Your Ireland 23 for Nov. 9th versus Samoa

JagerScout

Madigan at 12?

People really wishing to see something that just isn't there. He was very average at 12 for Leinster.

Also laughable at how some people just find any excuse not to pick Chris Henry.

sydthebeat

JagerScout wrote: »

Madigan at 12?

1. People really wishing to see something that just isn't there. He was very average at 12 for Leinster.

2. Also laughable at how some people just find any excuse not to pick Chris Henry.

1. agreed, hes not a 12, although he could "do a job" there if injuries demanded.

2. because theres better players in that position? POM and Fez to name two. SOB also, though id retain him at 7 because i think its his best position.

Foxtrol

As I said previously when this game was discussed how many of Samoa's first team do we think will actually make the trip given the number of French based Islander players who pick up 'injuries' just before international windows? Even at full strength an Irish team playing any brand of rugby above Kidney-ball would have way too much for them even minus a few key players but I can understand why Schmidt may pick a strong side to get the front line players up to speed.

For those who are saying otherwise POM is well worth his place now, coming from someone who'd have McLaughlin and Henry ahead of him this time last year. Him playing however is likely to keep Heaslip and SOB stuck in more rucks, tidying up messy ball than they would with Leinster which may not be ideal tactically.

.ak

sydthebeat wrote: »

1. agreed, hes not a 12, although he could "do a job" there if injuries demanded.

2. because theres better players in that position? POM and Fez to name two. SOB also, though id retain him at 7 because i think its his best position.

POM and Fez are not 7s?

I'd love to see a backrow of 6. SOB, 7. Henry even just for one game. Pure Schmidt.

Swiwi.

GiftofGab wrote: »

Crazy to think that Samoa are ranked 7th in the world - just below Wales and ahead of us - with a population of under 200,000 people.

How many of those 200,000 people are registered players? Phenomenal achievement. I remember England playing Samoa a few years ago in Twickenham and there was 80,000 people at the stadium. That's over 40% the population of all of Samoa. Samoa only lost by a few points.

There's another ~130,000 Kiwis with Samoan heritage living in enzed, so that increases the pool a bit. Schmidt would be foolish to send anything other than a full-strength side out against them. An Irish victory would provide useful ranking points, and help get combinations up to speed before the Anzacs arrive.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JagerScout wrote: »

Madigan at 12?

People really wishing to see something that just isn't there. He was very average at 12 for Leinster.

Also laughable at how some people just find any excuse not to pick Chris Henry.

It's laughable how ridiculous some peoples laughable ridiculous opinions are

haha!

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

.ak wrote: »

POM and Fez are not 7s?

I'd love to see a backrow of 6. SOB, 7. Henry even just for one game. Pure Schmidt.

Ya, think Schmidt will have the good sense to rotate Henry and POM dependent on opposition though

Liveforrugby

What kind of tactics and gameplay do people anticipate from samoa... oh wait

Prepare yourselves, injuries are coming

Woody1997

Luke Fitzgerald anyone???

Hagz

Woody1997 wrote: »

Luke Fitzgerald anyone???

I'd love to see it, but I'd imagine this place would erupt if Zebo was omitted. Understandably there'd be a few 'Schmidt loyalty/bias' comments. Personally I think when he's fit he's still our best wing option outside of Bowe. But then again Fitz is my fav player.

Kayless

Hagz wrote: »

I'd love to see it, but I'd imagine this place would erupt if Zebo was omitted. Understandably there'd be a few 'Schmidt loyalty/bias' comments. Personally I think when he's fit he's still our best wing option outside of Bowe. But then again Fitz is my fav player.

I think Fitz is going to be a big winner under Schmidt, we could end up seeing Zebo at full back with Bowe and Fitz on the wings

Thekidneybean

If Fitzgerald was fit it could be him 11 bowe 14 zebo 15, Trimble,kearney, McFadden go for the 23 shirt

bilston

Tomtom364 wrote: »

I think back row is the most contentious area for november.

