Is it a landlord's market out there?

awec

Not long ago, there appeared to be a tonne of empty apartments about, too many had been built and when the arse fell out of everything they were no longer as attractive as they were.

This was especially evident in areas like Sandyford, which has 3 or 4 relatively modern high capacity apartment complexes. If I am not mistaken, a number of these apartments, all of which could be considered relatively expensive have been given over to affordable housing in relatively recent years due to being unable to get tenants for them.

Has the process gone full circle now?

I ask, because an apartment came on the market today for rent, and we phoned up within 20 minutes of the advert appearing. Expecting to be the first ones to call, we are actually the second viewing that has been arranged. I was pretty shocked at how quick this was.

I am a little unsure of what to expect, given how quickly there were 2 viewings arranged (within 20 minutes of the ad going up) I wouldn't be surprised if this property ended up getting 15 or 20 requests for viewings.

Is the renting market strong enough at the moment in the Dublin area that letters can almost start a bidding war with potential tenants? Is this allowed?

If we see it and decide we like it and would take it, will the letting agent generally wait until all the viewings are over before making a decision?

Anyone who has let in South Dublin, how many viewings are you taking for your property these days?

I have never been in the situation of renting a property in Dublin where there is genuine interest from multiple people, so I am curious as to people's experience here and what I should expect to hear from the agent. Will they try and play us (someone else has said they will pay the advertised rent + 100, will you beat that kind of thing) ?

For what it's worth, given the location, price and look of these apartments we are 95% sure we will take it, our viewing is basically a confirmation of sorts to ensure that there is nothing wrong with it. I have to assume that anyone else viewing it will feel the same.

My assumption for my perceived demand increase (which admittedly could be way wide of the mark and I could be talking nonsense) is that people are too afraid to buy and so everyone wants to rent.

Pawwed Rig

There has been strong demand in city centre for well over a year now. When we were moving last July we viewed about 8 places and there would be 4-5 people viewing each while we were there. Some would be there with deposits on the day ready to take.
There is definitely upward pressure on prices too.

awec

Yea, I think we'll just have to go view with our deposit in hand and hope that the people viewing before us (we are second) don't give an answer and that the letting agent is willing to accept our offer without letting everyone who has expressed interest in viewing see it.

I am not sure how likely that second part is to happen!

Pawwed Rig

awec wrote: »

don't give an answer and that the letting agent is willing to accept our offer without letting everyone who has expressed interest in viewing see it.

I am not sure how likely that second part is to happen!

Likely enough actually. Agents want to offload the place a quickly as possible. Having said that they do have some standards in that they often need to manage the tenancy so won't deal with people who they think will be troublesome.

I was left standing outside an apartment in Harolds Cross where the agent never turned up. When I called to see how much longer they would be I was told the apartment had been let earlier and 'he thought' that someone had called me to cancel.:mad:

Don't forget your references

hardCopy

Open viewings seem to be par for the course now, no option to negotiate rent or play two landlords off against each other as half the other viewers have cash with them. We had trouble finding anything decent in January this year.

We also found it very difficult to get evening viewings which makes it very hard to see places when you're working.

We eventually got lucky with a place that was probably a little overpriced, no other viewers and had been listed a while so the landlord came down on price. That was looking for a two-bed apartment in D7/D15.

The previous year we had a nightmare looking for a 3-bed house in D1/D3/D5. We were months trying to even get a viewing, everything was gone within hours of listing, renters weren't even viewing before putting deposits down. We eventually got a 4 bed with no parking and poor insulation.

awec

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Likely enough actually. Agents want to offload the place a quickly as possible. Having said that they do have some standards in that they often need to manage the tenancy so won't deal with people who they think will be troublesome.

I was left standing outside an apartment in Harolds Cross where the agent never turned up. When I called to see how much longer they would be I was told the apartment had been let earlier and 'he thought' that someone had called me to cancel.:mad:

Don't forget your references

If I brought contact details for my current landlord I wonder would that suffice for a reference, or do they usually need a written one?

An awful lot of stress these days renting! :pac:

Given that we were given an explicit time to view (we are 9:30, the people before us are 9am) then I hope it means that it's not an open viewing, but will just be the two of us.

Pawwed Rig

awec wrote: »

If I brought contact details for my current landlord I wonder would that suffice for a reference, or do they usually need a written one?

People usually show up with written references. But you should be ok if you drop them into the agent later on. You will need something on paper.

