€1200 Gaming Build

Keimps

can just as easily upgrade a graphics card as I can a SSD, can't I?

Well, technically it is easier to upgrade a GPU yes.
I was referring to the fact that if you have a 100€ to spare (for example) next month, then you can upgrade your PC by adding an SSD.
If you would go with your current build and you would have a 100€ to spare, you won't be able to upgrade your GPU.
Upgrading your GPU would then need ~350-400 for a higher model GPU (which wouldn't be worth the money if you're upgrading), or another ~250€ to go crossfire with your card (which will probably require you to upgrade your PSU as well).

By how much am I losing out on with this graphics card instead of a better one? Because I've been assured multiple times that my performance will be very similar. According to them I can still run nearly every game on best graphics and only struggle with games like Crysis 3 but in which case, I can fiddle with the graphics a little to get the game running with still great graphics and performance.

What you have been told is correct though, you will be able to play most games on very high graphics, but you would be gaining a lot more than by going with an SSD.
The SSD you have selected is very small as well, so after you put your OS on it, it might leave you with room for 2-3 games.
Talking about gains check this 7950 review.
Depending on the game and resolution the fps gain comparing your card to the next one up (GTX 770 (which is almost identical in performance to the 7970 GHZ if you would prefer AMD) 20 FPS (Bioshock 58fps vs 77 fps on 1080p.)

So for now you would still get a very good performance with the 7950 (it's a very good card), but games are only going to be more demanding every day.

Also I'm getting Windows 8 OEM, so I'm pretty sure I only get one use with it and then it's gone. So I would have buy another OS as well, but I could be wrong about that.

Concerning the OEM version you are right (as far as I know), you would have to change that to a normal Windows version. But then again, why would you want to go with an OEM version anyway?
Reinstalling your OS doesn't take that long tbh, especially on an SSD anyway
But I can understand that you would find that a bit annoying.

I would probably need a bigger HDD

Why would you need a bigger HDD in case you would drop the SSD, you would only be losing 80GB in comparison to your current build.

Keimps

Danger781 wrote: »

You'll see the most advantage from a SSD in everything else.

But then again, it's a gaming PC he is building

Monotype

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

Ya I remember you mentioning them before, but I don't understand, they look more like plugs that increase the range of your Wi-Fi, not something that give your PC wireless capability. I asked that before but you never replied. Anyhow you're right, I can't afford them.

Ah, yeah I see that Lu mentioned them on page 1. Basically the idea is that you are using your power lines as a network to send data.

The reason why you'd do this is because it's got lower latency (i.e., delay) and packet loss (so data doesn't have to be re-sent as often). This won't make a difference for downloading files, but for the likes of fast paced multiplayer, it can make a substantial difference.
Secondly, it can be faster. If you have a lot of wireless signals in your area, interference can push down the speed and performance.

Sometimes wireless is better depending on the wiring of the house, but in most circumstances, homeplugs are preferable, especially in multiplayer games dependent on low pings.

You can still shave off €5 by getting the non-modular PSU.
http://www.hardwareversand.de/400+-+500+Watts/69044/Corsair+Builder+Serie+CX500+V3+Non-Modular+80%2B+Bronze%2C+500+Watt.article
This is the exact same PSU except you'll have one or two extra cables in your case and if you do a good job with management, you won't see them anyway.

solidMGSsnake

You can only get Windows 8 as a first install in OEM.

I'm getting a cheap case as is, I doubt it will have any wire management capabilities, so getting a non-modular is only going to increase the clutter, if I'm stuck, I will but I doubt I need the extra €5.

Monotype

You can switch around the hard drive with OEM Windows. You wouldn't be allowed to change the motherboard unless that specifically got fried or something.
Basically if it's considered to be a different computer.

You'd still need a reinstall. Cloning from HDD to SSD isn't a good idea.

marco_polo

Monotype wrote: »

Ah, yeah I see that Lu mentioned them on page 1. Basically the idea is that you are using your power lines as a network to send data.

The reason why you'd do this is because it's got lower latency (i.e., delay) and packet loss (so data doesn't have to be re-sent as often). This won't make a difference for downloading files, but for the likes of fast paced multiplayer, it can make a substantial difference.
Secondly, it can be faster. If you have a lot of wireless signals in your area, interference can push down the speed and performance.

Sometimes wireless is better depending on the wiring of the house, but in most circumstances, homeplugs are preferable, especially in multiplayer games dependent on low pings.