Personally Id go for

6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip

20. TOD (offers more options from the bench then Henry)

Give TOD some good time in the 1st team as he has come on leaps and bound this season.
I think with the players availible Henry is a waste of a bench spot. He should either start or not feature IMO

Sure Henry covers the entire back row.

awec

Thekidneybean wrote: »

If Fitzgerald was fit it could be him 11 bowe 14 zebo 15, Trimble,kearney, McFadden go for the 23 shirt

Zebo would need to start playing at full back for Munster then.

irishbucsfan

If our back line under Schmidt is the same system as he used for Leinster then I think Fitz would be more suited to it than Zebo.

But he might just re-work the system so that it includes a space for a Zebo-esque player.

former legend

awec wrote: »

Zebo would need to start playing at full back for Munster then.

This, this and this again.

wittycynic

Thekidneybean wrote: »

If Fitzgerald was fit it could be him 11 bowe 14 zebo 15, Trimble,kearney, McFadden go for the 23 shirt

I like fitz, but his international try scoring record is dismal. The likes of zebo and Trimble should be ahead of him in the reckoning.

bilston

When's Fitzgerald due back?

awec

awec wrote: »

Zebo would need to start playing at full back for Munster then.

11. Earls / Luke O'Dea
..
..
14. Conway
15. Zebo

I don't see why this couldn't happen.

former legend

Deleted User wrote: »

11. Earls / Luke O'Dea
..
..
14. Conway
15. Zebo

I don't see why this couldn't happen.

There's no reason it couldn't happen, but it didn't happen this year when:
11. Earls
14. Howlett
15. Zebo
would have been an option. I'd say he'll be on the wing and he'll stay there.

Besides, it's a massive stretch to go from "Zebo did well in his two games at full-back" to "Zebo would start ahead of Kearney" so it's a moot point really.

Glass Prison 1214

former legend wrote: »

There's no reason it couldn't happen, but it didn't happen this year when:
11. Earls
14. Howlett
15. Zebo
would have been an option. I'd say he'll be on the wing and he'll stay there.

Besides, it's a massive stretch to go from "Zebo did well in his two games at full-back" to "Zebo would start ahead of Kearney" so it's a moot point really.

Well if Kearney doesn't regain top form then its quite possible Zebo will start ahead of him.

.ak

bilston wrote: »

When's Fitzgerald due back?

He was back training at the end of the season so I'd say soon.

.ak

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

Well if Kearney doesn't regain top form then its quite possible Zebo will start ahead of him.

He's a massive way to go tbh. Even when Kearney isn't on top form he's still one of the most pragmatic FB options available to us, his positioning and kicking game are still unmatched by any FB in Ireland.

The only player plying their trade here I'd have in my team at FB ahead of him right now isn't Irish qualified....

awec

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

Well if Kearney doesn't regain top form then its quite possible Zebo will start ahead of him.

Only if Zebo consistently starts and plays well at full back for Munster. At the moment Kearney is in no danger of losing his spot.

Given that I don't think Zebo will be shifted to full back I suspect Kearney will keep his spot at 15 until Payne is eligible.

Glass Prison 1214

.ak wrote: »

He's a massive way to go tbh. Even when Kearney isn't on top form he's still one of the most pragmatic FB options available to us, his positioning and kicking game are still unmatched by any FB in Ireland.

The only player plying their trade here I'd have in my team at FB ahead of him right now isn't Irish qualified....

On form hes lethal, no doubt about that. But in recent months I have just found him infuriating to watch, he has been wasteful of possession and his decision making and defense have been poor. He has thrown away a lot of try scoring opportunities for Leinster for not passing when it was on, instead running into contact. Getting dropped could be the kick up the backside that he needs to rediscover 2009/2012 form.

former legend

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

Well if Kearney doesn't regain top form then its quite possible Zebo will start ahead of him.

Kearney was injured most of the season and was brilliant when he came back so I'm not too worried on that front, but the real point is that it's hard to see Zebo even being considered for Ireland if he's not playing there for Munster.

Edit; Just saw your post above, disagree with nearly all of it.

awec

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

On form hes lethal, no doubt about that. But in recent months I have just found him infuriating to watch, he has been wasteful of possession and his decision making and defense have been poor. He has thrown away a lot of try scoring opportunities for Leinster for not passing when it was on, instead running into contact. Getting dropped could be the kick up the backside that he needs to rediscover 2009/2012 form.

