€1200 Gaming Build

solidMGSsnake · 02-07-2013 4:05am #1

Hey so I want to build a gaming PC, this is my first build. I did a lot of research before going about it but I'm still quite unsure on what parts to get. I found this $1500 Build 2013 on Youtube so I thought I would basically use that but the $ to € is a bit more then I expected. Here's the build:

CPU - Intel Core i5-4670K
CPU Cooler - Corsair H80I
Mobo - Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD3H
Graphics Card - 2GB EVGA GTX 770
RAM - 8GB Corsair Vengeance
SSD - 120GB Samsung 840 Series
HDD - 1TB WD Caviar Black
Case - Fractal Design Define R4 (windowed)
PSU - 750W Corsair TX750M
Network Adapter - Asus PCE-N15

Here's the video if you're interested - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-XINXaLdrE
Also in that video's description there is a link to every part, as well as their price in Dollars.

I also need to get Windows 8 OEM 64-Bit and a cheap keyboard.

Amazon turned out to be way too expensive so for the most part I'll be using the site dabs.ie. Is this site ok? Do you recommend any other sites?
Not including a cheap keyboard the whole thing is coming to around €1360, as you can see that is over my budget by a little bit. Is there anything I could modify in the build that would save me money but not really affect my PC's performance? The GPU is like tice the price of the CPU so will that cause bottlenecking or is that ok? Also I heard AMD are supposed to be cheaper, should I change my CPU to an AMD? This doesn't include P&P either so I need to lose about €200 I would say. Also is there anything in that build that won't work with each other such as, will my CPU connect to my Mobo? Do I need any additional wiring or components or is something else is better for my build? I don't expect my games to run on the highest settings but I want fairly high settings with good FPS. I might overclock a little but not a lot. Please let me know and all help is appreciated.

BloodBath · 02-07-2013 11:08am

Fill this in please.

1. What is your budget? [€xxx]

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? [Gaming/Video editing/3D Modelling/HTPC/Internet] (If gaming include which games)

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? [Yes/No]

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? [Hard drive/DVD Drive/Case/PSU/etc.] (If possible state brand and model of the parts to ensure compatibility)

5. Do you need a monitor? [Yes/No]

5a. If yes, what size do you need. [19'/20'/22'/24'/etc.]

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? [1920x1080/1440x900/etc.] [Yes/No]

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? [Keyboard/Mouse/Wireless Card/Card Reader/Speakers/etc.]

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? [Yes/No]

8. How can you pay? [Bank Transfer/Credit Card/Laser]

9. When are you purchasing? [In x days]

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? [South Dublin City/Cork City/Kerry/etc.]

solidMGSsnake · 02-07-2013 5:08pm

Dude did you bother to read my post at all?

1. It says in the title €1200

2. Again it's in the title Gaming, the games I get aren't anything to do with this build but I want them to run on high settings

3. Yes, Windows 8 64-Bit System Builder OEM

4. Possibly an Optical Drive but I haven't checked yet

5. For now because I'm on a budget, I'll be using my 32" Samsung TV. I'll get a monitor later

6. I'll need a Network Adapter and a cheap basic keyboard

7. Yes but I doubt I'll go far, only a small bit of OC

8. Those new Visa debit card things

9. New few days hopefully

10. I'm sure I can build it myself

I don't understand why I need to fill out some form. All the necessary info was in my post and the form doesn't cover all my questions. I was asking for advice on a build, I'm not looking for someone to suggest another build. Although if you think a certain part is better then please give me feedback.

BloodBath · 02-07-2013 5:14pm

Forget it then. I was only trying to help. I can't give you advice without all the info. Those sticky questions exist for a reason.

If you bothered reading the forum stickies like you're supposed to before posting you would have seen it yourself.

Marsden · 02-07-2013 5:19pm

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

Dude did you bother to read my post at all?

Wow, what a polite way to ask someone to go to the trouble to pick out the best possible build for you. If you apologize and ask nicely bloodbath might help.;)

solidMGSsnake · 02-07-2013 5:24pm

Huh? I'm sorry if I offended you or anything, I just didn't understand why you wanted me to fill out a form that's all. I checked to see if there was a rules topic but I couldn't find any. Also I still included all necessary info, just I didn't do it in the same method and if I did use the form, I wouldn't of been able to include all my questions.

I also didn't know what you mean by "I can't give you advice without all the info" I complied and filled out your form, I also had the info in my first post so you should have all the info you need.

So please, I appreciate any and all help given, I just don't know how I upset you, sorry.

BloodBath · 02-07-2013 5:29pm

I'm not upset, I just don't see the need to help someone who doesn't sound like they would appreciate it anyway.

I didn't have all the info I need and your info is contained in rambling unformatted text.

The questions gives me exactly all the info I need, unlike your ramblings and is formatted in a way that I can quickly check if you need certain parts without having to scrawl through your text.

BloodBath · 02-07-2013 6:02pm

Here's a build with similar performance for a lot less. The 4670k is not worth the extra board, cpu and cooling price imo. You could get around a 4.5ghz overclock on the 3570k far more cheaply.

The 770gtx is not worth over €100 more than the 760gtx. It offer's marginal performance gains. Price/performance scales badly past this point. The board supports sli so you could add a second card in future when you wanted. It's already reasonably priced unlike the 770.

There's enough left in the budget for whatever you want. You could add a nice 22" or 24" ips monitor. A nice mechanical keyboard and good gaming mouse + mat. If you're set on the 4670k or the 770gtx there's enough there to upgrade 1 of them either.

Or Headphones/speakers/case upgrade ect. That case comes in white or black + silver as well.

