Cymru Lions v Wallabies, 3rd Test Match Thread, Sat July 6, 1100am

Mr.Nice Guy

I read a few Welsh posts on The Guardian and elsewhere. I have to laugh at the Welsh fans saying Gatland's decision to drop BOD was vindicated. You'd swear Davies was MOTM. Just goes to show the ends justify the means in the eyes of most sports fans. I still think BOD should have been involved.

I was pleased the Lions won despite all the gloating. I thought the Irish lads contributed brilliantly. I think Murray might be the most unappeciated player of the squad and felt he deserved to start the game today.

A lot of talk about the Welsh but in the long run this might prove a bigger positive for Irish rugby. If BOD was questioning whether another year was the right call I'm sure he's got absolutely no doubts now. I expect he will be very hungry to prove a point to the doubters. I just hope his body holds together.

Overall I would say it was a fun tour which had a dark cloud placed over it, but which had a rainbow waiting at the end.*

* Forgive the cheesiness of this statement. Been exposed to too much of the Sky coverage.

Artful_Badger

niallon wrote: »

Not entirely sure because he just tweeted the headlines and didn't comment himself. Came across bad either way

Doesn't look bad to me, just highlighting the fact it was a widely held view that the Aussies were favourite to win. Might seem odd out of context but his stream or feed or whatever ya call it is littered with the abuse he's getting. Which imo is bang out of order, same idiots who send abuse to refs after games I'd imagine.

phog

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I read a few Welsh posts on The Guardian and elsewhere. I have to laugh at the Welsh fans saying Gatland's decision to drop BOD was vindicated. You'd swear Davies was MOTM. Just goes to show the ends justify the means in the eyes of most sports fans. I still think BOD should have been involved.

I was pleased the Lions won despite all the gloating. I thought the Irish lads contributed brilliantly. I think Murray might be the most unappeciated player of the squad and felt he deserved to start the game today.

A lot of talk about the Welsh but in the long run this might prove a bigger positive for Irish rugby. If BOD was questioning whether another year was the right call I'm sure he's got absolutely no doubts now. I expect he will be very hungry to prove a point to the doubters. I just hope his body holds together.

Overall I would say it was a fun tour which had a dark cloud placed over it, but which had a rainbow waiting at the end.*

* Forgive the cheesiness of this statement. Been exposed to too much of the Sky coverage.

My guess is had we lost but Davies had a MOTM performance we'd have folk here claiming it was all Gatland 's fault for dropping O'Driscoll.

Tox56

phog wrote: »

My guess is had we lost but Davies had a MOTM performance we'd have folk here claiming it was all Gatland 's fault for dropping O'Driscoll.

So you completely ignored his argument and created a totally hypothetical situation to make a statement with absolutely no supporting evidence??

Try this hypothetical; If Maitland had started instead of North and we had still won would it automatically have made it the right decision?

CastingCouch

First off, any link to extended highlights?

Secondly....was distraught for BOD. Amazing defence but obviously not as good as he was years ago.

Wales are the best team so you'd think most players would come from there.

No one man has a right to be on the team. The team is greater than any player.

BOD is still a lions test series winner.

No one seems to feel as bad for O' Connell, even though he missed out through injury.

Chabals Beard

A word for Murray lads, that man proved a whole lot of doubters wrong this year, especially on this tour.

Hagz

Yeh lads. A bit of acknowledgement for they guy would be nice!

Tombo2001

T L wrote: »

Can Barcelona win without playing Messi? Yes, they can. Does that mean that if Messi is dropped out of the blue, but Barca win the next match, that the decision was correct? No, it doesn't.

.

Great as he is, BOD is no Messi.

Its clear that Gatland is completely vindicated. Not for any one selection, but for the team selection, of which the omission of O'Driscoll was one component. In retrospect, the whole furore has been a bit embarassing for this nation IMHO. That somehow the omission was an affront to the nation when the guy was genuinely just trying to pick his best team - which he patently did, going on the three test results.

phog

Tox56 wrote: »

So you completely ignored his argument and created a totally hypothetical situation to make a statement with absolutely no supporting evidence??

