New Bone T. Woods

PARlance

I leave you with this link to some research/facts...

http://www.golf.com/instruction/why-you-3-putt-and-how-stop

GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry but it is terrible. Its at least 7 more shots than you should be taking.

........if you're a Tour Pro :rolleyes:

jackhua

thanks for all the answers, comments, opinions, judgments, stats, ideas..........................

overall, i think most people are saying that i need to practice on my short games now especially on the green.

So I will start to practice putting next month.:)

Myksyk

etxp wrote: »

... also 3 putt is very rare for a person playing off 8.

Oh, I wish that was true.

realgolfgeek

etxp wrote: »

also 3 putt is very rare for a person playing off 8.
.

That's non-sense ..
.
I would say an 8 handicapper would have one three putt a round more often than he/she doesn't.

mag

37 putts is the standard for a 21 handicap
30 putts is the standard for a 3 handicap

both based on the expected greens hit and par saves. if you checkout the scoresaver software then it details this.

pros are hitting par 5s in 2, etc... high handicappers are hitting less greens but not expected to get up & down very often... these things are all taken into account..

DuckSlice

realgolfgeek wrote: »

That's non-sense ..
.
I would say an 8 handicapper would have one three putt a round more often than he/she doesn't.

I'm just going on my experience of playing with a 8hc most weeks, he very rarely 3 putts.

ssbob

etxp wrote: »

I'm just going on my experience of playing with a 8hc most weeks, he very rarely 3 putts.

In my experience of playing with an 8 handicap is that he is streaky, could have 4/5 weeks of 25-30 putts per round with no 3 putts but then has a couple of weeks where he may have 2/3 per round.

I personally think that AJ's graph above covers it nicely, and should you wish to become a better player, you need to practice/practice/practice putting!

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I leave you with this link to some research/facts...

http://www.golf.com/instruction/why-you-3-putt-and-how-stop






........if you're a Tour Pro :rolleyes:

Maybe Im misreading it, but doesnt that show 37 putts as being for a 20+ handicap?

Miley Byrne

etxp wrote: »

also 3 putt is very rare for a person playing off 8.

That's just not true. If it's rare for an 8 h/c to 3-putt then it must be a once a lifetime for a tour pro to 3-putt. Scratch golfers 3-putt, pros 3-putt and 8 handicappers definitely 3-putt

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

Maybe Im misreading it, but doesnt that show 37 putts as being for a 20+ handicap?

I don't think you're misreading it at all, 37 putts for a 20+ handicap seems correct.
I don't think our discussion ever really focused on that though.

What you did mention was that a cicra 16 Handicap should have less than 30 putts....
Now, lets really test your ability to read/misread, what is the only category under 30 putts???
I'll make it very easy, it's not 0HC, 10HC, 20HC or 30HC
A further clue, it begins with "Tour" and ends with "Pro"

I'm sure the OP is many things, but a tour pro is not one of them.

DuckSlice

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I don't think you're misreading it at all, 37 putts for a 20+ handicap seems correct.
I don't think our discussion ever really focused on that though.

What you did mention was that a cicra 16 Handicap should have less than 30 putts....
Now, lets really test your ability to read/misread, what is the only category under 30 putts???
I'll make it very easy, it's not 0HC, 10HC, 20HC or 30HC
A further clue, it begins with "Tour" and ends with "Pro"

I'm sure the OP is many things, but a tour pro is not one of them.

http://www.cbssports.com/golf/stats/stats_leaders/PGA/2012/puttperRound

The above link shows the averages for 2012 PGA tour for putting. Not many at 30

PARlance

etxp wrote: »

http://www.cbssports.com/golf/stats/stats_leaders/PGA/2012/puttperRound

The above link shows the averages for 2012 PGA tour for putting. Not many at 30

Indeed, I looked at the same thing myself yesterday

ajcurry123 wrote: »

.....have less than 30 putts....
.....what is the only category under 30 putts....

I said "less" and "under" 30! :cool::D
And the graph looks like it's at high 28's or 29 for the Tour Pro

Anyway, think it's time for me to move on, should practice my putting and get down to 28 or 29 putts per round like I should be.......