The agent will most likely show it to whoever requests. 30 mins viewing sounds like a long time so I would be surprised if there was noone else looking in between. The agent will then (should) check the references of the potential tenant and after that it is an arbitrary decision.
Agree, way too stressful for my liking

awec

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

People usually show up with written references. But you should be ok if you drop them into the agent later on. You will need something on paper.

The agent will most likely show it to whoever requests. 30 mins viewing sounds like a long time so I would be surprised if there was noone else looking in between. The agent will then (should) check the references of the potential tenant and after that it is an arbitrary decision.
Agree, way too stressful for my liking

Maybe the first one isn't at 9am, could be 9:15. All I know is we are at 9:30 and were told we're the second viewing of the day.

I guess I'll have to put my poshest accent on and all. :pac:

If we said that we would be willing to pay 50 euro on top of the advertised rent, would that be frowned upon?

It's listed at 1200, but we'd happily pay 1250 for it, I guess if we say we are taking it we could point this out.

syklops

There is a shortage of quality on the letting market. Head on over to the Funny houses for let thread on After Hours for some examples.

Incomplete adverts on Daft suggests an unprofessional or disorganised landlord and so are best avoided. As soon as a quality property gets uploaded to daft, and it ticks all the boxes, interest can also be immediate, so you must act fast. Serious, experienced renters will have alerts set up so when a property which matches their criteria goes live, they can call with in minutes.

syklops

awec wrote: »

If we said that we would be willing to pay 50 euro on top of the advertised rent, would that be frowned upon?

It's listed at 1200, but we'd happily pay 1250 for it, I guess if we say we are taking it we could point this out.

Would you offering to pay more money than asked for be frowned upon? Not by the person getting the extra money.

Bring your deposit with you, but I wouldn't be offering more. All that will achieve is that agent thinking they can up rents, which we really don't need right now.

Chin_Up

I completely agree the rental market has soared in Dublin and beyond. I know one couple who are currently in the nightmare situation of trying to find somewhere but the properties are either let by the time they view. People are having trouble getting mortgages so demand for rent goes up.

awec

Yea. We have about 3 weeks to find somewhere, and decent places don't seem to come available that often! I'm always wary of the ones that have been listed for a while.

Victor

awec wrote: »

I ask, because an apartment came on the market today for rent, and we phoned up within 20 minutes of the advert appearing. Expecting to be the first ones to call, we are actually the second viewing that has been arranged. I was pretty shocked at how quick this was.

You can subscribe to alerts on new ad.s

Or it could have been a bumped ad.

Or the could be making up the other party.

Chin_Up

also try and stick with the big auctioneers/estate agents as they tend to weed out any grey areas/bad rentals etc

gaius c

Is it a landlord's market out there?

Right now, yes it is.

But is it sustainable? I don't think so as the arrears problem is blocking up the entire market, both sales and rental.

Pawwed Rig

awec wrote: »

If we said that we would be willing to pay 50 euro on top of the advertised rent, would that be frowned upon?

It's listed at 1200, but we'd happily pay 1250 for it, I guess if we say we are taking it we could point this out.

If I was the agent in this case I think some red flags would be waving and would scrutinise you more than I might other tenants. I don't think it would sway the decision in your favour though as I would still go for the guys I thought were most reliable. But I have had bad experiences so am probably overly paranoid now.

gaius c wrote: »

Right now, yes it is.

But is it sustainable? I don't think so as the arrears problem is blocking up the entire market, both sales and rental.

Could you expand on that? I am not sure I understand your point.

awec

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If I was the agent in this case I think some red flags would be waving and would scrutinise you more than I might other tenants. I don't think it would sway the decision in your favour though as I would still go for the guys I thought were most reliable. But I have had bad experiences so am probably overly paranoid now.

Yea I was thinking this as well, I can see how it could go both ways.

gaius c

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If I was the agent in this case I think some red flags would be waving and would scrutinise you more than I might other tenants. I don't think it would sway the decision in your favour though as I would still go for the guys I thought were most reliable. But I have had bad experiences so am probably overly paranoid now.



Could you expand on that? I am not sure I understand your point.

Discussed a fair bit on other threads. Not going into it here.

Ray Palmer

awec wrote: »

This was especially evident in areas like Sandyford, which has 3 or 4 relatively modern high capacity apartment complexes. If I am not mistaken, a number of these apartments, all of which could be considered relatively expensive have been given over to affordable housing in relatively recent years due to being unable to get tenants for them.


.

I don't think actually happened as you described. It sounds like you are mixing up the requirement for affordable housing that has to be provided by a developer.

