Cymru Lions v Wallabies, 3rd Test Match Thread, Sat July 6, 1100am

Teferi

Dropping BOD had absolutely no bearing on the game Rightwing. It was not a clever or ballsy move in the slightest and people need to stop thinking it was.

Buer

Teferi wrote: »

Dropping BOD had absolutely no bearing on the game Rightwing. It was not a clever or ballsy move in the slightest and people need to stop thinking it was.

It was ballsy. No doubting that. It wasn't clever though.

Teferi

Buer wrote: »

It was ballsy. No doubting that. It wasn't clever though.

I don't think it was ballsy in the way people are talking about it though - as though Gatland had some tricks up his sleeve.

phog

Teferi wrote: »

Dropping BOD had absolutely no bearing on the game Rightwing. It was not a clever or ballsy move in the slightest and people need to stop thinking it was.

Of course it was ballsy, however it may not have been clever.

It might have lead Australia to focus elsewhere than their biggest weakness - their scrum. If it did I seriously doubt it was the reason for dropping Brian.

Christy42

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Which is not a good indictment of Gatland as his coach, more or less the whole series heavily dependent on a loosehead prop

The Lions didn't need to settle for winning three tests with their scrummaging, they had a squad capable of actually playing rugby. But that would have required invention and risk, something not on the menu as far as Gatland was concerned

It was his 3rd choice loosehead to be fair. Gatland's main aim was winning the series and he did that. Playing flowing rugby against some of the world's best backs seems like a bad idea. People keep slagging of Gatland but there are few coaches at his level (there are a few but an entire list is hard to come up with). At the moment he is the only valid candidate for NZ, Lancaster and Schmidt have the chance to throw their name in the hat over the next 4 years, not many others really.

Yes these tactics would have lost us the series in NZ but he designed them with Australia in mind. He went with what he knew and really the nations play different styles of rugby making a gel with a good mix of nations a poor play as too many will be playing in an unfamiliar system. The lions will get destroyed by NZ in 4 years barring a rash of injuries for NZ or some insane talent coming forward. They are too good. The only player the lions had that would make a full strength NZ squad is O'Driscoll and even then Conrad Smith is only slightly worse and might be better. A couple would challenge for bench spots but not the starting team.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Christy42 wrote: »

It was his 3rd choice loosehead to be fair. Gatland's main aim was winning the series and he did that. Playing flowing rugby against some of the world's best backs seems like a bad idea. People keep slagging of Gatland but there are few coaches at his level (there are a few but an entire list is hard to come up with). At the moment he is the only valid candidate for NZ, Lancaster and Schmidt have the chance to throw their name in the hat over the next 4 years, not many others really.

Yes these tactics would have lost us the series in NZ but he designed them with Australia in mind. He went with what he knew and really the nations play different styles of rugby making a gel with a good mix of nations a poor play as too many will be playing in an unfamiliar system. The lions will get destroyed by NZ in 4 years barring a rash of injuries for NZ or some insane talent coming forward. They are too good. The only player the lions had that would make a full strength NZ squad is O'Driscoll and even then Conrad Smith is only slightly worse and might be better. A couple would challenge for bench spots but not the starting team.

Why? It seemed to work in the last 15 minutes of the third test, which was the only consistent ambition shown by the Lions in the test series

And surely holding onto the ball rather than leaving the Wallabies have it for the majority of the series would be a better tactic if neutralizing the Aussie backline was the concern ?(not that they did much with the vast amounts of ball they had, which is largely down to poor coaching and playing a 15 at 10)

Rightwing

Christy42 wrote: »

It was his 3rd choice loosehead to be fair. Gatland's main aim was winning the series and he did that. Playing flowing rugby against some of the world's best backs seems like a bad idea. People keep slagging of Gatland but there are few coaches at his level (there are a few but an entire list is hard to come up with). At the moment he is the only valid candidate for NZ, Lancaster and Schmidt have the chance to throw their name in the hat over the next 4 years, not many others really.

