€1200 Gaming Build

solidMGSsnake

Monotype wrote: »

Don't be so lazy!
A few quick clicks show the price of the RAM and keyboard have gone up considerably.
It was a good deal at the time. You'll have to pay more and get lower speeds. You could go with something like this. You might be able to save a few euro by going with 1333MHz RAM, but not a whole lot.
http://www.hardwareversand.de/1600+Low+Voltage/44314/8GB-Kit+G-Skill+RipJaws+PC3-12800U+CL9.article

Given the number of extras you need, you might be better off going with an AMD system to keep with your budget.

Edit:
Or dump the CPU cooler, use the one that Intel gives and buy a better one later.

Well that was unnecessarily mean, if you read one of my previous posts, you would of seen that I did in fact mention the RAM raising in price. So get your facts right instead of making accusations.

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

Hey Bloodbath, I just put all the Amazon items on the last build through checkout and it's coming to £666.63 with free shipping (€770.60 according to google).

The HWVS items are coming to €566.79 including shipping.

That according to my calculations is coming to €1337.39. That doesn't include the other keyboard or bluetooth. Obviously too much. So where did you get €1260 from?

Amazon also says, estimated dispatch is 16th August - 2nd October, what's going on?

EDIT: Oh wait I think that's because of the gaming keyboard, I'm going to have to buy that separately now.

The RAM itself has doubled in price and is more expensive than my mobo, unless I get it through Comet or something like that for £47.

See?

Anyhow, a thought occurred to me, if I use headphones (big Sony €35 ones) then would it make more sense to drop the speakers until I get more money? Or would the sound be too bad.

Would using the stock cooler be safe? I don't want my CPU to fry.

marco_polo

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

According to what he said, it made me think the price of the games is apart of the Graphics Cards' price, I never said the price isn't included. But if that money is combined with the graphics card then the original price of the graphics card was obviously slightly cheaper and if it's slightly cheaper then it has to be slightly worse as well, get it?

...............

Not really the price of the cards were the same in June before the deal and will be the same in August after the deal ends.

There is a large banner on the site saying OCUK mega games bundle free with selected graphics cards, and on the previous page a link was provided to all the relevant cards, so I don't see how there can be any confusion on the matter.

solidMGSsnake

marco_polo wrote: »

Not really the price of the cards were the same in June before the deal and will be the same in August after the deal ends.

There is a large banner on the site saying OCUK mega games bundle free with selected graphics cards, and on the previous page a link was provided to all the relevant cards, so I don't see how there can be any confusion on the matter.

It doesn't matter, the card is too expensive besides one of them which Bloodbath said isn't as good, so I can't take the deal.

However are these type of deals frequent enough? I could always use it next time.

Monotype

I had read your post earlier on in the day before you edited it. Apologies. You did ask a second time though and you've answered the question yourself - the keyboard and RAM increases account for €60 of a difference. There's probably some other small differences that make up the rest - possibly even a change in the currency conversion rate.
Missing some data here, but it looks like the currency has stayed much the same or improved slightly for us. http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=EURGBP%3DX#symbol=;range=5d;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

OK, the way I see it is that your options are to switch to a cheaper build - i.e., AMD, or have a look at where you can save some money. Now you don't want to start cutting out SSDs as that makes a big difference. What about that mouse mat? Or the heatsink? Without the heatsink, it'll be a bit noisier and not so good for overclocking, but it's something that you can pick up later. Have you got an old mat to use? Or just use the cardboard packing that comes with the components for the time being! (Actually being kind of serious)
Does that bring you down to budget yet?
You can save €6 by getting the non-modular CX500. The CX500M is a nice bonus, but in reality it's only a few cables that are modular so it's not going to make the world of difference. It's the same PSU aside from that.
http://www.hardwareversand.de/400+-+500+Watts/69044/Corsair+Builder+Serie+CX500+V3+Non-Modular+80%2B+Bronze%2C+500+Watt.article

solidMGSsnake

Monotype wrote: »