Anyway yes finding a rental place in the highest density area with the best employment prospect is hard. It is actually likely to get worse not better. While there are a lot of people holding out for what they expect to happen when repossessions start in earnest they forget that Dublin will have less repossessions than the rest of the country. This is because the house prices in Dublin are higher,unemployment is less and higher salaries in Dublin. Like the artificial floor belief on RA has been proven not to be the case in Dublin as easily shown by RA increasing in Dublin.

awec

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I don't think actually happened as you described. It sounds like you are mixing up the requirement for affordable housing that has to be provided by a developer.

Anyway yes finding a rental place in the highest density area with the best employment prospect is hard. It is actually likely to get worse not better. While there are a lot of people holding out for what they expect to happen when repossessions start in earnest they forget that Dublin will have less repossessions than the rest of the country. This is because the house prices in Dublin are higher,unemployment is less and higher salaries in Dublin. Like the artificial floor belief on RA has been proven not to be the case in Dublin as easily shown by RA increasing in Dublin.

I wasn't sure how it had happened, but that makes sense actually!

Either way, we have gone from excess supply to excess demand now.

Bluegrass1

This thread started a year ago. Interesting to see how things are playing out.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79006148

StillWaters

Bluegrass1 wrote: »

This thread started a year ago. Interesting to see how things are playing out.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79006148

QUOTE=StillWaters;79013593]I agree, but I think 'rocket' is an overstatement, I can't see rents rising more that 5-6% in the major urban centres, and holding firm elsewhere.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that link, I was spot on the money :cool:

My prediction for the next 12 months, more rises, probably marginally higher. I cant see any intervention to increase supply.

awec

They are actually finishing some of the unfinished apartments in Sandyford (the ones that lay unfinished for years opposite the beacon and edges). I am not sure of the capacity, but I doubt it will make much of a dent in the demand.

Ray Palmer

StillWaters wrote: »

QUOTE=StillWaters;79013593]I agree, but I think 'rocket' is an overstatement, I can't see rents rising more that 5-6% in the major urban centres, and holding firm elsewhere.

Thanks for that link, I was spot on the money :cool:

My prediction for the next 12 months, more rises, probably marginally higher. I cant see any intervention to increase supply.

Looks like I was spot on about RA too. Wonder if the posters who laughted at me will come back and say they were wrong‽ RA has gone up and the reason was tenants couldn't find places and rent went up too. RA was not an artificial floor in Dublin. People still claim it is and was ignoring reality

Pawwed Rig

awec wrote: »

Yea. We have about 3 weeks to find somewhere, and decent places don't seem to come available that often! I'm always wary of the ones that have been listed for a while.

Any joy?

syklops

Ray Palmer wrote: »

RA was not an artificial floor in Dublin. People still claim it is and was ignoring reality

What makes you say RA was not an artificial floor? Just curious.

awec

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Any joy?

Yep, we got the one we wanted in the end. First time ever doing an open viewing for a rental property and to be honest I really didn't like it.

Ray Palmer

syklops wrote: »

What makes you say RA was not an artificial floor? Just curious.

Rents went up not down when it was cut. RA has now been put up to allow RA tenants to rent in Dublin. What makes you still think it is an artificial floor?

I can't see how anybody can still claim it was a artificial floor in Dublin.

Pawwed Rig

awec wrote: »

Yep, we got the one we wanted in the end. First time ever doing an open viewing for a rental property and to be honest I really didn't like it.

I know what you mean, it makes the whole process alot more difficult as you need to wait on decisions by others. We were lucky in that the apartment we got in D2 was already taken by someone but they pulled out at the last minute leaving the landlord in a bit of a bind as she had already refused all the other viewers. As she wasn't an agent that didn't live locally I think she was just happy to get rid of it the night we viewed and we were offered it on the spot.
Congrats anyway. One less thing to worry about. Hope you didn't have to make bids.

syklops

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Rents went up not down when it was cut. RA has now been put up to allow RA tenants to rent in Dublin. What makes you still think it is an artificial floor?

I can't see how anybody can still claim it was a artificial floor in Dublin.

I don't know. Im looking for opinions from both sides, but as a professional, I am competing for the same rental properties as people on Rental Allowance. As I've said before, there is a real lack of quality out there, which is why there is a race to get the good properties when they get released onto the market.

It easy to feel embittered towards those on social welfare, when they get a nicer place to that of a working professional, which is being subsidised by the state.

I'm not on either side of the fence RA wise, and I'm just back after being away for about 4 years, so maybe I missed the RA going down, rents going up period.

gaius c

awec wrote: »

Yep, we got the one we wanted in the end. First time ever doing an open viewing for a rental property and to be honest I really didn't like it.

See it as practice for when you are viewing places to buy.