DuckSlice

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Indeed, I looked at the same thing myself yesterday



I said "less" and "under" 30! :cool::D
And the graph looks like it's at high 28's or 29 for the Tour Pro

Anyway, think it's time for me to move on, should practice my putting and get down to 28 or 29 putts per round like I should be.......

It would help your handicap

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I don't think you're misreading it at all, 37 putts for a 20+ handicap seems correct.
I don't think our discussion ever really focused on that though.

What you did mention was that a cicra 16 Handicap should have less than 30 putts....
Now, lets really test your ability to read/misread, what is the only category under 30 putts???
I'll make it very easy, it's not 0HC, 10HC, 20HC or 30HC
A further clue, it begins with "Tour" and ends with "Pro"

I'm sure the OP is many things, but a tour pro is not one of them.

The argument was on whether or not 37 putts was terrible, I still maintain it is and since your graph shows its akin to a 20 handicapper, I rest my case.

Somehow the rest of your post just turned into "Blah, Blah Blah" on my screen so I'm going to go ahead and ignore it until you can formulate it into an adult discussion.

ssbob

GreeBo wrote: »

The argument was on whether or not 37 putts was terrible, I still maintain it is and since your graph shows its akin to a 20 handicapper, I rest my case.

I wouldn't say it's terrible but it is below averge IMO, I reckon the OP is losing 3 shots per round on putting but not 7 as you had previously pointed out! It is obviously an area he/she needs to work on.

realgolfgeek

GreeBo wrote: »

The argument was on whether or not 37 putts was terrible, I still maintain it is and since your graph shows its akin to a 20 handicapper, I rest my case.

Somehow the rest of your post just turned into "Blah, Blah Blah" on my screen so I'm going to go ahead and ignore it until you can formulate it into an adult discussion.

Greebo, do you actually think a 15/16 handicap should have < 30 putts ?

GreeBo

etxp wrote: »

http://www.cbssports.com/golf/stats/stats_leaders/PGA/2012/puttperRound

The above link shows the averages for 2012 PGA tour for putting. Not many at 30

Indeed, but also comparing PPR (Putts per round) between Pros and a random array of handicap golfers is pretty pointless. Unless you are comparing specific distances it tells you very little, other than the fact the amateurs take more putts in a round of golf.

Going back 3 years you have to get to the 160+ golfer before you get an average of 30 PPR, it goes up to 185 one year.

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

The argument was on whether or not 37 putts was terrible, I still maintain it is and since your graph shows its akin to a 20 handicapper, I rest my case.

Ok I'm back

Lets keep it adult and simple for you.
There is one question below, that's all I would like answered.

You said a guy that for a guy you/we assume to be circa 16 Handicap, having 37 putts is terrible.
You also said that he should be taking at least 7 putts less than this.

Now with the stats/evidence that I presented.

Do you still think a 16 Handicap should be shooting circa 29 putts per round?

GreeBo

realgolfgeek wrote: »

Greebo, do you actually think a 15/16 handicap should have < 30 putts ?

I think anything over 32 putts at our level is a bad day.
A 16 handicap is hitting so few greens in regulation that their first putt distance will be far shorter than someone hitting a GIR.
Lets say an average day, 2 GIR.
32 putts means 2 two putts on those greens (4)
and on the other 16 holes, they only had 4 single putts? (4 + (12 x 2) = 28)
I think thats the least any golfer should be looking at.

If you are not holing a couple of 10 footers and more than a couple 4 footers, on average in a round, then there is something wrong with your putting and you should focus on that imo. At our level your long game will never be good enough to make up for you not being able to single putt (no birdies, no up and downs, etc)

There is zero reason why we cant putt as well as a pro golfer, if you can rock your shoulders you can putt; the reason amateurs putting is so bad is that we dont practice a fraction of what they do.
We also give ourselves far too much to do on the green with very ropey short games.

GreeBo

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Ok I'm back

Lets keep it adult and simple for you.
There is one question below, that's all I would like answered.

You said a guy that for a guy you/we assume to be circa 16 Handicap, having 37 putts is terrible.
You also said that he should be taking at least 7 putts less than this.