Item|Price
Intel Core i5-3570K Box, LGA1155|€202.32
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - Intel/AMD|€28.78
ZOTAC GeForce GTX 760 AMP! Edition, 2GB DDR5|€251.34
ASRock Z77 Extreme3, Sockel 1155, ATX|€109.19
8GB-Kit GeIL Enhance Corsa PC3-10667U CL9-9-9-24 (DDR3-1333)|€56.68
Samsung SSD 840 120GB SATA 6Gb/s|€84.70
WD Caviar Blue 1TB 6Gb's|€56.22
Cooltek Antiphon Black, ohne Netzteil|€61.20
LiteOn iHAS124-04 schwarz SATA|€16.31
be quiet! Pure Power L8 CM|€77.98
MS Windows 8 64bit (SB-Version) Englisch|€84.71
ASUS PCE-N15|€14.90
LogiLink SATA Anschlusskabel mit Sicherungslasche, 0.5m|€0.63
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€1063.95

solidMGSsnake · 02-07-2013 6:02pm

I mentioned multiple times that I am appreciative of all help.

It wasn't "ramblings" it was explaining everything I needed, it was only a short paragraph, if you can't bother to read a short paragraph then why are you even on a forum? I'm also insulted that you referred to it as "ramblings" when it wss perfectly concise.

All my parts were listed in my post in a list, so there is no reason why you should of found them hard to read. Your form didn't cover my question whatsoever, I don't need you to look for parts for me, I wanted feedback on the parts I had given, something your form didn't even ask for. You form didn't ask what CPU or Mobo is was using, it was asking what payment method I was using which has very little to do with anything, the form itself wasn't tackling my question. Yet I still complied, I still filled out the form like you asked yet you still said you don't have the necessary info?

Honestly I don't see what the problem is, I never had this issue with other forums, they just read my short paragraph and advised me on my build. You on the other hand haven't even mentioned any hardware, you seem more focused on the buying which this topic isn't about.

I'm sorry if there is any bad blood between us but you simply aren't trying to answer my question and when I mentioned it, you got offended.

I understand if you don't want to help me after this but I do appreciate the help if you are willing but please if you are, give me advice on jy build. Use the form, read my list of parts, you don't need to read my "ramblings" but at least actually cover my question sudh as is it a good CPU, does it work well with the Mobo and GPU?

Thank you.

BloodBath · 02-07-2013 6:10pm

I've already posted an alternative build.

I've explained the reason for the questions and you still don't get it. I haven't memorised everything in your post. If I have forgotten and need to check do you want overclocking for example I know to go to question 7 for the answer. I'd have to skim through your entire unformatted post again to find the answer otherwise.

The parts in your list were taken from a youtube video as you said. You may or may not have needed all of them. You said gaming but you may also have been using it for other work which could change the required spec. Again the questions make this clearer.

Giving feedback on the parts you have chosen involves knowing all the details on what you need and what you will be using it for as well as offering an alternative and why you should consider the alternative.

Lu Tze · 02-07-2013 6:14pm

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

I mentioned multiple times that I am appreciative of all help.

It wasn't "ramblings" it was explaining everything I needed, it was only a short paragraph, if you can't bother to read a short paragraph then why are you even on a forum? I'm also insulted that you referred to it as "ramblings" when it wss perfectly concise.

All my parts were listed in my post in a list, so there is no reason why you should of found them hard to read. Your form didn't cover my question whatsoever, I don't need you to look for parts for me, I wanted feedback on the parts I had given, something your form didn't even ask for. You form didn't ask what CPU or Mobo is was using, it was asking what payment method I was using which has very little to do with anything, the form itself wasn't tackling my question. Yet I still complied, I still filled out the form like you asked yet you still said you don't have the necessary info?

Honestly I don't see what the problem is, I never had this issue with other forums, they just read my short paragraph and advised me on my build. You on the other hand haven't even mentioned any hardware, you seem more focused on the buying which this topic isn't about.

I'm sorry if there is any bad blood between us but you simply aren't trying to answer my question and when I mentioned it, you got offended.

I understand if you don't want to help me after this but I do appreciate the help if you are willing but please if you are, give me advice on jy build. Use the form, read my list of parts, you don't need to read my "ramblings" but at least actually cover my question sudh as is it a good CPU, does it work well with the Mobo and GPU?

Thank you.

If you are just looking for comment on your hardware selection, they will work fine. However you budget could be better spent, which is what bloodbath was addressing

solidMGSsnake · 02-07-2013 6:15pm

Thank you, sincerely

I will definitely take this build into consideration.

Portlawslim · 02-07-2013 6:27pm

What happens here is you fill out the form, this then gives the lads the info they need to spec a really good build for your budget. You can include anything you already have(mouse, headset or monitor,etc,etc)
Be nice!

Bloodbath and the rest of the folks here spec these builds in their own free time and they know their stuff, you'd be wise to take their advice.
I had a similar budget to yours and they didn't put me wrong.

Just my tuppence worth

solidMGSsnake · 02-07-2013 7:47pm

Hey will I run into any problems ordering from Germany? Like the Windows 8 is Englisch, obviously German for English but it won't end up in German or something will it? Are these the best prices? Could I possibly get a better deal on say dabs.ie or something? I'm not saying the prices are bad but I'm new at this, what I'm asking is are they good value? Also what's the extra SATA cable for?

By how much will my performance be affected by this build rather than my initial one, will it still be able to handle games on high with good FPS and all that. I'm willing to overclock but I don't want to push my CPU to the very limit so that it will only last a year.

According to the Network adapter's description, it doesn't support Win 8, is that true or has it just not been updated?

I also noticed that fans you picked are way cheaper, will they still keep the PC cool? Especially if I am Overclocking. I think the one I originally had had water cooling, isn't that a must for overclocking? Sorry for asking a lot of questions but I want to make sure my PC is safe and still runs well.

SlickanTwisted · 02-07-2013 7:57pm

Use what these guys suggest. I had a similar build with a 1200 budget and had never built a pc in my life. was advised on the best parts for the best price and where to order from. any question i had it was answered qiuckly and very professionally. i ordered from hardwareversand and within a week 2 nice large shiney boxes arrived. spent about 6 hours building the pc as i had never done it before and encountered a few problems along the way but were quickly solved by the guys on here. Thaks again to the guys my Iracing never looked so good

Lu Tze · 02-07-2013 9:33pm

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

1. Hey will I run into any problems ordering from Germany?

2. Like the Windows 8 is Englisch, obviously German for English but it won't end up in German or something will it?

3. Are these the best prices?

4. Could I possibly get a better deal on say dabs.ie or something? I'm not saying the prices are bad but I'm new at this, what I'm asking is are they good value?

