Fuel additives/Dipetane efficiency?

sadmantas

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

1 litre of Dipetane is suppose to be added to 200 litres of fuel.

Just realised you replied to a thread 364 days old.

Was doing some research before the test and found this forum. And after passing NCT had to share the result, in case others are looking for some advise aswell

dgt

Wonkey injectors? Clogged EGR? Needed an Italian tune up?

sadmantas

biko wrote: »

Moved out from an old Dip thread but great to hear it was effective.
What reading was 4.16?
I suspect the kerosene has a play in there too, it wasn't just the Dip.

Ur right, even after kero ''treatment'' noticed reduced smoke after first start in the morning.

sadmantas

dgt wrote: »

Wonkey injectors? Clogged EGR? Needed an Italian tune up?

was tuned up Italian way big time

kavanada

I remember Fifth Gear did a piece on Branded Fuels and dip to see which gave superior performance and mileage.

Generally, the Texaco's, Shell's, BP's, were average but indistinguishable between themselves. The supermarket fuels were crap. And dip? It caused a slight decrease in performance/mileage!

You couldn't make it up.

dh0011

my experience with dipetane is that it increases milage. The company has recently won contract to supply cities in aisa with smpg problems with dipetane as it reduces emissions. Aswell as that the bulk of french home heating oil comes pretreated with the stuff. I doubt this would be happening unless it is a decent product.

gooner99

Tested the wife's old 2000 petrol 323 last week.Went to the local auto factors. They had it but recommended not to use it without knowing what the problems were as it could change the result either way. Said it would be best to test it first and then see. So I left it and just gave it the same good old Italian tuneup it got last year and it passed the emissions. Unfortunately it failed on other items.

Is that true that it can help or make matters worse depending on how the car is at the time of using it?

biko

If the car in within emission range it could possibly throw readings off.

But tbh I don't think so. Dipetane helps create a better combustion is all, this can't in theory get "too good".
This is also the reason you can't put too much in, in theory you could drive on Dip alone.

Chimaera

Dipetane or other similar fuel treatments will usually work to remove deposits from the fuel system. This can include crap in the fuel tank which will end up caught in the fuel filter. Mostly, it removes carbon deposits in the injectors and cylinder head, around the combustion zone.

On old, worn engines, this can lead to exposure of tolerances that are rather beyond the manufacturers specification and this will lead to worse running. It isn't really the fault of the product: it's doing what it's designed to do but it reveals the real problems with your engine.

Personally, I've never used Dipetane on my car. I've tended to use LiquiMoly's Diesel Purge just before the NCT. It comes in a litre bottle, and you rig up the fuel system so the car will run on the DP instead of fuel from the tank. This mostly involves some 8 mm polypropylene tubing - disconnect the feed and return lines from the injection pump and stick some tubing onto them, place the other ends in the bottle of DP (I use a clear plastic bottle so I can see what's going on).

Run the car out the road for a few km (a litre will get you about 8-10 km of hard driving). Be sure to have tools with you to reconnect the regular fuel supply so you're not stranded. In 7 years with my Passat, I've never even come close to failing the smoke test (worst result was 1.3 IIRC).

Matt Simis

kavanada wrote: »

I remember Fifth Gear did a piece on Branded Fuels and dip to see which gave superior performance and mileage.

Generally, the Texaco's, Shell's, BP's, were average but indistinguishable between themselves. The supermarket fuels were crap. And dip? It caused a slight decrease in performance/mileage!

You couldn't make it up.

Wait, Fifth Gear did a piece covering Dipetane (assume thats what you mean by this vague "dip" business)?

dh0011

I did a quick google and cant find anything about fifth gear testing dipetane. Have you any more details kavanada?

biko

He's maybe on abut this one, Dip not mentioned though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG3j0g88kXs

ironclaw

You know your doing well when the car has to be checked by 4 NCT testers because the reading is non-existent :pac:

pa990

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTaBngvsPrc

nothing about dipetane

dh0011

Nothing there on dipetane. In case anyone is in any doubt - dipetane is not an octane booster. it causes the engine to burn the carbon in the fuel on top of burning the rest of the petrol, keeping the engine in better condition according to the manufacturer.

pa990

Nothing here either.. but interesting all the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQghB4asSnI

and for the Diesel lovers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezjknhwcQXU

Chimaera

Doing some googling on this turns up a lot of the usual hyperbole around fuel additives and whether they really work. Most of the testing that has revealed significant reported gains in fuel economy are from the US where fuel standards are, quite frankly, dreadful. Any additive is likely to make some difference over there, especially in diesel.

The benefit of dipetane is probably no more than that it's more carefully formulated and produced than bulk fuels. Unfortunately, the MSDS doesn't give much about its composition, but it's likely to be components that are already present in fuels, just perhaps higher concentrations of certain compounds.

The 5th Gear test was to compare different road fuels available in the UK to see if the more expensive fuels were actually worth it or not. I think their conclusion for the most part was that it was just marketing hype. Certainly in most cases the gains didn't offset the cost.

It's difficult, if not impossible, to add significantly to the calorific value of a tank of fuel by adding 50-100 ml of an additive. Short of adding explosives, you're not going to bring enough energy density to the table to make a difference! Sorry kids, but the laws of thermodynamics are pretty solid on that one!

