Fuel additives/Dipetane efficiency?

GTE

I used Dipetane recently and I did notice my MPG jump to to touching 60 from my usual early 50's. Having said that the car would do 57 consistently last year with out the stuff so the jury is still out on the MPG front. Having said that I do have enough left for one last fill of diesel.

GTE

bbk wrote: »

I used Dipetane recently and I did notice my MPG jump to to touching 60 from my usual early 50's. Having said that the car would do 57 consistently last year with out the stuff so the jury is still out on the MPG front. Having said that I do have enough left for one last fill of diesel.

To that end I need to figure out a good way to do it.

My idea was fill the car up with regular diesel.
Do a run to somewhere and back and do the same run with a full tank with dipetane.


Instead of doing full tank runs I may try a shorter one.
Much simpler then I thought haha.

Dublin to Belfast and back will be a regular occurrence in the next month onwards so Ill save it for that.

The calculations will be interesting though. Would it eventually pay for itself.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Matt Simis

Im still trying to get through the tank on the Alfa 156 (2.4JTD Common Rail Diesel) with a dash of dipetane, but I am seeing a clear increase in range to the tank (stupid car has no inbuilt MPG counter). I dont mean its kinda better, I mean its very noticably better. Which harks back my my and others comments that it works better on diesels (and not just ancient ones). The black smoke out of a diesel is unburnt fuel, seemingly by design there is some slack to pick up there.

The best I got was 520 miles to a 60odd litre tank and Im generally driving well outside the fuel efficiency sweet zone on motorways and making use of the accelerative torque on other roads. So far on the dipetane "enhanced" tank, Im at 450miles and have about 30% fuel left.

Confab wrote: »

How's the dipetane test going on your 850 Matt?

Only read this now! On the petrol, didnt really seem much difference, what I saw was a small positive increase in range, but like 2% margin of error type increases, not at all like the Alfa above.


PS: BBK stop quoting yourself!

keithclancy

IMO You'll save more fuel improving your driving habits than lashing some magic pixie fairy dust into the tank.

Same story with LED light bulbs
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/25/led_save_energy_not/

I save myself about 6 - 10 euros a tank by not overtaking people and by that i mean trying to keep my speed as constant as possible.

GTE

.

bbk (cause he can) wrote:

Matt Simis wrote: »

PS: BBK stop quoting yourself!

Indeed I can still edit both those posts Wasnt thinking, but I do enjoy my company

Raiser

keithclancy wrote: »

IMO You'll save more fuel improving your driving habits than lashing some magic pixie fairy dust into the tank.

Same story with LED light bulbs
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/25/led_save_energy_not/

I save myself about 6 - 10 euros a tank by not overtaking people and by that i mean trying to keep my speed as constant as possible.

In deference to your point of view there is a massive amount of 'Snake Oil' products put on shelves for Consumers to waste their money on and when you look specifically at Car Products you could bin half those potions, mixes and auto-lotions without too much thought required!

- However, that said, I am absolutely assured of the fact that Dipetane does give my particular Motor at least an extra +10-15% range per tank , hopefully I or someone else on here will be able to convince you - In fact you'd be the perfect Person to pick up a 1L Bottle and test it

Matt Simis

keithclancy wrote: »

IMO You'll save more fuel improving your driving habits than lashing some magic pixie fairy dust into the tank.

Same story with LED light bulbs
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/25/led_save_energy_not/

I save myself about 6 - 10 euros a tank by not overtaking people and by that i mean trying to keep my speed as constant as possible.

Nah Id rather overtake people non stop and save the 10 euro, thanks.

RichyX

My Ibiza is smokey as hell when warmed up.
Any chance this stuff would help it get through the NCT?
They wouldn't even test it last time it was so smokey.

Raiser

I've located a Supplier for 25 Litres Drums in Limerick @ €165 each - Only catch is that you have to buy two to make it worth their while re. delivery costs etc.

I'm not that keen on splashing out €330 straight off for 50 Litres = ~150+ full tanks of petrol which means something like a ~3.5 year supply of the stuff!!!

Anyone interested in going halves? Its €165 for 25 Litres which for me equates to about 4.5K extra miles at a cost of about 1K Euro.

daveharnett

RichyX wrote: »

My Ibiza is smokey as hell when warmed up.
Any chance this stuff would help it get through the NCT?
They wouldn't even test it last time it was so smokey.

No harm in picking up a 1L bottle. The consensus seems to be that it does help significantly with sooty diesels.

Matt Simis

Raiser wrote: »

I've located a Supplier for 25 Litres Drums in Limerick @ €165 each - Only catch is that you have to buy two to make it worth their while re. delivery costs etc.

Thats not much of a saving over buying 5x 5litre drums at EUR34 each... like a fiver difference. Surely if you went into a Motorfactors selling the 5litre tanks and asked them for a "cash discount" (and bulk) they could do a lot better than that?