Now with the stats/evidence that I presented.

Do you still think a 16 Handicap should be shooting circa 29 putts per round?

29 putts per round? No.
Do I think 37 is terrible? Yes, emphatically so.
Should they be aiming for 30-32 putts on average? Yes.
Should they have days where they have <29, Yes, totally.

Your (well Pelz's) stats show what is currently the case.
That doesnt mean thats what you should be doing.
An average is just that, an average score. Its skewed by bad putters and good putters, there being far more bad putters at each handicap than good putters.

e.g. The average male waist in Ireland is 34.
do you think if (when!) the average moves to 36, that Drs will say to people "oh its ok, you are at the average"?
Its the same with putting. There is no reason why we all cant be having very early 30's PPR with days of 27 as common as days of 34.

ssbob

GreeBo wrote: »

Do I think 37 is terrible? Yes, emphatically so.

45 is terrible, 37 is in the needs to get better category!!

GreeBo wrote: »

e.g. The average male waist in Ireland is 34.
do you think if (when!) the average moves to 36, that Drs will say to people "oh its ok, you are at the average"?

Freaked out by this stat, need to get working on the BOD:eek:

realgolfgeek

GreeBo wrote: »

There is zero reason why we cant putt as well as a pro golfer.

wow,

this is probably the second worst thing I've read on this forum, the first one was yesterday.

For a game played at the top level, where end of the day it all (mostly) comes down to putting, you say there is zero reason why we can't putt as well as a pro golfer .... is just ludicrous.

fullstop

realgolfgeek wrote: »

wow,

this is probably the second worst thing I've read on this forum, the first one was yesterday.

For a game played at the top level, where end of the day it all (mostly) comes down to putting, you say there is zero reason why we can't putt as well as a pro golfer .... is just ludicrous.

Agreed. That's just plain wrong. Like it or not Greebo, under 30 putts per round for anyone above scratch handicap is a very good day on the greens.

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

29 putts per round? No.

Finally

GreeBo wrote: »

e.g. The average male waist in Ireland is 34.
do you think if (when!) the average moves to 36, that Drs will say to people "oh its ok, you are at the average"?
Its the same with putting. There is no reason why we all cant be having very early 30's PPR with days of 27 as common as days of 34.

Sorry but that is a ridiculous comparison, but let's see if I can work with it.

A guy with a waist of 29in (Tour Pro) is very unlikely to be 16stone (16 HC)

PARlance

realgolfgeek wrote: »

wow,

this is probably the second worst thing I've read on this forum, the first one was yesterday.

For a game played at the top level, where end of the day it all (mostly) comes down to putting, you say there is zero reason why we can't putt as well as a pro golfer .... is just ludicrous.

Indeed, even some Pro Golfers can't putt like a Pro Golfer

GreeBo

fullstop wrote: »

Agreed. That's just plain wrong. Like it or not Greebo, under 30 putts per round for anyone above scratch handicap is a very good day on the greens.

Agreed, under 30 is a good day, 31-32 is an average day, 33-34 is a bad day, 37 is terrible.

Remember that each single extra shot (putt in this case is important)
so the difference between 30 putts and 32 putts is huge.

realgolfgeek wrote: »

wow,

this is probably the second worst thing I've read on this forum, the first one was yesterday.

For a game played at the top level, where end of the day it all (mostly) comes down to putting, you say there is zero reason why we can't putt as well as a pro golfer .... is just ludicrous.

Have you ever hit a drive like a pro?
Have you ever hit a 4 iron like a pro?

Im going to guess the answer to both of the above is a big fat no.
However Im willing to bet that you have hit bunker shots like a pro, chip shots like a pro, and most of all putts like a pro.

Putting is the easiest thing to do in golf and thus the easiest thing to be as good as a pro (or nearly as good as a pro) as.
Remember I'm just talking about pure putting from specific distances.
There is no real reason why a pro should be better at holing putts from 3 feet than you are.
There are a million reasons why they will always be better than you at driving the ball.

ssbob wrote: »

45 is terrible, 37 is in the needs to get better category!!

45 is abysmal!

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Sorry but that is a ridiculous comparison, but let's see if I can work with it.

