Help me choose a first bike

pc11

Sorry if this is wrong place.

I'm a new biker (in my 40s). I am going to commute around 10 to 15km each way with a mix of Dublin city and some dual carriageway. I'm 6'1 and 13 stone. I'm looking for beginner-friendly, cheap to insure, cheap to buy, reliable and easy to sell on later when I upgrade. I was going to stick with 125cc but would consider 250-400. I'm looking at Japanese bikes and I want to stay under €1,000. I have a car so I might not use the bike every day. I need a bike I can stick a box on the back. Also, I don't want a very loud engine. EDIT: I'm based in Dublin.

Cheap commuting is my primary goal, but taking a spin at the weekend might be on too.

What models do you suggest and what's a reasonable price? Am I right to stick to a dealer for my first bike as I won't really know how to judge a bike from a private seller?

I'm getting suggestions but usually by people who want to sell me something. Some specific offers I've had are Varadero 124 in great shape for €1,400 or Suzuki GN125 for €750. How do these sound?

professore

Honda CG 125 - A nice one here: http://www.donedeal.ie/motorbikes-for-sale/honda-cg/5271968

MCN review: http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikereviews/searchresults/Bike-Reviews/Honda/Honda-CG125-1975-current/

100 mpg easy. For bulletproof reliability Honda has no equals. Once you start biking though, you will want to get something bigger - not because it's more practical, but because it's more fun. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !!!!

pc11

professore wrote: »

Honda CG 125 - A nice one here: http://www.donedeal.ie/motorbikes-for-sale/honda-cg/5271968

MCN review: http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikereviews/searchresults/Bike-Reviews/Honda/Honda-CG125-1975-current/

100 mpg easy. For bulletproof reliability Honda has no equals. Once you start biking though, you will want to get something bigger - not because it's more practical, but because it's more fun. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !!!!

That one does look nice, thanks! I'm in Dublin so its very far away though, I'll look out for that model.

So, for a beginner would you buy a 125 and trade up in 6 or 12 months or jump right into a 250/400?

How about these ones?

http://www.donedeal.ie/motorbikes-for-sale/suzuki-marauder-gz-125/5240478

http://www.donedeal.ie/motorbikes-for-sale/nsr-lovely-bike-on-sale/5279996

http://www.donedeal.ie/motorbikes-for-sale/suzuki-250-gz-marauder-for-sale/5185904

http://www.donedeal.ie/motorbikes-for-sale/suzuki-125-intruder-low-miles/5088186

http://www.donedeal.ie/motorbikes-for-sale/honda-varadero-125/5257673

http://www.donedeal.ie/motorbikes-for-sale/bros-400/5234944

Idleater

pc11 wrote: »

So, for a beginner would you buy a 125 and trade up in 6 or 12 months or jump right into a 250/400?

Firstly, if you are looking for a cheap commute, a motorcycle probably isn't the best. Certainly not when starting from scratch, and keeping a car on the road.

Secondly, buying a bike to trade in in 6 months will put you in midwinter, and unlikely to sell.

Thirdly, the misnomer of starting on a small bike isn't conducive to keeping costs down as over a, for example, 5 year term, the servicing and upkeep of a larger bike, say 600cc is equally cost effective in terms of use, comfort and time.

pc11

Idleater wrote: »

Firstly, if you are looking for a cheap commute, a motorcycle probably isn't the best. Certainly not when starting from scratch, and keeping a car on the road.

Secondly, buying a bike to trade in in 6 months will put you in midwinter, and unlikely to sell.

Thirdly, the misnomer of starting on a small bike isn't conducive to keeping costs down as over a, for example, 5 year term, the servicing and upkeep of a larger bike, say 600cc is equally cost effective in terms of use, comfort and time.

Thanks. So, if a motorcycle isn't the best for cheap commuting, what would you do then?

I take your other points, thanks. I suppose I'm thinking longish-term and that getting on a bike now will have pay-off over the years, not necessarily right away. It's not just about money but also enjoyment and getting there quickly. Also, I'm not just thinking of petrol costs but also saving on parking costs which make a bike attractive.

