ITU Rules on the Triathlon Ireland website.

Kind regards

Victoria Nolan
Administrator
vicky@triathlonireland.com

Trig1 · 24-07-2013 5:42pm

Sorry ,there was pics also but they never pasted...:(

El Director · 24-07-2013 5:48pm

No mention at all about having 5sec to drop back after being passed??!!

hardCopy · 24-07-2013 5:56pm

El Director wrote: »

No mention at all about having 5sec to drop back after being passed??!!

It's there:

Overtaking: An athlete is passed when another athlete's front wheel is ahead of theirs. Once overtaken, an athlete must move out of the draft zone of the leading athlete within 5 seconds.

El Director · 24-07-2013 6:08pm

hardCopy wrote: »

It's there:

Haha...thanks. Silly me

tunney · 24-07-2013 6:19pm

" d.

The 2nd run didn’t seem to affect the Rich Brady as he coasted to victory in a time of 52.51, 11 seconds ahead of Dave Barry who made up 3 places to finish 2nd, and 3rd was Barry Hughes a further 6 secinds back. Damian Kelly, David Corcoran, Gavin Smullen, Neil Kelly, Ciaran Giblin, David Tunney & Hugh Carberry completed the top 10. However, the TI race officials adjudicated that 7 of the top 10 should be awarded a 1 min drafting penalty. This didn’t affect the first 3 prizes but it moved Neil Kelly to 5th place and David Tunney to 7th place. "

Read it again Peter. Then get someone else to explain it to you.

hardCopy · 24-07-2013 6:53pm

tunney wrote: »

" d.

The 2nd run didn’t seem to affect the Rich Brady as he coasted to victory in a time of 52.51, 11 seconds ahead of Dave Barry who made up 3 places to finish 2nd, and 3rd was Barry Hughes a further 6 secinds back. Damian Kelly, David Corcoran, Gavin Smullen, Neil Kelly, Ciaran Giblin, David Tunney & Hugh Carberry completed the top 10. However, the TI race officials adjudicated that 7 of the top 10 should be awarded a 1 min drafting penalty. This didn’t affect the first 3 prizes but it moved Neil Kelly to 5th place and David Tunney to 7th place. "

Read it again Peter. Then get someone else to explain it to you.

I think he meant that you dropped back rather than draft, and benefited from the penalty. Not that you dropped back in the results due to penalty.

Peter's post is a little unclear, as is the wording of the article.

tunney · 24-07-2013 7:05pm

hardCopy wrote: »

I think he meant that you dropped back rather than draft, and benefited from the penalty. Not that you dropped back in the results due to penalty.

Peter's post is a little unclear, as is the wording of the article.

In that case I owe you an apology Peter. I shouldn't have jumped down your throat. Please accept my apology. I should have considered that you might have been defending me.

longshank · 24-07-2013 7:12pm

Ref Little Bo Peep email I was a bit confused when I saw that 12m zone
and when I checked this from TI website it stated it was 10m

Two different distances from TI doesn't help matters!!

longshank · 24-07-2013 7:18pm

longshank wrote: »

Ref Little Bo Peep email I was a bit confused when I saw that 12m zone
and when I checked this from TI website it stated it was 10m

Two different distances from TI doesn't help matters!!

Found the answer to my own question
"The length of the rectangle will
depend on the distance of the race: for Long distance events the length will
measure 12 metres; for Standard distance events or shorter, the length will
measure 10 metres. "

Would help it TI were a bit more accurate in their emails!

Shedite27 · 25-07-2013 7:45am

As someone relatively new to Tri, it seems strange to measure drafting by meters rather than seconds, seeing as the benefit is gained by time distance you are behind somebody rather than meter distance.

For example, if racers are going at 45km/h, 8m back will gain you significant drafting benefit whereas going uphill, being 8m back will give you much less benefit. Seems more sensible to say you need to be 2 seconds behind.

It's much easier for people to judge (see when the person in front passes a fixed mark (telephone pole), then say "one hippopotamus, two hippopotamus" and if you're passed the pole by the time you've finished saying it, you're too close.

Doesn't address people going out to cheat obviously, but it's a lot easier for honest people to gauge in the heat of the moment

dario28 · 08-08-2013 2:02pm

Hitler Has got involved !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il-v5RhgRBk

promethius · 08-08-2013 3:59pm

penalty board was empty at rosses point sprint at the weekend.

Ireland's Cheating Triathletes - Kilkee Draftfest. What to do?

Comments