..

Just sharing my own experience, I got a new set of homeplugs recently and they have shown a good improvement over Wifi, a few tests downloading small steam games, have shown an increase in max throughput from 1.2-1.3 megabytes/S to about 3.6-3.7 megabytes/S which is much closer to my advertised broadband speeds.

Thats plugged into two different extension leads with 3-4 devices in each at opposite ends of a smallish apartment.

Keimps

Real pc gamers always go wired ;-)

solidMGSsnake

What's that supposed to mean? Your automatically a better gamer because you use wired?

I can't afford Homeplugs and I have no other way to go wired. I'm not in an apartment or anything, there's no modem in my bedroom. Also my house has a huge extension built on to it, with the router on the extension side and me on the original side, so the house might be running on two fuseboxes, which apparently causes problems with Homeplugs.

I'll be moving to my own house this winter for college and I'm sure I can use wired then.

Keimps

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

What's that supposed to mean? Your automatically a better gamer because you use wired?

Nope, not at all, but it does give you the best connection

I can understand that it might be difficult to get a wired connection, which sucks for you buddy

EoinHef

I wouldnt drop the ssd, the boot times, application open up times,data transfer times etc etc are so much faster. It really does make a huge difference imo. Games dont see much if any advantage from being put on an ssd so id just leave it for OS and a couple of select programs like your web browser of choice etc.

Just check out a few comparison videos of ssd's vs hdd's on youtube and the difference is quite substansial in a lot of cases.

Gumbi

EoinHef wrote: »

I wouldnt drop the ssd, the boot times, application open up times,data transfer times etc etc are so much faster. It really does make a huge difference imo. Games dont see much if any advantage from being put on an ssd so id just leave it for OS and a couple of select programs like your web browser of choice etc.

Just check out a few comparison videos of ssd's vs hdd's on youtube and the difference is quite substansial in a lot of cases.

To be honest, I'd get the better video card and grab an SSD at a letter time from Amazon when there's a good deal on.

Having said that, you're sitting pretty with a 7950 at 250 quid. Honestly, there's no better bang for buck in that price range for a GPU (Although a pair of 660ti for 360 pounds looks VERY tasty).

Danger781

Gumbi wrote: »

To be honest, I'd get the better video card and grab an SSD at a letter time from Amazon when there's a good deal on.

Having said that, you're sitting pretty with a 7950 at 250 quid. Honestly, there's no better bang for buck in that price range for a GPU (Although a pair of 660ti for 360 pounds looks VERY tasty).

Would you pay 360 for two 660tis? Or 416 for two 7950s?

Gumbi

Danger781 wrote: »

Would you pay 360 for two 660tis? Or 416 for two 7950s?

2 660tis I think. They both have their benefits, though. A pair of 7950s at 1000-1050Mhz will outperform 660ti by an appreciable margin, and the 3GB of VRAM might well be a noticeable boon when gaming above 1080p BUT you save over 50 pounds, and there will be less micro-stutter (if that's even an issue). Also, 5 year warranty (which is doubly appreciated due to having 2 cards) is a huge deal for me (vs just 2, I think, for the 7950s).

They're both insane bang for buck, though, and I think either are a fine choice.

Keimps

(got this one from the bargains post)
7970 GHZ with insane extras:
with FREE Corsair Vengeance M65 Gaming mouse & OcUK Mega Pad, plus 8 FREE games.

solidMGSsnake

Ok I'm back from the bank and my final budget total is €1,356

So should I change my build or is it fine the way it is? It's only a tiny bit extra and the prices change all the time so I don't know if I should buy anything else.

One thing that would help though if you could tell me if I should get the the gaming keyboard dispatched from Amazon or dispatched from the other group. As I wouldn't need to wait a few months so I wouldn't need the cheap keyboard to keep me going but on the other hand I think it's like €5 shipping instead of free shipping.

Also what switch should I get? Red, Blue or Brown? I like the blue backlight best but which keyboard is actually better? (please answer this, this is my 3rd time asking. sorry to be so up front but I need an answer)

Thanks a lot!

solidMGSsnake

(got this one from the bargains post)
7970 GHZ with insane extras:
with FREE Corsair Vengeance M65 Gaming mouse & OcUK Mega Pad, plus 8 FREE games.