You could add in an oxidiser (that's what the nitrous heads do after all) and that'll get you more power by burning more fuel, or in the case of a diesel that's running badly, you might get more complete combustion during the combustion window. Incomplete combustion is why diesels smoke, but unless you've a heavily modified car, you shouldn't be getting smoke to begin with: smoke is an indicator that stuff isn't working as it should and is a reason to get it checked by a mechanic.

If you add an oxygenated compound in here, the extra oxygen can help towards a cleaner burn (and hence better emissions), but you'll lose out on energy release: that's mainly a function of carbon and hydrogen content, and if you're displacing either to add oxygen, you're losing out.

Mostly, what these additives seem to do is raise the cetane or octane rating a few points. This means the fuel will light up earlier and perhaps burn a little hotter. Earlier ignition can improve engine performance, particularly when the fuel is below the specification the engine was designed for. In Europe modern fuel standards are high enough that this effect is not going to be pronounced but it may help a little. It's also why American users have reported larger gains. US diesel can be as low as 40 cetane, while European must be a minimum of 51 these days. Petrol specs are closer, but Euro fuel is still a few octane points higher than US fuel.

The hotter burning part is where they work to clear carbon deposits: by raising the combustion temperature a little the carbon gets burned off. Adding an oxygenate component helps here as well.

The last thing some additives might do is enhance lubricity, which is a good argument for using them in Ireland where laundering of diesel is a big problem. I'm not sure that dipetane makes this claim though.

biko

Just realised we have a massive thread on fuel additives and dipetane, added this latest thread to that.

Matt Simis

Chimaera, whats your opinion or viewpoint on the recent theory/suggestion of adding (ashless JASF spec) 2-stroke Oil in small quantities (0.2% per tankful) to Petrol? The theory is that modern ethanol blended fuel is dryer than cars/pumps were designed for and that the small addition improves lubricity as well as burning cleaner and more efficiently.

I tried it in a few cars and quick results suggested a 0.4litre per 100km economy increase. There was a very basic home test video of someone spraying a straight petrol mix onto a naked flame vs a 0.2% 2stroke petrol mix.. the Mixed fuel visibly burned with less (almost none) black smoke and more "completely".

ironclaw

By no means scientific, but over the past few weeks I was running a small bit of older petrol / 2-stroke oil mix in my car from some containers in the garage (Meant for lawnmowers etc) About 5L of mix in a 40L tank. Engine definitely ran smoother and my mileage was up from 360 miles to 385 miles for the full tank. Same routing and drive style to previous weeks.

Again, not scientific but to me there was an improvement.

kuro2k

I was using diptane from September 12 - June 13 (18,000km) and I found no real difference in l/100km. Since early June I started to use 150ml of TCW-3 Marine 2 stroke syn oil per tank, once again I found no real difference..

I terracleaned the engine last summer tbh I'm not expecting any miracles with the l/100km, I would just like to keep the engine in good shape for as long as possible.

My NCT smoke results have more than halfed since my last NCT 2 years ago, I'm not sure if thats down to the terraclean, diptane or new exhaust I fitted just before the last NCT

1KZ-TE Toyota 3.0 TD

kavanada

Ah yes, sorry. I was getting mixed up with the octane booster additive and Dipetane in the Fifth Gear episode.

Tbh, for me, the jury is still out on the benefits of Dip. A well-cared for engine with regular servicing and fuel from a reputable garage should last longer than one topped up with a little Dipetane every 2 years or so.

kuro2k

kavanada wrote: »

A well-cared for engine with regular servicing and fuel from a reputable garage should last longer than one topped up with a little Dipetane every 2 years or so.

Apparently Ireland has the worst fuel quality in the EU so going to a reputable fuel station wont really help much. You must use dipetane with every tank fill to get any benefit

V.W.L 11

kuro2k wrote: »

Apparently Ireland has the worst fuel quality in the EU so going to a reputable fuel station wont really help much. You must use dipetane with every tank fill to get any benefit

could you not add a full bottle to every half tank of petrol???need to get the emissions down majorly for the retest

Tail Docker

I add a one-shot of 2 stroke oil to every tankful of diesel. I do it religiously these days. I notice a mileage/smoothness benefit, enough for me to keep doing it.

V.W.L 11

Tail Docker wrote: »

I add a one-shot of 2 stroke oil to every tankful of diesel. I do it religiously these days. I notice a mileage/smoothness benefit, enough for me to keep doing it.

an good on petrol cars?

Tail Docker

V.W.L 11 wrote: »

an good on petrol cars?

Honestly no idea. I'm going to try it tomorrow for the craic. With the diesels, especially transits and Hiace, I notice a benefit, it's audibly less harsh and knockey and I get a small mileage improvement, only about 5% but I'll take that.

I think it does the injector pumps a power of good keeping the seals and plungers/rotors lubricated - since the demise of full-fat sulphur diesel, diesel is now more like kerosene, very "dry".

When running kero, you add veg oil to add lubricity, it's a must, not a "well it might help". I have come to regard 2-stroke as a similar "must" and not a "well it might help". Buts that's just IMO. We used to have a waay too high injector pump failure rate as the vans we run have very hard lives with constant stop starting and heavy loading, one plus is since starting to use 2-stroke, there has not been a single fuel pump issue. Touch wood.

jimgoose

V.W.L 11 wrote: »

an good on petrol cars?

Some swear by the additive package in the marine stuff. Look for NMMA TC-W3 standard on the bottle.