Yes these tactics would have lost us the series in NZ but he designed them with Australia in mind. He went with what he knew and really the nations play different styles of rugby making a gel with a good mix of nations a poor play as too many will be playing in an unfamiliar system. The lions will get destroyed by NZ in 4 years barring a rash of injuries for NZ or some insane talent coming forward. They are too good. The only player the lions had that would make a full strength NZ squad is O'Driscoll and even then Conrad Smith is only slightly worse and might be better. A couple would challenge for bench spots but not the starting team.

I couldn't agree with your 1st paragraph more. We'll see how Schmidt & Lancaster get on v Gatty in the 6Nations.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

I couldn't agree with your 1st paragraph more. We'll see how Schmidt & Lancaster get on v Gatty in the 6Nations.

And the outcome of those games will have no baring on who will manage a tour 4 years down the line

Declan Kidney was widely touted as a strong favorite after the 09 tour and look how that went

Christy42

I think he means over the next few years as presumably the last 6 nations matches before they pick the manager will have an effect.

Rightwing

Christy42 wrote: »

I think he means over the next few years as presumably the last 6 nations matches before they pick the manager will have an effect.

That's exactly it. Kidney was able for H cups, fell on the international sword. Let's see how Schmidt will to. We know Gatty has mastered both club and international level. Safe pair of hands imo.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Christy42 wrote: »

I think he means over the next few years as presumably the last 6 nations matches before they pick the manager will have an effect.

Well it seemed to imply the next six nations

In any case I hope to god Gatland isn't involved in the next tour, for my own enjoyment of the brand if nothing else

I'd rather the Lions had played like they did in 09 and lost again than what transpired down under for 2 and 3/4 tests

I really didn't enjoy the tour

danthefan

Christy42 wrote: »

Playing flowing rugby against some of the world's best backs seems like a bad idea.

This makes absolutely no sense.

danthefan

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Well it seemed to imply the next six nations

In any case I hope to god Gatland isn't involved in the next tour, for my own enjoyment of the brand if nothing else

I'd rather the Lions had played like they did in 09 and lost again than what transpired down under for 2 and 3/4 tests

I really didn't enjoy the tour

I couldn't wait for the tour but as it developed I found I wasn't nearly invested in it as I would have been compared to Ireland or Leinster.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

danthefan wrote: »

I couldn't wait for the tour but as it developed I found I wasn't nearly invested in it as I would have been compared to Ireland or Leinster.

Same here. I remember the 09 tour and I really, really wanted them to win.

But nothing about this tour came close and by the end I was merely happy for the Irish lads rather than the team.

Rightwing

danthefan wrote: »

I couldn't wait for the tour but as it developed I found I wasn't nearly invested in it as I would have been compared to Ireland or Leinster.

I think most are the same, I'd much prefer to see Munster win a big H cup match than the lions win a series, especially one with only a few Munster & Irish players involved.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

I think most are the same, I'd much prefer to see Munster win a big H cup match than the lions win a series, especially one with only a few Munster & Irish players involved.

He's highlighting the difference he felt between this tour and the last, not the Lions in general

It's very hard to invest in a team playing such turgid rugby, and such a conservative coach

Add to that how poor the Wallabies were (even though the still nearly won the series), the terrible Sky coverage and the poor quality of the test games in comparison to 09 and it's no surprise people didn't invest in the tour

danthefan

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

He's highlighting the difference he felt between this tour and the last, not the Lions in general

It's very hard to invest in a team playing such turgid rugby, and such a conservative coach

Add to that how poor the Wallabies were (even though the still nearly won the series), the terrible Sky coverage and the poor quality of the test games in comparison to 09 and it's no surprise people didn't invest in the tour

Absolutely, was gutted when the Lions lost in 2009.

Lelantos

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

He's highlighting the difference he felt between this tour and the last, not the Lions in general

It's very hard to invest in a team playing such turgid rugby, and such a conservative coach

Add to that how poor the Wallabies were (even though the still nearly won the series), the terrible Sky coverage and the poor quality of the test games in comparison to 09 and it's no surprise people didn't invest in the tour

The Lions is a nice sortee into enemy territory, and a win is always welcome. But it's a distant third behind club & international rugby for most imo

Conas

danthefan wrote: »

Absolutely, was gutted when the Lions lost in 2009.

