Resident in the South but driving a Northern registered car (which you don't own)

humbert

I have been told by a customs officer that it is illegal to drive a Northern registered car if you are resident in the South, even if you are otherwise legally allowed to drive the car and the registered owner of the car is resident in the North. He was very polite and explained that by driving it I was legally in possession of it.

On one hand I believe him as he seemed professional, sincere, and willing to cite the relevant act (sorry I forget which) but on the other hand it would mean that if I were to rent a car in the North and cross the border I would be breaking the law, which seems incredible.

It's purely a request for clarification as it would essentially rule out me borrowing the parents car if I am in the area.

ldxo15wus6fpgm

I was looking this up myself today as was thinking of getting a relative in UK to buy a car and leave it at my house indefinitely, keys and all :P unfortunately for us, if the car is owned by someone who is not resident in Ireland, they can only avoid paying VRT for 12 months (except on application to Revenue for an extended exemption) and during this time nobody who is normally resident in the state may drive the vehicle under any circumstances.

If caught driving it you're probably looking at a hefty fine and/or 6 months holidays!

As for the rental cars thing I believe there are exceptions for short stays.

studdlymurphy

I work for a company in the north and have use of a company car that sometimes comes home with me, I have been doing this for years and never knew it was illegal. Does this car that is owned by the company have to have VRT paid even though it is owned by the company in the north? Seems a bit far fetched.

3DataModem

No Irish resident can drive a foreign registered car they don't own.

seamus

3DataModem wrote: »

No Irish resident can drive a foreign registered car they don't own.

Correct.

The law requires that any vehicle driven by an Irish resident must have been registered in the south and have its VRT paid on it. There are one or two tiny exceptions;
- a grace period of I think 48 hours between importing the car and registering
- Immigrants bringing a vehicle with them have a certain amount of grace, I think it's 6 or 12 months, provided that the vehicle is VRT exempt.

And one or two others.

But in general, for people who are normally resident in Ireland, you cannot drive a foreign registered car in Ireland, end of.

Afaik there is no exemption for cars rented in the North. If an ROI resident wishes to drive across the borders, they must use their own vehicle or an ROI-registered rental.

It seems like a bit of a crazy rule, but it does simplify the VRT issue by removing the "it's not my car" excuse. There are no good reasons why an ROI would resident would need to drive a foreign vehicle in the state.

The J Stands for Jay

seamus wrote: »

There are no good reasons why an ROI would resident would need to drive a foreign vehicle in the state.

Person living in Muff. Works a few miles down the road in Culmore (accross the border) driving a van. One day some roads are closed. Only way to her the van back to base is to cross the border. Suddenly, there's a yellow reg being driven by an Irish resident in Ireland and the law is broken.

Lazy lawmaking to help an unpopular tax.

reprazant

McGaggs wrote: »

Person living in Muff. Works a few miles down the road in Culmore (accross the border) driving a van. One day some roads are closed. Only way to her the van back to base is to cross the border. Suddenly, there's a yellow reg being driven by an Irish resident in Ireland and the law is broken.

Lazy lawmaking to help an unpopular tax.

It is not lazy at all. It is to stop people buying cars on the cheap abroad and shipping them over without paying the relevant taxes, something which would be far more common than your entirely example which would be ignored anyway since the driver is not intentionally trying to defraud the state.

fjon

3DataModem wrote: »

No Irish resident can drive a foreign registered car they don't own.

I presume the above sentence should have "in Ireland" at the end?
Hmm, so I drive my dad's car every now and then in Italy. My understanding is that over there the car is insured, not the driver. Am I breaking the law there?

seamus

You're being a bit obtuse there fjon. It's an Irish forum discussing Irish law. "In Ireland" is implied. The law of course will differ in different jurisdictions.

Person living in Muff. Works a few miles down the road in Culmore (accross the border) driving a van. One day some roads are closed. Only way to her the van back to base is to cross the border. Suddenly, there's a yellow reg being driven by an Irish resident in Ireland and the law is broken.

Every road in NI is closed, there's no way of getting back to base without crossing the border?

In any case, the onus would be on the employer to ensure that ROI resident employees are driving ROI registered vehicles if there's a chance they may cross the border.

fjon

seamus wrote: »

You're being a bit obtuse there fjon. It's an Irish forum discussing Irish law. "In Ireland" is implied. The law of course will differ in different jurisdictions.