5. Also what's the extra SATA cable for?

6. By how much will my performance be affected by this build rather than my initial one, will it still be able to handle games on high with good FPS and all that. I'm willing to overclock but I don't want to push my CPU to the very limit so that it will only last a year.

7. According to the Network adapter's description, it doesn't support Win 8, is that true or has it just not been updated?

8. I also noticed that fans you picked are way cheaper, will they still keep the PC cool? Especially if I am Overclocking.
9. I think the one I originally had had water cooling, isn't that a must for overclocking? Sorry for asking a lot of questions but I want to make sure my PC is safe and still runs well.

1. The only real difference in oredering from Hardwareversand is paying by bank transfer

2. That is the english version, no need to worry

3. Hardwareversand is pretty competitive prcing especially if you are ordering a full build as they had a flat shipping fee of ~€20. You could check to see if you can get some parts cheaper on amazon with free shipping perhaps

4. Dabs are competitive with some items, but generally for a full build you will pay significantly more. Price up the same or similar components on dabs and see how you get on

5. There is an ssd, a hdd and a dvd drive in that build and you normally only get 2 sata cables with the motherboard, hence the extra one.

6. For what you are using it for, there should be no discernable reduction in performance, and you still have the option to overclock as bloodbath included an aftermarket cpu cooler.

7. It should be fine, though have you considered home plugs instead? Gives steadier throughput

8. I cant see the fan on his build?

9. Watercooling isnt a must for overclocking, its generally for builds where noise levels are an important consideration.

solidMGSsnake · 02-07-2013 10:59pm

Lu Tze wrote: »

1. The only real difference in oredering from Hardwareversand is paying by bank transfer

2. That is the english version, no need to worry

3. Hardwareversand is pretty competitive prcing especially if you are ordering a full build as they had a flat shipping fee of ~€20. You could check to see if you can get some parts cheaper on amazon with free shipping perhaps

4. Dabs are competitive with some items, but generally for a full build you will pay significantly more. Price up the same or similar components on dabs and see how you get on

5. There is an ssd, a hdd and a dvd drive in that build and you normally only get 2 sata cables with the motherboard, hence the extra one.

6. For what you are using it for, there should be no discernable reduction in performance, and you still have the option to overclock as bloodbath included an aftermarket cpu cooler.

7. It should be fine, though have you considered home plugs instead? Gives steadier throughput

8. I cant see the fan on his build?

9. Watercooling isnt a must for overclocking, its generally for builds where noise levels are an important consideration.

By fans I meant CPU cooler, also won't I need additional fans for keeping my whole tower cool?

Do I have to use bank transfer? I've never done that before and it seems quite complected.

By HomePlugs could you go into more detail, they look more like something that your PC connects to, not something that gives your PC wireless capability.

I mentioned this build to a lot of other people and they advised me on the following things:

1. Get the Black HDD as the Blue is apparently awful

2. The ASRock Z77 Extreme3 is very "budget" with less VRAM and can't handle OCing and I should stick to Asus or Gigabyte. Such as the Gigabyte Z77x-UD3H

3. Swap ZONTAC for EVGA

4. One guy had issues with the PCE N15 and recommends I look for a different adapter.

Well what do you guys think? I think second opinions are very important in this sort of thing. In hindsight do you agree with them or do you have a counter argument?

marco_polo · 03-07-2013 1:19am

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

I mentioned this build to a lot of other people and they advised me on the following things:

1. Get the Black HDD as the Blue is apparently awful

Its fine no certainly no worst than the Seagate Barracuda which is it main competitor in that price range, I don't really see the point spending a fortune on a slightly faster HDD, that will still be orders of magnitude slower than an SSD, when you'll be installing most games and applications on the SSD anyway.

2. The ASRock Z77 Extreme3 is very "budget" with less VRAM and can't handle OCing and I should stick to Asus or Gigabyte. Such as the Gigabyte Z77x-UD3H

I presume they meant VRMs,? the Asrock is a mid range not a budget board and has good features for the price, pretty much any decent z77 motherboard will be well able an i5-3570K to its maximum potential as unlike say the FX8350 for example, it really doesn't draw anyway near enough power for VRM design to become an issue.

3. Swap ZONTAC for EVGA

Or course EVGA are a good brand but the Zontac is a very decent price for a factory overclocked 760 and a ver good card in it own right.

http://www.bjorn3d.com/2013/06/zotac-geforce-gtx760-amp-edition/#.UdNoe2KbNng

4. One guy had issues with the PCE N15 and recommends I look for a different adapter.

Well what do you guys think? I think second opinions are very important in this sort of thing. In hindsight do you agree with them or do you have a counter argument?

Plenty of other Wifi card under 200 on HWVS if you want something else, I really doubt any are significantly better than the others though.

This isn't really a counter argument, I am just pointing out that the alternative suggestions will all cost you more money, for what I think would give you marginal to no benefit, so its up to yourself how much you want to spend.

solidMGSsnake · 03-07-2013 2:02am

marco_polo wrote: »

Its fine no certainly no worst than the Seagate Barracuda which is it main competitor in that price range, I don't really see the point spending a fortune on a slightly faster HDD, that will still be orders of magnitude slower than an SSD, when you'll be installing most games and applications on the SSD anyway.

I presume they meant VRMs,? the Asrock is a mid range not a budget board and has good features for the price, pretty much any decent z77 motherboard will be well able an i5-3570K to its maximum potential as unlike say the FX8350 for example, it really doesn't draw anyway near enough power for VRM design to become an issue.

Or course EVGA are a good brand but the Zontac is a very decent price for a factory overclocked 760 and a ver good card in it own right.

http://www.bjorn3d.com/2013/06/zotac-geforce-gtx760-amp-edition/#.UdNoe2KbNng

Plenty of other Wifi card under 200 on HWVS if you want something else, I really doubt any are significantly better than the others though.

This isn't really a counter argument, I am just pointing out that the alternative suggestions will all cost you more money, for what I think would give you marginal to no benefit, so its up to yourself how much you want to spend.