I had read your post earlier on in the day before you edited it. Apologies. You did ask a second time though and you've answered the question yourself - the keyboard and RAM increases account for €60 of a difference. There's probably some other small differences that make up the rest - possibly even a change in the currency conversion rate.
Missing some data here, but it looks like the currency has stayed much the same or improved slightly for us. http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=EURGBP%3DX#symbol=;range=5d;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

OK, the way I see it is that your options are to switch to a cheaper build - i.e., AMD, or have a look at where you can save some money. Now you don't want to start cutting out SSDs as that makes a big difference. What about that mouse mat? Or the heatsink? Without the heatsink, it'll be a bit noisier and not so good for overclocking, but it's something that you can pick up later. Have you got an old mat to use? Or just use the cardboard packing that comes with the components for the time being! (Actually being kind of serious)
Does that bring you down to budget yet?
You can save €6 by getting the non-modular CX500. The CX500M is a nice bonus, but in reality it's only a few cables that are modular so it's not going to make the world of difference. It's the same PSU aside from that.
http://www.hardwareversand.de/400+-+500+Watts/69044/Corsair+Builder+Serie+CX500+V3+Non-Modular+80%2B+Bronze%2C+500+Watt.article

The reason why I'm not 100% on my budget is because I have some money in my account from ages ago and I don't remember how much exactly is there.
I have accumulated €1175 money, from what I remember I have roughly €70 euro in my account, maybe more but probably not. so that leaves me with €1245, I'm also in the process of getting €50 from a friend to help with the budget, so I basically actually have €1300 give or take.

So really I only need to get rid of around €35, maybe €40 for good measure.

What's your opinion on not getting the speakers and just using my headphones? Because that would save me around €60 which is plenty. I'm sure I have a mouse mat around here somewhere but it was very thin, almost cardboard and it didn't stick to the desk at all, it always moved around the place. But I'm not even sure I have that. But a mouse mat is something I'm sure I could do without or at least get a cheaper one.

I also need to get a keyboard, probably that one for £4.99 if I'm scrimping and if I'm very lucky, a cheap Bluetooth dongle.

No I won't change to AMD at this stage, besides those I've spoken to on the subject told me that while AMD is cheaper, their parts aren't as good for an Intel at the same price and AMD only get good when you pay a lot.

To be honest I really wouldn't change to a non-modular unless absolutely necessary.

Monotype

I wouldn't scrap speakers really. You could have a look to see if there's a cheaper set but I certainly wouldn't go headphones only.
Headphones are fine, but if you're wearing them for a few hours and nearly every day, your ears tend to get sore, even if you have a comfy set.

Um... AMD aren't the same price as Intel. All of their CPUs are cheaper than the 3570K, server and special editions aside. Their motherboards are cheaper on top of that. They're actually better performance for the price. The problem is that the CPUs are weaker. On the flip side, you get more cores. Where this comes into play is that many games only use 2-4 cores. So Intel CPUs will do better in this case. However, in applications that can use 6-8 cores, AMD catches up. The new consoles will be built using AMD 8-cores, so it's likely that games will move in the direction of using up to 8 cores. However, that's the future and not now and Intel still leads in the majority of games made before now.

Just to make you aware of the kind of prices, it's just over €100 for the FX6300 (6 cores) and just over €140 for the 8320 (8 cores).
http://www.hardwareversand.de/Socket+AM3/68997/AMD+FX-6300+Prozessor%2C+Boxed%2C+Sockel+AM3%2B.article
http://www.hardwareversand.de/Socket+AM3/68994/AMD+FX-8320+Prozessor%2C+Boxed%2C+Sockel+AM3%2B.article

The 6300 is really good value for what you're getting at half the price of the 3570K. Even though you lose out on some performance, do bear in mind that the bulk of games are restricted by GPU performance, not CPU, so a slower CPU won't hold you back anyway. You'd also be in the position to upgrade to AMD's next generation of CPUs due some time later this year.

All that said, you'd want to check out that you have a bit more money that you intend to spend. You wouldn't be exactly sure of how much the stuff from amazon.co.uk is going to cost with conversion rates, so you'd want a bit extra.