The main thing is he needs to remember he is allowed to pass the ball.

Glass Prison 1214

awec wrote: »

The main thing is he needs to remember he is allowed to pass the ball.

That is an issue though, he has had plenty of time to sort that out since he came through quite early but he is still holding onto possession at the wrong times.

Mahatma Geansai

Zebo could be a real option to start ahead of Kearney. He's a superior running threat, shows better awareness of his teammates, and has a similarly good kicking/fielding game. The only real issue would be his lack of game time at 15 meaning his positioning wouldn't be as good, but his pace would definitely help if his positioning is slightly off. His reading of the game from 15 wouldn't be near as good either, so he wouldn't be able to get on the ball as much as he can from the wing.

awec

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Zebo could be a real option to start ahead of Kearney. He's a superior running threat, shows better awareness of his teammates, and has a similarly good kicking/fielding game. The only real issue would be his lack of game time at 15 meaning his positioning wouldn't be as good, but his pace would definitely help if his positioning is slightly off. His reading of the game from 15 wouldn't be near as good either, so he wouldn't be able to get on the ball as much as he can from the wing.

He is nowhere near a real option to start ahead of Kearney until he consistently plays full back at Munster.

If he wants to play at 15 for Ireland then he needs to be playing 15 at Munster, and not just when injury to other players dictates he has to.

.ak

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

On form hes lethal, no doubt about that. But in recent months I have just found him infuriating to watch, he has been wasteful of possession and his decision making and defense have been poor. He has thrown away a lot of try scoring opportunities for Leinster for not passing when it was on, instead running into contact. Getting dropped could be the kick up the backside that he needs to rediscover 2009/2012 form.

Not sure about any of this, I think his Lions performances show exactly what he's capable of, right now. He's a solid FB option and his positioning, kicking and even running game is hugely effective. At club level he's still massively influential, his come back to Leinster after the near year saw him score a try in every game in Europe. For Ireland we didn't get to see the backs in action at all really apart from Wales. His decision making was awry in that game in fairness, but that's what coming back from injury on the big stage does to you.

I think you're basically being harsh. Maybe because we're expecting the 2009 form. In reality, dropping players doesn't necessarily result in players finding form, sometimes it can mean the opposite. It is, ofcourse, up to the coach to decide how long the player needs to get back up to speed. Kearney has always struck me as someone that can take a while to motor back up to full speed, like he did in 2012.

shuffol

I think Kearneys kicking game has been very hit and miss the last few months of the season, if thats not going well and people arent kicking garryowens to him he becomes quite a limited player, definately a position where some competition would be welcome.

Kayless

shuffol wrote: »

I think Kearneys kicking game has been very hit and miss the last few months of the season, if thats not going well and people arent kicking garryowens to him he becomes quite a limited player, definately a position where some competition would be welcome.

Agreed. He runs into traffic on his own way to much and ends up turning the ball over and don't even get my started about him under high ball, in saying that Kearney is a quality player and has shown what he can do when he hits form, hopefully not getting picked for the Lions tests and with some time off over the summer he can get back to his old form because against Aus and NZ we will need everyone to be on top of their game

former legend

Kayless wrote: »

Agreed. He runs into traffic on his own way to much and ends up turning the ball over and don't even get my started about him under high ball, in saying that Kearney is a quality player and has shown what he can do when he hits form, hopefully not getting picked for the Lions tests and with some time off over the summer he can get back to his old form because against Aus and NZ we will need everyone to be on top of their game

Hang on. Are you saying that Kearney is not good under the high ball?

Kayless

former legend wrote: »

Hang on. Are you saying that Kearney is not good under the high ball?

I'm not saying he's never been good under high ball :eek: I just can't remember the last time I seen him win a high ball, can you? I do remember Zebo beat him under a few last Oct/Nov... I really hope he can find some form going into the AIs and the 2014 6 nations

.ak

Kayless wrote: »

I'm not saying he's never been good under high ball :eek: I just can't remember the last time I seen him win a high ball, can you? I do remember Zebo beat him under a few last Oct/Nov... I really hope he can find some form going into the AIs and the 2014 6 nations

I'd say the Amlin cup final is good example of how good he was under highball recently. They were desperate after a few phases so most of the ball went high. RK was imperious under it.