Actually the SSD is to install the OS, I can install a few other games that I frequently play but the HDD will be for primary storage.

Yup, you're right. They said VRMs, that was my bad.
Here's what he said: "I would advise away from the ASRock Z77 Extreme 3, especially if you’re planning on doing any overclocking, due to the lower quality VRMs. If you can find it, I would personally suggest the Gigabyte Z77x-UD3H, which is a little bit more expensive." Which another concurred with "I agree. ASRock is just the bargain version of Asus, so if you’re building an expensive system, go with a better brand (like Gigabyte or Asus themselves) instead."

Who make the FX8350?

Their main concern was that they haven't heard of Zontac, but one guy said they were good enough.

Under 200? As in money? That is way too expensive, I'm looking for something around 30 or less.

Thanks for sharing your opinion

If you get a chance, reply to me now that you know what they said, I would also appreciate it if you took a look at my other questions

For example, do I have enough cooling for my rig or will I need another fan?

BloodBath · 03-07-2013 2:51am

People who have issues with Asrock boards have never owned an Asrock board recently. I have overclocked 3 x 3570ks to 4.5 - 4.6ghz with the cheaper pro 3. Two with a 212 evo and one with the slightly worse arctic 13 cooler. Don't be fooled by it's basic size and price. It's by far the best cooler in it's price range and more than up to the task of overclocking ivybridge processors.

I'm not sure if wd have upgraded their black series hdd's at all recently. The newer blue models may well be faster than older blacks. They aren't worth the price premium either way.

AMD make the 8350. Overclocked it uses about twice the power of the 3570k which is why it needs a higher quality board with more phases and better vrm cooling.

The zotac is a bargain at that price. You might get marginal gains with a higher priced 760 but it will be marginal. I didn't realise the evga was so close in price though so go for the evga if you want.

The case comes with 3 stock fans. You could add 2 more if you want to improve the airflow. You may need a 3 pin fan splitter if you do. I'd probably just put the money into a better case instead though.

The nanoxias are great. They come in a few colors as well.

Deep silence two

Deep silence one

marco_polo · 03-07-2013 2:57am

Ha ha meant 20 of course

.

AMD make the FX8350, but you should definately be looking at the i5-3570K on your budget.

There was a CPU cooler included in the original build, it pretty good and should be good enough to get close to the maximal possible air cooling overclocks on the i5. The law of diminishing returns kicks in hard as you spend more.

You could throw in another case fan or two, but with only one GPU it really wouldn't be absolutely essential TBH.

Incidentally the coolteck is good but if you are looking to spend another €30 or so, I'd replace the case with this over spending it on the motherboard personally.

Again nothing wrong with Asrock, TBH while "the poor mans Asus" line may have had a grain of truth it to it a some years back years ago when they were establishing themselves, they are most definitely a established manufacturer now. It no accident that they have steadily climbed to become the third largest motherboard manufacturer behind Gigabyte and Asus.

You don't need the most expensive motherboard and CPU coolers for very high overclocks of the i5-3570K. The Asrock z77 + 212 evo will get you to 4.6 quite easily, is it really worth spending an absolute fortune more chasing that last 100-200MHz with something like the Noctura DH-14 and a much more expensive motherboard?

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2012/05/01/intel-core-i5-3570k-cpu-review/8

The concentration of heat with Ivy Bridge CPUs is proving to be a tricky obstacle to overcome. Air cooling yields much the same results as it did with Sandy Bridge 'K' Series CPUs with 4.6GHz usually an easy target. Using a multiplier of 50x, baseclock of 100MHz and a vcore of 1.4V, we pushed our Core i5-3570K to 5GHz with Extreme Load Line Calibration enabled and C-states disabled too.

However, while our Corsair H100 didn't feel particularly warm, the temperature of our CPU was sky-high and only just below the Tj Max of 105°C. It's clear that the heat density is so high, that modern coolers are simply focussing their efforts on too large an area. High-end water cooling may help to deal with anything significantly higher than 4.8GHz, but this is still a stonking overclock that easily achievable with a high-quality air cooler.

At 5GHz, the Core i5-3570K posted the fastest image editing score in the graphs, bettering the likes of the Core i7-3960X Extreme Edition by quite some margin. Interestingly, the boost was enough to better the Core i7-2600K in our video encoding test too - not bad considering the two CPUs were both clocked at 5GHz, yet the older CPU was equipped with hyper-threading. Arma II: Operation Arrowhead saw a hefty boost in frame rates over the stock speed numbers but the increase in Shogun 2: Total War CPU Test was nothing short of spectacular, with the Core i5-3570K coming top by a noticeable margin, clearly due to its higher clock speed over the Core i7-3770K .

Finally bank transfers are very straightforward, all the more so if you have a good online banking service. Its a bit of hasstle to go to a bank but thats about as bad as it gets.

solidMGSsnake · 05-07-2013 7:34am

Ok here's what I hope is my final build.

Motherboard - Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H
CPU - Intel Core i5-3570K
Graphics Card - EVGA GeForce GTX 760 SuperClocked AXD DR5
CPU Cooler - Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO
RAM - 8GB-Kit GeIL Enhance Corsa
SSD - Samsung SSD 840 120GB
HDD - WD Caviar Blue 1TB
Case - Nanoxia Deep Silence One Dark Black
Optical Drive - LiteOn iHAS124-04
PSU - be quiet! Pure Power 630W
Network Adapter - ASUS PCE-N15
OS - MS Windows 8 64bit (SB-Version) Englisch
Extra SATA Cable (just in case) - LogiLink SATA Anschlusskabel mit Sicherungslasche, 0.5m

This amounts to €1129.38 including estimated shipping.

So what do you guys think? Are all my parts compatible? i.e correct CPU socket in Mobo.

Sorry about not getting the Extreme 3 but I simply wasn't comfortable with it. Nearly everyone I spoke to said it had good features but the board itself was flimsy. A couple of people also said when they got theirs it was damaged and that Asrock refused to refund them a new board as it falls into "physical damage" which Asrock doesn't cover, but they said that they would fix it for $50 plus the person would have to pay shipping. So ya, I decided to go for the Gigabyte. But I appreciate the suggestion and as you can see I took a lot of your build into consideration.