So, you're suggesting invest in a bigger bike sooner rather than later then?

professore

Idleater wrote: »

Firstly, if you are looking for a cheap commute, a motorcycle probably isn't the best. Certainly not when starting from scratch, and keeping a car on the road.

Secondly, buying a bike to trade in in 6 months will put you in midwinter, and unlikely to sell.

Thirdly, the misnomer of starting on a small bike isn't conducive to keeping costs down as over a, for example, 5 year term, the servicing and upkeep of a larger bike, say 600cc is equally cost effective in terms of use, comfort and time.

Considering the CG 125 will do 100 mpg easy, and a typical 600 cc supersports will struggle to get 40 mpg, plus the massive difference in insurance, even for an older rider, I wouldn't agree with that analysis. Having said that I commute on a VFR, but started on a Yamaha RXS 100. Bear in mind that you have to do your test on a 250 if you want a full bike licence though - if you use a 125 you'll only have a licence for that.

Plus if you are handy with a spanner the 125 can easily be serviced by a home mechanic (the 600 too ... but takes more ability). Also tyres are way more expensive on a 600. Plus if it's faired ... if you crack one of the panels its €€€€€.

More importantly, you are less likely to kill yourself off a 125, I would do a year on that first before moving up tbh.

Idleater

professore wrote: »

More importantly, you are less likely to kill yourself off a 125, I would do a year on that first before moving up tbh.

Ignoring the rest of your comments for a second, this is nonsense. At the end of the day there is a human controlling the throttle. I would say that a big moped probably suits the commute and usage that the op is talking about.

Op, yes bikes are cheaper than cars, but insurance is more, lessons are more, and gear is more. To get yourself on the road, budget another 1500 - 2000 for the first year.

Biking is totally worth it, but not for cost saving reasons. You need a biker mindset to keep safe, not x y or z size bike. Budget for gear, training and servicing for when you are not comfortable doing a job yourself. It is not like a car, the engine drives 1 wheel, and your stopping power is through 1 wheel. You sit in the middle.

I say all this as a RoSpa advanced rider, not to discourage you, simply to help you focus on what you actually want to achieve.

pc11

This is a really interesting topic, thanks lads.

But, as regards choosing particular models, any more suggestions?

Peanut2011

pc11 wrote: »

This is a really interesting topic, thanks lads.

But, as regards choosing particular models, any more suggestions?

OK,

Just to set few things right, if you go for a small 125cc bike, depending on your commute and the speed limits you might be putting extra strain on the bike if you have to try and push the limit.

Secondly, I do not find smaller engine bikes all that stable as well, but that is down to personal choice and comfort.

Thirdly, depending on what motorcycle license you want, depends on the bike you should get and plan ahead for the test.

If you get 125cc, you will only ever be able to get A1 and only ever be able to go up to 125cc. Personally I would not go for one.

If you consider other options you need to consider the power of the engine and not engine size :

A2 - Motorcycles less than 35kW, with a power/weight ratio not greater than 0.2kW/kg and not derived from a vehicle more than double its power


A - All motorcycles including those greater than 35kW

Now in saying that, i believe that the 250cc now do not belong to any category for the test so you should look up.

I have started in last few years and the best advice I got was to go for the bike that suits my need. For me that was a Bandit 600cc.

The engines are very good and unfaired model does not have all the plastic bits and bobs to get damaged if you do drop it.

I find it quite good on commute, has some power in it and it is reasonable on petrol. Granted I had to get it restricted.

They are easy to maintain and service and very few things to go wrong.

Furthermore if you decide after a while to go for Sunday spins, you will be more that able to enjoy it! I have not looked back since I bought it!


Now passed all that, you mentioned cost initially:

apart from the cost of the bike, you need to consider, IBT, insurance, full gear (helmet, jacket, trousers, boots, gloves & rain gear)....

Also, if you get a small bike and do IBT for that, when you decide to move up to next category you will have to do IBT module 5 for every change of category.

Daily commute and running cost on the bike are much cheaper then the car but the initial cost is quite expensive.

Hope I was of some help.

pc11

Peanut2011 wrote: »

OK,

Just to set few things right, if you go for a small 125cc bike, depending on your commute and the speed limits you might be putting extra strain on the bike if you have to try and push the limit.