Raiser

Matt Simis wrote: »

Thats not much of a saving over buying 5x 5litre drums at EUR34 each... like a fiver difference. Surely if you went into a Motorfactors selling the 5litre tanks and asked them for a "cash discount" (and bulk) they could do a lot better than that?

You're right.

- To be honest, I had expected the 25L deal to come in a bit cheaper, but as per your point its not worth the hassle of lugging it around, storing it and the headaches of pouring it into smaller containers for ease of use etc. when you could pick up 5 X 5Ls every odd time.......

Only difference to the above would be if I get a call back offering a better deal on the 25L Drums

stevenmu

Has anybody tried using dipetane, and then trying some tanks of fuel without it? If it works by cleaning the engine then I'd guess it would work just as well if it's only used a few times a year instead of in every tank.

Raiser

stevenmu wrote: »

Has anybody tried using dipetane, and then trying some tanks of fuel without it? If it works by cleaning the engine then I'd guess it would work just as well if it's only used a few times a year instead of in every tank.

I had wondered about that - They do claim it works by burning out carbon deposits etc. etc. But it also is claimed to boost mileage via the combustion process......

- If I leave it out on a refill my economy drops right back to square one.

GTE

Another point that Ive been trying to figure out in my head is that I believe they say that it makes the fuel burn more efficiently. Something to do with the hydrocarbons? It makes sure you get the most out of the fuel.

So, how does it actually give you more mileage. I would have thought the engine management system would still chuck the same amount of fuel into the combustion process given the same environmental conditions whether it had the additive or not. Or do the ECU's have facilities to monitor how the fuel is burning in the cylinder so it adjusts the settings?

Matt Simis

bbk wrote: »

Another point that Ive been trying to figure out in my head is that I believe they say that it makes the fuel burn more efficiently. Something to do with the hydrocarbons? It makes sure you get the most out of the fuel.

So, how does it actually give you more mileage. I would have thought the engine management system would still chuck the same amount of fuel into the combustion process given the same environmental conditions whether it had the additive or not. Or do the ECU's have facilities to monitor how the fuel is burning in the cylinder so it adjusts the settings?

Probably similar to how a remap can give more MPG, by improving torque you dont need to keep the injectors open as long as you got the power required more efficiently and can let off accelerating and go back to cruising sooner than without.

GTE

Matt Simis wrote: »

Probably similar to how a remap can give more MPG, by improving torque you dont need to keep the injectors open as long as you got the power required more efficiently and can let off accelerating and go back to cruising sooner than without.

Ok I get you. I can see how the ECU could figure out that under cruise control say it can stay at a certain speed using a certain percentage less fuel then normal or for people without cruise slightly less accelerator pedal?

dunsandin

Ive used additives a lot in my vans, found they reduced smoke and increased economy but also have my own suspicions that they are perhaps hard on injector pump seals and injectors that are within a previously dirty fuel system, the cleaning action seems to be so good that it might dislodge chunky enough lumps of crud fit to clog the injectors. It may well have been coincidence but on two higher mileage vans, when I started using fuel additives, knackered injector pump seals and clogged injectors followed rapidly, on previously very reliable engines. This might just have been pure coincidence, but can anybody explain if there could be a correlation?

Matt Simis

bbk wrote: »

Ok I get you. I can see how the ECU could figure out that under cruise control say it can stay at a certain speed using a certain percentage less fuel then normal or for people without cruise slightly less accelerator pedal?

Well I didnt necessarily mean automated "Cruise Control", but "cruising" vs accelerating, ie maintaining speed (which is economical). So the less you accelerate, the more fuel you will have. Even on a motorway you will subtlety be accelerating to make up for dips and bumps in the road, so the any improvement to the fuel consumption (or time required) on acceleration pays off in economy.

dunsandin wrote: »

Ive used additives a lot in my vans, found they reduced smoke and increased economy but also have my own suspicions that they are perhaps hard on injector pump seals and injectors that are within a previously dirty fuel system, the cleaning action seems to be so good that it might dislodge chunky enough lumps of crud fit to clog the injectors. It may well have been coincidence but on two higher mileage vans, when I started using fuel additives, knackered injector pump seals and clogged injectors followed rapidly, on previously very reliable engines. This might just have been pure coincidence, but can anybody explain if there could be a correlation?