I have a few questions however.

What does it mean it says Delivery Time Unknown? Does that mean there out of the item? Will they get one in stock on purpose if I buy it or will I have to wait ages for it to become available? I would hope all my parts to be here by the end of next week or early the week after. So that isn't going to affect the delivery time by a lot is it?

I read online that I should have at least a 700W PSU for a gaming PC to support everything, more if I'm overclocking. Is this true? My PSU is only 630W, will it be enough?

I also read that the heatsink style on my RAM can sometimes cause problems as depending on the Mobo and Case, it can block the CPU's Cooler or somthing like that. Do you think that would be a problem with mine?

The Optical Drive apparently can't read Duel Layered and R9 (I think that's what it was called, never heard of it myself) discs. Will that be a problem for me? Most of my purchases will be digital like on Steam or whatever but in the even I ever do buy a physical copy of a game, is there a chance I won't be able to use it? Do many retail games use Duel Layered discs or is that mostly reserved for movies and stuff?

I'm still in two minds about getting Win 8 over Win 7. It's just it feels kinda pointless to get the old OS when I'm getting a new PC, it feels like I'm taking a step back. Although while I've used Win 7 before, I've never owned it. My last OS was Win XP (haha). The performance increase and because it's newer tell me to get Win 8 but the apparent driver issues have me concerned. Also the UI is supposed to be awful but I can always simulate a Win 7 UI, right? What should I do?

Since I have around €1260 budget (Maybe more, maybe less. Which is why I just said €1200) I'm not sure what to do with the rest of my money. Should I get a cheap monitor? I have a 32" TV already that I can use but a monitor can display more pixels making them better, also 32" is probably too large since I'll be closer to it.

I've taken a look at a few monitors at a budget of like €100-130 but most only had DVI output not HDMI. However I did find a few of potential monitors:

LG 22EA53VQ-P
Samsung SyncMaster S22B350H
ASUS VE228HR
Special item: Samsung SyncMaster S22B350H
Special item: LG 22EA53VQ-P

What do you guys think of them? I'm not sure if I like that red boarder on the SyncMaster. Do you think it would be distracting or is the picture just making it look worse than it is? Also what's the deal with the whole "Special Item" thing, is it an offer? It just looks like the same monitor but cheaper.

Do these monitors output sound or would I have to buy speakers as well? I don't think I would have enough money for a monitor and speakers.

Do you think the better display of a monitor is worth the additional money or is it better spent on something else?

Such as:

I could I buy a cool gaming keyboard or mouse. Which would be more useful? What brand would ye suggest? If keyboard, what type should I get? I do play a few FPS's but I also want to try games like League of Legends and Starcraft 2 and possibly in the future, MMOs. So would I better fit a mechanical keyboard or one with loads of macros and repositioned keys for MMO/RTS games?

I could also put my money into superior parts, such as getting the WD Black 1TB, a 750W PSU or a better CPU cooler or additional fans.

If I don't get a gaming keyboard then I still need to get a regular one regardless. I already have a generic mouse I found laying around but obviously I need a keyboard too.

If I do end up with getting a monitor then that leaves me with basically no money for a keyboard. But I found a two keyboards under €10 but I only checked the first page of the search results.

Logitech K120 OEM Keyboard - OEM parts don't come with additional wires correct? But what wires would come with a wired USB Keyboard anyway? I don't understand that O_o It also says it's German localisation? What does that mean? It appears to be QWERTY, the only difference being it uses the US standard of having @ being located on the 2 key instead of UK standard which is " on the 2 key, essentially the @ and " locations are swapped. But that doesn't bother me at all unless, it's more than just that change.

Wintech KB-37 Chiclet Keyboard - Ya this appears to use QWERTZ, that being Z and Y are swapped. I don't know if I could get used to that. I mostly mentioned this because it uses flat keys. Which is better regular or flat? Would I have trouble with WASD controls with a flat key'd keyboard?

Am I being too cheap? Would these keyboards be durable or do you think they would be way too flimsy? If I don't get a monitor I can always get one for €20-30 or even a gaming, depending on what ye say above.

Sorry about the really long post but I'm so close to finalizing my build. Thank you so much for all your help so far. I know it's a lot to ask but can you please try to address all my questions. If you can't it's ok though

BloodBath · 05-07-2013 8:11am

That's a lot of questions, ok here goes.

So what do you guys think? Are all my parts compatible? i.e correct CPU socket in Mobo.

Looks fine but the money saved with the 3570k over the 4670k is lost going for the more expensive Gigabyte board. You might as well go for these. If you want high clocks you might want a better cooler. I'd say the 212 evo will still get you to about 4.3ghz though which should be at least as good as the 3570k at 4.6ghz

http://www.hardwareversand.de/Socket+1150/78027/Intel+Core+i5-4670K+Box%2C+LGA1150.article

http://www.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/79672/MSI+Z87-G45+Gaming%2C+ATX%2C+Sockel+1150.article

What does it mean it says Delivery Time Unknown? Does that mean there out of the item? Will they get one in stock on purpose if I buy it or will I have to wait ages for it to become available? I would hope all my parts to be here by the end of next week or early the week after. So that isn't going to affect the delivery time by a lot is it?

They are usually quick to restock. You could always go for an alternative unless it's a core part. You could also source some parts on Amazon if you wanted. Some of the parts are cheaper there and the delivery is free on a lot of items. For example this superior ram is €5 cheaper.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00453P7K6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_10?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

I read online that I should have at least a 700W PSU for a gaming PC to support everything, more if I'm overclocking. Is this true? My PSU is only 630W, will it be enough?

I would say the total system overclocked with 2 x 760's would use 450w max. That leaves enough overhead for it to run efficiently. Get a more powerful one if you want more overhead. The system power 7 700w is around the same price and silver rated but is not modular.

I also read that the heatsink style on my RAM can sometimes cause problems as depending on the Mobo and Case, it can block the CPU's Cooler or somthing like that. Do you think that would be a problem with mine?

It can block some big coolers but the 212 evo doesn't block any ram spaces on most atx boards.