I obviously can't afford that, but it does look like a good deal for the money

I'm already getting a good gaming mouse and mouse pad and I'm sure those games will be cheap enough on steam, especially during the summer sale.

When I get my PC, I'll already have, Minecraft, TF2, League of Legends, any other F2P game, Fallout 1 and 2 and Age of Empires 2.

I've enough to keep me going, I don't need to buy 8 games in bulk.

Keimps

Hehe, you're right, I got carried away by the offer lol :P

Gumbi

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

I obviously can't afford that, but it does look like a good deal for the money

I'm already getting a good gaming mouse and mouse pad and I'm sure those games will be cheap enough on steam, especially during the summer sale.

When I get my PC, I'll already have, Minecraft, TF2, League of Legends, any other F2P game, Fallout 1 and 2 and Age of Empires 2.

I've enough to keep me going, I don't need to buy 8 games in bulk.

You don't a 7950 to play those games. A 7770 (100 quid or less) will be more than fine.

Keimps

Gumbi wrote: »

You don't a 7950 to play those games. A 7770 (100 quid or less) will be more than fine.

I was thinking the same, those games are not gpu demanding at all, overkill for those games it will be.

solidMGSsnake

I'm not exclusively playing PC games from the 90s you know, I'll obviously be buying more games in the future.

Gumbi

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

I'm not exclusively playing PC games from the 90s you know, I'll obviously be buying more games in the future.

What kinds?

EoinHef

Well another way to look at it is the 7950 will play this type of games well into the future,a 7770 could need to be upgraded this time next year. With the new consoles on the way who knows what the game requirements will be in the next year or two.

Gumbi

EoinHef wrote: »

Well another way to look at it is the 7950 will play this type of games well into the future,a 7770 could need to be upgraded this time next year. With the new consoles on the way who knows what the game requirements will be in the next year or two.

A 7770 is way overkill for the games suggested, so if it's these types of games to be played a 7770 is fine and will last 2 - 3 years at least.

EoinHef

I reckon the OP meant that he had these games to keep him going for awhile as hes spending all his cash on the pc. Im sure he intends to play other games,when the bank account recovers:P Hes stated a few times he wants to be able to run any games he wants at or near to max settings.

If im wrong though the 7950 is major overkill.....

solidMGSsnake

Haha yes EoinHef, you hit the nail on the head. Why the hell would I spend all this money and not get new games xD

For example Far Cry 3, Crysis 1, Day Z, BF3 and anything else I see fit. Eventually I'll also get Skyrim and Fallout 3 and New Vegas but I already have them for console so I won't get them for awhile.

I can wait to get Fallout 4 as well and if WOW goes F2P, I'll get that too.

Keimps

7950 would indeed be enough to play all those games you mentioned on very high settings without issues.
I know you're obviously short on cash, but Steam has their summer sale now! And actually have Far Cry 3 and Skyrim for around 50% discount.
Check it out:steam store

solidMGSsnake

Haha yes EoinHef, you hit the nail on the head. Why the hell would I spend all this money and not get new games xD

For example Far Cry 3, Crysis 1, Day Z, BF3 and anything else I see fit. Eventually I'll also get Skyrim and Fallout 3 and New Vegas but I already have them for console so I won't get them for awhile.

I can wait to get Fallout 4 as well and if WOW goes F2P, I'll get that too.

Oh and Bioshock and maybe Mass Effect. This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's a lot more.

BTW is there anything I should change in the build? What should I do about the keyboard predicament? Red, Blue or Brown and should I wait the 1-3 months from Amazon or get it dispatched from the other guys for faster delivery. This would mean I wouldn't need to get the temporary keyboard but on the other hand, I have to pay shipping (I think €5)

Should I order from Amazon now or is there anything to change?
Also should I wait for a couple of days in case the prices decrease or do you think they could rise even more, or do you think the price I have right now is good enough?

I'm still not sure how to pay HWVS, how do I know when to send the money? If I send it before my order is final then I just paid them for nothing didn't I? But the website is really clear on when to do the transfer.

Also I put my ZIP Code as N/A but now there's a N/A in my address, will that work? It literally says "My Street", "My Town", "N/A", "Co. Limerick". It looks ridiculous!
Will I be better off saying 00000 or IRELAND or EIRE?

solidMGSsnake

Meant isn't very clear

Gumbi

7950 so.

solidMGSsnake

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

I think he was talking about my PSU specifically, not PSU's in general. Also, aren't your warranties void if you overclock?