Try this hypothetical; If Maitland had started instead of North and we had still won would it automatically have made it the right decision?

My guess = hypothetical.

I'm around here long enough to know the preciousness of some posters and their posts.

Leslie91

Gatland deserves the credit for deciding that playing an 8/9 man game will be good enough to beat this Aussie team hence the keeping the ball in the scrum waiting for penos.

And I guess playing or not playing BOD makes little diff when the above is the case. Mega mixed feelings at the end of it all. Can't seem to get myself up to support a team full of so many non-Irish players. Was amazed as was Jonny was when he was subbed, I wonder was that Daddy Farrell making that call?

Conor Murray had a great tour as did SOB so they will benefit from it for us in the long run.

DeanDwl

Anybody think the result might have been different if it was the Eire Lions v Wallabies?

Pudsy33

DeanDwl wrote: »

Anybody think the result might have been different if it was the Eire Lions v Wallabies?

Yeah, 5 vs 15 doesnt seem fair tbh.

leakyboots

Chabals Beard wrote: »

A word for Murray lads, that man proved a whole lot of doubters wrong this year, especially on this tour.

Class act, been saying so since the start when some posters here (might have been the blue hue in their eyes, much like Houdini Heaslip appears to my ilk) seemed to relish in picking his game apart. The guy has it all and will only get better, to see a 20-odd year old play as unruffled as he does is amazing.

MOD EDIT: Banned

Christy42

Obviously just because Gatland won the series doesn't mean all his choices were correct. However he did win the series and is one of the better managers out there at the moment. At the end he decided the home nations play different styles of rugby and in the end he went with the style that nation with the most players present were used to and shored up a few slots that are a weakness in the side.

Gatland wanted the series win, saying that any decisions he made were because he hated the Irish or Welsh bias have no evidence to back it up. He picked what he thought was the best squad to win the game and you can disagree with his opinion but I don't see any evidence backing up an alterior motive. This site is also pretty biased (as are most discussions about the lions in the other countries) so possibly that should be kept in mind.

I don't see the point in getting so upset over individual decisions when he returned the prize and his team picking abilities were far and above better than Deans'.

leakyboots

Also, I look forward to seeing Healy, Zebo, Murray, Henderson, Henshaw and hopefully SOB on the next tour with a few others and showing the All Blacks what they've got

wonderfullife

Nearly all the ratings i have read (mostly UK papers etc) have said that Murray was brilliant today.

I know there are a few factors involved such as a tiring Wallabies but my God did he play well.

In fact all the Irish lads played pretty well. This may have been a predominantly Welsh side but you could argue the standout performers contained a mixture of nationalities :

Corbisiero (beast)
SOB (tank)
Sexton (very good apart from missed tackle)
Bowe (excellent)
AWJ & Halfpenny (excellent).


From 1-23 they all played well today but i'd certainly say that the contribution from the non welsh was as vital as that of the Welsh.

Hagz

leakyboots wrote: »

to see a 20-odd year old play as unruffled as he does is amazing.

24 I believe.

marienbad

Hagz wrote: »

24 I believe.

24 and one sixth actually.

Hagz

my bad.

marienbad

Hagz wrote: »

my bad.

very.

matthew8

wonderfullife wrote: »

Nearly all the ratings i have read (mostly UK papers etc) have said that Murray was brilliant today.

I know there are a few factors involved such as a tiring Wallabies but my God did he play well.

In fact all the Irish lads played pretty well. This may have been a predominantly Welsh side but you could argue the standout performers contained a mixture of nationalities :

Corbisiero (beast)
SOB (tank)
Sexton (very good apart from missed tackle)
Bowe (excellent)
AWJ & Halfpenny (excellent).


From 1-23 they all played well today but i'd certainly say that the contribution from the non welsh was as vital as that of the Welsh.

It was always going to be viewed like that. If they lost they'd be the Cymru Lions, if they won they'd be the B&I Lions.