The Lions loss in 2009 was self inflicted. Vickery was destroyed in the first test, and should have been taken off way sooner. O'Gara then threw away the second test.

The best the Lions could have hoped for in the 09 tour was a drawn series. They didn't deserve to win it.

danthefan

Conas wrote: »

The Lions loss in 2009 was self inflicted. Vickery was destroyed in the first test, and should have been taken off way sooner. O'Gara then threw away the second test.

The best the Lions could have hoped for in the 09 tour was a drawn series. They didn't deserve to win it.

That isn't really the point.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Lelantos wrote: »

The Lions is a nice sortee into enemy territory, and a win is always welcome. But it's a distant third behind club & international rugby for most imo

Ya I agree, my point was that it was easier to invest more in the 09 tour than this time around

twinytwo

Conas wrote: »

The Lions loss in 2009 was self inflicted. Vickery was destroyed in the first test, and should have been taken off way sooner. O'Gara then threw away the second test.

The best the Lions could have hoped for in the 09 tour was a drawn series. They didn't deserve to win it.

i suggest you watch the game, it was lost long before o'Gara gave away the peno.

Rightwing

Conas wrote: »

The Lions loss in 2009 was self inflicted. Vickery was destroyed in the first test, and should have been taken off way sooner. O'Gara then threw away the second test.

The best the Lions could have hoped for in the 09 tour was a drawn series. They didn't deserve to win it.

I agree, that series appears like it was very winnable. Only thing is, did the boks care for the 3rd test.

Conas

twinytwo wrote: »

i suggest you watch the game, it was lost long before o'Gara gave away the peno.

LONG LOST? :eek: It was a draw!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1B9-ha7TP0

Rightwing

Conas wrote: »

LONG LOST? :eek: It was a draw!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1B9-ha7TP0

Yep, that was my recollection of it too, a disastrous cameo from ROG.

Artful_Badger

Why was ROG on and where was he playing ? The Lions were absolutely decimated with injuries in that game and the try that snatched the win from them was a result of that. Thats what cost them not one penalty conceded while trying to get into a position to win the game.

Rightwing

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Why was ROG on and where was he playing ? The Lions were absolutely decimated with injuries in that game and the try that snatched the win from them was a result of that. Thats what cost them not one penalty conceded while trying to get into a position to win the game.

If memory serves me correctly, he was only on the field for the last 10-15 mins, and pressed the self destruct button.

Conas

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Why was ROG on and where was he playing ? The Lions were absolutely decimated with injuries in that game and the try that snatched the win from them was a result of that. Thats what cost them not one penalty conceded while trying to get into a position to win the game.

He replaced Jamie Roberts. Stephen Jones moved to centre I think, and ROG into 10.

Conas

Rightwing wrote: »

If memory serves me correctly, he was only on the field for the last 10-15 mins, and pressed the self destruct button.

This year against Scotland was by far the worst. As the top comment on You Tube reads:

"Absolutely outrageous kick. And then when clearing he misses touch by a country mile, creating their two best attacking opportunities in the entire match singlehandedly for them. Hate to see a legend of Irish rugby have his legacy tarnished like this..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6ytZ77KaFU

Rightwing

Conas wrote: »

This year against Scotland was by far the worst. As the top comment on You Tube reads:

"Absolutely outrageous kick. And then when clearing he misses touch by a country mile, creating their two best attacking opportunities in the entire match singlehandedly for them. Hate to see a legend of Irish rugby have his legacy tarnished like this..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6ytZ77KaFU

You are right. Players should know when to call it a day, or else the coach will have to make the hard decisions that look ugly to your average punter but are more than necessary.

astonaidan

Is there any special reason ROG is being talked about, hes retired lads, its getting a bit boring tbh

stpaddy99

astonaidan wrote: »

Is there any special reason ROG is being talked about, hes retired lads, its getting a bit boring tbh

look out here comes the thought police....if you are bored why are you joining this thread? hes only just retired, besides posters can tlak about what they like,

ConFurioso

stpaddy99 wrote: »

look out here comes the thought police....if you are bored why are you joining this thread? hes only just retired, besides posters can tlak about what they like,

Because it's about the 3rd Lions Test this year, not ROG's career?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

astonaidan wrote: »

Is there any special reason ROG is being talked about, hes retired lads, its getting a bit boring tbh

Pretty sad bashing ROG on this thread of all places

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

stpaddy99 wrote: »

look out here comes the thought police....if you are bored why are you joining this thread? hes only just retired, besides posters can tlak about what they like,

Now that ain't true!