I think that leaving out the heatsink is the best way to go to avoid disturbing your build too much.

solidMGSsnake

Monotype wrote: »

I wouldn't scrap speakers really. You could have a look to see if there's a cheaper set but I certainly wouldn't go headphones only.
Headphones are fine, but if you're wearing them for a few hours and nearly every day, your ears tend to get sore, even if you have a comfy set.

Um... AMD aren't the same price as Intel. All of their CPUs are cheaper than the 3570K, server and special editions aside. Their motherboards are cheaper on top of that. They're actually better performance for the price. The problem is that the CPUs are weaker. On the flip side, you get more cores. Where this comes into play is that many games only use 2-4 cores. So Intel CPUs will do better in this case. However, in applications that can use 6-8 cores, AMD catches up. The new consoles will be built using AMD 8-cores, so it's likely that games will move in the direction of using up to 8 cores. However, that's the future and not now and Intel still leads in the majority of games made before now.

Just to make you aware of the kind of prices, it's just over €100 for the FX6300 (6 cores) and just over €140 for the 8320 (8 cores).
http://www.hardwareversand.de/Socket+AM3/68997/AMD+FX-6300+Prozessor%2C+Boxed%2C+Sockel+AM3%2B.article
http://www.hardwareversand.de/Socket+AM3/68994/AMD+FX-8320+Prozessor%2C+Boxed%2C+Sockel+AM3%2B.article

The 6300 is really good value for what you're getting at half the price of the 3570K. Even though you lose out on some performance, do bear in mind that the bulk of games are restricted by GPU performance, not CPU, so a slower CPU won't hold you back anyway. You'd also be in the position to upgrade to AMD's next generation of CPUs due some time later this year.

All that said, you'd want to check out that you have a bit more money that you intend to spend. You wouldn't be exactly sure of how much the stuff from amazon.co.uk is going to cost with conversion rates, so you'd want a bit extra.

I think that leaving out the heatsink is the best way to go to avoid disturbing your build too much.

If I did opt to leave out my heatsink, would I still be able to overclock?Or would I better of not overclocking until I upgraded the heatsink.

Danger781

Monotype wrote: »

The problem is that the CPUs are weaker.

What? How are they weaker?

Lu Tze

Danger781 wrote: »

What? How are they weaker?

They have a lower per core performance, which is highly relevant as not much software can benefit from the additional cores of the amd, whereas lots of software benefits from the higher per core performance of the intel, especially all the single and dual threaded programs out there. Starcraft 2 being the game example that seems to be thrown out there a lot

Danger781

Lu Tze wrote: »

They have a lower per core performance, which is highly relevant as not much software can benefit from the additional cores of the amd, whereas lots of software benefits from the higher per core performance of the intel, especially all the single and dual threaded programs out there. Starcraft 2 being the game example that seems to be thrown out there a lot

Ah, I see. My un-caffeinated brain assumed you meant physically weaker and was very confused. :rolleyes:

Monotype

I was just putting it in layman's terms. So a dual core AMD at 2GHz is slower than 2GHz Intel.
Now, you get more cores from AMD and it's cheaper, so if the software utilises the cores, you're better off.
There are a few games that an 8320 will even beat a 3570K, even though it's cheaper - but it's literally only a few. Crysis 3 showed quite significant figures. Was Far Cry 3 another? - I can't find any benchmarks off-hand. As I said, we're likely to see more of this given the console architecture, but it's going to be a few years.

Regarding overclocking with the heatsink from Intel... yeah, you can overclock a bit. You'd probably be okay going up to 3.8GHz or 4GHz. I've seen people get reasonable overclocks, but I don't know what the noise level is then if the fan is spinning at a high speed.

solidMGSsnake

The only thing is I don't think removing the Mouse Pad and Heatsink will be enough, unless maybe I get cheaper RAM as well but I don't want to make my computer slow either.

