Hospital costs with no health insurance (Long post)

Black_Widow

Sorry if this is in the wrong section but here goes.....
We currently hold a health insurance policy with a well known insurance company that is now due for renewal (2 adults and 2 children), but to be honest I'm sick of paying out such huge amounts of money for a service we very rarely use. I estimate over the last 11 years we have paid out close to, if not more than €40, 000. We have only made 4 claims in that time.
I have a condition that required exploratory surgery to diagnose but will not require any more care for the foreseeable future. My son had his tonsils out, again no more future care needed. My husband suffered from kidney stones which required two separate visits to A&E in the last 11 years. He has not had an attack in close to 4 years. He was never admitted, only had scans, left on the trolley in the hall for the night, then sent home with painkillers to pass the stones himself.
To cut a long story short, can anyone tell me what it would cost if anyone of us was to need a visit to A&E without being covered by a health insurance policy or a medical card? Obviously, I understand that surgeries would cost a lot, or are they covered too?
If you could include costs for overnight stays, procedures required such as x-rays/scans during that stay and consultant fees too, that would be great.
EDIT: I should have stated that I am referring to costs as a public patient.

Would much prefer to cancel my policy and put that money saved into an account to pay for future health care needs.

snubbleste

You'll never pay the full cost as healthcare costs are capped.
This gives a rough guide
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/hospital_services/hospital_charges.html
Also check out the HSE website

Also there is a hospital saturday fund, which I know little about http://www.hsf.ie/

Black_Widow

Thanks for the links. I prefer not to pay into a scheme anymore where I cannot claim back the funds if I do not use a medical service but again, thanks for that link.
So am I correct in saying the following:
If any of my family is sent to A&E by our GP, the most it will cost us is €75 a night up to a maximum of 10 nights (€750) in one full year. And that covers all procedures, medical equipment used (x-rays, scans etc.) and consultant fees. After that the long-term illness rates apply.
Say one of my children breaks their arm or some other form of emergency, and my GP sends us to A&E. As long as we go public, we don't pay anything, or do we still pay one fee of €75 for outpatient procedures?
I understand waiting times for non-emergency procedures are extremely long as my son is currently undergoing private orthadontic work due to the lengthy HSE waiting lists. If we had waited the procedure would not have worked.
Sorry for all the questions, just don't want to get landed with a hospital bill I wasn't expecting.

snubbleste

That sounds correct.
You have to pay the €75 per day/night for inpatient/outpatient unless referred by A&E or GP

canyoudigit

BUT remember too not private health care, no private rooms,no nothing, can be sharing room with five or six people in recovery.

Scortho

canyoudigit wrote: »

BUT remember too not private health care, no private rooms,no nothing, can be sharing room with five or six people in recovery.

I'd rather that than pay 1k plus a year.

Black_Widow

Ok, so just one more scenario:

Say one of my children needs to have their appendix removed urgently which will obviously require anaesthetic and a hospital stay of a few days. Will that still only cost the €75 a day/night or are operations not covered by the system?

tommyh1977

Black_Widow wrote: »

Sorry if this is in the wrong section but here goes.....
We currently hold a health insurance policy with a well known insurance company that is now due for renewal (2 adults and 2 children), but to be honest I'm sick of paying out such huge amounts of money for a service we very rarely use. I estimate over the last 11 years we have paid out close to, if not more than €40, 000. We have only made 4 claims in that time.
I have a condition that required exploratory surgery to diagnose but will not require any more care for the foreseeable future. My son had his tonsils out, again no more future care needed. My husband suffered from kidney stones which required two separate visits to A&E in the last 11 years. He has not had an attack in close to 4 years. He was never admitted, only had scans, left on the trolley in the hall for the night, then sent home with painkillers to pass the stones himself.
To cut a long story short, can anyone tell me what it would cost if anyone of us was to need a visit to A&E without being covered by a health insurance policy or a medical card? Obviously, I understand that surgeries would cost a lot, or are they covered too?
If you could include costs for overnight stays, procedures required such as x-rays/scans during that stay and consultant fees too, that would be great.
EDIT: I should have stated that I am referring to costs as a public patient.

Would much prefer to cancel my policy and put that money saved into an account to pay for future health care needs.