I'm still in two minds about getting Win 8 over Win 7.

Go for 8. If you don't like metro or any other elements of it you can restore it's functionality to be the same as windows 7 or previous versions.

Since I have around €1260 budget (Maybe more, maybe less. Which is why I just said €1200) I'm not sure what to do with the rest of my money. Should I get a cheap monitor? I have a 32" TV already that I can use but a monitor can display more pixels making them better, also 32" is probably too large since I'll be closer to it.

What res is the tv and how old is it? If you're going to be sitting close to it I would say a smaller ips panel would be better. The LG is the one to go for in that price range. You could always use both if you have room for it. You could play games on the smaller screen while running a movie or web page on the larger 32" tv.

http://www.hardwareversand.de/56+cm+(22)+/74645/LG+22EA53VQ-P.article

Also what's the deal with the whole "Special Item" thing

It means it's a returned item that may have superficial damage or missing extras. Don't buy them

Do these monitors output sound or would I have to buy speakers as well? I don't think I would have enough money for a monitor and speakers.

Some do but the sound is usually crap. I would get some speakers. I'm sure the build could be tweaked to get everything in the budget.

I could I buy a cool gaming keyboard or mouse. Which would be more useful? What brand would ye suggest? If keyboard, what type should I get? I do play a few FPS's but I also want to try games like League of Legends and Starcraft 2 and possibly in the future, MMOs. So would I better fit a mechanical keyboard or one with loads of macros and repositioned keys for MMO/RTS games?

If you had mentioned this in the op I could have tried getting all of it in the build. I'll try knocking together another build with all the extras in a while.

I could also put my money into superior parts, such as getting the WD Black 1TB, a 750W PSU or a better CPU cooler or additional fans.

You could but most of those things will have 0 impact on your performance or enjoyment of your pc. A good keyboard and mouse will give you a more positive pc and gaming experience than any of that.

Don't buy keyboards from hwvs as the layout is German.

A 7950 is worth considering over the 760gtx as well. They are priced around the same and the 7950 outperforms it + has the extra gb of vram. I haven't been recommending ati cards for dual gpu setups for a long time because of driver issues but they have been addressed recently and you aren't going dual cards for a while so it could be a better choice.

I'll post up another build in a while. I need a rest after this.

Danger781 · 05-07-2013 8:58am

So what do you guys think? Are all my parts compatible? i.e correct CPU socket in Mobo.

Sorry about not getting the Extreme 3 but I simply wasn't comfortable with it. Nearly everyone I spoke to said it had good features but the board itself was flimsy. A couple of people also said when they got theirs it was damaged and that Asrock refused to refund them a new board as it falls into "physical damage" which Asrock doesn't cover, but they said that they would fix it for $50 plus the person would have to pay shipping. So ya, I decided to go for the Gigabyte. But I appreciate the suggestion and as you can see I took a lot of your build into consideration.

As BloodBath said everything looks grand. However now you've gone and spent an extra €30 or €40 on the mobo which means you have less of a budget for other parts.

The Optical Drive apparently can't read Duel Layered and R9 (I think that's what it was called, never heard of it myself) discs. Will that be a problem for me? Most of my purchases will be digital like on Steam or whatever but in the even I ever do buy a physical copy of a game, is there a chance I won't be able to use it? Do many retail games use Duel Layered discs or is that mostly reserved for movies and stuff?

I genuinely don't know if dual layered is used often. I don't think it is. I've never encountered one anyway so that should be fine. I personally can't remember the last time I even used my DVD drive.

I second BloodBath's opinion on the graphics front. If you plan on overclocking your graphics card, definitely go for the 7950. If you don't, the 760 is faster at stock speeds. In terms of performance they're fairly on par but I would say the 7950 is slightly better due to the larger memory bus.

I'd still go for the 7950 as it's same price, sometimes cheaper depends where you get it. Some retailers will also offer the Never Settle Bundle. OCUK currently giving 8 free games with them.

Amazon selling the 7950 for £208 but no free games.

BloodBath · 05-07-2013 9:09am

Ok worked a bit of magic and came up with this using a mix of Amazon and HWVS. Dropped sli/crossfire support and went with the more powerful 7950. That card should last you a while anyway and you don't really need dual gpu for 1080p. No point paying extra for features you aren't using.

That means I could save a bit on the psu and board as well. I know you are reluctant to go with an Asrock board but buying from Amazon will insure if anything is wrong that they will refund or replace. Check the reviews for that board. All good.

Keep in mind you could be waiting a few weeks for the keyboard but it will be worth it if you have a crappy one to keep you going until then.

I can't get details on delivery time for the ram. Make sure it's not too long. Check all the Amazon items dispatch estimates.

Item|Price
Intel I5 3570k Procesor|€200.43
Asrock Z75 Pro3 Motherboard|€75.69
Sapphire 7950 3gb dual-x graphics card|€249.57
Patriot ddr3 1866mhz cl9 ram|€51.60
CM Storm Quickfire TK Mechanical keyboard|€59.36
Samsung SSD 840 120GB SATA 6Gb/s|€84.70
WD Caviar Blue 1TB 6Gb's|€56.22
Cooltek Antiphon Silver, ohne Netzteil|€63.00
Corsair 500w modular psu|€58.03
LiteOn iHAS124-04 schwarz SATA|€16.31
Wavemaster MX-3+|€39.99
Sharkoon Drakonia Gaming Laser Mouse|€24.31
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
LogiLink SATA Anschlusskabel mit Sicherungslasche, 0.5m|€0.63
ASUS PCE-N15|€14.90
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - Intel/AMD|€28.78
MS Windows 8 64bit (SB-Version) Englisch|€84.71
LG 22EA53VQ-P|€126.26
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€1260.47

Danger781 · 05-07-2013 9:48am

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9129432/c_1/1%7Ccategory_root%7COffice%2C+PCs+and+phones%7C14418968/Trail/searchtext%3ELG.htm

This monitor is cheaper and IPS

solidMGSsnake · 05-07-2013 9:23pm

BloodBath wrote: »

Ok worked a bit of magic and came up with this using a mix of Amazon and HWVS. Dropped sli/crossfire support and went with the more powerful 7950. That card should last you a while anyway and you don't really need dual gpu for 1080p. No point paying extra for features you aren't using.