.ak

Folks if you want to discuss ROG and his previous Lions exploits than take it to the Lions thread.

stpaddy99

heres another reminded of why world class Jonathon davies was picked and why he helped us hammer aussie....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyU0n87zaAA

hes done us with 3 superb tries the past 3 seasons, one of them in the world cup where he stitched up our 3 defenders....hes got 35 tries in 101 games for scarlets and 9 in 35 for wales....most of them big tries too....he is a demonically powerful defender and sets up loads of tries...Im a true rugby fan and see his brilliance regardless fo nationality

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

stpaddy99 wrote: »

heres another reminded of why world class Jonathon davies was picked and why he helped us hammer aussie....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyU0n87zaAA

hes done us with 3 superb tries the past 3 seasons, one of them in the world cup where he stitched up our 3 defenders....hes got 35 tries in 101 games for scarlets and 9 in 35 for wales....most of them big tries too....he is a demonically powerful defender and sets up loads of tries...Im a true rugby fan and see his brilliance regardless fo nationality

That post just oozes exaggeration,

Davies simply isn't world class, and it's nothing to do with him being played over BOD.

He's a decent defender, not sure what "demonically powerful" means but it's an exaggeration. There are far better defenders of the 13 channel, BOD being the prime example in the NH of a guy who's technically on another level in terms of defensive play. De Villiers, Conrad Smith all up their too

He's a very poor distributor, very good at short balls but anything over four or five feet and his accuracy disappears

He's not that fast either, doesn't have a great step.

I'm focusing on the negatives here, I do think Davies is a good player, not my kind of 13 but he's certainly not even in the top 10 13's in world rugby never mind world class

And I would have said all this before the Lions tour (and I did more or less if you want to check it up) before you go screaming bias

KJY

Unrelated to the whole selection thing, but the vest majority of that video (at club level anyway) shows him playing at 12

stpaddy99

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

That post just oozes exaggeration,

Davies simply isn't world class, and it's nothing to do with him being played over BOD.

He's a decent defender, not sure what "demonically powerful" means but it's an exaggeration. There are far better defenders of the 13 channel, BOD being the prime example in the NH of a guy who's technically on another level in terms of defensive play. De Villiers, Conrad Smith all up their too

He's a very poor distributor, very good at short balls but anything over four or five feet and his accuracy disappears

He's not that fast either, doesn't have a great step.

I'm focusing on the negatives here, I do think Davies is a good player, not my kind of 13 but he's certainly not even in the top 10 13's in world rugby never mind world class

And I would have said all this before the Lions tour (and I did more or less if you want to check it up) before you go screaming bias

youre just lying now....hes been in every game of the welsh side that hammered us in the world cup ,he scored the winning try by beating 3 defenders, he got 4 world cup tries and got wales to a semi final....in his first full welsh season....the second season he won grand slam, the third season won 6 nations again....then got selected for lions first choice ahead of odriscoll and tuilagi and won the series....now bad for 3 season in test rugby? hes scored 35 tries in 101 for scarlets who are a weak side up front and 9 in 35 for wales.....he is demonically powerful in defence as the videos show (if you bothered to watch them) if you cnat understand what that means, get a dictionary. youre opinion is irrelevant anyway as youre biased and you don't support the lions

.ak

stpaddy99 wrote: »

youre just lying now....hes been in every game of the welsh side that hammered us in the world cup ,he scored the winning try by beating 3 defenders, he got 4 world cup tries and got wales to a semi final....in his first full welsh season....the second season he won grand slam, the third season won 6 nations again....then got selected for lions first choice ahead of odriscoll and tuilagi and won the series....now bad for 3 season in test rugby? hes scored 35 tries in 101 for scarlets who are a weak side up front and 9 in 35 for wales.....he is demonically powerful in defence as the videos show (if you bothered to watch them) if you cnat understand what that means, get a dictionary. youre opinion is irrelevant anyway as youre biased and you don't support the lions

You're new here, but that's no excuse, read the charter and don't be a dick to other posters.