Everybody did their bit but I have to say from the moment they got within 3 the Australian team looked absolutely crocked. AAC was horrendously slow chasing back Sexton's cross kick to North and they lost a lot of urgency.

wonderfullife

Another superb photo here guys.

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/767731/

Hagz

marienbad wrote: »

very.

very my bad? very my apologies.

duckysauce

Christy42 wrote: »

Obviously just because Gatland won the series doesn't mean all his choices were correct. However he did win the series and is one of the better managers out there at the moment. At the end he decided the home nations play different styles of rugby and in the end he went with the style that nation with the most players present were used to and shored up a few slots that are a weakness in the side.

Gatland wanted the series win, saying that any decisions he made were because he hated the Irish or Welsh bias have no evidence to back it up. He picked what he thought was the best squad to win the game and you can disagree with his opinion but I don't see any evidence backing up an alterior motive. This site is also pretty biased (as are most discussions about the lions in the other countries) so possibly that should be kept in mind.

I don't see the point in getting so upset over individual decisions when he returned the prize and his team picking abilities were far and above better than Deans'.

Far above Deans , if Beale wore the right boots, it would have been curtains .

DeanDwl

You know, the way I see it is like this. In Britain, the English like to see themselves as the top dog. And amongst the 'Celtic' countries, Ireland likes to see itself as the number one. So fxck the both of you - the Welsh won this series, and you can both fxck off.

MOD EDIT: Banned, trolling.

wonderfullife

CastingCouch wrote: »

First off, any link to extended highlights?

Secondly....was distraught for BOD. Amazing defence but obviously not as good as he was years ago.

Wales are the best team so you'd think most players would come from there.

No one man has a right to be on the team. The team is greater than any player.

BOD is still a lions test series winner.

No one seems to feel as bad for O' Connell, even though he missed out through injury.

cant get you highlights but i can give you this:

Game in FULL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xQFAZ0GwEc

CastingCouch

wonderfullife wrote: »

cant get you highlights but i can give you this:

Game in FULL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xQFAZ0GwEc

Thanks
I did see that on youtube and got a link to the highlights.

I'm sad that this tour is over.

BUT 2 years to the World Cup!

Pudsy33

DeanDwl wrote: »

You know, the way I see it is like this. In Britain, the English like to see themselves as the top dog. And amongst the 'Celtic' countries, Ireland likes to see itself as the number one. So fxck the both of you - the Welsh won this series, and you can both fxck off.

:pac: the irony here is delicious.

I'm sure you would have won it with biggar playing 10.

duckysauce

Pudsy33 wrote: »

:pac: the irony here is delicious.

I'm sure you would have won it with biggar playing 10.

Biggar na, You need a Jones at 10

sid waddell

Belated player ratings:
Leigh: Normally player ratings only go up to 10, but he goes up to 11. 11/10
Tommy: Great work for the first try, excellent throughout. 8/10
Jono: JD and coke for the pride of the Valleys tonight. 8/10
Doc: A pleasure to have the big man back. Thoroughly deserved try and a great moment for him after his injury trouble. 8/10
GG: No doubting who won the battle between himself and Israel, so much so that the Australian limped off. 9/10
Jonny: The conductor turned virtuoso. 9/10
Mikey: Back to his best, and produced it on the day that mattered, right from the off, as he so often does. 9/10
Corbs: The return of a rock. The foundation stone for the victory. 10/10
Dickie: The blond bombshell made a massive impact in his 50 minutes. 8/10
Adam: The joy on his face at the end said it all. Working class hero. 9/10
Alun Wyn: Cometh the hour, cometh the man. Led by example. 10/10
Geoff: His new daughter has a hero for a father. 8/10
Dan: Got down and dirty, doing much unseen work, as always. 8/10
Tank: A freeman on the land. Nobody tells him what to, nobody gets in his way, or else he'll mow you down. 9/10
Toby: Like Vanessa Williams, he saved his best for last. Faleure not in his vocabulary. 9/10