That means I could save a bit on the psu and board as well. I know you are reluctant to go with an Asrock board but buying from Amazon will insure if anything is wrong that they will refund or replace. Check the reviews for that board. All good.

Keep in mind you could be waiting a few weeks for the keyboard but it will be worth it if you have a crappy one to keep you going until then.

I can't get details on delivery time for the ram. Make sure it's not too long. Check all the Amazon items dispatch estimates.

Item|Price
Intel I5 3570k Procesor|€200.43
Asrock Z75 Pro3 Motherboard|€75.69
Sapphire 7950 3gb dual-x graphics card|€249.57
Patriot ddr3 1866mhz cl9 ram|€51.60
CM Storm Quickfire TK Mechanical keyboard|€59.36
Samsung SSD 840 120GB SATA 6Gb/s|€84.70
WD Caviar Blue 1TB 6Gb's|€56.22
Cooltek Antiphon Silver, ohne Netzteil|€63.00
Corsair 500w modular psu|€58.03
LiteOn iHAS124-04 schwarz SATA|€16.31
Wavemaster MX-3+|€39.99
Sharkoon Drakonia Gaming Laser Mouse|€24.31
Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat|€6.99
LogiLink SATA Anschlusskabel mit Sicherungslasche, 0.5m|€0.63
ASUS PCE-N15|€14.90
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - Intel/AMD|€28.78
MS Windows 8 64bit (SB-Version) Englisch|€84.71
LG 22EA53VQ-P|€126.26
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€1260.47

How do you mean the card is going to last me "a while"? I would hope it would have as long of a life as any.

Ya I'm still really reluctant on using Asrock because besides you, nearly everyone else I asked told me they were awful. Said they offered good features but were way too flimsy and literally bendy. Also that board doesn't seem to even have USB 3.0. I can't seem to find that comment where the guy said the customer service was bad but I'm almost certain he said that he bought it through Amazon and that they told him that the warranty was handled through Asrock.

"Looks fine but the money saved with the 3570k over the 4670k is lost going for the more expensive Gigabyte board." I don't really understand what you mean by that? How is that wasting money? I simply put spare money into a better board, are you saying they would bottleneck or something?

Also that CPU and Mobo you suggested did actually look nice, I might consider them.

I actually have no keyboard whatsoever, so I can't just wait, unless I also buy a very cheap one to keep me going. What does the mechanical keyboard mean what it says it's "NKRO over USB for unlimited simultaneous keystrokes"? It doesn't connect through USB?

Honestly I wasn't expecting you to change the whole build to work around what are basically "extras".
I was only saying what should I do with the excess money.

My 32" is only 720p as far as I know, I checked on google but couldn't verify if the TVs were same I my one. It's a Techwood 32" LCD TV Model No: 32911LCDHD.

In order to accommodate the extras onto this build. You had to take money out of the parts and into the peripherals. I can't see how this build would be almost just as powerful as the first build I had in the OP.

I can always use my 32" now and get a monitor later down the line and I have a generic mouse I can use until later I get my gaming mouse, not everything has to be included in this initial build.
Also what do you think of Danger781's suggestion of a monitor over the one you suggested?

However I you honestly believe that I can still get virtually the same performance out of my PC using these parts then I'll consider it.

Also the €1260 was only an estimate, you don't expect to completely use your whole budget down to the last cent. Besides I could only have something like €1230. I don't know for sure until I get some money people owe me and check me current balance at the bank as well.

Where did you convert the £ to to € from? I would expect it would be a lot more than that. Also I don't think this build took Amazon shipping into account.

Also If I wait about another week, I might get an extra €50-100 together from a friend. How changing are the prices? Do you think if I wait another week the prices will all increase?

Danger781 wrote: »

As BloodBath said everything looks grand. However now you've gone and spent an extra €30 or €40 on the mobo which means you have less of a budget for other parts.

I genuinely don't know if dual layered is used often. I don't think it is. I've never encountered one anyway so that should be fine. I personally can't remember the last time I even used my DVD drive.

I second BloodBath's opinion on the graphics front. If you plan on overclocking your graphics card, definitely go for the 7950. If you don't, the 760 is faster at stock speeds. In terms of performance they're fairly on par but I would say the 7950 is slightly better due to the larger memory bus.

I'd still go for the 7950 as it's same price, sometimes cheaper depends where you get it. Some retailers will also offer the Never Settle Bundle. OCUK currently giving 8 free games with them.

Amazon selling the 7950 for £208 but no free games.

Could you link me to that exact deal? I wasn't able to find it.

Thanks for you help so far and for being patent with me

thegame983 · 05-07-2013 11:26pm

What they mean re: the motherboard is if you are spending that much you negate the reason for getting the i5-3750k in the first place. for that money you can get this

http://www.hardwareversand.de/Socket+1150/78027/Intel+Core+i5-4670K+Box%2C+LGA1150.article

and this

http://www.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/79672/MSI+Z87-G45+Gaming%2C+ATX%2C+Sockel+1150.article

I'm mulling over this same question for my prospective build

EoinHef · 06-07-2013 12:30am

How do you mean the card is going to last me "a while"?

1.By this im sure he means that a 7950 should be able to play games at or near to max settings for the next few years. The 1st bloodbath build had a less powerful gpu but supported sli/crossfire so you could add a second gpu down the line if you needed it. Hence the second bloodbath build is going to last awhile longer before in need of an upgrade cause of the more powerful gpu,the 7950.
He was not referring to the reliability of the card

Ya I'm still really reluctant on using Asrock

2.An awful lot of people here use asrock boards,including myself,and have no complaints. If you check other build threads nearly everyone is using them

"Looks fine but the money saved with the 3570k over the 4670k is lost going for the more expensive Gigabyte board."