A guy with a waist of 29in (Tour Pro) is very unlikely to be 16stone (16 HC)

Its not a comparison in the sense you are taking it. The comparison I am making is in the danger of looking at averages. Just because something is the average doesnt mean that its good enough.

GreeBo

realgolfgeek wrote: »

That's non-sense ..
.
I would say an 8 handicapper would have one three putt a round more often than he/she doesn't.

My stats dont show that at all.
Sure I have 3 putts, buts its typically a run of having them and then not having them at all, and like I said, I think I'm a below average 8 handicap on the greens.

If you are off 8 and three putting in a round more often than you are having 3 putt free rounds then I would say your general game is much better than an 8 and you need to go work on your short game.

realgolfgeek

GreeBo wrote: »

Putting is the easiest thing to do in golf

This is now the third worst thing I've heard on this forum.

Anyone can putt a ball from A to (roughly) B. In that way, yes it's easy.

To say it's the easiest thing to do in golf, and that there should be no reason to be as good as a pro, is again ... ludicrous.

Are you as good as a pro in putting ?
My guess is No ? Why not though ? There is NO reason why you can't be as good as a pro in that department.

GreeBo

realgolfgeek wrote: »

This is now the third worst thing I've heard on this forum.

Anyone can putt a ball from A to (roughly) B. In that way, yes it's easy.

To say it's the easiest thing to do in golf, and that there should be no reason to be as good as a pro, is again ... ludicrous.

Are you as good as a pro in putting ?
My guess is No ? Why not though ? There is NO reason why you can't be as good as a pro in that department.

So what part of golf do you think is harder than putting?

Anyone with practice can putt as well as a Pro. not everyone can hit a drive as well as a pro, irrespective of practice time.

And no Im not as good a putter as a pro, because I dont spend enough time on it.
Could I be? Of course, its the most basic of movements in the game, after that its touch and feel, but no more than is required to throw a ball to someone.

realgolfgeek

GreeBo wrote: »

So what part of golf do you think is harder than putting?

Anyone with practice can putt as well as a Pro. not everyone can hit a drive as well as a pro, irrespective of practice time.

And no Im not as good a putter as a pro, because I dont spend enough time on it.
Could I be? Of course, its the most basic of movements in the game, after that its touch and feel, but no more than is required to throw a ball to someone.

Ok,
what's your handicap ?
what's your average putt per round ?

DuckSlice

Why is it so unbelievable that an amateur could average 30ish putts per round?

realgolfgeek

etxp wrote: »

Why is it so unbelievable that an amateur could average 30ish putts per round?

Is your average 30 PPP ?

fullstop

GreeBo wrote: »

Agreed, under 30 is a good day, 31-32 is an average day, 33-34 is a bad day, 37 is terrible.

Yes, for a low single figures player. Not for a 16 handicap.

PARlance

etxp wrote: »

Why is it so unbelievable that an amateur could average 30ish putts per round?

Hold on a second..... 30 Ish ???
My missus is 30ish...but it had been 5 years since she was 29

I'm out for real this time

realgolfgeek

ajcurry123 wrote: »

I'm out for real this time

holds curry's hand

DuckSlice

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Hold on a second..... 30 Ish ???
My missus is 30ish...but it had been 5 years since she was 29

I'm out for real this time

Your about as funny as Enda Kenny
I say 30ish because an average isn't going to be exactly 30 is it, it will be 30.1 or whatever

DuckSlice

realgolfgeek wrote: »

Is your average 30 PPP ?

My average is 33.3 per round, but I definitely could average 30, I have had 4 rounds with 30 or under putts this year so it's not that unbelievable is it!

I don't practice putting.

GreeBo

fullstop wrote: »

Yes, for a low single figures player. Not for a 16 handicap.

because of putting ability or the other aspects of their short game?

GreeBo

realgolfgeek wrote: »

Ok,
what's your handicap ?
what's your average putt per round ?

it's already been mentioned, 8 and 34 putts.
since you were so dismissive can you please answer which part of golf you think is easier than putting please?

fullstop

etxp wrote: »

My average is 33.3 per round, but I definitely could average 30, I have had 4 rounds with 30 or under putts this year so it's not that unbelievable is it!