Swiwi.

stpaddy99 wrote: »

youre just lying now....hes been in every game of the welsh side that hammered us in the world cup ,he scored the winning try by beating 3 defenders, he got 4 world cup tries and got wales to a semi final....in his first full welsh season....the second season he won grand slam, the third season won 6 nations again....then got selected for lions first choice ahead of odriscoll and tuilagi and won the series....now bad for 3 season in test rugby? hes scored 35 tries in 101 for scarlets who are a weak side up front and 9 in 35 for wales.....he is demonically powerful in defence as the videos show (if you bothered to watch them) if you cnat understand what that means, get a dictionary. youre opinion is irrelevant anyway as youre biased and you don't support the lions

Dude, 23 posts and you're losing the run of yourself. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I don't always agree with UMSE, but he does know his rugby.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

stpaddy99 wrote: »

youre just lying now....hes been in every game of the welsh side that hammered us in the world cup ,he scored the winning try by beating 3 defenders, he got 4 world cup tries and got wales to a semi final....in his first full welsh season....the second season he won grand slam, the third season won 6 nations again....then got selected for lions first choice ahead of odriscoll and tuilagi and won the series....now bad for 3 season in test rugby? hes scored 35 tries in 101 for scarlets who are a weak side up front and 9 in 35 for wales.....he is demonically powerful in defence as the videos show (if you bothered to watch them) if you cnat understand what that means, get a dictionary. youre opinion is irrelevant anyway as youre biased and you don't support the lions

Ignoring the rest, I do support the Lions, but even if I didn't how would that make my view of Davies any less relevant?

stpaddy99

.ak wrote: »

You're new here, but that's no excuse, read the charter and don't be a dick to other posters.

so youre preaching to me about behaviour and charters and you name call me with verbal abuse? hypocrite

stpaddy99

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Ignoring the rest, I do support the Lions, but even if I didn't how would that make my view of Davies any less relevant?

it does because you've said umpteen times before the test match you wanted the lions to lose because they hadn't picked the team you wanted with BOD. that proves youre biased and unable to form an objective view. that's what loses your views all their credibility

stpaddy99

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Dude, 23 posts and you're losing the run of yourself. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I don't always agree with UMSE, but he does know his rugby.

I agree everyones entitled to their opinion, so Im just giving mine. even if it goes against the grain of some biased fans

.ak

stpaddy99 wrote: »

so youre preaching to me about behaviour and charters and you name call me with verbal abuse? hypocrite

'Don't be a dick' to other posters IS part of our charter, so is arguing with moderators. Consider this your last warning or you can take a week break to cool your heels.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

stpaddy99 wrote: »

it does because you've said umpteen times before the test match you wanted the lions to lose because they hadn't picked the team you wanted with BOD. that proves youre biased and unable to form an objective view. that's what loses your views all their credibility

sigghhhhh

I've posted about how average I think Davies is before they even left for Australia. I really couldn't be arsed finding the post but just but not every opinion is biased

In fact I actually said Davies played very well in the third test

Hagz

Hard to take anything you're saying seriously. Firstly, one of the "big hits" in the video, is actually being made by Dan Lydiate (now there's a demonic defender)...but anyway, that video just goes to prove that Davies is simply big powerful pacey runner who slots perfectly into Gatland's one dimensional style of play. An outside centre with hands like Davies simply can't be bracketed as one of the best. He has very substandard passing. Added to that, although he's got some pace, he's not actually that agile at all. In fact, the work he put in for Sexton's try against Australia was probably the closest thing you'll get to footwork when it comes to Davies. I'd actually rate Andrew Bishop as a better rugby player, it's just that Davies has more power.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

The constant thanking of those posts is gas enough