Sorry, didn't meant to be obtuse, just a genuine query!

Marcusm

One of the principal exemptions from this rule is for employees driving their employers' vehicles in the performance of their duties. The law isn't always coherent but it isn't always an ass either.

Focusing on the OP's situation, I can't see how this will be lawful for you. Your family presumably living the the North and it would be fine (subject to tax etc) for you to drive it there. However, irrespective of whether you or your parents drive it across the border it can't be hired or lent to you. I spend a lot of time in Ireland with UK reg'd cars (as I live in the UK). Occasionally, friends will drive them - especially if I fancy a drink. Provided I'm also in the car, I believe I have an argument to the effect that they are driving the car at my direction and under my supervision, meaning that I have not lent it or hired it to them. You may disagree with my interpretation but I have spent 20 years working with kinks in the tax system so I am comfortable with the risk I am running.

Another circumstance in which you can drive a foreign reg'd car here is if you've hired it there and driven it here.

Pro Hoc Vice

seamus wrote: »

You're being a bit obtuse there fjon. It's an Irish forum discussing Irish law. "In Ireland" is implied. The law of course will differ in different jurisdictions.

Every road in NI is closed, there's no way of getting back to base without crossing the border?

In any case, the onus would be on the employer to ensure that ROI resident employees are driving ROI registered vehicles if there's a chance they may cross the border.

As long as the car is mostly used outside the state an exemption can be applied for. http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html

Pro Hoc Vice

studdlymurphy wrote: »

I work for a company in the north and have use of a company car that sometimes comes home with me, I have been doing this for years and never knew it was illegal. Does this car that is owned by the company have to have VRT paid even though it is owned by the company in the north? Seems a bit far fetched.

Apply for an exemption http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html

Pro Hoc Vice

Marcusm wrote: »

One of the principal exemptions from this rule is for employees driving their employers' vehicles in the performance of their duties. The law isn't always coherent but it isn't always an ass either.

Focusing on the OP's situation, I can't see how this will be lawful for you. Your family presumably living the the North and it would be fine (subject to tax etc) for you to drive it there. However, irrespective of whether you or your parents drive it across the border it can't be hired or lent to you. I spend a lot of time in Ireland with UK reg'd cars (as I live in the UK). Occasionally, friends will drive them - especially if I fancy a drink. Provided I'm also in the car, I believe I have an argument to the effect that they are driving the car at my direction and under my supervision, meaning that I have not lent it or hired it to them. You may disagree with my interpretation but I have spent 20 years working with kinks in the tax system so I am comfortable with the risk I am running.

Another circumstance in which you can drive a foreign reg'd car here is if you've hired it there and driven it here.

If you are in the uk and have a few pints and your friend is going to drive the car under your supervision you may get done for drunk in charge. In any event I do not believe the UK have the same rule about residents driving non UK registered cars.

ardmacha

McGaggs wrote: »

Person living in Muff. Works a few miles down the road in Culmore (accross the border) driving a van. One day some roads are closed. Only way to her the van back to base is to cross the border. Suddenly, there's a yellow reg being driven by an Irish resident in Ireland and the law is broken.

.

This situation is not relevant. A person from Muff could go to Culmore each morning and drive a van back to Muff to do deliveries etc, this is not for their personal use and there are exemptions for this sort of thing.

As far as the OP is concerned the only situation in which he could drive the car is if he is doing on behalf of the owner, rather than for his own convenience. A bit like the drink driving example above.

humbert

Thank everyone. It's not a problem, just a minor inconvenience.

It does seem ridiculous that I couldn't drive a rented car across the border, especially since I assume a Northerner doing the opposite could, but ultimately it's no more ridiculous than the import tax (registration tax) it's there to protect.

Marcusm

infosys wrote: »

If you are in the uk and have a few pints and your friend is going to drive the car under your supervision you may get done for drunk in charge. In any event I do not believe the UK have the same rule about residents driving non UK registered cars.

You have misconstrued my point about supervision. The UK very much does have almost identical rules about residents driving non UK reg'd cars and motorcycles (quite a problem in London).