"Fuel Additives" (ie Injector Cleaners) or Dipetane specifically? Ive emailed Dipetane directly before and they told me it has lubricative properties, so it would seem odd it would wear out a seal, should do the opposite. Frequent use of Injector / Fuel System cleaners specifically may be a different matter.

dunsandin

Errr. Considering that my own experience is based on a test sample of four vehicles, two of which were and are fine and two of which rapidly did in their injector pumps and a single clogged solid injector in each case, I'd rather not say which brand-its hardly conclusive proof of an issue. I'm just asking the question, in this thread on Dipethane, and additives in general, does anybody else have any similar experiences, or were my transits on the verge of failure anyway? I've now gone the other way and add engine-oil leak stop to the odd tank of diesel, which apparently softens hardened seals and keeps the injector system in fettle. The low sulfur contents of the latest brews of diesel are very hard on pump seals and have certainly added to the litany of failed injector pumps and are also apparently hard on c-r-d systems as well. Do some types of additives contribute to the issue with fuel system seals? I kinda know what I reckon, but what do others think? And generally, seals dont wear, they harden and shrink. Lubrication doesnt help, per se, its a chemical thing.

Matt Simis

dunsandin wrote: »

Errr. Considering that my own experience is based on a test sample of four vehicles, two of which were and are fine and two of which rapidly did in their injector pumps and a single clogged solid injector in each case, I'd rather not say which brand-its hardly conclusive proof of an issue.

And generally, seals dont wear, they harden and shrink. Lubrication doesnt help, per se, its a chemical thing.

Lol, "Errr" yourself. Without any specifics thats just hearsay!

Seals "wearing vs shrinking"... Not sure what you consider wear , I consider it a reduction in performance over time/use.. which in this case is evidenced by shrinkage. The Leak Stop you are adding has a seal "plumper" additive which (in theory) refreshes seals. Some "fuel additives" have this too.

To your question on do "fuel additives" cause the seal shrinkage is utterly impossible to answer as there are thousands of additives, with different formulas and intended results. Some of them would have seal plumper components in them too making seal wear (shrinkage if you must) unlikely. The regular over the counter (ie STP, Lucas etc) type Injector cleaner appears to be a petroleum distillate derived product, Dipetane looks (physically) entirely different and has a viscosity and colour closer to Olive Oil. That is not to say its better or worse, but it appears to be different anyhow.

Raiser

I'm not inclined to say too much because I will readily admit have no real notion or clue and may well be shown up.....

But I've always viewed the STP bracket of fuel additive as a "cleaner" and have heard accounts and warnings against their use of deposits being dislodged and clogging injectors etc. Makes perfect sense to me that this should occur and also that perishable materials such as seals could suffer from any detergent type (loose term) exposure.

Dipetane to me is in a totally different category, as Matt has pointed out it is a viscous, oily liquid and I wouldn't really relate the two categories under the very general term of fuel additives and then start to presume or conclude that their net gains, effects or unwanted side effects are going to be in any way linked or similar.

cwbiii

It appears this thread has been quiet lately... I recently bought a diesel car (2009 BMW 335d) and am considering using dipetane to increase the mileage. I've put in an inquiry to BMW to make sure it won't void my warranty before I do. If this works out I will do a very careful test and publish the results here... don't expect quick results as I run multiple tanks of fuel per test and I will run several with and several without going back and forth to null out temperature variations as much as possible. Typical test will be 3 tanks of fuel (approx 1200 miles) per test, with a burn out tank in between to clean out the residual dipetane. I keep meticulous records and will be able to tell if this stuff is snake oil or not.
I test it over my usual driving (~400 miles per week)
mixed highway/rural.
I averaged 19.2mpg(US) in my 1997 740i over 151k miles. 19.8mpg(US) in 43k miles with my 2006 750li.
(I got sick of waiting for a diesel 7 to be offered here in the US so I bought the 3 instead...)
I smooth my usual data with a 5 tank average...(~2k miles). I keep track of:
1) odometer reading
2) fuel
3) fuel cost
4) Computer mpg
5) Average speed for a tankful

I reset the trip computer, average speed and computer mpg every time I refill the tank. Typically the computer is off from the actual mpg... around 2 mpg normally, more if you try to drive carefully. It is consistently higher than actual. It appears to lie to you the way you want it to when you drive carefully when in fact the driving does not make as much difference as it appears.

I believe in accuracy and careful checking...
I will publish the results after each 3 tank test.
I will also do a conversion to km/l.

Chuck

Technoprisoner

just a few things to point out dipetane is designed to stabalise the fuel molecule so it burns more efficantly. o yes this is suppose to be used on a regular basis...as soon as you go back to ordinary fuel you lose the benefits. The guy that invented this stuff explained that over time it will dispearse of carbon in the engine but that this is designed so that you dont get carbon build up in the first place

it is also available in 25 liter bottles from what i remember as he wanted me to try sell it to people to put in there home heating systems

i seen somebody mention e5 and e85. cars need to burn more of these fuels to get the same bang as they dont burn in the same way. If you want your car to run on e85 it will require bigger injectors as well as a remap

andyseadog

not a dipetane fan at all. :pac:

Esel

cwbiii wrote: »