I'll probably deposit my money in the bank tomorrow anyway, who knows, I might be surprised, either in a good way or a bad way.

But according to my estimations, including that €50 I'm to get, I SHOULD have €1300, so I need to lose roughly €40, unless I can get money from someone else, but I doubt it.

Also I was talking to someone and they told me my PSU is only designed to last me 3 years, is this true?

Lu Tze

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

Also I was talking to someone and they told me my PSU is only designed to last me 3 years, is this true?

No,its not true, if you get a decent PSU it should last years, most of the warranty is greater than 3 years anyway.

Post up your planned build as it is now, with pricing, if you are looking to bring the cost down somebody might spot the best place to cut with minimal performance hit.

Monotype

LOL at PSU lasting 3 years. They can break after less than that, but I'd expect them to last a long time. You'll probably want to replace it 5 years down the road or maybe a bit after because they do degrade with wear and tear.

Warranty is 3 years for the CXv3 line, iirc. That's normal enough for your average PSU. Top end ones can have warranties of 5 or even 7 years.

I had a dig around and found this RAM on amazon. It is out of stock, so I don't know if they would have it to you very fast - amazon can be quite variable when they say this.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9G-Vengeance-Voltage-Performance/dp/B006E0670W/
Also the heatspreaders are a little chunky, so you would need to search around and see if there's enough room to fit them in with your heatsink. I don't think the heatsink you had is huge anyway, so it probably wouldn't be an issue.

solidMGSsnake

I think he was talking about my PSU specifically, not PSU's in general. Also, aren't your warranties void if you overclock?

Ok here's my build, the £s have being converted using the tool on google, so I don't know how accurate it is.

Amazon
CPU - Intel 3rd Generation Core i5-3570K €200.57
Motherboard - ASRock Z75 Pro3 €76.23
Graphics Card - Sapphire AMD Radeon HD 7950 €253.78
RAM - Patriot ddr3 1866mhz cl9 ram €80.20 (very expensive)
Mechanical Keyboard - Cooler Master CM Storm Quick Fire TK €84.18
PSU - Corsair Builder Series CXM 500W Modular €57.92
Temporary Keyboard - CiT USB/PS2 Combo Keyboard - Black €5.45

Total - €758.33 (free shipping)

I'm not sure what temporary keyboard to get, they are all roughly the same price, I included one of them in the build just for the average price but which should I go for?

CiT USB/PS2 Combo Keyboard - Black €5.45
Logitech K120 Business Keyboard €5.23
Octigen JK-302D USB Slim Keyboard - Black €5.80

As for the gaming keyboard the blue, red and brown are roughly the same price now, and the red can be delivered earlier by a 3rd party, should I go for that or stay with Amazon and which key colour should I get? If I did opt to get it from the 3rd party on Amazon then I wouldn't need the temporary keyboard either.

HWVS
SSD -Samsung SSD 840 120GB €85.04
HDD - WD Caviar Blue 1TB €57.40
Case - Cooltek Antiphon Black €61.13
Optical Drive - LiteOn iHAS124-04 €16.36
Speakers - Wavemaster MX-3+ €39.99
Gaming Mouse - Sharkoon Drakonia Gaming Laser Mouse €24.02
Mouse Mat - Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat €6.99
SATA Cable - LogiLink SATA Anschlusskabel mit Sicherungslasche, 0.5m €1.39
Net Adapter - ASUS PCE-N15 €14.90
CPU Cooler - Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO €29.73
OS - MS Windows 8 64bit (SB-Version) €85.33
Monitor - LG 22EA53VQ-P €125.83
Bluetooth - LogiLink Mini Bluetooth Dongle €5.39

Wow even the SATA cable is more expensive, would I be able to use this SATA cable instead:

LogiLink SATA 0.3m €0.63

Or is that a different size socket? Anyway I don't think an extra euro will help.

Total - €572.49 (including €18.99 shipping estimate)

Complete total - €1330.82 (phew, it's a lot but I honestly thought it would be more when I was adding it up)

Ok so ya I probably have to lose €40 unless I get it off someone but since I'm already getting an extra €50 so I doubt it.

marco_polo

You could knock about 30 off with a decent DDR3 1600 kit instead, it not really worth nearly 50% more for a few percent performance increase.