Secondly, I do not find smaller engine bikes all that stable as well, but that is down to personal choice and comfort.

Thirdly, depending on what motorcycle license you want, depends on the bike you should get and plan ahead for the test.

If you get 125cc, you will only ever be able to get A1 and only ever be able to go up to 125cc. Personally I would not go for one.

If you consider other options you need to consider the power of the engine and not engine size :

Now in saying that, i believe that the 250cc now do not belong to any category for the test so you should look up.

I have started in last few years and the best advice I got was to go for the bike that suits my need. For me that was a Bandit 600cc.

The engines are very good and unfaired model does not have all the plastic bits and bobs to get damaged if you do drop it.

I find it quite good on commute, has some power in it and it is reasonable on petrol. Granted I had to get it restricted.

They are easy to maintain and service and very few things to go wrong.

Furthermore if you decide after a while to go for Sunday spins, you will be more that able to enjoy it! I have not looked back since I bought it!


Now passed all that, you mentioned cost initially:

apart from the cost of the bike, you need to consider, IBT, insurance, full gear (helmet, jacket, trousers, boots, gloves & rain gear)....

Also, if you get a small bike and do IBT for that, when you decide to move up to next category you will have to do IBT module 5 for every change of category.

Daily commute and running cost on the bike are much cheaper then the car but the initial cost is quite expensive.

Hope I was of some help.

Thanks chief, very helpful. Let me expand on where I'm at. I'm halfway through the IBT. I intend to sit the test on at least an A2 if not an A to make sure I'm fine for the long term. I'll use an instructor's bike if necessary, so the bike I buy doesn't make a difference to the test. So, I'm doing IBT modules 1,3,5 at the moment to keep all my options open and I'll do the test on at least a 400 and hopefully on a 750 to get the full A licence.

So, really the buying advice I'm looking for doesn't depend on the test.

Is it a general observation that a bigger bike will be more stable, all things being equal? You went straight for a 600 cc then, rather than working up over time and that worked well for you?

You're right about the initial cost, it's definitely more than I originally expected. But, I'm telling myself I'm making a long-term investment to ride a bike, both for enjoyment and for commuting. I've got a very good helmet at a great price for instance, so it will last me for a long time I hope.

Peanut2011

pc11 wrote: »

Is it a general observation that a bigger bike will be more stable, all things being equal? You went straight for a 600 cc then, rather than working up over time and that worked well for you?

You're right about the initial cost, it's definitely more than I originally expected. But, I'm telling myself I'm making a long-term investment to ride a bike, both for enjoyment and for commuting. I've got a very good helmet at a great price for instance, so it will last me for a long time I hope.

I am saying the bigger bike for me felt more stable and I was able to relax and enjoy it much more. I had 125cc as first bike on my IBT and second one was 500cc. Much more preferred the 500cc during IBT.

The 600cc worked perfectly for me. I am still enjoying it every day. Most people will say it's safer to start on smaller engine but my view is it's all the same. You can just as easily kill yourself on 125cc as you can on 600cc so that argument does not fly for me.

The best advice I can offer you is pick the style of the bike you like and don't limit yourself by cc. Then go and sit and see how they feel like. Some bikes will have more upright sitting position then others.

See what you feel comfortable on and decide that way. Furthermore, someone of your size might feel a bit too cramped on a small bike. Another thing to consider.

P.K.M.

Just my personal opinion, but I wouldn't be getting a 125 or a 250. An ideal first bike, especially for commuting, would be a Honda Bros (400cc) or a Honda Super Four (CB400).

They're economical, durable and easy to learn on, and once you get used to it, you can have a hoot on them too...my missus got a Super Four three years ago to commute in and out of college and she's never looked back. We still have it, but I'm temporarily using it. Granted, I'm 6' 3" and 16 stone so I'm a tiny bit big for it, but I still have fun.

Just an alternative for you to look at...

pc11

Peanut2011 wrote: »

I am saying the bigger bike for me felt more stable and I was able to relax and enjoy it much more. I had 125cc as first bike on my IBT and second one was 500cc. Much more preferred the 500cc during IBT.

The 600cc worked perfectly for me. I am still enjoying it every day. Most people will say it's safer to start on smaller engine but my view is it's all the same. You can just as easily kill yourself on 125cc as you can on 600cc so that argument does not fly for me.