Subs:
Tom: Played with the force of two brothers in his body. 8/10
Justin: A caged animal let loose, at last, and the final piece in the jigsaw of the greatest Loins back row line-up in history. 8/10
Conor: A future Loins Test starter. Yet again showed his class. 8/10
Richie: A drop of the finest Scotch was just the tonic at the end of the series. 8/10
Owen: How he has grown during the series. Dad will be proud. 8/10
Manu: The fun-loving jester from Leicester joined the party in a big way. 8/10
Mako: A diamond that needs polishing, but a diamond. 8/10
Coley: Number two number three, but number one any time he's been called upon. 8/10

Management: Sir Warren Gatland, Andy Farrell, Graham Rowntree: Total vindication. And we can never thank them enough.

Man of the Series: Leigh Halfpenny. Mr. Golden Boot, Kicking God, but at his dazzling best when with ball in hand. A worthy heir to J.P.R.

Moment of the series: So many to choose from - Kurtley Beale's slip, the Kicking God's miss at the end of the second Test, that look of total respect between BOD and Gatty at the end of the match today, Shane Williams' return, Northie's finger to Genia, but I've gone for Northie's tonka-trucking of Israel Folau during the second Test. The Loins proved they were big enough to carry Australia's main man literally on their back, and they proved they were good enough to carry the expectations of the British Isles on their backs too. And how.

niallon

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Doesn't look bad to me, just highlighting the fact it was a widely held view that the Aussies were favourite to win. Might seem odd out of context but his stream or feed or whatever ya call it is littered with the abuse he's getting. Which imo is bang out of order, same idiots who send abuse to refs after games I'd imagine.

I'll be honest, a lot of my anti-Hook feelings at the moment are based on his calls that O'Driscoll shouldn't have gone on the tour. One man decides that, and it's not Hook.

I'd also echo the calls of others to ignore "BOD-gate" and show some respect for others who proved their worth.

Murray and O'Brien were absolutely fantastic, barely a fault to be found.

Roberts' try was incredibly deserved after an ultimately futile display against SA

Corbisiero and Jones, THAT is how a scrum should work, fair play lads.

Also Alan Wyn Jones, some reports have suggested already, but channelling POC much? Incredible let performance from a man who would be getting so much more praise were it not for his captaincy being held up against the removal of BOD so much

Klunk_NZ

Pudsy33 wrote: »

We don't want to see good traditional rugby though, I see that every week in the rabo. I want to see the best players in these isles play to their potential, not just play a recycled gameplan. Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted the lions won, but I doubt anyone in France, New Zealand or south Africa are particularly impressed with what they saw.

We would love your front row and half penny. You can keep the rest.....

Grandpa Hassan

Only posting for the first time now after 16 hours in various London pubs. Great atmosphere over brekkie, and a great day

Corbs!! That is all

He put the Aussies on the back foot in the first 15 and it all built from that

What a performance

the immortals

so, a gatland coached lions team put 41 points on the wallabies in front of 83,000 in sydney in a deciding test match, humble pie anyone?

Ed The Equalizer

the immortals wrote: »

so, a gatland coached lions team put 41 points on the wallabies in front of 83,000 in sydney in a deciding test match, humble pie anyone?

Nope, they're still not happy!

wonderfullife

the immortals wrote: »

so, a gatland coached lions team put 41 points on the wallabies in front of 83,000 in sydney in a deciding test match, humble pie anyone?

Is humble pie not meant to be for people who got something badly wrong and need to apologise??

Because in general the consensus in here over the past month has been the following:

1. SOB deserved to start
2. JD was rubbish at 12
3. Mako was a huge scrum weakness
4. Phillips selection was undeserved on form

lastly these

5. The non-selection of BOD was a mistake (or too big a gamble) for various reasons such as his : experience, current form in defence and current form in attack when the backline were given ball.

6. The Warrenball approach was not getting us far and we needed a different approach.


Todays result doesn't "vindicate" Gatlands selection today. The word vindication is a misnomer, an inappropriate choice. But if that particular word applies to anything it is that todays RESULT vindicated the selection of Gatland as coach. His remit was to win the Test Series. He won the Test Series. Vindication of the selection.