Something like this is much cheaper and you'd never notice the difference day to day.

EDIT: Also take into account that the higher rate of Irish VAT (23%) will increase the price of your current Amazon order by about €20 I reckon to 775-780 or thereabouts at checkout, for example the i5-3570K will work out €7 cheaper on HWVS €201 vs €208 (because HWVS don't have to add the extra VAT on whereas Amazon do because of the volume of business they do in Ireland)

solidMGSsnake

marco_polo wrote: »

You could knock about 30 off with a decent DDR3 1600 kit instead, it not really worth nearly 50% more for a few percent performance increase.

Something like this is much cheaper and you'd never notice the difference day to day.

EDIT: Also take into account that the higher rate of Irish VAT (23%) will increase the price of your current Amazon order by about €20 I reckon to 775-780 or thereabouts at checkout, for example the i5-3570K will work out €7 cheaper on HWVS €201 vs €208 (because HWVS don't have to add the extra VAT on whereas Amazon do because of the volume of business they do in Ireland)

Damn you're right, the Amazon total is actually coming to €777.62

Making the whole build €1350.11.

God damn it! Why can't anything be simple -_-

Well I can swap to that RAM you suggested. Also are you telling me to get my CPU on HWVS?

Using that RAM instead it's coming to €749.13

Which makes my build €1321.62

Also I'm still not sure how to buy items on HWVS, I think they're saying that I send them the money and afterwards they will send me the items. That sounds a bit iffy doesn't it? What's stopping them from ripping me off? (I'm not saying they will, obviously all you guys use it fine, but why don't they just take your money)

Also I have no idea how to do a bank transfer and I think to do a transfer it costs additional money. This is ridiculous -_-

marco_polo

Just cause its seven euro cheaper and since you're already a little over budget and getting some parts there anyway then why not?

Technically there's nothing stopping them running away with your money, but it hasn't happened to anyone in at least 4-5 years of ordering from them on this forum so they are a reputable business.

Slightly higher end parts tend to have very high premiums so the lower cost of the more mainstream DDR3 1600 RAM isn't that unusual.

solidMGSsnake

marco_polo wrote: »

Just cause its seven euro cheaper and since you're already a little over budget and getting some parts there anyway then why not?

I have no idea what you're talking about, why not what?

Ya I'm not worried about buying from HWVS but seriously I have no idea how to do a bank transfer, why can't they just accept my Visa Debit card like Amazon?

Wait so are you saying the cheaper RAM doesn't use good parts?

marco_polo

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

I have no idea what you're talking about, why not what?

Ya I'm not worried about buying from HWVS but seriously I have no idea how to do a bank transfer, why can't they just accept my Visa Debit card like Amazon?

Wait so are you saying the cheaper RAM doesn't use good parts?

I mean why not add the CPU to the HWVS order. I don't know why they don't take Visa debit.

On the RAM point I am saying that you get charged an arm and a leg for slightly faster RAM, not that the other is of poor quality.

solidMGSsnake

Oh I wasn't disputing it, I was only clarifying if that is what you were saying.

BTW you wouldn't happen to know how many cables and stuff come with the Asrock Z75 Pro 3 do you? I can't find a site that tells me anywhere. I found an unboxing video on youtube, but my laptop is so slow, I can't watch it.

EDIT: Nevermind, the video finally decided to work. It comes with only 2 SATA cables, one regular, one 90 degree, including the extra SATA cable I'm buying will 3 SATA cables be enough? I have a HDD, SDD and an Optical Drive, but is there anything else to plug in using SATA cables?

Also is there any other cables I could possibly be lacking? I don't want to be half way through building my PC to discover I need one more of a certain cable.