Same conundrum as yourself, sick of seeing such a large sum of money going from my a/c every month.

worded

Same here.

munchkin_utd

Black_Widow wrote: »

Ok, so just one more scenario:

Say one of my children needs to have their appendix removed urgently which will obviously require anaesthetic and a hospital stay of a few days. Will that still only cost the €75 a day/night or are operations not covered by the system?

someone can correct me but that is actually the situation and is why
a) the irish medical system is bankrupt and
b) irish medical insurance is so CHEAP as the taxpayer ends up with the tab anyhow.

In the USA you pay 1000s a month for family care.
In Germany my wife and I contribute something like 20grand a year in medical insurance.
(we pay as % of wage, the other scheme as a flatrate fee is 400euro or so per adult per month, and kids are extra)

In Ireland..... VHI costs a few hundred a year.
So think about it, what DO you expect from medical insurance in Ireland when it is so cheap.
Its obvious that all the really expensive specialised stuff is covered by the state isnt it?????

Pro Hoc Vice

canyoudigit wrote: »

BUT remember too not private health care, no private rooms,no nothing, can be sharing room with five or six people in recovery.

I have asked all my friends who have private insurance entitled to private or semi private none have ever got it on admission.

snubbleste

Black_Widow wrote: »

Ok, so just one more scenario:
Say one of my children needs to have their appendix removed urgently which will obviously require anaesthetic and a hospital stay of a few days. Will that still only cost the €75 a day/night or are operations not covered by the system?

Yes.

neemish

And yet, for others having private Health Insurance is an absolute.. have had it since birth (thanks Mom & Dad). Now in early thirties.

Had two ops as a child, one major op as a teen which was necessary but would have been waiting two years for in the public system.

Have had five hospital admissions as an adult, each costing in excess of 10k.... going public not even an option for those admissions. The public vs private care in the area I need it can't even be debated. Public care is abysmal to say the very least.

It may cost me a fortune, but health insurance is a lifeline to me

Black_Widow

- Munchkin utd:
Our private health insurance is costing well in excess of a few hundred a year, more like a few thousand a year which, admittedly, is not as bad as 20, 000 a year. Either way, I am tired of paying out such sums of money with no return.

- Infosys:
Yes, we were the same. When both myself and my son were being treated as in-patients and were entitled to private or semi-private rooms we never got them. We were placed in public wards.

- Neemish:
I too am used to the safety net of private health insurance. Both my husband and I (and now inherently our two children) have always had private health insurance all our lives, thanks to our parents. We are in our mid to late 30's now. As much of a frightening leap we feel we are taking by not renewing our policy, unfortunately we feel it's a luxury that we can no longer afford. We can always enter back into it in the future if we are in a better position to do so. However, for the minute it's just something we have to do.

Glinda

Just a note of caution about waiting times; you would need to be careful about this aspect. I visited my GP several years ago about something, she wasn't concerned but referred me to a consultant (just for 'peace of mind'). Turned out to be something extremely serious (malignant tumour). If I had gone publicly to the consultant I would without doubt be dead now due to waiting times.

If you cancel your health insurance, I would advise you to be prepared to pay to see a consultant privately (i.e. quickly) for anything that could even possibly be life-threatening, rather than waiting for a public appointment.

(You'd still possibly save a fortune!).

Henry Ford III

Black_Widow wrote: »

- Munchkin utd:
Our private health insurance is costing well in excess of a few hundred a year, more like a few thousand a year which, admittedly, is not as bad as 20, 000 a year. Either way, I am tired of paying out such sums of money with no return....

Health insurance is not a savings product, it's a protection product. It protects you and yours from the unexpected. If there's no claim the cost of the cover is gone, but at least you had the cover. Treatment for serious conditions is horribly expensive.

I'd be inclined to review your cover and see could you get a better deal.

munchkin_utd

Glinda wrote: »

Just a note of caution about waiting times; you would need to be careful about this aspect. I visited my GP several years ago about something, she wasn't concerned but referred me to a consultant (just for 'peace of mind'). Turned out to be something extremely serious (malignant tumour). If I had gone publicly to the consultant I would without doubt be dead now due to waiting times.
<snip>

a consultant can be paid in cash should the need arise and you jump the queue just in the same way as a VHI patient does and for treatment often its only available in public hospitals anyhow so again the taxpayer covers the cost of that.
EDIT: cash being <€200 if my parents neighbour's experience last year is anything to go by - so far less than a VHI policy subscriptions.