Ok here's my build, the £s have being converted using the tool on google, so I don't know how accurate it is.

Amazon
CPU - Intel 3rd Generation Core i5-3570K €200.57
Motherboard - ASRock Z75 Pro3 €76.23
Graphics Card - Sapphire AMD Radeon HD 7950 €253.78
RAM - Patriot ddr3 1866mhz cl9 ram €80.20 (very expensive)
Mechanical Keyboard - Cooler Master CM Storm Quick Fire TK €84.18
PSU - Corsair Builder Series CXM 500W Modular €57.92
Temporary Keyboard - CiT USB/PS2 Combo Keyboard - Black €5.45

Total - €758.33 (free shipping)

I'm not sure what temporary keyboard to get, they are all roughly the same price, I included one of them in the build just for the average price but which should I go for?

CiT USB/PS2 Combo Keyboard - Black €5.45
Logitech K120 Business Keyboard €5.23
Octigen JK-302D USB Slim Keyboard - Black €5.80

As for the gaming keyboard the blue, red and brown are roughly the same price now, and the red can be delivered earlier by a 3rd party, should I go for that or stay with Amazon and which key colour should I get? If I did opt to get it from the 3rd party on Amazon then I wouldn't need the temporary keyboard either.

HWVS
SSD -Samsung SSD 840 120GB €85.04
HDD - WD Caviar Blue 1TB €57.40
Case - Cooltek Antiphon Black €61.13
Optical Drive - LiteOn iHAS124-04 €16.36
Speakers - Wavemaster MX-3+ €39.99
Gaming Mouse - Sharkoon Drakonia Gaming Laser Mouse €24.02
Mouse Mat - Sharkoon Fire Glider Gaming Mat €6.99
SATA Cable - LogiLink SATA Anschlusskabel mit Sicherungslasche, 0.5m €1.39
Net Adapter - ASUS PCE-N15 €14.90
CPU Cooler - Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO €29.73
OS - MS Windows 8 64bit (SB-Version) €85.33
Monitor - LG 22EA53VQ-P €125.83
Bluetooth - LogiLink Mini Bluetooth Dongle €5.39

Wow even the SATA cable is more expensive, would I be able to use this SATA cable instead:

LogiLink SATA 0.3m €0.63

Or is that a different size socket? Anyway I don't think an extra euro will help.

Total - €572.49 (including €18.99 shipping estimate)

Complete total - €1330.82 (phew, it's a lot but I honestly thought it would be more when I was adding it up)

Ok so ya I probably have to lose €40 unless I get it off someone but since I'm already getting an extra €50 so I doubt it.

That's basically my final build for those who don't know.
My final budget is €1,356.

Is there anything I should change? I'll probably go for the cheaper RAM but I haven't checked the prices since so they might of changed again, I don't know, hopefully not, or at least for the better.

Should I get better parts with the money, like a better PSU or case or Black HDD or should I use the money on games to get a headstart?

Also please address the questions in my previous posts about the keyboard and about buying form HWVS.

solidMGSsnake wrote: »

Haha yes EoinHef, you hit the nail on the head. Why the hell would I spend all this money and not get new games xD

For example Far Cry 3, Crysis 1, Day Z, BF3 and anything else I see fit. Eventually I'll also get Skyrim and Fallout 3 and New Vegas but I already have them for console so I won't get them for awhile.

I can wait to get Fallout 4 as well and if WOW goes F2P, I'll get that too.

Oh and Bioshock and maybe Mass Effect. This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's a lot more.

BTW is there anything I should change in the build? What should I do about the keyboard predicament? Red, Blue or Brown and should I wait the 1-3 months from Amazon or get it dispatched from the other guys for faster delivery. This would mean I wouldn't need to get the temporary keyboard but on the other hand, I have to pay shipping (I think €5)

Should I order from Amazon now or is there anything to change?
Also should I wait for a couple of days in case the prices decrease or do you think they could rise even more, or do you think the price I have right now is good enough?

I'm still not sure how to pay HWVS, how do I know when to send the money? If I send it before my order is final then I just paid them for nothing didn't I? But the website isn't really clear on when to do the transfer.

Also I put my ZIP Code as N/A but now there's a N/A in my address, will that work? It literally says "My Street", "My Town", "N/A", "Co. Limerick". It looks ridiculous!
Will I be better off saying 00000 or IRELAND or EIRE?

Here it is for convenience