Finally, since I'm so close to buying this and the build is basically finalized. Is everything compatible with each other? Correct CPU socket, case big enough etc.

marco_polo

Two according to the accessories listed on the AsRock page for the board which is fairly standard for most boards

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z75%20Pro3/?cat=Specifications

solidMGSsnake

Ya thanks for your help but I already found out

Can you look back up at my previous post again? I'm after editing it with a few more questions.

marco_polo

You're good to go comparability wise anyway, you shouldn't need anything else by my reckoning, any other cables you will be using will be part of the PSU or case.

solidMGSsnake

Ok thanks very much, I'll come back on here tomorrow after going to the bank and I'll tell you guys exactly how much money I have.
By time I do this and then have to wait another day for the bank transfer, I hope the prices don't change again. -_-

So unless anyone else wants to add something (I'll still check this thread throughout tonight) I guess it's see ya tomorrow

EDIT: But before I go, any idea on what switch I should get on my gaming keyboard? Red, Blue or Brown? Also should I wait the 1-3 months by Amazon or get it from AV-ELECTRONIX GmbH through Amazon for faster delivery? Because I won't need the temporary keyboard if I get it straight away. But I think I have to pay for shipping

Here's what I'm talking about if you're confused:

Cooler Master CM Storm PRO Fire Rapid Mechanical Keyboard - Red (Dispatched from and sold by AV-ELECTRONIX GmbH.)

Monotype

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

Ya I'm not worried about buying from HWVS but seriously I have no idea how to do a bank transfer, why can't they just accept my Visa Debit card like Amazon?

Wait so are you saying the cheaper RAM doesn't use good parts?

They have to pay fees to visa/mastercard when you use credit (and debit) cards. I think it's something like 5%.
So if they're not paying these fees, they can make the products cheaper. Or collect more profit.
It's standard practice in Germany, apparently.

Bank transfer is easy enough. You could do it with online banking, or if you're not registered, you can do it in the bank. Make sure they don't charge you for it, because it probably means they're doing a rush transfer. It should be free with most banks if you have an account with them (aside from minimal transaction fees, depending on your account type).

The cheaper RAM is 1600MHz as opposed to 1866MHz. Faster RAM makes very little difference unless you have a heavily overclocked CPU. 1866MHz RAM is rarely recommended - it's just that this particular set was cheap.

It looks like you're good to go. The only other thing I'd recommend is homeplugs instead of wireless, but that's only going to add additional cost, so perhaps another time you could consider it.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-PA411KIT-AV500-Powerline-Adapter/dp/B0084Y9N3O

solidMGSsnake

Ya I remember you mentioning them before, but I don't understand, they look more like plugs that increase the range of your Wi-Fi, not something that give your PC wireless capability. I asked that before but you never replied. Anyhow you're right, I can't afford them.

Keimps

Why don't you drop the SSD and upgrade your GPU
You'll see a lot more gaming difference in FPS with a better GPU than with an SSD.


And apart from that you will be fine with a caviar blue for now. Then you can add an SSD in a later stage.
Easy to upgrade your system by adding an SSD, you won't have the same with a GPU.

solidMGSsnake

I can just as easily upgrade a graphics card as I can a SSD, can't I? I'm going to be installing my OS on the SSD, so if I didn't get it until later I would have to reinstall my entire OS, which would be very annoying and I would probably need a bigger HDD. Also I'm getting Windows 8 OEM, so I'm pretty sure I only get one use with it and then it's gone. So I would have buy another OS as well, but I could be wrong about that.

By how much am I losing out on with this graphics card instead of a better one? Because I've been assured multiple times that my performance will be very similar. According to them I can still run nearly every game on best graphics and only struggle with games like Crysis 3 but in which case, I can fiddle with the graphics a little to get the game running with still great graphics and performance.

Danger781

Keimps wrote: »

Why don't you drop the SSD and upgrade your GPU
You'll see a lot more gaming difference in FPS with a better GPU than with an SSD.


And apart from that you will be fine with a caviar blue for now. Then you can add an SSD in a later stage.
Easy to upgrade your system by adding an SSD, you won't have the same with a GPU.

You'll see the most advantage from a SSD in everything else.