It appears this thread has been quiet lately... I recently bought a diesel car (2009 BMW 335d) and am considering using dipetane to increase the mileage. I've put in an inquiry to BMW to make sure it won't void my warranty before I do. If this works out I will do a very careful test and publish the results here... don't expect quick results as I run multiple tanks of fuel per test and I will run several with and several without going back and forth to null out temperature variations as much as possible. Typical test will be 3 tanks of fuel (approx 1200 miles) per test, with a burn out tank in between to clean out the residual dipetane. I keep meticulous records and will be able to tell if this stuff is snake oil or not.
I test it over my usual driving (~400 miles per week)
mixed highway/rural.
I averaged 19.2mpg(US) in my 1997 740i over 151k miles. 19.8mpg(US) in 43k miles with my 2006 750li.
(I got sick of waiting for a diesel 7 to be offered here in the US so I bought the 3 instead...)
I smooth my usual data with a 5 tank average...(~2k miles). I keep track of:
1) odometer reading
2) fuel
3) fuel cost
4) Computer mpg
5) Average speed for a tankful

I reset the trip computer, average speed and computer mpg every time I refill the tank. Typically the computer is off from the actual mpg... around 2 mpg normally, more if you try to drive carefully. It is consistently higher than actual. It appears to lie to you the way you want it to when you drive carefully when in fact the driving does not make as much difference as it appears.

I believe in accuracy and careful checking...
I will publish the results after each 3 tank test.
I will also do a conversion to km/l.

Chuck

Welcome, Chuck!

You sound like a meticulous guy, so I'm sure you won't mind the following advice/comments.

Over here, we use the Imperial gallon, which is different from the US one. So, US mpg figures differ from Imperial ones. Google the difference for your calculations.

Also, when measuring consumption in litres/kilometres, the standard figure to quote is litres per 100 kilometres (e.g 5.7L/100). This is a Euorpean standard, to which we are (very slowly) getting accustomed.

cwbiii

I've been working on European cars for a long time and was familiar with the imperial gallon... Used it a few times when traveling in Canada. Now Canada sells it by the liter.
I was not familiar with the other metric of L/100km.
I can include that easily for comparison, thanks.

I've owned 3 MG's, a Jaguar, 2 Renault's, a Peugeot, 3 Volvo's, 3 Fiat's and 5 BMW's over the years. Since one of my specialties was multiple carburetor tuning when I was younger I had my head under the hood of a few more European cars as well. Damn few carburetor's today... mostly on motorcycles and small equipment
where fuel injection is too costly.

I was trying to get a "trial size" (1gal) instead of the
5 gal size they normally have, but they say they guarantee results so they do not sell trial sizes.

Looks like I will be buying 5 gal for my trial...($150)
at 200:1 that is 1000 gal of fuel/33kmiles in my BMW if their 10% increase proves out.
This means my cost of fuel is $3.40 + 0.15 = $3.55 per US gal. (currently)
Imp gal = 4.55 L
US gal = 3.79 L

so my usual metric of mpg vs kpl vs lp100k

30mpg = 12.74 k/l = 7.85 l/100k

Thanks again...

Chuck

Topdeck

i had a carina e a few years ago .it kept failing the nct on emisions even after putting brand new cat and lambda sensor into it.i was about to give up .i asked the tester what else could i do to bring down the emisions. he said put diptane in the tank and drive the car hard .i did and it passed. happy days.

rotinaj

Manged to get a Megane coupes low emmissons down from .78 to .41 using Dipetane. Didnt notice any difference in mpg though

nightster1

Raiser wrote: »

Well I did search on this stuff before posting and there was nothing too recent and when it did crop up on a few much older threads there was disappointingly no real consensus either way.....

I picked up a bottle last week, €10 for 1 Litre which they say will treat 200 Litres of fuel, although I just blindly followed the Sellers instructions and tipped half a bottle into my 65 Litre tank without actually reading it, making it 1:130 rather than the suggested 1:200 ratio!

Half a tank later I'm definitely very interested as I do seem to have significantly better economy since of about 15% in the right direction - Bearing in mind that I was conscious of having relatively poor economy beforehand.

So perhaps if you do have economy or emissions trouble then its worth looking into and if you have no particular issues it might well just seem to be another gimmick?

- I have to mention that I've noticed an occasional exhaust type smell in the car that seemed to start at about the same time in case anyone has noticed similar? Logic tells me they are unrelated -but said I'd throw it in there....

So what do ye folk think? Snake oil or magic potion ???

I use it all the time in my bmw3.0D. My mechanic said use it every third fill. The amount of dirty diesel out there wrecks injectors. I blew 3 injectors in the last 100K miles due to contaminated diesel. Dipethane helps keeps them clean.No prob since I started to use it. Less smoke & marginally better MPG