The 6 things i mentioned above all stand to this minute, after the Test result.

SOB proved his worth, was a warrior with 11 tackles in 40 mins alone and offered a carrying threat, which was lacked by Warbs. I'd go as far to say that he proves his non-selection in the 1st and 2nd Test was a huge mistake.

JD played well, his kicking was excellent. Ball in hand he didn't do that much and was outshone by 1/2p, North and Roberts but given the pressure he was under personally he did excellently and nobody can crib his performance.

Corbs coming in was huge. The famous Telfer speech where he says "scrummaging is the key" always holds true. Except this series we went in with a pack expected to dominate but underperformed expectations. This was largely down to injuries to Healy, Jenkins, Corbs. But to give fair credit, Grant scrummaged excellently all Tour and was non-selected for not offering enough in the Loose. Today proved that to be an error. Mako was the weakpoint. He is young and can improve in the scrum.

Phillips certainly improved on Test 1 but given Murrays sublime 30 minute performance, you'd still have to ask the question was the Phillips selection form based. I dont think it was. I think it was reputation as a big game player based.

I saw nothing in the game today that would tell me anything else than BOD would have had an absolute field day. JD played very very well but i saw nothing to indicate Brian wouldnt have. The game was tailor made for him. Big hits, big collisions and chiefly, lots and lots of space out wide with the Wallabies chasing the game.

Lastly , this gets back to the core point. Humble Pie. When does it need eating? I suppose those who predicted the Wallabies to win the Series 3-0 before the series began. They could take a piece. Or those who said we were going to be hammered today. They could take a piece too.

The rest of us dont need a piece. Because most of us didnt predict an Aussie landslide win or question the ability of the Lions to win today. We questioned the selection policy, which is part and parcel of supporting any side, whether it's Young Munster, Barnhall, Leinster, Connacht, Ireland, Wales, The Lions. That's part of being a fan.

This series win vindicates the decision to go with Gatland. It also speaks highly of Gatland in the way he went about his job with dignity this week. I will never agree with the BOD decision but he handled himself with grace and humility after the game. For that he deserves enormous credit. If there is any vindication necessary it is in the concept of the Lions. The "Sea of Red", the travelling army, i guarantee the selection debates were raging between them too and i also guarantee they had the time of their lives

That's what sport is supposed to be about. Uniting people. Having fun. Creating memories. The vindication here is that the Lions is not an anachronism of the amateur era, it is very relevant to the current day and remains one of the great sporting events.

Gatland deserves a big thank you and a pint for the series win. The players were immense and the fans immense too. Vindication is results-based thinking and not necessary. The win and a thank you is enough.

Kiith

Says it all really



Was a great match to watch, and would love to have been there. Sad for O'Driscoll and O'Connell especially, but they both definitely contributed to the series win. Great game all round, and fair play to everyone involved.

Roll on NZ

Roanmore

Conas wrote: »

2007 we couldn't claim the ball from a French restart in the dying minutes. Clerc cut inside Neil Best and John Hayes, and scored a try he should never have scored. When Best got done for drink driving in 2009 I said to myself "Karma is a bitch"

Ridiculous post.

First Up

wonderfullife wrote: »

Is humble pie not meant to be for people who got something badly wrong and need to apologise??

Yep, and there's plenty here that did and need to. Green tinted glasses are one thing; green blindfolds are something else.

The hysteria over BOD is irrational, emotional and pretty pathetic to be honest. He deserved his place in the squad and he made a useful stand in while the preferred center partnership was unavailable. He was busy in the first Test but did little in either of them that justifies the rants over his omission. If anything, Gatland's mistake was moving Davies to 12.

Four tries, a record margin and a first series win in 16 years. Yet we have people still whinging and performing cartwheels to justify their prejudice.

Have a second helping boys (you know who you are.)

JagerScout

First Up wrote: »

Yep, and there's plenty here that did and need to. Green tinted glasses are one thing; green blindfolds are something else.