I don't practice putting.

Well why don't you go and average 30 so if it's that easy?

GreeBo wrote: »

because of putting ability or the other aspects of their short game?

A combination of the two really. What percentage of putts from 5-15 feet do you think these people should be holing to achieve 30 putts per round?

DuckSlice

fullstop wrote: »

Well why don't you go and average 30 so if it's that easy?

Because I'm happy enough with my putting at the moment. Trying to improve my GIR. But I could if I put my mind to it.

SnowDrifts

etxp wrote: »

Because I'm happy enough with my putting at the moment. Trying to improve my GIR. But I could if I put my mind to it.

That just doesn't make sense. You could average 30 ppr if you put your mind to it but would rather work on GIR? Surely 3 less strokes a round is better than a few more GIR?

DuckSlice

SnowDrifts wrote: »

That just doesn't make sense. You could average 30 ppr if you put your mind to it but would rather work on GIR? Surely 3 less strokes a round is better than a few more GIR?

3 more GIR in a round is 3 less chips I will have to take isn't it? It doesn't have to make sense to you, I want to improve my GIR. I feel it's the part of my game that is the weakest.

ForeRight

etxp wrote: »

3 more GIR in a round is 3 less chips I will have to take isn't it? It doesn't have to make sense to you, I want to improve my GIR. I feel it's the part of my game that is the weakest.

More greens in regulation will likely increase your putts unless you start stitching flags.

If you know you can easily drop 3 strokes a round it's a bit silly not to be doing that.

DuckSlice

ForeRight wrote: »

More greens in regulation will likely increase your putts unless you start stitching flags.

If you know you can easily drop 3 strokes a round it's a bit silly not to be doing that.

I never said it would be easy. Maybe your right, just been concentrating on better iron play recently. Maybe I should just concentrate on putting.

ForeRight

etxp wrote: »

I never said it would be easy. Maybe your right, just been concentrating on better iron play recently. Maybe I should just concentrate on putting.

If you think with a bit of work you can definitely drop 3 strokes s a round I'd be doing that.

Hitting gir is great but will likely leave you with many long putts and tough 2 putts.

If you are missing a green you will have lots of chances of up and downs if your chipping is tight. That's 1 putt on a green or at worst a 2 putt.

Concentrate on getting the putting as good as you possibly can and then go work on your irons. By the time you get to hitting extra gir then you will have a great putting game and will likely 2 putt.

Win win!

GreeBo

fullstop wrote: »

Well why don't you go and average 30 so if it's that easy?



A combination of the two really. What percentage of putts from 5-15 feet do you think these people should be holing to achieve 30 putts per round?

can't really answer that, there is too much of a difference between 5 foot and 15 foot.

I'd be looking for 6/7 out of 10 5 footers, 15 footers I'd be happy with 1/10.
this of course depends on if we are talking about the same putt repeated or not; same putt then the 15 footer numbers should drastically improve, say 3/10

/edit
sorry I just spotted the "to achieve 30 ppr"
impossible to answer that without knowing more about their game.
e.g. 18 GIR vs 1.

fullstop

etxp wrote: »

Because I'm happy enough with my putting at the moment. Trying to improve my GIR. But I could if I put my mind to it.

Nonsense, you couldn't. Unless you started purposely missing every green just off the green to guarantee less putts without having any sort of decent score. What's your h/c?

GreeBo wrote: »

/edit
sorry I just spotted the "to achieve 30 ppr"
impossible to answer that without knowing more about their game.
e.g. 18 GIR vs 1.

Well in all honesty, if somebody is hitting 1 GIR per round, the likelihood is that they strike the ball terrible and probably chip terrible and putt terrible.

DuckSlice

fullstop wrote: »

Nonsense, you couldn't. Unless you started purposely missing every green just off the green to guarantee less putts without having any sort of decent score. What's your h/c?

Why couldn't I? My hc is 14 like I have said in previous posts.

fullstop

etxp wrote: »

Why couldn't I? My hc is 14 like I have said in previous posts.

So you play off 14 and think you could get your average PPR down to 30 no problem?! LOL.