The best advice I can offer you is pick the style of the bike you like and don't limit yourself by cc. Then go and sit and see how they feel like. Some bikes will have more upright sitting position then others.

See what you feel comfortable on and decide that way. Furthermore, someone of your size might feel a bit too cramped on a small bike. Another thing to consider.

Thanks again. Any specific models you suggest so I can narrow it down searching online?

Idleater

pc11 wrote: »

Thanks again. Any specific models you suggest so I can narrow it down searching online?

Sv 650

P.K.M.

Idleater wrote: »

Sv 650

Great bike too, torquey as f**k! Fun bike.

Peanut2011

pc11 wrote: »

Thanks again. Any specific models you suggest so I can narrow it down searching online?

If I was looking again I would go:

Suzuki Bandit 600cc or SV650 (650cc)
Honda Deauville 650cc
Honda CBR 600cc
Yamaha Frazer 600cc

pc11

Idleater wrote: »

Sv 650

Hmmm, cheapest one on donedeal.ie is 1,400 so that's over the budget. Are they cheap to insure?

Cuddlesworth

If your picking up a bike to save money and your doing the commute in Dublin rush hour while paying town parking prices then definatly go for it. I did and it saved me a fortune over 4 years.

You have to keep in the mind the time you have to invest in the bike. Cleaning, chain maintenance, you probably want to go out and pick up some tools too. works out far cheaper if you do it yourself.

Idleater

pc11 wrote: »

Hmmm, cheapest one on donedeal.ie is 1,400 so that's over the budget. Are they cheap to insure?

I've already responded to your queries on cost effectiveness. Ring the insurance companies for quotes on the range of bikes you are interested in.

As it happens, yes, for me, the sv650 was cheap to insure. The sv1000 I have now is also cheap, cheaper than my car at present.

pc11

Idleater wrote: »

I've already responded to your queries on cost effectiveness. Ring the insurance companies for quotes on the range of bikes you are interested in.

As it happens, yes, for me, the sv650 was cheap to insure. The sv1000 I have now is also cheap, cheaper than my car at present.

Well the idea of asking for suggestions here was so I would know what models to ask the insurance companies to quote for as I had no way to know what I was interested in without help. Thanks for your input.

Peanut2011

So OP, have you thought of any more on what and if you might go for?

pc11

Peanut2011 wrote: »

So OP, have you thought of any more on what and if you might go for?

Well, I've certainly thought about it, but nothing firm yet. I can see the value of going for 250/400 alright, but I don't see myself going for the SV650 just yet. I've played with the Aon Insurance quote website a bit with some of the models mentioned, and I saw some variation in premium, but as soon as I put in my 2 penalty points it refuses to quote me online. I don't want to call them until I'm a bit more firm in my intentions though.

Any idea how much 2 points might hurt me with insurance? I'm over 40 with no previous bike insurance. The lowest I was being quoted around €330 for 3rd party which was on a GN 125 and also for a GN 250 I think.

Peanut2011

pc11 wrote: »

Any idea how much 2 points might hurt me with insurance? I'm over 40 with no previous bike insurance.

Don't think that would hurt you at all, I would say it's a precaution more than anything else. As far as I know most insurance companies will be fine with 2 points. Anything over is a concern.

Ah sure would be nice to hear what and if you go for something so maybe come back and let us know if and when!

pc11

You said you liked a Bandit 600 - what would you say about a Bandit 250 or 400?

Edit: or a Marauder 250?

Peanut2011

pc11 wrote: »

You said you liked a Bandit 600 - what would you say about a Bandit 250 or 400?

Edit: or a Marauder 250?

Unfortunately I did not come across any Bandit's 250 or 400 and don't know of anyone that has one to tell you about their reliability and so on. Considering the years they were manufactured I would imagine you would struggle to find 250cc one these days.

One major difference in 250 / 400cc and the 600cc is that the first two are water cooled opposed to oil in 600cc. This is probably no help to you but that is all I got.

Regarding Marauder, that is not my type of the bike so I really know nothing about them. All I can tell you about them is that there are plenty of them around which is good as parts should be available but the question would be re-sale value.