Buer

Kayless wrote: »

I'm not saying he's never been good under high ball :eek: I just can't remember the last time I seen him win a high ball, can you?

Yes, this tour.

former legend

Kayless wrote: »

I'm not saying he's never been good under high ball :eek: I just can't remember the last time I seen him win a high ball, can you? I do remember Zebo beat him under a few last Oct/Nov... I really hope he can find some form going into the AIs and the 2014 6 nations

No. Just no to all of the above.

I'm impressed by your memory of Zebo beating Kearney in the air in October or November. There was me thinking Madigan played fb that night after Kearney was injured.

Hmmmm

Kayless

former legend wrote: »

No. Just no to all of the above.

I'm impressed by your memory of Zebo beating Kearney in the air in October or November. There was me thinking Madigan played fb that night after Kearney was injured.

Hmmmm

Well for the sake of argument it was the night POC kicked D Kearney in the head, now that I think about it might not have been Oct/Nov

Zebo went up for the ball as did Kearney and Zebo go it, this then resulted in handbags between Dave, Rob and Zebo I'm sure a few people on here will remember it, the point I'm making is that the Kearney of old would have won that ball but also Zebos not to bad in the air himself

Also just so know I'm a Leinster supporter

.ak

Kayless wrote: »

Well for the sake of argument it was the night POC kicked D Kearney in the head, now that I think about it might not have been Oct/Nov

Zebo went up for the ball as did Kearney and Zebo go it, this then resulted in handbags between Dave, Rob and Zebo I'm sure a few people on here will remember it, the point I'm making is that the Kearney of old would have won that ball but also Zebos not to bad in the air himself

Also just so know I'm a Leinster supporter

That was the game in Thomond. Zebo did win the aerial battle that night, in fairness.

Still has a long way to go if he wants to usurp Kearney tho.

Kayless

Buer wrote: »

Yes, this tour.

Would love to see the highlights of that but even so, the point is not so much that he can't get the odd high ball, it's that he used to be the master at it and for some reason or another he seems to have lost that aspect of his game of late. Would you not agree that he should be winning most of the high balls?

dingoberry

You could argue the back row all day, and it's possible to have a good debate on POM starting, but one or 2 posts don't even have him in the 23 which seems amazing to me. I think he's going to be a fixture for years and almost certainly Munster captain either this year or next.

He's clearly ahead of Henderson, Ruddock and Mclaughlin for now.

If Ferris can ever get back it will be interesting.

JagerScout

if Ferris gets back it wont be interesting, far better blindside than POM when healthy and in top form.

Podge_irl

dingoberry wrote: »

He's clearly ahead of Henderson, Ruddock and Mclaughlin for now.

I don't think it's that clear at all (well, except for Ruddock). McL is a very different player but he's been an ever-present in Leinster's big games for a reason. I'd favour POM at the moment, but its close enough that a decent run of form for McL or slight loss in form for POM would tip it. McL will hit rucks and clean up scrapy ball all day long.

Henderson is just a beast. He's not really as good as POM or McL yet in many ways, but you just love to see him on the pitch.

Podge_irl

JagerScout wrote: »

if Ferris gets back it wont be interesting, far better blindside than POM when healthy and in top form.

Far better blindside than anyone.

But I'll consider any time he plays for Ireland in the future as a bonus - I don't really expect to see him.

danthefan

Can't see Ferris being fit for the AIs.

.ak

How can he be? He's not due back for Ulster until December, right?

Swan Curry

.ak wrote: »

How can he be? He's not due back for Ulster until December, right?

I have the feeling this is a bit of a Luke Fitzgerald situation and he could be out longer than we think.Judging from some of his tweets,he's only off crutches today and the best guess for his return is "Hopefully another few months".

Woody1997

I don't understand why zebo suddenly has to be in the team, I still don't see him as a definite starter. He's far from the finished article and only got his chance due to injuries

thomond2006

Woody1997 wrote: »

I don't understand why zebo suddenly has to be in the team, I still don't see him as a definite starter. He's far from the finished article and only got his chance due to injuries

Most players only get their chance because of injuries.