3.Fairly sure he meant the saving you would have made by going ivy bridge over haswell could have been spent elsewhere in the build to improve performance. Rather than spending the extra money on a more expensive board and processor (which give you no better performance) you could have got a slightly better gpu say or a bigger ssd. I see you say you telly might be 720p. You could spend extra cash on a 1080p monitor by going Ivy Bridge at no loss to performance. Haswells advancements seem to mostly relate to power usage not performance

"In order to accommodate the extras onto this build. You had to take money out of the parts and into the peripherals. I can't see how this build would be almost just as powerful as the first build I had in the OP"

4.The only part that was really sacrificed was the option for Sli/Crossfire in the second build. Hence he speced a 7950 which i think should perform not too far off a 770 so no performance loss really and should play games at max for a few years at a saving and you also got all the peripherals. If you really wanted the 770 just use the build and change the 7950 for the 770. Dont underestimate the value of say a good monitor though,no use having a beast of a pc and a display that doesnt do it justice

These are all only options,you've got 2 builds there,3 including the OP one, that all have there own advantages and disadvantages.
Its a tough choice,id suggest the best value for me would be bloodbaths second build. Your getting a very good gaming pc and all the peripherals to take advantage of it

BloodBath · 06-07-2013 9:23am

I'm not going to keep trying to convince you. This is my last post on the topic. Do whatever you want.

Ya I'm still really reluctant on using Asrock because besides you, nearly everyone else I asked told me they were awful. Said they offered good features but were way too flimsy and literally bendy. Also that board doesn't seem to even have USB 3.0. I can't seem to find that comment where the guy said the customer service was bad but I'm almost certain he said that he bought it through Amazon and that they told him that the warranty was handled through Asrock.

Maybe stop asking people who know nothing about pc's and read some reviews by professionals? The majority of us here use Asrock boards. I'd say at least 50-70% of the board recommendations here are Asrock and I haven't seen a single person complain about them yet. I know many people IRL who also use Asrock boards, I use an Asrock board, and none of us have had any issues. If that's not a good enough recommendation for you combined with the many many good reviews by reputable websites then by all means go with something else.

"Looks fine but the money saved with the 3570k over the 4670k is lost going for the more expensive Gigabyte board." I don't really understand what you mean by that? How is that wasting money? I simply put spare money into a better board, are you saying they would bottleneck or something?

I explained that already. I linked you the haswell parts that cost the same price. If a board offers the exact same features and performance at a lower price then I would call it a "better board". You might get potential higher overclocks with a more expensive board but only if you have exotic cooling. You end up paying loads more for a couple of hundred mhz at most.

I actually have no keyboard whatsoever, so I can't just wait, unless I also buy a very cheap one to keep me going. What does the mechanical keyboard mean what it says it's "NKRO over USB for unlimited simultaneous keystrokes"? It doesn't connect through USB?

Then buy a cheap one in Tesco or Argos for €10 to keep you going. You will understand why the mechanical is so much better when you use it. NKRO means the keyboard will register an unlimited number of keys at the same time unlike most keyboards that have a max of around 5. It connects through usb or ps2.

Honestly I wasn't expecting you to change the whole build to work around what are basically "extras".
I was only saying what should I do with the excess money.

Those extras will improve your gaming experience more than a tiny bit of extra cpu power. The gpu I listed is more powerful. The 3570k is only about 10% slower than the 4670k but will overclock higher with a 212 evo. There will be virtually 0 difference in games between the 2. The only thing you are losing is dual gpu support which you won't need for 1080p anyway.

My 32" is only 720p as far as I know, I checked on google but couldn't verify if the TVs were same I my one. It's a Techwood 32" LCD TV Model No: 32911LCDHD.

All the more reason to pick up the 1080p monitor then. Double the resolution in a smaller screen is going to give you a far better picture quality and experience.

In order to accommodate the extras onto this build. You had to take money out of the parts and into the peripherals. I can't see how this build would be almost just as powerful as the first build I had in the OP.

It is. The cpu clock for clock is only about 10% slower but as I've said already the 3570k will overclock higher with a 212 evo and even at the same speeds you won't see any difference in performance in games. The 7950 overclocked has around the same power as a 770gtx + has an additional 1gb of vram.

I can always use my 32" now and get a monitor later down the line and I have a generic mouse I can use until later I get my gaming mouse, not everything has to be included in this initial build.
Also what do you think of Danger781's suggestion of a monitor over the one you suggested?

You could if you wanted an inferior experience with almost identical performance.

However I you honestly believe that I can still get virtually the same performance out of my PC using these parts then I'll consider it.

I do and you should.

Also the €1260 was only an estimate, you don't expect to completely use your whole budget down to the last cent. Besides I could only have something like €1230. I don't know for sure until I get some money people owe me and check me current balance at the bank as well.

I hadn't intended on using every last penny. I knocked the build together using any bargains I knew about and it came to that price. I was trying to keep it under €1200. There's probably still room to knock about €20-30 off the price. If you're short you could always drop something like the mechanical keyboard and get it later.

Where did you convert the £ to to € from? I would expect it would be a lot more than that. Also I don't think this build took Amazon shipping into account.

XE.com. It might be a little more but not a lot more. Amazon shipping is free on those items.

Also If I wait about another week, I might get an extra €50-100 together from a friend. How changing are the prices? Do you think if I wait another week the prices will all increase?

I doubt it but it's always a possibility.

Gumbi · 06-07-2013 12:33pm

Honestly, Bloodbath knows what he's talking about. Absolutely no need for Haswell if gaming. People on first gen i5s/7s are still fine for gaming if overclocked. And that's not conceding anything. The GPU will still be the bottleneck.

7950 is simply a fantastic buy. I will disagree with BB a bit on the performance. The 770 is faster. My friends Windforce one (factory OC, but sher so does my own) is slightly faster than my own card even when overclocked to 1200mz, and most people should expect 1100mhz from their 7950 (1200 costs a lot heat wise and from a sound perspective!). But here's the crux of it all - my friend is still a bit bummed that I have near the same performance (something like only 5% behind), and I paid less money for the card OVER 8 MONTHS AGO. I paid 330 quid for my card in September, my friend paid 329 POUNDS for his own only 2 weeks ago.

The 7950 is simply a fantastic card for the price. And you shouldn't "go with your gut" on other components if you don't really know what you're talking about.

€1200 Gaming Build

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