I was in intensive care in Cork University hospital for a week a number of years back with a bad old dose of (nearly fatal) meningitis and despite being "covered" by VHI "Health insurance", the parents just paid a few euro in cash for my comfy public bed and whatever food came with it and all scans and medicines and medical care was covered by the Irish taxpayer and VHI was no use at all.
If that were to be invoiced to the "medical insurance" it would have surely cost 1000s - but it shows how useless irish medical insurance is when so many critical cases are just covered by the public system.

And that simple personal example shows why medical insurance is so cheap in ireland and in a sense not as essential or useful as many may think it is.

Nermal

Glinda wrote: »

If I had gone publicly to the consultant I would without doubt be dead now due to waiting times.

How do you know? People assume this when half the time the public list waiting times are as fast as private - don't forget that nearly half the population of the country are covered, though it's shrinking fast.

The health insurers have played quite a blinder - people will happily shell out thousands a year without actually knowing what they're covered for or what the benefits of having insurance actually amount to.

munchkin_utd

Nermal wrote: »

<snip>
The health insurers have played quite a blinder - people will happily shell out thousands a year without actually knowing what they're covered for or what the benefits of having insurance actually amount to.

see, this is what I am saying.

in the US, an employer sponsored family health package costs $13,375 approx or €10296. In Europe its often more with solidarity payments meaning those working cover pensioners and unemployed for example.

In Ireland, the government pays out 15billion, which over 5million people, is 3grand a head.
Thats funding of the public health system of €9000 for a family of 2adults and a child or €12,000 for 2adults and 2 kids.
So on average in or about what it costs in the USA for private insurance and I'd wager not far off the cost per person on the continent either when you balance it out between those who are low and high earners.

And in Ireland you pay a bit over a grand a year for a family for VHI and think that it pays for the heart transplants and whatnot?????
It simply doesnt and at that lowly price never will.
Thats covered by the 12grand odd that (for a family) the HSE is being funded by the government IMF

rosenallis

Sorry for jumping in here, but im in somewhat of a same situation and wondering what to do.

Family etc keep telling me that it is necessary for me to get HI, but im struggling to do it

From what i can see, the maximum i can be charged from a public hospital (as a public patient) is €750 for any procedure?

Hence, what i would be paying for with insurance is a quicker time for elective surgeries?

Annabananna

Hey I just like to ask a question say you can pay a doctor privately and they found something wrong. Is it true that unless you can afford to pay for the procedure you need the doctor to carry out you will be put back on the public system and wait till they can fit you in.

Bakemate

I'd just like to correct and earlier point. It's €100 for A+E only. If you're admitted you don't pay the €100, just the €75 a night up to €750 per year.

Geuze

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Health insurance is not a savings product, it's a protection product. It protects you and yours from the unexpected. If there's no claim the cost of the cover is gone, but at least you had the cover. Treatment for serious conditions is horribly expensive.

Max hosp cost in Irl is 75 pn up to 750 max pa.

Hosp care is paid for by your taxes.

nice_guy80

for elective surgery private health insurance is essential

for emergency care, the public system is totally adequate

Geuze

Annabananna wrote: »

Hey I just like to ask a question say you can pay a doctor privately and they found something wrong. Is it true that unless you can afford to pay for the procedure you need the doctor to carry out you will be put back on the public system and wait till they can fit you in.

Three scenarios:

(1) you don't have ins - you join the public waiting list in the public hosp

(2) you don't have ins - you choose to get the procedure done in a private hosp and pay cash [or in a public hosp as a private patient]

(3) you have ins - you choose to use the ins to pay for the procedure done by a consultant in a private capacity

NB: in all three cases it could be the same consultant doing the procedure in the same room.

_Kaiser_

Don't have it, never had it (nor do any of my family) and have never needed it myself (late 30s).

I know that situation is unlikely to continue forever, but I can't see the point in pouring thousands of euro down the drain when I could put the money aside myself and use that if I need it (based on the capped numbers above).

It's a subsidised option in my current job but I've more urgent things that need paying to be honest