The hysteria over BOD is irrational, emotional and pretty pathetic to be honest. He deserved his place in the squad and he made a useful stand in while the preferred center partnership was unavailable. He was busy in the first Test but did little in either of them that justifies the rants over his omission. If anything, Gatland's mistake was moving Davies to 12.

Four tries, a record margin and a first series win in 16 years. Yet we have people still whinging and performing cartwheels to justify their prejudice.

Have a second helping boys (you know who you are.)

And your calling other people pathetic :rolleyes:

Artful_Badger

Humble pie is for those who were shown to be wrong. And most people were not wrong, Gatland made a mistake not to pick BOD, that much was clear by the fact the centre partnership was irrelevant to the overall game plan.

seligehgit

This tour gives me great hope that Ireland can compete for the 6 nations next year with a fresh management set up in situ,Irish lads did us proud.Real pity Zebo,Kearney and Healy did not get more game time.Really excited about the potential of Eoin Madigan as an aside.Hopefully we can nurture two long term replacements for the greats that are O' Connell and O' Driscoll.
Hate those who knock the Lions tour as some kind of meaningless antiquated money making franchise that should be confined to the bin.Love the sense of unity it breathes amongst the 4 home nations,it's ties to a by gone era(amateur ethos) and rich sense of history.Tell the players it means nothing,highest honour they can achieve.
Opinions whither Leigh Halfpenny will get IRB player of the year,he was superb in the 6 nations too?

JagerScout

seligehgit wrote: »

This tour gives me great hope that Ireland can compete for the 6 nations next year with a fresh management set up in situ,Irish lads did us proud.Real pity Zebo,Kearney and Healy did not get more game time.Really excited about the potential of Eoin Madigan as an aside.Hopefully we can nurture two long term replacements for the greats that are O' Connell and O' Driscoll.
Hate those who knock the Lions tour as some kind of meaningless antiquated money making franchise that should be confined to the bin.Love the sense of unity it breathes amongst the 4 home nations,it's ties to a by gone era(amateur ethos) and rich sense of history.Tell the players it means nothing,highest honour they can achieve.
Opinions whither Leigh Halfpenny will get IRB player of the year,he was superb in the 6 nations too?

Eoin Madigan?

and bollix that.

First Up

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Humble pie is for those who were shown to be wrong. And most people were not wrong, Gatland made a mistake not to pick BOD, that much was clear by the fact the centre partnership was irrelevant to the overall game plan.

Yeah, only one of them scored, the other was involved in only two of the four tries. Hardly worth them togging out really.

Add some sour grapes to that pie of yours.

thomond2006

seligehgit wrote: »

Opinions whither Leigh Halfpenny will get IRB player of the year,he was superb in the 6 nations too?

If he has at least a solid autumn series then he'd be my favourite.

Artful_Badger

First Up wrote: »

Yeah, only one of them scored, the other was involved in only two of the four tries. Hardly worth them togging out really.

Add some sour grapes to that pie of yours.

Well in that case they won the game single handedly :rolleyes:

As a centre pairing they did nothing, absolutely nothing. It was the fact they played together before that Gatland used to justify dropping BOD (a far superior player and most experienced player in the entire Squad). Something that never came into it as we all knew wouldnt without intent on using the backline.

So you can go on about sour grapes and humble pie all you want but it doesnt change facts. Gatland was wrong to drop BOD.

First Up

Try not to look any sillier than you already do will you?

awec

The centre partnership had absolutely no bearing on the game whatsoever. None.

abff

Maybe it's time to close this thread. At this stage, all that's happening is people sniping at each other instead of commenting on the match. It was a comfortable victory in the end, primarily due to the dominance of the pack.

We'll never know what would have happened if BOD had played. It's possible the Lions would have won by an even bigger margin or maybe the result would have been closer. Who knows? I really wish we'd had the chance to find out, but we didn't. Time to move on.

JagerScout

"Four tries was a vindication of how well we’ve played overall on this tour"

Bollix Gatland